What is the Smallest .45 ACP Semi auto Pistol???


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ParChaser
April 16, 2007, 01:11 AM
Are the AMT .45 Back Up and the Firestar M-45 the smallest semiauto auto loaders?

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MICHAEL T
April 16, 2007, 01:16 AM
I belive the Colt Defender and the Kimber are the smallest. That AMT back up is fairly large and weights a ton. I know a Dealer that has 1 for 300 if interested. I had the star in 40 and it wasn't all that small either Also weighted a lot. I have a Colt Officer and a LTW Commander for carry today.

outerlimit
April 16, 2007, 01:57 AM
You might wanna check out the Detonics CombatMaster

http://www.detonicsusa.com/combatmaster.html

Black Snowman
April 16, 2007, 02:16 AM
Maybe not as small in some dimensions but very light and comfortable to both carry and shoot is the Glock 36. I just rented one at the range today and I'm going to pick one up as my new "little" CCW replacing my RAMI in 40 S&W. It's about the same weight, only slightly larger, and I can shoot it better. Plus, it has a slightly thinner grip and shoots a larger caliber.

I never could warm up to the chopped 1911s. To much re-engineering to make me feel comfortable with them. The 36 was designed from scratch to be a small 45 auto and the abused range rental I shot today ran great.

MPanova
April 16, 2007, 07:04 AM
Maybe not "the" smallest out of all the compact .45's but its the smallest 10+1 that I know of

http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=40&category=Pistol

Plink
April 16, 2007, 07:16 AM
I don't know what's the smallest, but I have bought a few small ones in the past such as the AMT .45 Backup and the Para Warthog. I can tell you one thing I learned. I can conceal a little more pistol than that, and a little more pistol is a LOT easier to shoot effectively. The AMT was a bellygun only, and the Warthog, aside from being the single most unreliable pistol I've ever owned, literally ate my hand alive when it managed to work. I moved up a tiny bit to an inexpensive Bersa Mini-Firestorm in .45 and have never looked back. The .45 ACP just doesn't seem to work that well in micro pistols.

markk
April 16, 2007, 07:45 AM
check out the new Kahr P45
personally I dont like it but not for any good reason
But it sure is small

Ala Dan
April 16, 2007, 08:17 AM
The Star PD was pretty darn small; but I imagine the Kahr of today would
be even smaller? :scrutiny: ;)

Arch
April 16, 2007, 08:39 AM
Can I say "Semmerling LM4". :D

But it's not an autoloader. I've never handled one, but I would like to see how fast it was to cycle the slide with your thumb after each shot.

The Semmerling XLM might take the prize, but good luck getting one.

jlh26oo
April 16, 2007, 08:42 AM
if you're a kahr guy.

Kahr PM45 will be a little slimmer in every dimension than the G36, and about 3oz lighter (but 5 vs 6 round and 3.14" vs 3.78" barrel).

I'll endorse the 36. Mines been great. IMO there's only so small you want to go w/a .45, or any pistol ftm before stretching the lower bounds of performance and reliability. I have a PM9, and would definitely not be interested in such a pistol chambered for .45.

The 36 comparatively is very shootable and accurate; and most importantly reliable. 20oz, 6+1, same sight radius as a 19/23 but a little slimmer. If you get one that works (mines been perfect but appernetnly some are not as fortunate :confused: ), it's an ideal carry .45. Definitely NOT carry alot shoot a little.

jeepmor
April 16, 2007, 09:00 AM
From the PT145 recommendation, segway to the PT745 which is a tad narrower with a single stack magazine. I own a PT145 and its been a wunderpistol thus far with well over 2500 rounds in a little over a year. Never an issue, it has been quite impressive.

On the smaller side, the PM45 should be impressive when it arrives, but a handful. My neighbor has a PM40 and it's a 5+1 or 6+1 depending on which magazine you want to use with it, it comes with two. Not sure what the 45 will offer, but these Kahr pistols are quite small and make the PT145 look a bit big.

