Kodiak Express Double Rifle


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Soap
January 7, 2003, 01:55 PM
Does anyone own one of the Kodiak Express Double rifles? I've seen them listed in the Cabela's catalog. I've always wanted a double rifle but for a poor college kid they're a little out of my league right now. I could probably afford a very nice double rifle but only if I could drive it ;) I figure the Kodiak might be a good way to get into double rifle shooting. I'm looking specifically into the .72 caliber model.


Kodiak from Cabelas (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jhtml;jsessionid=C5IBJDL0EHCHMCWQNVDSFFQK0BWUQIV0?id=0006563210038a&navAction=push&navCount=1&indexId=cat20815&podId=0006563&catalogCode=IC&parentId=cat20815&parentType=index&rid=)

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denvas
January 8, 2003, 01:19 PM
This rifles are made by Pedorsoli of Italy. They were originally designed by Colonel Mike Powsnick of League City, Texas in the late 1970s. I have a double in .45-70 and have been very pleased with how it has stood up over the years. I have used it for hunting all sorts of game on several continents and am still here to tell you about it, despite a Australian water buffalo and African leopard who tried to make it otherwise. Very well made firearm with excellent wood to metal fit and lots of attention paid to the details. These are currently sold by Cabelas, Dixie Gun Works, NAvey Arms and others. I would check around and compare proces before I bought one. Good luck.

Soap
January 8, 2003, 05:06 PM
Thanks for the info Denvas!

bfoster
January 10, 2003, 10:06 PM
I have a Pedersoli double in .50 cal.

I had a devil of a time developing a load that it shoots well, but I finally came up with the answer.

It doesn't shoot round balls, common BP sabots or common BP conicals to anywhere close to the same point of impact. Yes, I could have used one of the two sights for each barrel, but that, in part defeats the purpose of a double rifle, at least to my way of thinking, because the second barrel wouldn't be instantly available.

Testing showed that this rifle had the characteristic property of regulating a double: bullet weight is critical. My rifle prefers bullets of 450 grains, and despite the listed twist of 1:48 shoots them well (actual twist appears to be 1: 39.4). Trouble is that there isn't a readily available m/l bullet of this weight available in my area. So I purchased Lyman mould # 515141, listes at 425 grains, nominal, with #2 alloy. It throws bullets alloyed from 1:160 at 451 grains, and produces very consistent bullets. The problems were, unfortunately, not solved in entirety at this point. The bullets were very difficult to load as they were about 0.515" in diameter, and the rifle has groove diameters of 0.5119 and 0.5121". OK, I built a swage to reduce bullet band diameter to 0.5120", and reduce the base diameter to 0.4980" (0.0005" below bore diameter for these tubes) for ease in loading, and decided to add a hollow point to the bullet while I was at it. The bullet was markedly easier to seat, but still too hard to load for a practical field rifle. So I ended up building a second swage to produce rifling grooves on the bullet, these are just 0.001" wider than the corresponding grooves of the barrel.

The second swage did the trick. The successful load is 80 grains of GOEX ffg, topped by a felt wad follwed by a pasteboard wad then the bullet. This combination is easy to load and accurate. It is capable of shooting grapefruit sized groups at 100 yards (off the bench), all that I feel that I should be able to do with my aging eyes.

The sights? Oh yes, I replaced the blade in one of the factory sights with an express type blade I made. Why? I didn't like having my view obscured by what is in effect, if not intention, a buckhorn rear sight. I simply don't use the other sight.

If you like a challange, you may like a Pedersoli. On the other hand, your rifle may shoot some sort of standard bullet well right out of the box.

Bob

Soap
January 14, 2003, 03:23 PM
Bob- Thanks for the comprehensive reply! If I pick one up, I'll be sure to reference to your post to help me out at the range. I figured that the rifles would have regulation issues.

