Another confirmation: 33rd. 9mm G18 mags found on shooter


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glockarmourer40517
April 18, 2007, 08:43 PM
there is a NEW report today , AGAIN SAYING that G18 9mm 33rd. Glock magazines were recovered off the body of the shooter.

-----the report came from a "source" that was reported on the (anti-gun) MSNBC network.
I reported this info a day ago, but there is now more confirmation of same....

**G18 mags (designed for use in g18 selectfire [i.e. fullauto] handguns used by european security, and airport security use, close quarters mini-machineguns)...which is in actuality only a modified G17 with a selector lever which lets the handgun go full-auto...this selector bumps the cruciform plate on each cycle letting the striker repeat (ie machinegun).

**Glocks have always been on the chopping plate by the anti-gunners due to the fact that very simple modification will turn any glock into machine-pistol......NOT to mention the fact that there are 3 manufacturers who made quick-removable collapsable stocks which fit ALL but the subcompact glocks....OR that a company in the USA invented a (a build it yourself design no less) slide cover which turns any glock into a selectfire / fullauto machine-pistol.

*****
Translation ::::: High cap mag ban, with NO expiration date, unlike the 1994 ban.

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thedpp
April 18, 2007, 08:45 PM
They can ban glocks for all I care I own one and dont plan on buying another one ever. On another note who ever writes the news should study before they pull crap out their ***

glockarmourer40517
April 18, 2007, 08:48 PM
yes, the news folks are usually idiots when it comes to gun facts, they confuse fullauto with semi, and CNN posted a pic of a G26 with the caption "glock 19".


trashing glocks? ....you just dont know any better, ive worked in 2 gunshoped, owned EVERYTHING....there is nothing more reliable than a glock, has few parts than any other, LOW bore axis.......and the ONLY handgun that can be 100% stripped complete in under few mins WITHOUT tools.

as such, your comment is Doxa (personal conjecture/opinion), rather than the fact that, while not as beautiful as a $2000+ 1911, etc, its the most reliable handgun made.

I LIKE IT!
April 18, 2007, 08:49 PM
Go figure:rolleyes: Headache:banghead:

Media can pound dirt they're lost in the sauce most the damn time.

Outlaws
April 18, 2007, 08:54 PM
All I can say is that people seem to be coming around to our side. Adam Corrola, who hates guns, said yesterday on his radio show that all these shootings are in gun free zones and that he would actually kind of likes the "Hell's Angles" style atmosphere where if someone starts shooting, they will probably get shot by someone else packing, rather than to depend on the police to do something 10 minutes after the fact.

ATW525
April 18, 2007, 08:56 PM
My question is... if he had 33rd Glock magazines, how come he didn't pose with them in his pictures?? It just seems odd to me that he'd make all these "tough guy" pics and wouldn't use the long machine pistol magazines in them.

gm
April 18, 2007, 09:09 PM
33 round mags?


That still would not have prevented this event.Nothing would have changed.

glockarmourer40517
April 18, 2007, 09:10 PM
quote::"33 round mags? That still would not have prevented this event.Nothing would have changed."


thats correct, your error however is in ASSUMING the anti-gun scum have common sense , they dont. :D

average_shooter
April 18, 2007, 09:14 PM
The 33-round G-mag fits in the G17, G19, G26, and G34. How can it really be classified as specifically a "machinegun" magazine?

Boats
April 18, 2007, 09:17 PM
.and the ONLY handgun that can be 100% stripped complete in under few mins WITHOUT tools.

Me, my spec'd 1911A1s, and John Moses Browning's ghost had a hearty laugh at that nugget.

glockarmourer40517
April 18, 2007, 09:19 PM
quote:::"The 33-round G-mag fits in the G17, G19, G26, and G34. How can it really be classified as specifically a "machinegun" magazine?""


its specified BY GLOCK INC. as a "g18 mag", also on websites that sell them, such as cdnninvestments.com and other sites........ because IT WAS DISIGNED FOR USE WITH the G18 select-fire pistol.

