[MicroBalrog]

Were can I find information about the ballistic behaviour of a shot fired through car windows from inside/outside a car?

The Israeli gun forum moderators routinely erase information on the subject - thus, they've made me curious. Censorship doesn't work.:D

[badgerrr]

About all I can speak of is some of my impromptu experimentation done with 45LC, cardboard sheets and a few junk car windows.

Seems like even as close as the sheets would be to the windows (say, propped up behind the steering wheel) the bullets point of impact can vary from point of aim 15 or 20 degrees - in no particular direction.

Glass spray should be mentioned. My cardboard was always seriously roughed up by those little glass squares that fly toward the target with the bullet. Usually, these squares would completely penetrate the cardboard. An individual fighting from behind auto glass would have to contend seriously with these fragments. Getting blinded would be a very real possibility - perhaps likelyhood.

:uhoh:

The flying glass problem, I think, is great enough that, if I were using a car door for cover - I would choose to roll down the window completely - if the situation allowed. This would give the door more bullet resistance (as it would have to penetrate the window also) and the door would then contain that #@%*& flying glass.

[dickwholliday]

try to find an old gun nut video called Deadly Weapons.....they shot rifles-pistols at every known substance and disspelled about every myth you've ever heard of....i remember winsheilds of cars and plate glass for sure......one i remember was a guy getting shot dead on with a 308 ...the theory was abouth how you see movie shots showing the victim cut a flip or fly through the air when shot....the guy being shot had a big bullet proof vest on and was standing on one foot and was not even knocked off his feet.....another was about what you call bush rifles....you know like a big heavy slow bullet not being deflected by brush or small sticks...the proof was when they shot a 50 cal machine bullet through a small baffle with some brush and small sticks in the baffle...they put a target on the other side of the baffle and when the bullet came out it was completely sideways.......Dick

[jsalcedo]

I shot up an old car (64 rambler) with my SKS.

The glass did change the bullet trajectory a little but not much.

.45acp 230 FMJ wouldn't pierce the sheet metal at an angle, only straight on.

[CZ-75]

There was a takeover robbery about 10 years ago in which an Asian gang took over a appliance/electronics store in Kali. A sniper took a shot at one perp who was looking unstable, but the glass deflected the .308 round enough to miss the perp, who started executing the employees and customers lying on the floor, killing 3-4 of them before the police successfully shot and killed them.

I think there was a thread on this at TFL some time back. In short, don't count on point of aim with glass, especially angled windshield glass.

[QuarterBoreGunner]

CZ-75- Your memory is correct; that was a Good Guys electronics store in Sacramento. LE sniper shot was deflected enough by the glass to change POI dramatically. The video was pretty nasty to watch, thankfully glass fragments spalled into his face and he was partially blinded from the shot, so his aim was off enough to allow the majority of his victims to live.

I've also read reports from the IWBJ that laminated auto safety glass can actually cause jacket seperation even at perpindicular impacts (due to the inner layer of synthetic material 'grabbing' onto the jacket as it passes through, IIRC the article advocated the use of moly coated projectiles to alleviate this effect.

[45R]

I use to be a frequent flyer to that Good Guys store. The glass windows and doors are at least a 1/2 inch thick.

[Topgun]

Many many many many times a bullet from a handgun will not even make a hole.

Showcases can deflect .38 specials. Car windows can be impervious to .22 LR even dead on if the barrel is short.

Glass is tough stuff.

Only thing I would count on for glass would be shotgun as there is a shot STRING and some of it would be hitting air instead of glass.

Very seldom will a bullet hit glass at 90 degree angle.

....AND.....I distinctly remember TRYING to shoot out a TV screen.

[dickwholliday]

this is not the video i mentioned...
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/reviews2/chestymorgan.html
this one is the one.... http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00009YP7P/qid=1055815473/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/104-7364416-5813531?v=glance&s=video

Dick

[CB900F]

Fella's;

I seem to remember that the Wyoming Highway Patrol did a study on this. I can't back this up in any way, but if memory serves me right, they concluded that once the bullet hit the glass, you could not count on anything.

Funny thing, glass, qua glass, that is without the plastic safety sandwich, is a liquid. That's OK, I know you don't believe it. Go ask Corning.