Dan

Rampant_Colt
April 9, 2006, 05:25 PM
i did a search to see if there was any interest in this .72 double rifle and came up with this ancient thread - so sorry

Cabelas is still advertising this rifle here (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jhtml?id=0006563210038a&type=product&cmCat=cchart_trd_blk_pwdr_rfl)

if i get one of these rifles, i plan on fitting it up with musket caps in place of the #11 caps it comes with, and getting a .715 round ball mould as well.

as i was researching information on this rifle i came across this (http://www.chuckhawks.com/africa_muzzleloaders.htm) page. . . My only gripe is he decided to go with the .50 in place of the .72:confused: ???
this was quoted right from this page . . . look how powerful this beast is!
"Bullet weight is a fine thing, but frontal diameter is also important. I do not think that having a .50 caliber bullet that is two to three diameters long is nearly as effective as having a round ball of that same weight. Figure out the Taylor knockout value for yourself, using your own ballistics. Our .72 cal rifle has been chronographed at 2,026 fps using Hodgdon Triple Seven. So, the formula goes diameter x weight x velocity divided by 7000. So .715 x 555 x 2026 = 803967.45 divided by 7000 = 114.8. This number tells you how hard the projectile hits. That is a more telling ballistic formula than merely figuring out muzzle energy. As I recall, the above scenario equates out to just short of 5,000 pounds. Pretty potent in its own right."




Daniel Flory, did you ever get your rifle?

4v50 Gary
April 9, 2006, 05:56 PM
I have one I bought used from Bill of Oregon but I've never casted conicals for it to shoot. :o

Rampant_Colt
April 9, 2006, 06:03 PM
@ 4v50 Gary

what caliber is your Kodiak? - how do you like it?
is your rifle reliable with the #11 percussion caps?


please share your thoughts or any input you have...:)

Manyirons
April 9, 2006, 06:12 PM
'Smith owns one, let me shoot it, dont know what tha point is lessen ya hates someone ta loan it to!

Stocks ALL wrong fer me, too much pitch, tha thing goes straight up into mah cheek, bruises the holy havoc outta me! Shoulder too!

I calls it with big loads tha maosicist special!

Rampant_Colt
April 9, 2006, 06:28 PM
what's the matter many irons? too much gun for ya?:neener: lol

Evidently there's a version i can't find with a smooth bore doubling as a shotgun called the 'slug gun'. *edit* found it here (http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/ArmiCategoria.aspx?CategoriaId=245&lang=en) all the way on the bottom

But here is the Davide Pedersoli (http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/ArmiCategoria.aspx?CategoriaId=247&lang=en) site with some cool pics of the 'beast'
the one i want is at the bottom . . (what's the difference between the standard and 'safari express' model?) And i want spare 10 gauge barrels too!
i'm a glutton for punishment - lol

Manyirons
April 9, 2006, 06:44 PM
Yup. tha thing DOES hurt me! But i turn right around, buy a 10 guage sidexside hammers/caplock gun, replace tha cones with tha 209 primer replacement kind, have tha 'smith take tha barrels off at 18 1/2 inches load 'er all tha way up with 4 1/2 drams, one barrel 000 Buck, tha other a TIGHT patched solid ball.

Do it bark, bellow and HURT when ya touches it off? YUP!!!! Do it make whatever in front of it go away? YUP YUP YUP!!!!!

Sigh!

Rampant_Colt
April 9, 2006, 06:52 PM
it takes a real man to hack the barrels off of a nearly $1000 gun! - lol

when i get the 'beast' i will replace the cones with musket cap nipples (cones) and put a rubber buttpad on it.

Manyirons
April 9, 2006, 08:00 PM
Hey! Its only money! When ya wants something, price be damned!

4v50 Gary
April 9, 2006, 08:04 PM
My Kodiak is 58 caliber. Haven't shot it yet.

unspellable
April 11, 2006, 01:54 PM
I have a 54 and a 58, but haven't done enough shooting with either to have an opinion.

Mercerlake
May 2, 2006, 03:48 AM
I used to own a Kodiak in .54 caliber, never could get the barrlels to regulate with any load that I tried. Did not want to deal with two rear sights, so I sold it. Maschoist that I am I bought a .72 about three years ago from Cabelas. Was lucky, both barrels shoot within an two inches vertically at 100 yards. I found that with a cardboard wad over the powder and a felt wad .715" Rb, a .010" patch, and 140 gr of 777 or FFg Bp both barrels shoot into a 4-6 area at 100 yards. Velocity on my chronograph is ~1400 fps. I removed the factory sights front and rear, replacing them with the lowest express rear and an ivory bead up front. It is pure murder on bears in the berry-patches!

