Ted Nugent and Paul Helmke on Glen Beck


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Redneck with a 40
April 18, 2007, 12:22 AM
Ted Nugent was introduced first. I really like him, he is a first class guy. Ted basically said "when are we going to learn that victim dis-armament zones do not work? He said, how many episodes like this will it take? He also stated that some people in our society refuse to aknowledge that guns in the hands of the good guys is a good thing. I thought he made a very effective argument. The last point he made was this; there are hundreds of millions of firearms in the hands of good citizens that will never be used in a crime.

Paul Helmke was next, his argument is non-sensical. He basically said that since disturbed individuals can get guns so easily, we need to continue to enforce "gun free zones".:barf: :barf: He also implied that citizens are incompetant with guns, they only make a bad situation worse.:barf: :barf: I don't know about you, but if some lunatic is on a shooting rampage, I'll hedge my bets on a fellow citizen with a gun! What's the alternative? 32 people dead? Is this the price we are supposed to be willing to pay, to justify gun control?:barf: :barf: Paul still believes "victim disarmament zones" are the way to go.:barf:

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JAMES77257
April 18, 2007, 12:34 AM
I think it was crappy that they didn't let Ted reply to Pauls comments.

Anotherguy
April 18, 2007, 01:37 AM
I saw that too. I also would have preferred Nugent had the last word instead of Helmke. Nonetheless, after Ted's say, Helmke came off sounding like a babbling teenager trying to debate a scholar simply because what Ted said is the truth and Helmke had nothing truthful to follow it up with.
On the Dennis Miller radio show today, Helmke was on first, spouting his propoganda and Nugent, although emotional, disputed every point Helmke made. It was very satisfying to listen to.

captaincaveman
April 18, 2007, 02:56 AM
I was very impressed with the way Uncle Ted handled himself. The Brady guy didn't look so good. He would have sounded better arguing that the sky is orange. Teds arguments, and what all of us have been saying for a long time, are just so full of common sense that there really is no intelligent way to debate it. But they keep trying, and the public keeps believing it. How many more time will this have to happen before people finally get it?:cuss:

Josh

Soybomb
April 18, 2007, 04:17 AM
While Ted Nugent may be a pro-gun guy, he isn't the most eloquent spokesman we have. To me it seems like someone is seriously stacking the deck when one side is argued by the president of the largest anti-gun campaign in the US, and the other side is left to be defended by a 60 year old rock star who likes gun.

captaincaveman
April 18, 2007, 04:57 AM
stacked deck or not, that "president of the largest anti-gun campaign in the US" was grasping at straws, and The Nuge made some very good, very real points

Josh

SAG0282
April 18, 2007, 06:25 AM
and the other side is left to be defended by a 60 year old rock star who likes gun.



More accurately, The Nuge is a well-known celebrity with widespead appeal, good name recognition, and is even a LEO. Your description is far too simplistic and we should be happy to have him on our side.

gunsmith
April 18, 2007, 06:30 AM
and I like him.

Kaylee
April 18, 2007, 08:49 AM
I don't think the deck was intentionally stacked - the same fill in was on the previous night really pushing CCW, and Glenn himself is strongly pro RKBA. They prolly just figured ol' Ted could handle himself regardless. :)

Autolycus
April 18, 2007, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by Sago282:
More accurately, The Nuge is a well-known celebrity with widespead appeal, good name recognition, and is even a LEO. Your description is far too simplistic and we should be happy to have him on our side.

Ted is a LEO but he is not really practicing last I checked. He also has a very spotty record when it comes to his personal life. I dislike Ted because he speaks with his emotions most of the time and comes across as a little to crude for my tastes. As well as I find him to be a hypocrite.

I would rather someone like Tom Selleck was debated.

Sistema1927
April 18, 2007, 10:43 AM
Tom Greham correctly described Ted this past weekend as the "Energizer Bunny" of the RKBA crowd. If some here don't find Ted to be the most articulate spokesman, or think him a hypocrite, what are they doing that is better?

