[SpeedAKL]

As you probably know, something terrible happened today at my school. I am soon turning 21 and thus will be eligible for CCW and handgun ownership here in Virginia (so long as the laws aren't changed due to anti-gun hysteria:uhoh: )

What happened today made me further realize that it's my responsibility to protect myself and my friends and family and that I can't rely on others to do it.

I have a questions for guys and gals here with concealed carry permits:
1. How often do you guys actually use it? There are like 400,000 CCW permit holders in Virginia, but do most of you guys actually carry regularly?
2. How often are you asked to leave the premises of a business because you're carrying?
3. Do you have any stats on CCW and crime prevention, and have you or anyone you know had an experience with CCW and a crime or dangerous situation?
4. What handgun do you carry concealed and/or use for personal defense?

I really don't know too much about it, so these questions will probably seem very basic.

[Jim PHL]

My thoughts and prayers are with you and your family and friends.

Please do a lot of thinking and "soul searching" about carrying a gun. I happen to believe that more people should carry than actually do, but there are also many people who should not. I hope you end up carrying legally and responsibly and that you'll never need to use whatever you end-up with.

I have been licensed to carry concealed for ten years. I have had my hand on the gun exactly once with the idea that I might need it. I never actually drew it on that single occasion.

I have always said I carry with the idea that I am much more likely to encounter a situation like today's than to be robbed or "jumped" when in the wrong place at the wrong time. My common sense allows me to avoid many of the more obvious places where there may be trouble, but you never know where or when you might encounter a disgruntled employee, jilted lover or just plain nut, like today's sad event.

Be safe.

[ZeSpectre]

Welcome on board! Sorry it's under these circumstances.

What happened today made me further realize that it's my responsibility to protect myself and my friends and family and that I can't rely on others to do it.

Welcome to a much larger world. The responsibility is heavy and needs to be taken seriously but you'll be amazed at how self-reliance makes you feel about the world in general.

1. How often do you guys actually use it? There are like 400,000 CCW permit holders in Virginia, but do most of you guys actually carry regularly?
I live in VA and work in DC. Therefore I can-not CCW when at work or traveling to/from. When in Virginia (or West Virginia for that matter) I carry about 80% of the time when out of my house. Some folks carry more, some less, some not at all. I even know a CCW holder who doesn't own a single gun. Why? As they say, better to have and not need than the other way around.

2. How often are you asked to leave the premises of a business because you're carrying?
Not once so far. I have concealment down pretty well. As far as resturants go I lock my sidearm up vs. open carry.

3. Do you have any stats on CCW and crime prevention, and have you or anyone you know had an experience with CCW and a crime or dangerous situation?

Providing stats on crime prevented is almost impossible because, well, nothing happened (or at least nothing got reported). Do I know anyone with actual experience with CCW and a "problem"? Yes.

4. What handgun do you carry concealed and/or use for personal defense?

I prefer guns in .40 S&W some love that round, others hate it. What gun and what caliber to use is an ENDLESS debate here. Mostly if boils down to using what you can accurately shoot and practicing with it until you have it down cold.

Some unsolicited advice.
No offense intended but right now you are probably having a reaction to events. Completely understandable but please try to make sure you have a little "distance" between yourself and events before you proceed. Decisions regarding firearms MUST be made in as calm and rational a manner as is possible.

The decision to own a firearm is a big responsibility and even in Virginia carries a bit of a social stigma (especially with the college crowd). Be prepared for the inevitable issues that will arise and be informed as to how to counter the typical illogic that the anti-gun crowd attacks with. There are threads all over THR about this.

Owning a firearm isn't just buying a gun and shooting it a few times. It's a larger commitment to learning firearms safety and sticking with it (even if others roll their eyes about it). It also means committing yourself to TRAINING so that you know how to use a firearm under stress. If you aren't up to the full monty, pick a different method of defense because firearms are not a magic wand and without proper training can be worse than useless.

Now it may sound like I'm trying to talk you out of owning firearms for self defense. Not so at all, I just prefer that people understand the big picture before they get a ways down the road.

[jfanzen]

hey man... go get it.. im 21 but dont have a ccw... im thinking of it... there is a 25 year old male in my class who is bipolar.. has anxiety attacks.. he is just plane ass crazy! he jumps at me with no reason... and i just take it because i know his condition... i told him to stop talking to me he pissess me off ... and im thinking of concealing a gun while im at school... you never ever ever know! good luck my friend

[daysleeprx]

im thinking of concealing a gun while im at school.

That sounds like a really really bad idea.

[The Law]

im thinking of concealing a gun while im at school.

That sounds like a really really bad idea.

Have you been following the news? 32 of his classmates/professors just got shot by some wacko.

I think it's a very good idea to carry. If I was in the same position, I'd do it too.

[jlbraun]

@The Law


im thinking of concealing a gun while im at school.
That sounds like a really really bad idea.
Have you been following the news? 32 of his classmates/professors just got shot by some wacko.

I think it's a very good idea to carry. If I was in the same position, I'd do it too.


Actually, 32 were KILLED. About 50 total were SHOT.

And I agree with the OP. If I went to a school that banned CCW, I would go out tomorrow and buy a Kahr 9mm and a SmartCarry.

[usp9]

SpeedAKL, Welcome to the forum. I'm a '75 grad, lived in Rasche Hall for a couple years. My heart is broken that such a horrible event took place at Tech.

While you are able to obtain a permit to carry when you reach 21, you cannot legally carry on campus.

[SpeedAKL]

I'm not going to rush into it or anything. It's definitely something that will be on my mind more often though. Obviously, no decision involving firearms should be made based on emotion, as we've unfortunately witnessed today

[SpeedAKL]

True. I wish the regs could be changed to allow it on campus, but unfortunately I feel that I'm in the minority opinion when it comes to CCW on campus. Hopefully this won't turn VA into a big anti-gun state.