Rampant_Colt
May 8, 2006, 01:46 PM
@ Mercerlake - any pics? what type of bears?

MatthewVanitas
May 8, 2006, 03:29 PM
It is pure murder on bears in the berry-patches!
@ Mercerlake - any pics? what type of bears?



More importantly, what type of berries?



.

frosty
May 8, 2006, 09:19 PM
Years ago, when these guns first came out, I heard horror stories that the extreme reciol caused conicals in the other unfired barrel to move forward, causing a dangerous situation(they were only available in 58 cal. in those days...):eek:

Mercerlake
May 9, 2006, 02:42 AM
Berries? Bears? Both are black bears and berries. Also very close, this lead to the second barrel as cheap insurance. Most black bears run off unless you've done something foolish, like wounding him. Also they tend to run the direction they are looking when they get hit, so it helps to break them down real good. Big Round balls work great up close. Have rugs and skins, will try to get pictures posted. Biggest I've taken so far is a black that squared 7' 4" and a cinnamon at 6'8".

Mercerlake
May 9, 2006, 03:02 AM
Recoil with slugs/conicals will cause the slug in the clean unfired barrel to slip. Tried wrapping the slug with dental floss to tighten them, also even PP some, it worked. PRb is simpler. That was one of the reasons that I passed the earlier .54 on to someone else. Big Round balls penetrate all the way through the bear or elk for that matter, I've broken a lot of big bones, not mine, on bear/elk and they still penetrate. Slugs will generally out penetrate a Rb of the same caliber, but once they exit it's wasted penetration. It's a matter of being close enough for the Rb to be effective, also you are limited by the open sights, so slugs aren't an advantage to me. Also regulating the barrels is simplified with PRb.

Steve Lee Parsons
May 19, 2006, 04:30 PM
Just broke in my new Kodiak MK IV. What a piece of machinery ! Probably the best value in a cartridge Double Rifle ever. Tight 3 inch groups in the 10 ring. Mild recoil. Less than my 12 gauge, and much less than my 30-30 Winchester Carbine. Over 10 pounds of Italian steel helps, as does the thick butt pad. Great looking firearm. You can cock both hammers without fear of a double-bang. One reason these were so popular is that no rifle could get off two shots as quick. Just make sure you hit the mark. Great finish and balance. And, the reaction at the range when you open the case and put it together. Priceless !

Steverenos
October 4, 2006, 03:41 PM
I've got a 58 x 58, love load up both barrels and blast away all day at the range. Love the looks of the rifle great shooter. Love the response from fellow shooters, what kind of canon you got there? Shoots good group2.5 - 3 inches at 75yds. Don't much care for the exhaust from the left barrel though. Wife shots it as well and loves it but not the powder burn on the left forearm, we live in florida it is 85-90 degrees in the shade when we shoot.

unspellable
October 4, 2006, 05:32 PM
It soon taught me to wear a long sleeved shirt. Also taught me why they have right and left hand locks on single barreled cap locks.

Rampant_Colt
October 10, 2006, 03:38 PM
It soon taught me to wear a long sleeved shirt. Also taught me why they have right and left hand locks on single barreled cap locks.


I still have cap fragments in my wrist from shooting my friends .58 Kodiak when i was a kid! This was approximately 25 years ago..

I ended up buying an AR15 instead of the .72 for variety of reasons.
Anyone notice the price increase of these at Cabelas?

Car Knocker
October 10, 2006, 04:14 PM
Anyone notice the price increase of these at Cabelas?
I believe the dollar dropped against the euro a few months ago.

Plastic Cowboy
October 10, 2006, 05:45 PM
So how many grains of powder do ya use to load a .72 cal rifle up good and stiff?? And how much does the bullet weigh??