Sheesh, we not only shoot our own, we eat them. :fire:

Tim James
April 18, 2007, 10:49 AM
He was on Dennis Miller and Beck's show? Are these guys going to do a nationwide tour together or something? :rolleyes: :)

nico
April 18, 2007, 11:07 AM
Tim, I don't particularly like seeing the same two guys go over the same points on every show either, but it's better than Helmke being given free reign to spout his BS wherever he wants.

Tim James
April 18, 2007, 11:21 AM
nico, that's fine, I just wonder if they had a little agreement to do the shows together, or if both shows independently thought they would be good spokesmen for a sensational debate to boost ratings. It's just kind of weird that they would both do 2 shows.

nico
April 18, 2007, 11:58 AM
who knows. . . Everyone knows Helmke will be in front of every camera he can find after something like this. Maybe Nugent decided to solicit the media the way the gun grabbers have. I don't think he's the greatest representative of gun owners out there; I've seen him do a few things that I think make us look bad. But, he has a level of charisma that gets attention and he has been very eloquent in the last couple days from what I've seen. I don't think him going out there and making Helmke look like the empty suit he is is doing us a disservice.

Outlaw Man
April 18, 2007, 03:51 PM
Sheesh, we not only shoot our own, we eat them.
"Kill it and Grill it" in Ted's words. :D

I've seen Ted let the antis push him a little too far a few times, but what he said and the way he acted on Dennis Miller's show (I didn't see Beck's) did absolutely nothing negative. He handled himself very well. I don't think Selleck (and I really like him, too) or anyone else could have handled it better.

SoCalShooter
April 18, 2007, 06:20 PM
To bad Uncle Ted did not get to respond more.

SSTHitman
April 18, 2007, 06:57 PM
Is there audio or video of this someplace?

feedthehogs
April 18, 2007, 07:37 PM
If some here don't find Ted to be the most articulate spokesman, or think him a hypocrite, what are they doing that is better

There are lots of people working hard everyday for RKBA but don't get the press cause they aren't a USDA grade A nut job who learned a few simple guitar chords and stretched out one or two songs into a career and swings across stage in a loin cloth.

The RKBA movement needs Ted Nugent as a spokeman just like blacks need Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson.

All three are show boaters who's only interest is putting the spotlight on themselves.

All three are a hugh detriment to the supposed causes they serve.

Soybomb
April 18, 2007, 11:14 PM
If some here don't find Ted to be the most articulate spokesman, or think him a hypocrite, what are they doing that is better?
I take new people shooting, write letters, call my reps and in short do whatever I can. If you can get me on tv in nugent's place I'd certainly step up although I'd recommend far better spokesmen than myself or the nuge. He has celebrity that I don't have, that doesn't mean I think he speaks well for us.

I want the rkba crowd to lose thedumb redneck image that seems to plague it. To get a quick idea of how I think Nugent just buries us further in this lets just pull the quote from him off his wikipedia entry. It says he said this at the 2005 NRA conference:
"Remember the Alamo! Shoot 'em! To show you how radical I am, I want carjackers dead. I want rapists dead. I want burglars dead. I want child molesters dead. I want the bad guys dead. No court case. No parole. No early release. I want 'em dead. Get a gun and when they attack you, shoot 'em."

Ymmv, but I think we make more progress with a less in your face representative. He very well may be a great supporter of the 2nd amendment, but I don't think our best spokesman is someone whose nickname includes the word madman.

captaincaveman
April 19, 2007, 01:39 AM
I couldnt find audio or video of the show but here's a transcript

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0704/17/gb.01.html


SMERCONISH: The Virginia Tech massacre is almost certain to reignite the debate about our gun laws. Cho Seung-Hui was found with a backpack containing a receipt for a Glock .9-millimeter pistol that he bought in March. His fingerprints were also found on two handguns used in the rampage, while the serial numbers on the weapons had been filed off.

I`m joined by Ted Nugent, legendary entertainer, as well as outspoken sportsman and gun advocate.

Ted, a lot of folks wonder, what does Ted Nugent think as he reacts to a tragedy such as this?