[modifiedbrowning]

1. How often do you guys actually use it? There are like 400,000 CCW permit holders in Virginia, but do most of you guys actually carry regularly?
I carry everyday from when I leave the house until I go to bed.
2. How often are you asked to leave the premises of a business because you're carrying?[/QUOTEI have never been asked to leave a business because of my CONCEALED carry. I have never been made AFAIK.
[QUOTE]3. Do you have any stats on CCW and crime prevention,
Check out a book titled "More Guns Less Crime" by John Lott.

[CraigJS]

jfransen, Think it over long and hard before you get a CCW, you still have a bit of maturing to do. All the reasons you posted about would land you in jail.. You can afford a temper, you can afford a gun, you can't afford both.. Carrying a weapon if anything should allow you feel LESS the need to respond to that kind of verbal stuff. Getting pissed off and carrying don't mix well.
I'm not saying don't defend yourself, just pick your actions carefully..

[6_gunner]

My thoughts and prayers go out to you and your classmates. My school is holding a prayer vigil for the victims' families and the survivors this evening.

To answer your questions:
I have never been asked to leave a business because I'm carrying; as far as I know, nobody's ever been able to tell I'm carrying.

I carry a medium frame .38 revolver with a 6" barrel, which is relatively easy to conceal tucked in the waistband at the back of my jeans. The revolver's long barrel keeps it in place and allows it to ride at about a 45 degree angle.

I carry a pistol almost everywhere except for work, church and school.
The terrible tragedy at your school has made me decide to start carrying to my classes. I plan on getting a Colt 1908 .25 pistol for this purpose, which I will conceal in one of my boots.

[harthamm]

The post by Jfanzen is a perfect example as to why there should be ongoing debate and discussion on CCW and the responsibilities that come with it. This is clearly a situation where a person and his community would be better served by waiting .
As I understand it, CCW is meant to be defensive when there is a definite threat to one's life and health. Verbal discussion and avoidance is to be used if a person rubs you the wrong way, but, doesn't threaten your life.

[daysleeprx]

Have you been following the news? 32 of his classmates/professors just got shot by some wacko.

Yes as a matter of fact, I have.

So are you saying you'd willingly break laws that forbid carrying on school grounds? Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of lawfully applying for a CCW? If people are just going to carry where they want, then what's the point of having a CCW law at all?

[ojibweindian]

SpeedAKL, here are my answers:

1. How often do you guys actually use it? There are like 400,000 CCW permit holders in Virginia, but do most of you guys actually carry regularly?
I carry every single day.

2. How often are you asked to leave the premises of a business because you're carrying?
I've yet to be asked to leave a premises; of course, that's because no one has "caught" me carrying.

3. Do you have any stats on CCW and crime prevention, and have you or anyone you know had an experience with CCW and a crime or dangerous situation?
Google John Lott, google "CCW", and go to the DoJ web site. That should get you started in the right direction.

4. What handgun do you carry concealed and/or use for personal defense?
Right now, I carry a full-sized 1911A1. Great pistol chambered in a great cartridge. Of course, there are many other equally good platforms and cartridges.

[Croyance]

1.) Whenever practical and even when not.
2.) Concealed means just that. So nobody sees and I don't talk about having a gun on me. I do respect the rules that others have on their property, so if it is posted, I don't carry if I can avoid it (if I am just dropping something off real fast, I might not care enough).
4.) Depends on many conditions. Have smaller guns and have carried a Browning HiPower or 1911.

[jlbraun]

@daysleeperx

So are you saying you'd willingly break laws that forbid carrying on school grounds?

A lot of no-carry-on-campus regulations aren't state law, just school regulations. I think that there are going to be a lot of armed students on a lot of campuses tomorrow.

If people are just going to carry where they want, then what's the point of having a CCW law at all?

Exactly the point. Vermont-style carry with no restrictions on where you can carry is the ideal solution.

[bowline]

Hello, SpeedAKL, welcome to the board. I am very sorry it is under such circumstances.

I spend most of my time at sea, but when home, I carry every day. Usually a 1911, but during summer when it is too hot for even a light vest, I'll switch to a smaller pistol. You'd be amazed how unobservant many people are.

I've never been asked to leave a business. One time, though, the manager did chat me up for half an hour on my choice of pistol. Seems CCW types are more observant than others.

I've been an unwilling participant in one home invasion, and one attempted carjacking. I was armed both times, which may be why I am still here typing this.

There are many links on the internet - including the relatively recent incident in Tennessee where an armed college student stopped another armed student who was intent on shooting people. Google is your friend...

I'll bet that somewhere near you, a gun blogger or THR member is willing to take you to the range, introduce you to shooting, and give you some pointers on continuing your education on this subject.

[JahRoose]

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-50658

Some of the bigwigs at VT had pressed for the killing of a bill that would have allowed CC on college campuses. This was after a big hubub in april of 05 where a student was busted for CC. (he was let off)

[Run&Shoot]

Never been asked to leave a premises, but when I lived in Washington the Space Needle gift shop security guard made my CCW I think because he got all nervous suddenly and shadowed me even out to the sidewalk. I turned around and all friendly like asked him for directions and he about pooped himself. But he had no reason to detain me or ask me about it because it was perfectly legal.

Normally have a G23 or had a S&W 642 but gave it to a daughter. Now looking to get a Keltec P3AT tomorrow, and later another S&W 642. I have the G23 with me 85% of the time in either IWB or daypack external pocket. The P3AT will be my always-except-in-bed gun (have a 1911 there).

