a XTP .44 mag ddbl cannelure conundrum


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SonO
April 18, 2007, 02:59 PM
im tryin to find info on crimping in the rear/bottom cannelure with a Hornady .44mag 300gr HP/XTP...ive got some boxes of these bullets & not to sure...i have the .44mag TAURUS RAGING BULL its cyln length is 1,760" & crimping in the rear of that bullet will give me about 1,735..."OAL or so...i dont want no squibs & i dont want to push the bullet so fast that it expands w/o much penetration...i was thinking of using the do not exceed load(LEE & Hodgdon...19.0grs/@1,600"OAL or better) ...to start~using the rear/bottom cannelure(1,735") does this sound about right ?...ive been looking everywhere & cant find much...please help...using H110....

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mavracer
April 18, 2007, 07:58 PM
mind that this info is worth what you paid for it.you will get in more trouble with h110/ww296 with air space than an over load.I'm not sure you can put enough h110 and still seat bullet to blow up a strong gun like Raging bull or a ruger redhawk. I have used 20.5 grns with seirra 300 which only has one crimp groove don't remeber exactily what OAL was but it has to be close to your 1.735" figure as they are much longer than my 240 load. I have shot all the sierras up and switched to a hard cast 300 with 19 grns of 296 OAL 1.600 chronos 1130 out of 4" tracker:what: you may ck and see if you can find data for sierra they should list OAL and start charge

Ol` Joe
April 18, 2007, 08:11 PM
Hornadies manual says seat `em to 1.60" so does Hodgdon in their 2006 magazine manual. Sounds like Lee agrees also, I`d stay with that COL myself. (44 mag - 300 gr XTP)

CZ57
April 18, 2007, 08:32 PM
That means the top crimp groove. The problem you'll have by crimping in the lower groove is that with the same powder charge, velocity will be lower and your not likely to find pressure tested data for the longer OACL loads. The real intent here is that Hornady also wants to make this a practical bullet for both handgun and rifle reloads, which naturally would include Thompson handcannons.;)

SonO
April 19, 2007, 11:44 AM
BTW just in case im a newbie here but ive been lookin it over "great place"...thnx very much all of you for your imput...mavracer you have hit right about where i was lookin on this...i can +up the load but was looking for a starting load from where to work up from...dont want to low of pressure but i dont want the projectile to go flat as soon as it hits...what i do want is to get as much penetration as i can get before all out expansion ya know(the ole devastating wound channel)& i might be a little superficial here but i want a +P round that looks like a +P round & acts likes one~whitetails the name of the game & here in NY we have lots of hills...river bottom...lake & farm country...lots of thick woods & cover...so im not sure i'll even scope my TRB~yet...yep sierra load data for their 300 grainer sounds like a good place to start & it looks like their cannelure is right about the same as the bottom cannelure on the Hndy 300 grainer XTP...i been sitting here waiting for other opinions(rather be & feel safe)& you guys are GREAT~does ease my mind quite a bit...so i guess i can start trimmin some brass now & find me a good load to start with~try a few & go from there...gotta get me a chrono asap...anyway you guys are great & thnx for your help & quick replies...im still workin on figuring this forum out~will get there...thnx again.
now only if the wife hadnt got me 150~ 300g XTP's i probably woulda got sierra's...oooh well next in line lol

Idano
April 19, 2007, 12:21 PM
SonO,

Unless you are dead set on the 300 grain HP XTP I would recommend taking a look at the 240 grain especially if you are just hunting deer. I can vouch for the penetration of the 240 gr HP on black bear. I took one five seasons ago at 30 yards, it was suppose to have been a front cavity shot but he dropped his head as he was running toward me and the bullet caught him in the snout just above the left nostril and dropped him in his tracks. The bullet shattered his lower jaw and traveled down his neck where it clipped his heart, left lung, and intestines before exiting behind the rib cage. By the way my load is a 240 grain HP driven by 23.4 grains of H110 at a velocity of 1350 fps out of Colt Anaconda with a 7" barrel.