That thing must be earth shattering when you light it off....both barrels
HOLY CRAP!!!:what:

Plink
October 10, 2006, 06:07 PM
I shot a fellers .72 earlier this summer. If memory serves, the ball weighs about 550 grains and I think we used 135 grains FFG as the load. It laid a thump on my shoulder just about as hard as the one it laid on the target! Very fun gun though. Didn't have a chance to work loads down to see what it's best accuracy was, but even at those high end loads, it wasn't shooting too bad. I want one! :)

Erik Johnson
December 13, 2007, 02:52 PM
I am having a heck of a time with accuracy AND regulation of my Pedersoli .54 double. I am hoping somebody has gone down this road and can help me with a load that will work. I'm looking for a deer hunting load and have tried roundballs and sabots. Any suggestions? If possible I'd like to get both barrels to be able to hit the same deer at 50 yards. So far I have no confidence with accuracy from this gun.

Pancho
December 13, 2007, 05:45 PM
Always wanted a Pedersoli express when they first came out but could never quite afford it. CVA came out with a 50 cal. double about the same time and I found, about 8 years ago, a factory second at Friendship Ind. from the CVA booth for $80. Really like the gun but I've also have had a problem getting it to group. The problem is that the gun, according to the owners manual, is set up to converge at 100 yards. Where I hunt deer there is no 100 yard shots too much brush and too rough a terrain. The tightest group I can compromise with the single blade rear sight is 10" at 50 yards. I can either install Pedersoli 2 blade rear sights or hang it on the wall.

Pancho
December 13, 2007, 05:48 PM
A friend of mine who has a lot more money than I collects original late 19th and early 20th century double rifles. They all have an interesting 3 folding blade rear sight that is not adjustable for windage or elevation. Does anyone know how these were sighted in?

Car Knocker
December 13, 2007, 08:10 PM
Erik Johnson:

This link to the Pedersoli site leads to several suggested loads for the Kodiak (about the third page in): http://davidepedersoli.com/pdf/BlackPowderLoads.pdf

dogrunner
December 13, 2007, 08:56 PM
Eric Johnson:


I have a .50 I've owned for probably 15 years and always had good results with it. I found it shot so well with the maxi conicals that I've never bothered to try anything else. My rifle's bbls using 90 grains of BP shoots extremely good groups at 75 yards and both are still on paper at 100 and in the black of a standard 25 yard pistol bull.

I'd note that I have never had to resort to using both rear sights, in fact I usually just sight over the folded leaves with the results above! Killed a nice hog in Florida last Oct. One shot drop!

kawhead71
December 13, 2007, 10:31 PM
Someone was trading one of the .72's in at my place of employment the other day. When I asked him why he was returning it he said, "I'd rather be in front of it than behind it when it goes off!" I was thinking about scooping it up. It's really a gorgeous piece, and the employee discount is pretty sweet on the used stuff.

GunTech
December 13, 2007, 10:35 PM
Anyone ever seen a 9.3x74R Kodiak?

Erik Johnson
December 14, 2007, 01:25 PM
Are you using a flat based maxi right on top of the powder? Ever try a minie?

Pancho
December 14, 2007, 03:12 PM
OK, I give up. Flat out where can I get parts for a Kodiak double rifle? I've covered the web and only found a site that speaks italian only.

dogrunner
December 14, 2007, 09:51 PM
Hey Eric!

I'm seating directly on the charge itself, lubing with TC bore butter. I cast my own and select only the most uniform for hunting. Don't really do anything special, I was really surprised to read your comments about getting your gun to group....Also, never have tried minis, I do have a couple of Lee's REAL moulds I picked up in a trade & never have used, but as I said the maxi's have performed so good I just havent explored much further.

I'd suggest you try various charges, lubes and if you've access to some, different powders. It may be I just got lucky with my gun, but I have gotta believe that rifle of yours will shoot, you just have to figure out the combination.

dogrunner
December 14, 2007, 09:52 PM
Poncho: Call Dixie in Union City, Tenn. I believe they carry what you're looking for.

Pancho
December 16, 2007, 08:11 PM
Dogrunner, Duh! sometimes I get lost in this forest called the internet and think that there is nothing I can't find on it. I will do as you suggest.

Pancho
December 19, 2007, 03:12 PM
I finally found the cost and availability of sights for the Kodiak double and If you own a Kodiak you better take care of those sights. The front sight is $49 and the rear sight is $118!