Usually I am able to avoid any situation that seems to be getting hinky. Only put my hand on my 642 a couple of times but no need to draw. Some studies (John Lott?) estimates about 1-2 million defensive use of firearms every year by citizens. Only about 10% of the time are shots required as just the presence of a firearm is usually enough to defuse or deter.

[TX1911fan]

From what I understand, it's not a law to not carry on VT grounds. Virginia law makes it legal to carry on school grounds, but leaves it up to the school to decide. So it is a VT rule. It sounded to me like the worst that would happen is you get expelled if you are caught. I could be wrong though.

[Waywatcher]

I bet there are 32 families who would rather have alive and expelled students right now. :(

[Wordsmith]

I'm sorry about what has happened at your university, SpeedAKL. I'm still in shock, as I'm sure you are.

I'm 24 years old and carry my weapon concealed about 95% of the time that I'm out of the house. I have no problem concealing an HK P2000 or Glock 19 under a T-shirt with a good belt and inside-the-waistband holster (I'm 5' 10" and 170 lbs.). I've never been "made" by anyone except family who hugged a bit too low and tight.

I've never been asked to leave the premises of an establishment because they never knew I was carrying. Sometimes my wife wants to know if I'm carrying, and she has to ask, because she can't tell.

I continue to be pretty religious about carrying because of an assault I witnessed when I was 20. Like a handful of other witnesses, I watched as an elderly man was beaten with baseball bats by two teenagers. I felt helpless to do anything during the attack, and guilty afterwards for not having intervened. I bought a handgun the day I turned 21 and obtained my handgun permit soon after.

My wife also has a handgun permit and has carried maybe one time in the three years she has been legal. Some people (like her) get a handgun permit merely so they can have the option. Some of us get one because we know that wolves can pop up anywhere. Heck, some of us have locked eyes with them.

Getting a handgun permit does not obligate you to carry all the time. Only you can decide what's best for you, but I know for sure that I won't be complaining that there is one more person with a handgun permit in the world.

[sansone]

I can answer one question for you: when I first got the permit I had a .357 revolver and quickly noticed how hard it was to secretely be armed. In otherwords TRULY concealed. I feel being armed should be a secret. I traded the revolver for a 380 auto and BINGO.. could walk anyplace without anyone knowing I was packin';) / also had to upgrade the cheap 380 to a Mustang because the cheap auto didn't always go bang. nothing worse than surprise no bang:D

[briansmech]

two words: copy. cat.

if i were a college student again today, u can bet yer sweet bippy i'd weigh about 1.5 pounds of steel, lead, and poly heavier today, regardless of policy.

[Autolycus]

For the original poster: I know campus is closed today but I was wondering if they are going to increase security? Are they re-evaluating their policies in regards to carry? (I am assuming making harsher penalties for weapons on campus) Are they installing metal detectors? What about training the police for active shooter scenarios?

My condolences to all who lost someone and all who were lost.

[deltacharlie]

if i were a college student again today, u can bet yer sweet bippy i'd weigh about 1.5 pounds of steel, lead, and poly heavier today, regardless of policy.two words: right! on!

these incidents can go in streaks and there may be another wacko out there, maybe on another campus someplace, thinking NOW is the time.

Hey Speed - leave the knee-jerk reactions to the less logical lefties in this country. Get some distance from this incident and think through your decision to carry. Carrying a gun is a HUGE responsibility at any age. You'd be committing to a lifestyle that may or may not be for you.

As a gunowner, CCW holder and someone who strongly supports the 2nd in no uncertain terms, I'd like nothing more than to add you to our ranks. But, unlike the left, I will not use tragedy to advance OUR agenda and recruit new members to our cause, now is not the time for that nonsense.

For the time being, look to your friends and classmates, support each other and be thankful you can go home to your family at the end of this semester.

Other opinions may vary, but that is my advice to you for the moment.

Be well, be thankful and stay safe!

[Daemon688]

1. How often do you guys actually use it? There are like 400,000 CCW permit holders in Virginia, but do most of you guys actually carry regularly?
2. How often are you asked to leave the premises of a business because you're carrying?
3. Do you have any stats on CCW and crime prevention, and have you or anyone you know had an experience with CCW and a crime or dangerous situation?
4. What handgun do you carry concealed and/or use for personal defense?

Hey there, I turned 21 a couple months ago and got my CCW permit just a month ago. I currently attend the University of Minnesota where they do not allow me to carry. So I end up leaving my carry piece in my car every day.

1. How often do I use it? Every day. My handgun follows me everywhere. The only place where the gun is not in easy reach of myself is when I'm on campus.
2. I have never been asked to leave the premises of a business.
3. I'll leave that to everyone else.
4. I daily carry my Sig-Sauer P239 SAS.

[mavracer]

take note of my sig line, I carried before ccl, with that in mind I try to obay laws and respestfully don't shop at posted buisnesses.

[moxie]

carrying a handgun onto campus except a CCW in a car for ingress/egress:

§18.2-308.1: Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited. Exemptions to this statute include a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school.

Violation is a felony.

[MrAcheson]

§18.2-308.1: Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited. Exemptions to this statute include a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school.

Violation is a felony.If you actually read the text of the law, "school" is defined "the property of any public, private or religious elementary, middle or high school, including buildings and grounds." It does not include colleges and universities. Prohibition in those places is a matter of policy not law.

Oh and like several others, I can't legally carry at work. I work on an Army base in a federal building, so carrying a weapon without express permission is a felony.

[Mad Magyar]

Presently, listening to the Glen Beck radio show, the sub. announcer, Denny Schaeffer is having a discussion on how CCW should be allowed on campus...Gun-free zones are a sham according to Mr. Schaeffer...
Anyway, I hope all college students stay vigilent...