SonO
April 19, 2007, 02:01 PM
yep...ive always shot 240's outa my .44's ~got around 200/XTP's loaded now...always been a good round & dang accurate too out my RSBH/SS w/10in barrel...but theres something about me & the big ole heavy bullets (love my .45-70's) ~maybe i just like the way they go SMACK !...anyway way thats why i got this big ole heavy REV.(TAURUS RB) & if the Garrett 310g hammerheads can go thru it i should be able to find a happy medium for these 300gXTP's @ least until they are used up ~im hoping...ive been looking @ sierras data(thnx again mavracer)for their 300g & it looks like someplace around 20.0g-20.2g or .3 of H110 wouldnt be a bad starting load ~then just work towards 21.0 while closely checking for signs of pressure...heck i dont want all the VEL. i can get anyway until i see how it expands on some phone books & jugs of water @ least...i know the faster they hit~the faster they will flatten out & the sooner that happens the quicker they slow down...1 guy cranked em up to where they only busted 3 milk jugs of water & hit the dirt & just laid there all spread out ~lol...dont need that ~i think our corn fed whitetails got a little more to em than the density of a few jugs~even more'so if ya hit bone/shoulder...
so onward i go...ive only been reloading for 2 yrs now thnx to Midway & Lee(for the price...cant beat it~got the 4-hole turret press & i kinda single stage it...lol...took a little effort then i began rollin out some real nice lookin stuff) but i'll say 1 thing being somewhat of a perfectionist~im now a life'er & once i get my .45-70's ~ .44's & .38's down(ya im stickin to straight walls for now) i'll be tryin some new dies out...but for now i got my work cut out for me & all you guys are a really Great help~cant say thanks ~enough...

RidgwayCO
April 19, 2007, 05:17 PM
The way I understand it, the lower cannelure (the one closest to the bullet base) is for use in revolvers with cylinders long enough to handle the longer-than-SAAMI OAL that results from crimping in it. Reloading data exists for this longer OAL.

The upper cannelure (the one farthest away from the base) is for use in both revolvers with shorter cylinders and lever action rifles where OAL is critical to reliable feeding.

I really like this heavy bullet in my Marlin 1894S with a 16 1/2" barrel. Lots of momentum...

SonO
April 20, 2007, 08:38 AM
Longer-than-SAAMI OAL....yep thats exactly what im looking for...all ive found was for Sierra .300gr...so i guess i'll use that for finding a comfy starting load

SonO
April 20, 2007, 08:41 AM
BTW just in case im a newbie here but ive been lookin it over "great place"...thnx very much all of you for your imput...mavracer you have hit right about where i was lookin on this...i can +up the load but was looking for a starting load from where to work up from...dont want to low of pressure but i dont want the projectile to go flat as soon as it hits...what i do want is to get as much penetration as i can get before all out expansion ya know(the ole devastating wound channel)& i might be a little superficial here but i want a +P round that looks like a +P round & acts likes one~whitetails the name of the game & here in NY we have lots of hills...river bottom...lake & farm country...lots of thick woods & cover...so im not sure i'll even scope my TRB~yet...yep sierra load data for their 300 grainer sounds like a good place to start & it looks like their cannelure is right about the same as the bottom cannelure on the Hndy 300 grainer XTP...i been sitting here waiting for other opinions(rather be & feel safe)& you guys are GREAT~does ease my mind quite a bit...so i guess i can start trimmin some brass now & find me a good load to start with~try a few & go from there...gotta get me a chrono asap...anyway you guys are great & thnx for your help & quick replies...im still workin on figuring this forum out~will get there...thnx again.
now only if the wife hadnt got me 150~ 300g XTP's i probably woulda got sierra's...oooh well next in line lol

jflimbach
April 26, 2007, 02:36 PM
I shoot the 300gr XTP at 1.610 ahead of 20.5gr of Lil'Gun - close to max load

Modeling your question in QuickLoad (which has proven accurate for .44 mag) give these data for H110, which seem to make sense:

OAL Charge Velocity Max Pressure
1.610 19.0gr 1,249fps 26,186psi
1.735 19.0gr 1,159fps 19,087psi

1.610 20.5gr 1,356fps 33,296psi
1.735 20.5gr 1,254fps 23,320psi

Physics being what it is, holding the charge constant, increasing the OAL reduces both velocity and pressure. Reliability of ignition is another question that I don't know much about. I use standard LP primers (not magnum) with all my .44mag loads, including H110 and Lil'Gun, and haven't had any problems to date. Others experience may, and probably does vary, and of course use any of this at your own risk, etc. etc..........

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