101AirborneE8
February 14, 2008, 08:20 PM
My wife bought me a .50 Cal Kodiak way back in 1978 (the same day that I quit a construction job, it was waiting on the dinner table; cost $500.00 back then, and we didn't have the extra money).

It has a short range leaf and a long range leaf for both regulated barrels.

Anyway, it shot patched round balls well with about 100 grains of FFG.

The best load that I found was using a Maxi-Ball with 78 grains of FFG lubed with Blue & Gray Spit-Ball. I use a Lee powder dipper that works out to 2 measures = 78 grains.

Over top of the powder, I throw half the volume (1 measure) of yellow corn meal. This acts as a gas seal for the powder, keeps the lube from soaking into the powder, and kind-of "scrubs" the barrel of fowling between shots.

At 100 yards, alternating barrels, it will group less than 4 inches, using the same sight.

I've made "speed loaders" by taping two 20-gauge hulls together. In 1 hull, I put the FFG, then plug it with a plastic wad with a pull-string through the wad. In the other hull, I put the corn meal, then the wad, and the lubed Maxi-Ball sitting inside the sleeve of that plastic wad (again, I try to keep the lubed bullet away from the powder).

It's put venison on the table most years that I took it out.

101AirborneE8
February 14, 2008, 10:42 PM
And insofar as penetration with 78 grains of FFG.

One of the first deer that I shot with it was a good-sized Wisconsin whitetail buck. I put the shot right where I wanted, behind the shoulder.

Anyway, when we were skinning it, the Maxi-Ball fell onto the floor of our machine shed. It was laying just under the hide after penetrating the muscle mass of the deer. To me, that's about a perfect shed of energy.

Now if your B.S. meter is running about 9.7, I understand. But it happened.

At first, I thought that the projectile fell out of the body cavity of the field-dressed deer. But on closer examination, I saw that there was a bullet hole in the muscle in the buck's right shoulder, but no hole in the hide.

bfoster
April 8, 2008, 01:55 AM
Removed

Cosmoline
April 11, 2008, 02:56 AM
Thanks for reviving this one, though. I can use the info. Weather permitting I'm going to be posting the very first Kodiak youtube vids this weekend. Or it may snow another foot.

Stoney
April 12, 2008, 10:12 AM
I've posted this before, but since the thread came back, I'll do it again. Here are some pics of my .72 caliber conicals from a custom made mold. It's a very stable bullet out to 100 yards, which is a far as I've shot it out of my .72 caliber Kodiak. My load is 100 to 130 grains of Goex FFG. At 130 grains recoil is like a 12 guage magnum.
The photo shows the size compared to a .58 caliber REAL bullet.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c119/pstone001/100_2458.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c119/pstone001/100_2454.jpg

Cosmoline
April 12, 2008, 02:52 PM
Lordy!

Rampant_Colt
April 14, 2008, 11:53 PM
I still don't have a Kodiak rifle :(
They're so expensive now

holy smokes those are some BIG slugs!

(this thread has some long legs!)

Pancho
April 17, 2008, 01:34 AM
101airborne, What was the range that you took the deer? If the bullet stayed in the deer all of the bullet's energy was expended on the deer. What effect did the shot have on the deer? Did it knock it down?

101AirborneE8
April 29, 2008, 10:37 PM
Sorry 'bout the delay in answering.

He was less than 10 yards away.

He was so close to me that I didn't dare move.

He stopped alongside the same fenceline that I was standing on and he looked to the left & right, and I knew that he was going to jump it, so I quietly cocked the hammer for the front trigger. So when he took the leap, I figured "You're not going to change direction now."

So as he was going over the fence, I took the shot. His front legs hit the ground and he crumpled right there. He didn't take 1 step.

MVRay
March 14, 2009, 12:24 PM
Hey guys! My mean ole wife bought me a Pedersoli Double .58 for Christmas, and imagine my surprise at finding the group.
I haven't shot it yet, I took it to my place in Amarillo New Years, but showed up with musket caps...egggh:banghead:
I have Maxi, Mini, and round balls for her (I also have a three band Enfield I feed the Mini's to) and am looking forward to trying her out. I have a jug of Pryodex and a BP measure to load her with, but would love some suggestions on loads

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