TED NUGENT, MUSICIAN: Well, I think with the same heart-and-soul logic that America joins you today with a grieving and shattered heart, Michael.

The Nugent family is praying as hard as we have ever prayed for the families, and equally so for the pulse of America that is allowing this mind-set that somehow gun-free zones, with irrefutable evidence that all these tragedies, all these mass shootings have occurred across the board in gun-free zones.

Yet, there are still those amongst those who desire the very system of a gun-free zone that facilitates and enables this kind of unstoppable slaughter.

And my stomach is absolutely sickened right now. I`m spending a lot of time with my children, with the local schools and local law enforcement, as I have, following every tragedy, and, obviously, just as a concerned parent, to make sure that the tactics, the level of awareness, the observation increase and upgrade is taking place in my neighborhoods. And I encourage all parents to be that involved and demand an upgrade, based on the evidence that we have now.

SMERCONISH: In other words, Ted Nugent says there will be those who will say this is exhibit A now as to why there needs to be increased gun regulation. And your reply is, indeed, there was gun regulation on the Virginia Tech campus. It was a gun-free zone. And, if you can`t have safety there, then it tells you something.

NUGENT: And, again, Michael, you know, I`m just a guitar player, but I like to pay attention to my wonderful country. And the evidence is unlimited, non-stop, irrefutable once again across this country.

In Oregon, where a Columbine tragedy was unfolding, it was a student who went to his truck and got a .22 squirrel rifle and stopped the mass murder. It was a citizen, an off-duty cop in Salt Lake City, that stopped an armed monster from killing citizens at random. He stopped it.

It was just up the road from Virginia Tech where an Appalachia law school, students once again retrieved legally owned firearms and stopped an armed assault. Who is not getting this information? Who is pretending this isn`t how it works? Those are the people I`m really angry at.

SMERCONISH: Ted, this morning, on my radio program -- and I knew this comment was coming -- and you have heard it before -- more than one individual said to me, why does someone need a .9-millimeter Glock? That N-word, need, would you respond to that?

NUGENT: Well, Michael, there are hundreds of millions -- and I hope people will write this down some day -- hundreds of millions of law-abiding American families with hundreds of millions of lawfully owned guns, none of which are going to be used in violence, crime or accident.

The sheer numbers of zeros following the decimal point in the percentage of guns used in crime is beyond inconsequential. That does not compromise or negate the heartbreaking tragedy of any kind of accident, any kind of violent crime.

But when will we learn that, at Luby`s cafeteria, at Pearl, Mississippi, at the pizza parlor in New York City, where Mayor Bloomberg thought it was reasonable gun control to disarm cops? That`s how insane this has gotten. There`s been quite a debate at Virginia Tech, where lawfully possessed firearms and gun owners with lawfully procured government scrutinized concealed weapons permits are forbidden to use those concealed weapons permits on the Virginia Tech grounds.

Does anybody join me in realizing that 32 people were killed because the killer wasn`t stopped? I don`t want to come off like I know all the answers. But, again, the evidence is overwhelming. If a good guy with a gun can stop evil crime and tragedy so often, why can`t we apply that policy instead of Sarah Brady`s gun-free zone policy?

SMERCONISH: Hey, Nuge, thank you.

I`m joined now by Paul Helmke. He is the president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

Thank you, sir, for being here.

Respond to what you have just heard from Ted Nugent.

PAUL HELMKE, PRESIDENT, BRADY CAMPAIGN TO PREVENT GUN VIOLENCE: It`s obvious, after yesterday`s tragedy, that what we`re doing now in this country is not working. And there`s a lot of reasons it doesn`t work.

And maybe what Nuge is suggesting is something that we should debate in this country. Actually, when most academicians look at it, they conclude that homes that have a gun, communities that have -- I mean, homes that have more guns, communities that have more guns, states that have more guns, and countries that have more guns end up with more violence.

Part of the problem is, is these gun-free zones, they are not working either, because it`s so easy to walk out of that zone and pick up that .9- millimeter. And, now that we don`t have restrictions on the size of the clips that this individual can get, you can get the clip that is going to fire off those shots.