[cosermann]

SpeedAKL,

Sorry about what happened down there.

Maybe you and your fellow students could use this awful event to illustrate why your right to protect yourself should not lightly be disregarded.

Out in Utah, the university recently wanted to restrict guns on campus. The state took them to court and won (i.e. in UT the legislature retains the sole right to decide where guns can be carried).

Staff at Indiana University could CCW until about 1995 when an anti-gun president did a number of things including changing the policy to forbid it. I doubt it will ever be undone.

It would be interesting if someone at VA sued the school for depriving them of the means to defend themselves without providing compensating protection (like a guard in every classroom or something). These school policies are usually made without considering the big picture.

Take care.

[NORTEXED]

Speed, This answer is not meant in any way shape or form to be Smart A--, but here goes. I have a 7 Y.O. Dodge pickup with 122,000 miles on it all over the Southwest, and have never had the spare tire out from under it (I do periodicaly check the air pressure), however, would I drive to the mall without a spare, NO. Why, because I choose to be responsible for mine and my families safety rather than depend on someone else to come get me if I have a flat. My CCW is exactly like my spare tire, I have one, I maintain it, and I hope I never have to use it, but I am responsible for me and mine.

[Eppenetus]

I am 73 years of age. I fired my first gun at eight years of age. I spent 22 years as a US Marine and since being medically retired from the Corps, I have kept up the shooting skills learned there while learning new ones (Clays and Skeet shooting) after retirement.

In that time (from 8 to 73) I have only had one incident outside of the military in which I wished for a concealed weapon. As one of the other contributors pointed out, you never know when you will need a weapon.

Familiarity, practice, good judgment, self discipline, and common sense are the only arbiters of when to carry and use a weapon. Take it from some one who in the course of his duties was forced to kill. YOU DO NOT WANT TO DO IT! However when it is a you or them situation, training and judgment kick-in and see you through.

I was taught two very important things in the Marine Corps., never draw and point your weapon at any thing or anyone unless you shoot and never shoot unless you mean to kill. That is still good advice to any one.

As to a hand weapon, you need the largest, most destructive weapon you can control and conceal. Over the years, for me it has proved to be the 45 ACP. I'm sure that it is because of the training and experience I received in the Corps. but it does work and work well for me. For you it may be something easier to control and less expensive to train on. In any case, you must train yourself mentally and physically for competent use of a firearm.

Good luck to you in your quest and remember, any tool is only as good or safe as its' user.

[jt1]

I bet there are 32 families who would rather have alive and expelled students right now.

+1 on that. I want to be a law abiding citizen but I will not give up the right of self-offense and my responsibility to protect my family because of misguided political judgments by people who choose to see the world as they want it to be and not how it really is.

[sm]

http://munchkinwrangler.blogspot.com/2007/04/events-of-day.html

[koja48]

First, my prayers are with you & all those affected . . . second, think your decision through . . . it's an awesome responsibility . . . third, if you opt to go this route, become proficient.

I have a questions for guys and gals here with concealed carry permits:
1. How often do you guys actually use it? There are like 400,000 CCW permit holders in Virginia, but do most of you guys actually carry regularly?

Daily, WHERE allowed. To me it's like a First Aid Kit . . . one never knows.

2. How often are you asked to leave the premises of a business because you're carrying?

Never; I don't carry where it isn't allowed; I'm unwilling to risk my 2nd Amendment right to keep & bear arms. Whenever possible, I avoid those businesses.

3. Do you have any stats on CCW and crime prevention, and have you or anyone you know had an experience with CCW and a crime or dangerous situation?

I honestly don't know re: stats. I've been in 2 situations when CCW defused the situation with no shots fired.

4. What handgun do you carry concealed and/or use for personal defense?
Usually a 1911.

[fast200]

Speed,

This might not be popular here, but if I were you I'd keep a gun 10 miles away from campus or more. I am very pro-2A, but its not worth getting expelled from school. The chance of another shooter coming into VT is probably about 1B to 1 right now with all the cops and press everywhere. Even after all this settles down, chances are extremely slim.

Besides, if you do get caught carrying on campus, the are going to make an example out of you because of the recent events. No one here likes VT's anti-gun policy, but flaunting the law down there right now IS A BAD IDEA.

Do the right thing and work with other students to change VT's rules and Virginia law. Going to jail not worth it.

[Matt Dillon]

Before you decide to carry a weapon, you first need to pray through and decide, between you and your creator, whether or not you could actually take a human life. If you cannot, please never carry a weapon! If you think you can, do yourself a big favor, go on Amazon.com and purchase the book by Massad Ayoob, "In the Gravest Extreme". This will give you a few things to think about, as you finalize your decision.

[gotarheels03]

A Bersa Thunder .380 would be a good, reliable, inexpensive choice for CCW

[Ala Dan]

Speaking from the "Heart Of Old Dixie'Land" (Alabama), I use MY CCW license
eveyday~! I don't leave home without it, or my CCW piece. I don't have any
stats to compare a CCW license with crime prevention; but I'm quite sure
there are incidents where someone's A$$ has been saved by a CCW piece;
if not their own, someone elses. You are liable to see me carrying a variety
of weapons in the wake of the trajedy on the campus of Virginia Tech. Here
lately, I have been toting a 3" Kimber Stainless Ultra Carry .45 ACP in custom
leather rig from Kirkpatrick Leather of Laredo, TX; complete with a double mag
[leather] pouch with 2x reloads. I'm think'in of quite possibly changing that
to my 4" Springfield Armory service model XD .45 ACP-F, with two tactical
reloads~! ;) :D

[Mat, not doormat]

1. Every day. Only time I don't carry is in a bar, courthouse, etc. Lock it up in the car, instead.

2. Nope. Never been made to my knowledge. And I don't go for "deep concealment," either. It's concealed, but not in my underbritches or some such. Most folks are blissfully unaware. On the other hand, in addition to a cover garment, I also use camoulflage, of a sort. Black gun, in a black holster, riding on a black belt, against a black t-shirt and jeans, under a cover shirt or jacket. Even without the overshirt, it's not really that easy to spot.