The small 1911's are nice, but I've never personally shot one. I have read of a lot of issues with a 3" barrel on a 1911 when it comes to reliability, almost all of it here on THR.

orionengnr
April 16, 2007, 09:25 AM
I have read of a lot of issues with a 3" barrel on a 1911 when it comes to reliability, almost all of it here on THR.

Hmm...me too. Doesn't mean they didn't happen, but my experience has been different.

My alloy framed 1911 is light (24 oz), compact, reliable.
My Kahr P45 is lighter (18 oz), just as compact, and just as reliable.

PM45, you say? Got my attention. I look forward to seeing what Kahr can do with the P45.

TIMC
April 16, 2007, 10:27 AM
Para used to advertize the C-645 as the smallest .45 in the world. Don't know if it still is. I like mine a lot.
6.5" length x 4.75" height
http://www.paraord.com/images/pixel.gif

msimonds
April 16, 2007, 10:34 AM
http://www.bersafirearmsusa.com/images/pistols/bersa_thunder45_large.jpg

I believe this is one of the smallest. I saw one of these at a local gun store and put it next to my PT145 and it was smaller, not by much, but it was!

ZeSpectre
April 16, 2007, 10:50 AM
I have to agree with MPanova and Jeepmor. The Taurus Millennium Pro PT-145 is probably the smallest/lightest .45ACP out right now that I would recommend.

(The Kahr may be smaller but I will admit to a personal prejudice against Kahr arms so I will never recommend them.)

Ask TinyGnat219 about it, he's owned the 745 which he sold to buy the higher capacity PT-145.

The size difference between the 745 and the PT-145 is so small it hardly matters, but having the 10+ capacity of the PT-145 is well worth a couple of millimeters in my book.

SWModel19
April 16, 2007, 09:20 PM
The Bersa is small, and I certainly like mine (quite accurate and reliable), but it is heavy. So heavy that when I acquired my M&P40c (which holds 3 more rounds, albiet of a smaller caliber), the M&P became my primary compact carry, and the Bersa became a safe queen/range gun.

One other thing I don't like about the Bersa - you cannot carry cocked and locked. The safety is a decocker, but not in the way a USP safety decocks (up is safe, down is decock). For the Bersa, putting the safety on automatically decockes the pistol.

Wes Janson
April 17, 2007, 12:17 AM
I don't remember dimensions offhand, but I think the Kimber RCP might be slightly smaller in certain dimensions, specifically width and maybe length.

fun2none
April 17, 2007, 01:50 AM
http://pictures.auctionarms.com/8266170315/0ecf040a8e3e5d6ba6c3f7e43e8556af.jpg?aa=20070416214637

Haycreek
April 17, 2007, 02:10 PM
The Detonics "Combat Master" has a 3 1/2 inch barrel , six in the mag, and is likely the best, most dependable, sub compact ever made. The sub compact has some features that other don't have. Check out the detonics Combat Master. I know ot two that has over 20,000 rounds with no malfunctions, and has the original recoil springs. [three, counterwound coil recoil spring, fully captured on the guiderod} Note that Kimber reccomends a change every 8,000 Rounds ! :)

Haycreek
April 17, 2007, 02:12 PM
No MIM parts in the Detonics !

jaybar
April 17, 2007, 05:48 PM
Ok so its a single-shot but just imagine lighting off a a hardball round in this little rascal!! http://members.aol.com/wsp45/index.html

los
April 17, 2007, 06:16 PM
....The Detonics "Combat Master" has a 3 1/2 inch barrel , six in the mag, and is likely the best, most dependable, sub compact ever made.

Precisely on-point!

The Detonics CombatMaster was the brainchild of Detonics founder and CombatMaster's designer,..Sid Woodcock.

Detonics [Sid Woodcock] invented the compact 1911. They perfected it and got it right the first time!

tostada
April 18, 2007, 02:56 AM
Ok so its a single-shot but just imagine lighting off a a hardball round in this little rascal!! http://members.aol.com/wsp45/index.html

I can't help but think anybody would be better off with a decent pocket knife than something like that. It's not like you could really count on hitting someone from more than 5 feet away with that thing, and you've only got one shot.