I don`t know how good of a shot Nuge is, but I know that, when I was a mayor, and I was dealing with my police department in Fort Wayne, Indiana, when someone got a jump on somebody, even if you`re a trained officer, it`s tough to respond quickly and wisely.

And you can be sitting in a classroom with 30 people, and, if they`re firing a semiautomatic, and you can get off 30 rounds in 30 seconds, somebody is going to get killed. I would like to stop those guns from getting into the hands of those people and into those schools and into those killing situations in the first place.

If we can prevent this from starting, then we don`t need to worry about who is going to be taking the last shot.

SMERCONISH: But, Paul, doesn`t -- doesn`t Nuge have a point when he says that one of the ironies here is that, indeed, this occurred in a gun- free zone? And doesn`t it raise the issue that these laws that we put on the books, that they affect those who are law-abiding; and the individual, the deranged individual who is out there, and is hell-bent on killing folks doesn`t care what the law is and somehow is going to get that weapon?

HELMKE: It`s -- when people want to break laws, they`re going to break laws. Most lawbreakers don`t break every law, because they know they are more likely to get caught. So, they follow the law in some things.

When we had laws that said you couldn`t sell clips with more than 10 rounds, people weren`t buying clips with more than 10 rounds very easily. This morning, I went on a web page and I found a clip with 33 rounds that I could buy for the gun that was used here for under $30.

That`s the sort of problems we`re having. We make it too easy to get this kind of weaponry into our communities. It`s great to talk about the hypothetical situation where Superman, Nuge, whoever -- that`s great -- responds to the guy that`s already standing in the doorway and already shooting.

But, in real life, what happens is, somebody loses that gun; somebody misuses that gun; somebody gets drunk; somebody gets angry; somebody makes a mistake. And you end up -- and you end up with people that are dead or injured.

SMERCONISH: Hey, Paul, thank you for being with us. We appreciate having both sides represented.

And we will be right back in just a moment.

HELMKE: Thank you.

fiveoboy01
April 19, 2007, 05:02 AM
Why such the focus on the 33-rd mags by the antis?

OK, I do know the question, it's to scare the sheep...

But why don't people educate themselves? They'd realize that it takes 1 or 2 seconds to drop a mag and reload, and it wouldn't have made a bit of difference here if the shooter had a 10 round mag or a 200 round drum.

Igloodude
April 19, 2007, 08:59 AM
Lordy lordy, this is going in my sig (on forums where the issue is actually in question):

"Part of the problem is, is these gun-free zones, they are not working either, because it`s so easy to walk out of that zone and pick up that .9- millimeter." - Paul Helmke, President of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

If even he admits that, why the hell haven't they been eliminated already? :scrutiny:

Kaylee
April 19, 2007, 09:05 AM
Why such the focus on the 33-rd mags by the antis?


Because they can't go after handguns - even semi-autos - generally without alienating a much higher percentage of people than they already have. I'm sure once it came out the guy was using pistols and not a WASR or suchlike there was much weeping and gnashing of teeth over that brady headquarters. Tha magazine focus is just what they can salvage... something that looks kinda scary on the news, and that not enough people have to make it too dangerous to demonize.

-K

Tim James
April 19, 2007, 09:11 AM
If even he admits that, why the hell haven't they been eliminated already?Because the goal is a world-wide gun free zone. Then all the gun laws will work perfectly.

DualBerettas
April 21, 2007, 01:34 AM
did the shooter even have 33rd mags...?

DB

captaincaveman
April 21, 2007, 01:48 AM
did the shooter even have 33rd mags...?

DB

That's what I'm hearing. whether he did or not, to much emphasis is being placed on mag size. 33 or 15 wouldn't have mattered. Let's be honest, how long does it really take to drop a clip and load another one:banghead:

Josh

outerlimit
April 21, 2007, 02:59 AM
Says on CNN "up to 225 bullets fired during deadly rampage", so it sounds like he probably had at least five G18 magazines, maybe a few more.