3. I'm sure someone does, but I don't have any stats at my fingertips.

4. 1911, full size, .45 ACP. I've generally also got a kel-tec .32 in my pocket. The KT used to be my primary carry, but when I started carrying the .45, I forgot to take it out of my pocket. It's just that easy to carry.

~~~Mat

[Michael Courtney]

What happened today made me further realize that it's my responsibility to protect myself and my friends and family and that I can't rely on others to do it.

I have a questions for guys and gals here with concealed carry permits:
1. How often do you guys actually use it? There are like 400,000 CCW permit holders in Virginia, but do most of you guys actually carry regularly?
2. How often are you asked to leave the premises of a business because you're carrying?
3. Do you have any stats on CCW and crime prevention, and have you or anyone you know had an experience with CCW and a crime or dangerous situation?
4. What handgun do you carry concealed and/or use for personal defense?

I really don't know too much about it, so these questions will probably seem very basic.

1. I have a CHL and I carry everywhere it is legal to do so.

2. I am never asked to leave a premises because no one knows I am carrying. If a place of business is posted against carrying, I either don't go or I do not carry in that business.

3. Do a google search. Read the NRA magazines' "Armed Citizen" column.

4. I carry a Sig P229 in .357 Sig.

Let me add that you would do well to get some training and practice regularly if you intend to carry a gun. The required training for a CCW is a start, but most people need more training and practice to become proficient.

An advantage of good training is that it increases your defensive awareness and better prepares you to avoid situations where deadly force might be needed. It also makes you better prepared in the event that you find yourself disarmed in a location with an active shooter.

Michael Courtney

[george_co]

I am suprised nobody has mentioned this to you yet. I recommend that you contact the Virginia Citizens' Defense league http://www.vcdl.org/ . They are one, in not the, best state CCW organizations out there. I bet that someone (s) would be more than happy to discuss the specifics of Virginia Laws with you, as well as give you some very good pointers on CCW classes.

Be Safe!

[Lonestar49]

Double Post

[Lonestar49]

Quote: hey man... go get it.. im 21 but dont have a ccw... im thinking of it... there is a 25 year old male in my class who is bipolar.. has anxiety attacks.. he is just plane ass crazy! he jumps at me with no reason... and i just take it because i know his condition... i told him to stop talking to me he pissess me off ... and im thinking of concealing a gun while im at school... you never ever ever know! good luck my friend
--------------------
...

Not good thinking, as you would be breaking 2 very popular, by very angry anti-gun voters laws, that if you get caught, that Felony charge remains, and you lost your weapon, and legally can't buy anymore, and if caught again, get rdy for an long, miserable, contained, non-free life ahead.

You have no idea how long each day seems behind bars, along with what type of angry people you will share a confined negative area with.

This is my fear of young people and guns, in that, your emotions are fueled more by Testosterone than learned-control of everyday life, or common sense.

Your acting on this emotion as you write and think, and it would be perceived as "planned intent" to stop this guy once and for all, the next time, when, you may well have had several other choices, one being retreat from this problem, one way or another.

This is one reason I feel that "tactical training" is a must, in that, scenario playing, role playing, can overcome your natural instincts to think, "not gonna happen anymore".. vs training that will teach you, as in marksmanship skills, safety, etc., to be learned and honed to a "natural response" over what shows right now, as an instant, screw the law, screw this idiot, young testosterone driven thought, and is not in anyone's best interest, because once you carry illegally to your school, and this guy pisses you off, you're most likely gonna draw out (cause you planned for this moment) and then the spotlight is gonna be on you, BUSTED!!, and the police are gonna be called and take you away, one way or another, even if you don't shoot this guy, but merely stop him from touching, jumping at, you.

Learn or Burn,

The great thing about these type forums is you can do just that, and make a better, more educated, decision and benefit from others, along with set an example for others of your age group, around you.

Good luck with your life, live it well..

IMHO,


LS

[Bobo]

1. How often do you guys actually use it? There are like 400,000 CCW permit holders in Virginia, but do most of you guys actually carry regularly?
I carry 24/7.

2. How often are you asked to leave the premises of a business because you're carrying?
Never - I carry concealed. If they don't know I'm carrying they won't ask.

3. Do you have any stats on CCW and crime prevention, and have you or anyone you know had an experience with CCW and a crime or dangerous situation?
Unfortunately, ACCURATE and MEANINGFUL stats are not available.
Never had to draw - never want to! Don't personally know anybody else that has either.

4. What handgun do you carry concealed and/or use for personal defense?
Kel-Tec P-3AT with ArmaLaser and two spare mags loaded with a mix of expanding and non-expanding ammo.

[Legionnaire]

SpeedAKL, lots of people praying for folks at Virginia Tech. I'm one of them. May God's grace be present with and among you.

You asked:

1. How often do you guys actually use it? There are like 400,000 CCW permit holders in Virginia, but do most of you guys actually carry regularly?

I've had carry permits in NH, NY, and PA. I use the permit(s) every day, carrying everywhere permitted by law.

2. How often are you asked to leave the premises of a business because you're carrying?

Never. Concealed is concealed. Nobody should know you are carrying. You should not talk about carrying. You don't answer questions from other than law enforcement about carrying.

3. Do you have any stats on CCW and crime prevention, and have you or anyone you know had an experience with CCW and a crime or dangerous situation?

Look for John Lott's book, More Guns, Less Crime. I have never drawn my concealed weapon in a dangerous situation. Learn situational awareness. Avoidance is the best lifestyle.