Seriously, when I was looking at super-small guns, I ended up just getting a CRKT M16-14Z. At 5" closed, it seems pretty huge by knife standards, but it weighs 6 oz. and fits in your pocket easily. It's like a belly gun, but more accurate and it has unlimited ammo.

I'm just not comfortable even thinking of anything smaller than say a Kel-Tec PF-9 that I can actually grip with my whole hand.

I think people forget there are other things besides guns to defend yourself with. If it's not a gun that actually shoots well, I'd feel safer with pepper spray.

Plumber576
April 18, 2007, 03:43 AM
Para warthog? 10+1?

SniperStraz
April 18, 2007, 09:57 AM
tostada said regarding the WSP:
I can't help but think anybody would be better off with a decent pocket knife than something like that.
+1 tostada. Evetually we come to a point where we've circled back around and uninvented our inventions. I think some people have forgotten why the firearm was needed in the first place. Once I'm already at bad breath distances I'll either use a real gun that can buy me some distance or else I'll protect myself with a knife. That WSP can only really be used at contact distances anyway. May as well be a knife.

Sigdude
April 18, 2007, 08:45 PM
is small and around $385.
6 rounds.
Some guns are classified as " Saturday Night Specials " by State Federal laws and cannot be sold in certain states.
Alot of " Micro " guns fall into this catagory,but mostly just the REAL cheap,junk guns.
[ some call them ghetto-guns ] ......sorry Rev. Sharpton and Jackson !:o

MICHAEL T
April 19, 2007, 02:48 AM
Some guns are classified as " Saturday Night Specials " by State Federal laws and cannot be sold in certain states.

What is a state federal law some body want to put this in to understandable. english.
I don't really think and pistol we discussed here untill this post was a SNS .
Colts ,Kimbers, Kahr Springfield, Para are far for SNS
But I still want to know what the devil a STATE FEDERAL LAW IS:banghead:

innerpiece
April 20, 2007, 01:38 PM
Taurus pt145 milpro, or Kahr p45.

taurus and kahr are both great compat pistol, and they have went bang every time in my exp..

Sigdude
April 20, 2007, 07:54 PM
The " Federal Laws " restrict assult guns and magazine capacities.
The " State Laws " restrict so called " Saturday Night Specials " because of their short barrel length,and their low cost.They are also refered to as "junk guns ".And because of their low cost,they are favored by so called " ghetto ganstas' "

I don't think my posting about the quality of "S.N.S." and name brand guns was out of place in this thread.Nor was it in bad-taste.
Please don't turn this into another " Imus " issue.
My mistake was not to put an " and " between the combined words of " Federal State " laws.
But really Michael....i think you,i,and everybody else on this Forum knew what i meant.

Right ?

mausermania
April 21, 2007, 02:33 AM
LLAMA Minimax 10+1 45. Identical to Para's Warthog in everything but the pretty two tone finish ( Llama is black parkerized ). Mine shoots well , carries cocked and locked as any 1911 and is about 1/4 of the price if you can find one. ( sold new for about $200 I believe). As far as reliability I have'nt had any problems with any jacketed rounds including flying ashtray JHPs. Picked this one up for $265 , a bit higher than I wanted to pay but sure beats the $800 a shiny new Warthog goes for nowdays!

Headless
April 21, 2007, 03:14 AM
Not the smallest around, but very small - the S&W CS45 :)
http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/images/firearms/103014_large.jpg
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=12753&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y

6+1...i'd probably go with the 7+1 9mm CS9 variant personally..but the CS45 calls to me. The CS9 is ~ 1/4" shorter OAL and is 20oz empty vs. 23 for the cs45.

mausermania
April 21, 2007, 04:11 AM
Boy , you guys sure do get wound up tight sometimes don't you! There ought to be some STATE FEDERAL LAW against that! hehe

Semmerling
June 1, 2008, 06:26 PM
Arch is correct...and there are only five whose whereabouts are still know. Three at the National Firearms Museum and two at the Cody Firearms Museum. The rest are still in service or sitting in some pretty remarkable peoples top shelves.

They are the smallest .45 automatics in the world. A full five shot, slide can be locked out for suppression and yes, the kick is astonishing.

