New Guy Needs Help Crimp & Expand


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mike240se
April 16, 2007, 07:26 AM
Hey guys, thanks to all your help I am all setup and making rounds! I made my first 10 9mm rounds last night and everything went well except for 2 things I was very unsure about.

1) Crimping. I dont understand how the crimp should be, i dont know how it should look, etc. It looked like it didnt even need a crimp, the bullet wouldnt budge before i crimped it when pressing it hard against the workbench, nose first. I tried the factory crimp die and the seating die to do the crimp. I have attached a picture below that shows how they came out, the ones on the right are factory crimp die and the 2 rows on the left are crimped from the seating die. I dont even know if it crimped them, i do notice this taper type thing where its thick then thin then thick, i dont see this on my factory ammo.

2) Flaring the case. How much do you flare the case? I wasnt sure how deep to go. I made it just big enough to barely fit in the bullet, i assume thats correct, it guess it was like a little less than 1/8inch i could tell cause the case was shiny inside where it was flared.

The main thing i need help on is the crimping, i am worried i will have a problem with it being too loose or too tight and being a problem.

Thanks. Here is the picture:

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m266/mike240se/bullets004-1.jpg

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The Bushmaster
April 16, 2007, 09:52 AM
They all look just fine. If you are not sure...Drop them in to the chamber. If you hear a solid "clink" you're good to go. All you have to make sure of is that you don't over crimp them. All you are doing is removing the bell. Measure one that hasn't been crimped and one that you have crimped. If you see any difference at all, even if it's only .001" you are good to go. Either the seating/crimping die or the FCD will do just fine...

armoredman
April 16, 2007, 10:18 AM
Looks good to me. Ditto on the chamber check, easiest way to make sure it works in your gun. If you set the FCDfor moderate crimp, you are golden. As it is, looks fine.
My first 9mm reloads, I overtightened the crimp on the bullet seating die, and ended up with roll crimped ammo...didn't work to well... You're doing fine.:cool:

mike240se
April 16, 2007, 04:50 PM
great thanks guys, as soon as this monsoon in nj passes and businesses open back up i will go check out my new ammo.

I went a little overboard cleaning and stuff, i hand cleaned every primer pocket :)

Another thing i forgot to ask, the lee chamfer tool, how the hell do you do the outside of the case???? The case isnt long enough to fit inside the tool and the point only does the inside, but it says inside/outside, i know its probably something dumb but i cant figure it out....

ALso, I am really wishing i got the classic turret press already, switching dies is a pain, i might just go and order it, cant hurt to have an extra single stage press for decapping or something.... I also need a more sturdy workbench, it wiggles like crazy when i re-size, i didnt realize resizing was such a strenuous thing, maybe lube will help, i havent been using it. I bought the rcbs lube pad and i have the lee lube, do i just spread it on the pad, roll the case on it and thats it or do i need to clean the lube from the brass when all is done then?

thanks again guys

cdrt
April 16, 2007, 05:09 PM
I don't chamfer pistol cases, only rifle. When I was loading 9mm's, I taper crimped them rather than roll crimping.
Are you not using a carbide sizer die?

Navy Vet

mike240se
April 16, 2007, 06:21 PM
I don't chamfer pistol cases, only rifle. When I was loading 9mm's, I taper crimped them rather than roll crimping.
Are you not using a carbide sizer die?


Dont you need to remove the little burrs that can develop on the rim of the case?

Also isnt it impossible to roll crimp 9mm? I am confused about taper/roll, from what i understand is the die will only do a taper or roll? or can a die do both? how would you change between the two?

Yes i have a carbide sizer die and carbide factory crimp die.

Also, OAL, this is the minimum length of the finished cartridge? For my 115gr Jacketed Round Nose bullet with my Hodgons Universal powder it says OAL 1.125in. But I measured a factory round using the same size bullet and its much shorted, like 1.10 or less. My 1.125 rounds do chamber and load from the mag in my gun but they seem long. But from what i understand they must be atleast this long? Any longer than that i think it wouldnt fit in the mag. Do you usually make it exactly the Min OAL or more?

cdrt
April 16, 2007, 09:10 PM
I've never noticed any burrs that needed chamfering when loading pistol cases, so I guess I'll have to defer to someone else to see if they ever chamfer their pistol cases.
I got a little confused when you were talking about resizing. 9mms take a little effort to resize; seems like more effort than resizing .45s. Probably something to do with the smaller case vs. the same thickness of brass as a bigger case. Don't use any lube since you have a carbide die; it will just screw it up.
I'll have to defer to someone else about OAL. Factory stuff has to fit "anyone's gun" so it will be minimums on OAL, etc. so it will fit in a variety of magazines. I only load .45 ACP and .38 Specials on a regular basis..got rid of all my 9's a long time ago, but I'm sure someone will have an answer on OAL for you.

Navy Vet

mike240se
April 16, 2007, 09:20 PM
I've never noticed any burrs that needed chamfering when loading pistol cases, so I guess I'll have to defer to someone else to see if they ever chamfer their pistol cases.
I got a little confused when you were talking about resizing. 9mms take a little effort to resize; seems like more effort than resizing .45s. Probably something to do with the smaller case vs. the same thickness of brass as a bigger case. Don't use any lube since you have a carbide die; it will just screw it up.
I'll have to defer to someone else about OAL. Factory stuff has to fit "anyone's gun" so it will be minimums on OAL, etc. so it will fit in a variety of magazines. I only load .45 ACP and .38 Specials on a regular basis..got rid of all my 9's a long time ago, but I'm sure someone will have an answer on OAL for you.


thanks for the info, hopefully someone can chime in about the OAL and chamfering. How is the .38 special reloading? I just ordered dies to reload .38 special today, i have a s&w 10-5 with 2" snub nose barrel. I am looking forward to saving some money. I ordered some flat nose FMJ rounds to start with, but will pick up some round nose at the store. I am testing various rounds before i buy bulk...