4. What handgun do you carry concealed and/or use for personal defense?

Several, depending on situation, appropriate attire, etc. "Everywhere" gun is a Kel-Tec P32. But I also regularly carry a S&W 4013 in .40S&W, a Kahr PM9 in 9mm, or a Ruger SP101 in .357 Mag.

There is some good advice in this thread. You should think long and hard about the decision to carry a gun. And I won't recommend carrying in violation of the law. You should work to get the law changed.

Another piece of advice. See if you can take Mas Ayoob's LFI-I course, or at least the Judicious Use of Lethal Force seminar. More info at this link: http://www.ayoob.com/LFIschedule.html. Get and read a copy of In the Gravest Extreme. Make sure you are mentally prepared for the responsibility that comes with the decision to carry a firearm for self defense.

Blessings to you and all those affected by this horrific event.

[Nomad, 2nd]

I have a questions for guys and gals here with concealed carry permits:
1. How often do you guys actually use it? There are like 400,000 CCW permit holders in Virginia, but do most of you guys actually carry regularly?
2. How often are you asked to leave the premises of a business because you're carrying?
3. Do you have any stats on CCW and crime prevention, and have you or anyone you know had an experience with CCW and a crime or dangerous situation?
4. What handgun do you carry concealed and/or use for personal defense?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Every day
2.Once... in a gun store... Everywhere else... it is never seen.
-They asked me to put it in the car... I got in the car and left.
3. JPFO should be able to give you all you need.
I have displayed my CCW and had it 'work'
4. S&W snubby .357
Kimber 1911
Glock 19
Kel Tec P 32
(Not all at 1x... but 2 at a time.)

[crebralfix]

I have a questions for guys and gals here with concealed carry permits:
1. How often do you guys actually use it? There are like 400,000 CCW permit holders in Virginia, but do most of you guys actually carry regularly?
2. How often are you asked to leave the premises of a business because you're carrying?
3. Do you have any stats on CCW and crime prevention, and have you or anyone you know had an experience with CCW and a crime or dangerous situation?
4. What handgun do you carry concealed and/or use for personal defense?


1. Always. Don't be one of the 32...or that guy stabbed for the $10 in the wallet.
2. Never. It's too dangerous to go anywhere without weapons.
3. http://www.smallestminority.blogspot.com/ should have stats on it somewhere. My parents were shot at after giving up their car in DC. They were not armed. I have covertly drawn my pistol on one occasion. Others have used knives. You should have two folding knives on you at all times. There is no limit on blade length in Virginia (except K-12 schools, then it's 3"). Get a Cold Steel Voyager 5". Learn to use it. knifefighting.com.
4. Typically a Glock mid-frame (19, 23, 32). Choose a gun based upon mission...smaller guns for more covert carry and larger ones when it's not required. Just always have a gun and two knives. Caliber: 38 Special or 9mm minimum. Typical recommendations: 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 9mm, 40 S&W, 357 SIG, 10mm, 45 ACP, 44 Special, 41 Magnum, 44 Magnum. Look at very small guns like the Kahr PM9, Keltec P3AT, and others. Consider the Glock 26, 19, and similar sized guns. Smith and Wesson makes some very light revolvers with short barrels. These are very good; watch Micheal Bane's videos. http://www.downrange.tv/. On of the great things about a revolver is that you don't need magazines...just speed loaders. But, it lacks the capacity of even a Glock 26.

Remember, you have a Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. The CCW permits are actually unconstitutional. It's a "permit" because you ask *permission* from the government. You do not have to ask permission to exercise a right. However, the system is setup to encourage compliance. If you wish to comply, get one. Otherwise, carry and stay quiet about it. Be the "gray man" -- the one that blends into the background and is unnoticed.

Oh, and move off campus ASAP. You don't need a blabbermouth roommate talking about your weapons...or handling them.

Budget double the price of the gun for your first handgun. Additionally, include money for ammo and training (see fpftraining.com's DHS 1). Get a SmartCarry holster, a strong side carry holster, and something you can carry centerline (in front). You'll have to experiment a bit. The DeSantis Nemesis is great for little guns in the pocket, but not very secure if you carry at the appendix (but it does work and it's under $20). The DeSantis Cozy Partner works for most small and midsized guns such as the Glock 19. You'll need cleaning gear, ammo carriers, spare magazines, eye and hearing protection, targets, and so forth.

Remember, GET TRAINED! Learn how to handle the police. Learn how to GUNFIGHT! Shooting is fun; gunfight training is hard work. Remember that difference when evaluating the training. Ask what they teach...their description of the course will tell you what you need. Amazingly, a good Airsoft gun, which should be a duplicate of your carry gun, makes for excellent training.

Summary: Carry a gun and two knives at all times. Carry at least one reload for the gun. Get trained in the legalities of lethal force and handling the police. Find a lawyer before you get in a fight. Get in shape; a fit warrior is a fighting warrior. Finally, learn to gunfight.

There, I just spent $2000 of your money.

[crebralfix]

Additionally, get a GUN BELT. Belts that are 1.25" wide don't look like they're made for guns. Get one in black and one in brown. Don Hume makes a good one at an affordable price. Your back will thank you for it.

Remember, blend in. Don't wear tactical Gucci stuff. No Glock shirts. Wear darker shirts.

Misc. points:

Forward cant to holsters helps hide the gun, unless it's a very small one like the Kahr PM9 or Glock 26.

Learn how to move such that the gun is not revealed *through* the clothes.

The more hidden a gun is, the slower the draw.

The fastest draw is the covert draw in anticipation of action. The gun is already in your hand! It could be in your pocket, hidden behind your leg, in the backpack, etc.

You can carry your gun in your hand (held across the slide, not by the grip--eyes are trained for that shape), walk across the drill field in the dim light with nobody the wiser.

[ZeSpectre]