Enjoy this rare shot.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e309/DAMNYANKEE2006/DSCN5803.jpg

Jim Watson
June 1, 2008, 06:32 PM
But the LM4 is NOT an automatic, as Arch said. It is, for want of a better term, a pump action pistol; manually operated.

I think the Kahr PM45 may well be the smallest auto, but even American Handgunner was frantically making excuses for its lack of reliability.

jocko
June 1, 2008, 06:32 PM
I would say the karh pm45 is one of the smallest and certainly one of the lites. A super little rocket cannon tha tis ultra quality. I think they come in at about 18 ounces..

jocko
June 1, 2008, 06:36 PM
probably the kahr pm45 is one of the smallest and certainly the litest around at this time. Double action and ultra quality and I think it comes in at 18 ounces. super handgun.

Semmerling
June 1, 2008, 06:42 PM
Jim, you are correct, the LM4 is not an automatic...BUT...you are NOT looking at an LM4...you are looking at one of the five (5) publically known XLMs (those are some of the others around it in the picture, on their way to the National Firearms Museum)...an automatic forward strip marvel.

Gentleman, this is the picture of the smallest produced automatic .45 in history, a full five (5) shot masterpiece made under contract for the U.S. Army.

Yes, there are still some out there. And yes, ARCH is really quite a remarkable person to have known about them (read his writing and you will see he refers to it properly as the XLM...NOT the LM4)........well done Arch, you know more than most..all the way from Australia...astonishing.

Jim Watson
June 1, 2008, 10:25 PM
Interesting.

Whatever happened to Philip Lichtman? I was waiting for him to get over the LM4 and go back to finish the LM3, a 9mm P the size of a PPK, by his own description.

32winspl
June 2, 2008, 01:34 PM
I've had an AMT Backup 45. Mine was totally reliable, a tad heavy, way more accurate out to 10 yds than I had any right to expect, and was a daily-carry gun for about 2 years. I carried it in a cheap leather pocket holster in my front left jeans pocket, and could easily and quickly draw it. I sold it to a friend just before moving here to Wisconsin.
Something to bear in mind for those of you looking for a pocketable 45 mini... the overall length isn't the problem, it's overall height that matters most. The P45 (Kahr) I owned until recently could NOT be pocketed or drawn smoothly... it had to be wiggled around and be drawn magazine-end first (could not be drawn straight out). It's overall height (from mag to top of the rear sight) was just a shade less than 5". From others, I've heard that the PM45 is about 1/2" shorter in height. That might work better. The AMT was just over 4" from the bottom of it's heel-mag-release to the "channel" sight.
Now, when/if Wisconsin ever gets to ccw, I'll be looking for another pocketable 45 in the 4 to 4 1/4" height range. Maybe that'll mean another AMT, a PM45 (or one cut down by one round), or whatever is around by then that will fit that height parameter.

crankshop1000
June 2, 2008, 10:24 PM
The Springfield micro compact .45 and Colt Defender are the same size. Both are dependable and are designed to be CCW friendly.Quality pieces, I have one of each.

AdamSean
June 3, 2008, 01:40 AM
I am looking at a Kahr PM45. I used to have a PM9 and liked it. I have since gone to the bigger boom though, so I want a small, easy to conceal .45 auto.

Randyc74
June 3, 2008, 01:44 AM
I carry a PM45. I do believe it's the smallest 45 Cal. pistol.
I've found the PM45 to be totally reliable and usually carry it in my pocket as a backup to my duty Glock 23.

Anotherguy
June 3, 2008, 09:38 AM
My vote goes to the Colt Defender. It's both slim and lightweight. Mine has been 100% reliable.

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r308/longtail_photos/101_2532.jpg

outerlimit
June 3, 2008, 11:52 PM
Maybe we can get somebody to buy the patents and make some new XLM's in stainless? :cool:

Dan-O
June 4, 2008, 01:13 AM
+1 on the Kahr PM45. I have found mine to be totally reliable as well.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/dantruesdale/100_2633.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/dantruesdale/100_2638.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/dantruesdale/100_2636.jpg

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w71/dantruesdale/100_2635.jpg

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