Ted Nugent has a good write-up on the front page of CNN, I was really surprised to see that. I found alot of the emailed comments, whether they were supporting or detracting the article somewhat naive though.

Link:
Nugent: Gun-free zones are recipe for disaster (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/19/commentary.nugent/index.htm)

ptmmatssc
April 21, 2007, 10:24 AM
And maybe what Nuge is suggesting is something that we should debate in this country. Actually, when most academicians look at it, they conclude that homes that have a gun, communities that have -- I mean, homes that have more guns, communities that have more guns, states that have more guns, and countries that have more guns end up with more violence.

People need to call BS with this guy . If this was the case , my state would be overflowing with gun crime , yet it's not . Like to see him explain away things like this .

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288


But, in real life, what happens is, somebody loses that gun; somebody misuses that gun; somebody gets drunk; somebody gets angry; somebody makes a mistake. And you end up -- and you end up with people that are dead or injured.

Maybe this guy should realize that the woman who ran over her cheating husband(killing him ) and the spurned lover of my aunt that beat her to death with a pipe didn't use or need guns to do the job . And how many people "lose" guns? is there some epidemic of gun owners losing guns that I am unaware of?

Man people like this just make me :barf:

trondossa17
April 21, 2007, 10:44 AM
If anyone comes up with a video link for this, please send along.

I've already linked one of Nugent's articles, any of the pro-safety / pro-rights arguments I can add to the web site help. ;)

http://leveron.com/john/rights/

thesearcher
April 21, 2007, 11:12 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/19/commentary.nugent/index.html
the cnn nugent commentary has a 'counter' commentary from one Tom Plate:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/18/commentary.plate/index.html

here is the title of the commentary:
Plate: Let's lay down our right to bear arms

:fire: :fire: :fire: :cuss: oh that makes my american blood boil. like nugent touched upon, i was born a free man with inherent rights, one of the self-preservation. i will not give up my rights so that other people may feel safe. we need to draw a line in the sand on this issue.

another great quote:
Our famous Constitution, about which many of us are generally so proud, enshrines -- along with the right to freedom of speech, press, religion and assembly -- the right to own guns. That's an apples and oranges list if there ever was one.

YES tom, when you are drafting a list of necessary items for the birth of a free country odds are you will need the apples and the oranges. are any of the 'apples' (free speech, press, religion, assembly) going to save or defend you against enemies from aboard or within??

another great one:
Because I'm anything but a James Bond type, I quickly complied with all of his requests. Perhaps because of my rapid response (it is called surrender), he chose not to shoot me; but he just as easily could have. What was to stop him?
wishful thinking at best tom.

then you read the little comments below the article and fearfully and regretfully must acknowledge that some people actually agree with him.

from the comments:
I would just add one more thing to Mr. Plate's well thought-out commentary. The constitution stipulates that the right to bear arms is for the purpose of "maintaining a standing militia." Which, in modern terms, outside of Iraq and the Golan Heights, refers to maintaining a national guard. It does not say that every man, woman and child has the right to carry around a handgun, as the NRA would have you believe.

i was literally yelling at the monitor when i read that. how can someone pack so much stupid in so small an area? if they were doing it tongue in cheek i would compliment them on their creativity.

alucard0822
April 21, 2007, 11:53 AM
Says on CNN "up to 225 bullets fired during deadly rampage", so it sounds like he probably had at least five G18 magazines, maybe a few more.
They had a report on reuters yahoo news yesterday from the blacksburg PD 17 mags total, 8X10rd p22 mags+1X33rd glock mags+8X17rd glock mags=249 total, of those 80 .22LR, 168 9mm, not all rounds were fired

I belive that anyone who will stand up for our rights ought to be supported no matter how "eloquent" they are. the anti-s dont care if Rosie odonell makes a fool of herself for their cause, they even encourage her, Most of us are very intelligent diverse people, who belive in a cause, some just put a little less sugar on their statements.

trondossa17
April 22, 2007, 11:36 PM
Anyone have a link to the interview video with Mssrs. Helmke and Nugent? Would love to post it on the links and poster page below

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