if (God forbid) you ever have to use your gun, make sure you understand the situation. What I mean is make sure the person you see really is the bad-guy and make sure he's the only one. If there is more than one make damn sure you know where they all are before you act.

(p.s. automatically assume there is more than one bad guy until proven otherwise)

[bestseller92]

Read a little book called "Principles of Personal Defense", by Jeff Cooper.

[shu]

speedAKL

i am a 63 yr old male, retired air force officer and retired business owner.
i have been carrying about 10 yrs.

it will seem weird when you first start, to be walking around armed.
soon (for me at least) it becomes simpler to carry all the time rather than try to alternate between two mindsets: i'm strapped/ i'm not.

for me, carrying is probably more a political or philosophical statement than actual need of protection. it is a physical token to remind me that i (and not the police or the government) am responsible for my own safety.

mostly, i don't hang around dangerous places. a major part of CHL training is conflict avoidance. this becomes more natural with the passage of time and with quadrannial CHL renewal classes.

so.. no, i have never had to draw my weapon for use against man or beast. but it is there if i need it. and i practice regularly enough to comfortable with the handling of it.

...then there are the zen aspects of target shooting, but that is a different subject...

as i ponder the sad events at your campus (and self-serving promotion thereof with which the press responded) i am reminded of the thought that AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY.

normally i carry a glock 26 in sidearmor inside-waist-band holster (with J hooks). sometimes a 5 shot snub 38spl in a crotch holster. sometimes, for fun, one or more of: 1911 45auto, 6 inch GP100 357mag, glock 31 357sig, 5 inch single action new vaquero 45colt, or something else.

no, i have never been asked to leave a place because i was carrying. just as i try to avoid places where there might be need to draw my weapon in self defense, i try to avoid places where self defense is not allowed. ...and, as has likely been pointed out already: 'that's why they call it CONCEALED.'

-shu

[joe_security]

Im very sorry for the kids at Virginia tech. As a licensed armed guard in my home state, i would have loved to have been on duty and armed when the shooter walked in. With regard to armed students on campus, im not sure this is best approach under all circumstances. Lets face it, college kids sometimes drink lots of beer and act up a bit here and there...if the guns can be locked up in some sort of gunvault, and not touched while the partying is in progress, im all for it....maybe colleges should hire armed guards or have more campus cops on the grounds....good luck with the CCW, i recommend the Sig P239 DAK in 9mm, SAS version if you can afford it...good concealment and safe to handle. Pass on the .40 /.357 Sig calibers until you get more experience.. Glock 26, not as flat as the Sig, keep it in a holster. Never loose in a pocket or back pack. Observe all safety procedures at all times...i bet teachers at all levels will have more than homework in the briefcases in the days ahead....

[Glockman17366]

I'm sure you've gotten a lot of responses to your questions. Now, I offer mine (which may repeat and emphasize ealier posts).
My responses are bolded

I have a questions for guys and gals here with concealed carry permits:
1. How often do you guys actually use it? There are like 400,000 CCW permit holders in Virginia, but do most of you guys actually carry regularly?
When I go out, I'll have a handgun..if not on my person, it'll be in my vehicle.
2. How often are you asked to leave the premises of a business because you're carrying?
Never
3. Do you have any stats on CCW and crime prevention, and have you or anyone you know had an experience with CCW and a crime or dangerous situation?
One time: it was Hot Rod week in York, PA. As my wife and I pulled into a resturant parking spot, a man and a woman started pounding on the hood on my car. They wanted the spot for a Hot Rod. I pulled my .38 out and had it in my hand, but out of sight. When the rod pulled up, there were up to 4 other persons in it ( a sedan).
Well, although I was pissed, an arguement over a parking spot isn't an imminent threat. We left and went to another resturant.
I'm pretty sure these folks had been drinking, although it was early in the day.
I'll also have the gun handy (out of my holster and easy to access) if I'm in an area I consider threatening.
4. What handgun do you carry concealed and/or use for personal defense?
Most often a .38 snubbie, sometimes a 9 mm Glock or Kahr.

Hope the answers you're getting help you...

[River Wraith]

1. How often do you guys actually use it? There are like 400,000 CCW permit holders in Virginia, but do most of you guys actually carry regularly?
I carry pretty much everyday at one time or another. I work at a high school and guns aren't even permitted in your car on the premises. As soon as I get home, if I'm going out, I have a gun on me.
2. How often are you asked to leave the premises of a business because you're carrying?I've never been asked to leave anywhere. I guess concealed is concealed and no one's ever noticed.
3. Do you have any stats on CCW and crime prevention, and have you or anyone you know had an experience with CCW and a crime or dangerous situation?I was walking from my parent's house to my house (about a quarter of a mile) a few years ago. A van pulled up and stopped right in from of me and the passenger back door slid open. There were three guys in the back and two got out. I don't know what their intention was, but I'm fairly certain it wasn't to wish me a good evening. I had my hand on my pistol. As they approached I pulled it out and had it pointed down. They stopped got back in the vehicle and left.
4. What handgun do you carry concealed and/or use for personal defense?I carry a Walther PPK/S or a Walther P-99. Columbia makes these excellent shorts called "Brewha" shorts, so called because you can carry two beers in the pocket. The pocket will also hold a Walther P-99 or Glock 19. I usually carry in a holster on a belt, but if that's not an option in the summertime, those shorts enable me to pocket carry.

[another okie]

1. How often do you guys actually use it? There are like 400,000 CCW permit holders in Virginia, but do most of you guys actually carry regularly?
2. How often are you asked to leave the premises of a business because you're carrying?