900F

[goon]

My experience is limited but here it is.
I have seen a .22LR from a Ruger 10/22 repeatedly bounce off the same piece of glass. It was a side car window at about 20 yards sitting at about a 75 degree angle.
I have seen that when a bullet penetrates glass and hits something on the other side, the tumbling, messed-up bullet makes a wicked hole in it.
I once saw a .22LR 40 grain LRN rip a Coke can completely in two after passing through a peice of regular window pane. Imagine what something bigger would do if it connected.
I will also say that it depends on where the window is.
For my testing purposes back when I was a kid, I had two old car doors. I shot one glass out with the window up, and the other with the window down.
My round of choice was a load of 12GA No.6 with ringed shells. They will completely penetrate clear through a car, right through both doors. But upon entering the door with the window down, the projectile broke up and more than less disintegrated, not making it to past the inside part of the other door.
The car was an old Oldsmobile that my dad had parked then inadvertently dropped a tree on years earlier, so there was no illegal stuff going on there.
Through regular sheet metal doors, the .22LR can be quite suprising as well.

[willyjixx]

more deflection throught the front. less through the sides.

plus the sides an rear are easier for penetration

[TexasVet]

glass, qua glass, that is without the plastic safety sandwich, is a liquid.
Yep... but it is a very SLOW liquid, with a VERY high viscosity index. A century or so in a window pane will produce a measurable downward flow and thickening of the lower part of the glass.
I've had trouble convincing people of this too!:D I guess nobody studies physics (properties of materials) much anymore.:D

[Politically Incorrect]

How would a bullet behave after hitting car glass?

I don't know, but I'm certain it would fasten its seatbelt next time. :D

[TheeBadOne]

I seem to remember that the Wyoming Highway Patrol did a study on this. I can't back this up in any way, but if memory serves me right, they concluded that once the bullet hit the glass, you could not count on anything.
Exactly

[45King]

TexasVEt wrote:Yep... but it is a very SLOW liquid, with a VERY high viscosity index. A century or so in a window pane will produce a measurable downward flow and thickening of the lower part of the glass.

I can attest to that. The house I grew up in was built circa 1840, and much of the glass was original. Many of the old panes looked as if they had "melted" a bit, with flow lines across the pane laterally. They looked sort of like paint runs.

For sure fire pentration of auto or other glass, I have only three letters:


RPG

If that won't do the trick, "you in a heap o' trouble, boy."

[Double Naught Spy]

How a ballistic projectile reacts or performs in regard to hitting a windshield or side glass is not answered easily and requires a lot more information than was given in the request.

As a general rule here in the states, automotive glass is getting thinner and thinner. So you can't count on that aspect as being consistent.

The requirements for automotive glass are not univesal and so while there may be standards for automotive glass, those standards will not necessarily be the same in other parts of the world.

Windshield glass has a lining to help keep the glass intact. Side window glass is designed to shatter in small pieces. So windshield data would not apply to side window data, and vice versa.

The angle at which the glass is impacted will influence the behavior of the slug. Generally, a round fired perpindicular to the glass will have the greatest chance of passing through. As you start changing the angle from perpindicular, deflection of the slug should become greater or more likely to happen.

Slug size, weight, shape, mass, and velocity will all affect behavior as well.

Yes, glass is a slow liquid, but without long term time compression to see it flow, count on it behaving more like a solid for gunshot events.

[MicroBalrog]

Now, could I count on a 9mm to defend me well when firing from the inside of a car?

[CZ-75]

I don't see why 9mm wouldn't work well for defense from inside. Just remember that the first shot isn't going point of aim and that breaking the glass for subsequent shots is the only thing you should expect at a distance much greater than point-blank.

[Partisan Ranger]

So I guess the scene in Reservoir Dogs when Harvey Keitel uses 2 .45s to blast out the windshield and kill 2 cops in a squad car was Hollywood fantasy?

[CZ-75]

So I guess the scene in Reservoir Dogs when Harvey Keitel uses 2 .45s to blast out the windshield and kill 2 cops in a squad car was Hollywood fantasy?

When does anyone take gun-handling cues from Hollywierd? I'm surprised he didn't use two Glock 7s.

However, emptying the guns through the windshield would've connected eventually. I mean, if his aim wasn't true to begin with, the deflection from the windshield just might have corrected things for him.