RustyFN
April 16, 2007, 09:23 PM
Don't you need to remove the little burrs that can develop on the rim of the case?
You don't need to chamfer unless you trim and you don't need to trim straight wall pistol cases.
Also isn't it impossible to roll crimp 9mm? I am confused about taper/roll, from what i understand is the die will only do a taper or roll? or can a die do both? how would you change between the two?
You only need to roll crimp if the bullet has a crimp grove in it. For 9mm you want to set the FCD up to just remove the bell put in by the powder/expander die. Run a empty case all the way into the FCD. Run the FCD stem down until it touches the case. Take the case out of the die and turn it down about 1/2 turn more. You can adjust from there but that should be close.
Yes i have a carbide sizer die and carbide factory crimp die.
With carbide dies you don't want to use lube. IMO it will only create extra work cleaning lube off cases and out of dies.
Also, OAL, this is the minimum length of the finished cartridge? For my 115gr Jacketed Round Nose bullet with my Hodgons Universal powder it says OAL 1.125in. But I measured a factory round using the same size bullet and its much shorted, like 1.10 or less. My 1.125 rounds do chamber and load from the mag in my gun but they seem long. But from what i understand they must be atleast this long? Any longer than that i think it wouldnt fit in the mag. Do you usually make it exactly the Min OAL or more?
The WWB rounds I have measure 1.135 for round nose. I load mine at 1.130 and don't have any problems. Max OAL in the Speer 13 manual is 1.168. Be careful with OAL and going to short as the pressure will rise. I had a problem with some 124 flat point where the manual called for 1.120 and the longest I could seat them and have them work was 1.030. I reduced the load and worked them back up.
Rusty

cdrt
April 16, 2007, 10:20 PM
I'm probably the last guy to ask about reloading .38s since 99% of what I do is for my Clark 1911 .38 Special conversion. For that I load a 148 grain HBWC with between 2.7 and 3.0 of Bullseye. The bullets are seated just below the rim of the case with very little crimping...I just ordered a taper crimp die from C-H for my Star reloader.
For my S&W K38, I load either the HBWC or a 158 grain SWC (usually Hornady) with 2.7 grains of BE, which is pretty nice target load and economical to shoot.
I load the HBWC below the rim, since in the autoloader, if you seat them out at all, sometimes some lead will shave off and coat the top of the chamber when the round comes up out of the magazine. When the round is fired, the heat will disperse the lead and create a coating up there that can cause rounds not to eject very well. I never realized that seating them out could be a problem until I had to clean the chamber because of the leading.

Navy Vet

mike240se
April 16, 2007, 11:05 PM
You only need to roll crimp if the bullet has a crimp grove in it. For 9mm you want to set the FCD up to just remove the bell put in by the powder/expander die. Run a empty case all the way into the FCD. Run the FCD stem down until it touches the case. Take the case out of the die and turn it down about 1/2 turn more. You can adjust from there but that should be close.


How do i seat the die? You explained how to set the stem which i understand but how do i set the die first? Push the ram full up and have the die touch the shell holder? and then set stem afterwards? Will the stem only affect crimp or will it also move the bullet? Does the seating of the die itself adjust crimp at all with the FCD?


Navy Guy, what are the benefits of wad cutters, i have never even seen one besides online pictures, are they cheaper for target shooting? I assume they are for target shooting if they are made small, since that sounds bad for personal defense.

cdrt
April 17, 2007, 08:39 AM
Wadcutters are pretty much the same price as other lead bullets, depending on where you get them. I just got 2,000 from Magnus Bullets for $104 delivered. They're designed for target work since they cut a nice clean hole for scoring and it's the only bullet you can load for the S&W Model 52, Colt Gold Cup in .38 or any of the other 1911 conversions. Not a bullet for defensive work, even though I've heard of guys loading the HBWC backwards so you have that big cavity acting like a huge hollow point...not very accurate I'm told.

My K38 loves the full wadcutter but does not shoot the 158 grain SWC worth beans (factory ammo). I've been able to get it to shoot the 158 SWC with my loads, but they're not legal for the Distinguished Revolver Match; NRA rules only allow factory or remanufactured ammo from a company, not individual reloads. When I go to Perry this year I'm going to the meeting for the Distinguished Revolver Match to see if we can get an ammo change in the rules.

Navy Vet & SWIFT Boat OIC

HeedJSU
April 17, 2007, 09:00 AM
I just loaded my first batch of 38 spl. From a newcomer's standpoint, it's probably one of the easiest loads to start with. It seemed like it was pretty hard to screw up. As a mater of fact, in 200 rounds (my first 200, mind you) I screwed up only one round...and that was because i set the bullet too deep. (any suggestions for pulling a LSWC that's set like a LWC?....ouch) I really enjoyed my first batch, but I'm like you, I'm already tired of switching dies. Doing it in batches of 100 seemed to make it a little better though. It does seem that resizing takes considerable effort on the .38 spl, and I am using the carbide sizer dies. (Lee Deluxe pistol set) anyways, hope this helps, good luck.

Justin

cdrt
April 17, 2007, 11:17 AM
Those kinetic bullet pullers work like a champ.:)
I've never noticed .38 Specials being hard to resize. I'm using a RCBS carbide resizer with a RCBS Junior press.

Navy Vet

mike240se
April 17, 2007, 11:41 PM
Hey guys, great news! I fired 50 rounds of my first reloaded ammo today at the range with great results! No misfires, no hot loads, all the cases i examined after being fired looked good, primer looked normal. Very accurate too! I am very happy so far. I am excited to get my 38 dies this week so i can start reloading my for my 38.

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