3. Do you have any stats on CCW and crime prevention, and have you or anyone you know had an experience with CCW and a crime or dangerous situation?
4. What handgun do you carry concealed and/or use for personal defense?

1. I carry whenever it's legal. I have never been forced to draw, but there have been times I was very glad I had the pistol with me.
2. Never. Concealed is concealed.
3. I know several people who have drawn and presented, none who have had to fire. If you want stats, see books by Kleck, Lott, and "Shooting Straight" by Wayne LaPierre. If you want mindset, "Principles of self defense" by Cooper and "In the Gravest Extreme" by Ayoob are excellent.
4. Taurus snubbie .38 or glock 26 9mm, depending on weather and clothes.

In Oklahoma it is both a crime and a violation of policy to carry on a college campus. The president can give permission, but you would still have to have a permit to conceal the gun.

[Legionnaire]

So Speed, what are you thinking at this point? You've gotten a lot of responses, and there are some clear patterns here. Have you made any decisions, or are you leaning in any particular direction?

[sevesteen]

1. How often do you guys actually use it? There are like 400,000 CCW permit holders in Virginia, but do most of you guys actually carry regularly?
The answers here aren't going to be representative, but (like most here) I carry wherever legal. I decided I'm not going to carry while drinking, but instead it turns out I don't drink while carrying.
2. How often are you asked to leave the premises of a business because you're carrying?
Never. Concealed means concealed. If a business is posted "no guns", in Ohio it would be illegal for me to enter armed. I obey the law, almost always by shopping at a competitor.

3. Do you have any stats on CCW and crime prevention, and have you or anyone you know had an experience with CCW and a crime or dangerous situation?
http://gunfacts.info/ has some of this, although mostly geared towards convincing someone who is against guns.
4. What handgun do you carry concealed and/or use for personal defense?
Usually a Springfield XD40 subcompact in a Crossbreed inside-the-waist holster, occasionally a Kel-Tec P3AT in a pocket holster. I wouldn't recommend the P3AT to a new shooter unless you've tried it first.

Nothing is more versatile than a .38 snubnose rated for +p ammo. Good beginner gun, lots of experts carry them. My next handgun is almost certainly going to be a S&W Airweight aluminum framed 5 shot.

Your carry gear is as important as the gun, especially if you are carrying something too big for pocket carry.

[makanut]

I've been carrying for 10 years, I had my hand on my gun once, fortunately I didn't have to draw. It was a really close call. I was nervous but prepared for a fight. I think the perp sensed this and went on to easier prey. I carry pretty much everywhere except at work. I'll be using my co-workers as cover if anything ever happens at my place of employment.

I'm a Virginia Native (I grew up on the Eastern Shore during the 1980's), so I have some friends back in Accomack County that are VT Alumni. I can't imagine what you're going through, I just hope VT can get this horrible incident behind them. It's going to be a rough ride for many. My condolonces to you and your classmates.

[ReadyontheRight]

Welcome to the board! I encourage you to get a good gun, some training and a CCW. I definitely discourage you from carrying where it's illegal.

Situational awareness (Do a Google search on "condition red" and "condition white"), a good little pocket knife, an escape route, self-defense training and another dose of situational awareness are good protection too - especially in places where you can't legally carry.

[Vern Humphrey]

If the OP is a VA Tech student, perhaps he would help us -- several of us are looking for a victim who had a CCW. We think the prohibition against carrying on campus left the victims defenseless and they should sue. A victim who had a CCW and was forced to leave his gun at home when going on campus would have standing to sue -- and several of us have pledged seed money to finance the suit.

[DawgFvr]

The reason why this travesty does not happen in Israeli schools...is that all Israeli teachers, instructors and professors carry weapons. I'd like to think our teachers could do that...except we have such wacko college professors. They might be more of a liability than the normal flavor of bad guy.

[Vern Humphrey]

Lets face it, college kids sometimes drink lots of beer and act up a bit here and there...
Let's face it -- these same college kids, if over 21 can get a Concealed Carry Permit under Virginia's liberalized CCW law. And if they were prone to misuse that permit, they would be misusing it off-campus.

But they aren't!

The reason why this travesty does not happen in Israeli schools...is that all Israeli teachers, instructors and professors carry weapons. I'd like to think our teachers could do that...except we have such wacko college professors. They might be more of a liability than the normal flavor of bad guy.

We need to find a victim with a CCW (or his family) and encourage them to sue the University for depriving them of a basic civil right and of the means of self-defense. Several of us have pledged financial support to put up seed money for the suit.

[Sevengunner]

I live in Northern Virginia in the Peoples Republic of Alexandria, and like most of my neighbors and colleagues have been hit hard by the VT tragedy. We all have friends whose children are Hokies and most of us are 2 degrees of separation or less from a victim's family. Hope you are healing.

Although I intended to carry when I got my permit, I have not done so, except when going to and from a range.

First: In this area there are really very few places where concealed carry is allowed, unless you're driving around in your car. Can't carry in DC (the place I feel the greatest need), government buildings, military bases, schools, most parks, Metro, establishments that serve alcohol, businesses that are "posted," etc. My day usually involves being in one or more of those places.

Second: Reading what the grown-ups on THR and TFL say when the issue of brandishing or using a weapon is discussed, is very sobering. You come to realizethat once you present or use your gun, your life is likely to be changed forever. As a result, while I hope I would not hesitate to respond to a clear and unavoidable threat, the scenarios in which I can see myself using a weapon are fewer than I previously believed.

Hope this helps.