However, glock, like EVERY COMPANY ON earth, so long as its legal, will sell anything to anyone for $$$, and there are tons and tons of regular citizens that WANT the "cool-ass big honkin 33rd maggie to stick in their G17/G19/G26"

SAME REASON the 30RD. mags used in AR-15 are classified as M16 mags, however most list them as "M16/AR15" mags.

its CLASSIFIED that way, cause thats exactly what the damn hell it is, its a G18 mag, which happens to be USED , SOLD TO , and LOVE BY G17/G19 owners who wanna own one of those "bigass mags". :scrutiny:

glockarmourer40517
April 18, 2007, 09:24 PM
quote::"Me, my spec'd 1911A1s, and John Moses Browning's ghost had a hearty laugh at that nugget."

a 1911, which i own many of and love, cannot be stripped 100% in anywhere close to the time i can strip any glock, nor is a 1911 in the field, even 1/10th as trustworthy when the muck and dirt are everywhere.

1911 has KNOWN DESIGN flaws......namely: its extractor, its slide pin, its barrel bushing........etc etc. ..........the 1911 experts admit this much. Its a great design, i love my many 1911s, however they cannot size up to a glock in many respects......reliability, bore axis, capacity, durability, simplicity, design........etc. :rolleyes:

Boats
April 18, 2007, 09:28 PM
You were wrong the first time and wrong yet again the second time, but don't let reality get in the way of an illiterate rant.;)

Autolycus
April 18, 2007, 09:30 PM
Lets not let the thread drift. Nobody should be concerned with the reliability of Glocks versus 1911s or how you can strip each gun.

The point is that the media is going to portray this in the worst light. The fact that he had "high capacity" magazines is what they will use against us. It matters not if they were for a 1911 or a Glock 17 or a Glock 18. In the end it will be used to justify some new draconian antigun laws.

okiebuckout
April 18, 2007, 09:36 PM
What again was this thread about???:rolleyes: Come on guys lets stick with the thread topic.

JLelli
April 18, 2007, 10:18 PM
Do you have a source for this? No article on MSNBC's website says anything about a 33 rd. mag, and none were visible in his "manifesto."

Sistema1927
April 18, 2007, 10:59 PM
They can ban glocks for all I care I own one and dont plan on buying another one ever.

Sure your name isn't Zumbo?

If any gun isn't safe, then no guns are safe.

Shadowangel
April 18, 2007, 11:22 PM
1911 has KNOWN DESIGN flaws......namely: its extractor, its slide pin, its barrel bushing........etc etc. ..........the 1911 experts admit this much. Its a great design, i love my many 1911s, however they cannot size up to a glock in many respects......reliability, bore axis, capacity, durability, simplicity, design........etc.


From glockarmorer...hmm. Surely an unbiased opinion. :rolleyes:

PILMAN
April 18, 2007, 11:33 PM
How quickly could a bill be passed?

Tob
April 18, 2007, 11:45 PM
In a Congress which is controlled by Dems, maybe quickly. But it would need 2/3 vote to get by President GWB, once he vetoed the 1st round. Now in 2008 this may change, if a Democrat becomes President.

average_shooter
April 18, 2007, 11:49 PM
Some seem to have forgotten that Our Glorious Leader said he would sign a new AWB if congress got it to his desk...

Tob
April 18, 2007, 11:56 PM
He may be counting on support that would block the Bill from ever reaching his desk?
I can't see him signing a awb Bill...maybe I'm blindfolded though...we'll have to see.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 19, 2007, 12:14 AM
Nobody is going to ban anything without your consent. Are you going to consent or are you going to explain to your representatives that you will replace them if they do not express your will?

It sounds simple, and in some ways it is; but at the end of the day, that is what it comes down to. Nobody can ban anything unless you allow them to.

Jorg Nysgerrig
April 19, 2007, 12:36 AM
This claim really needs a credible source. All I've seen is speculation.

Wes Janson
April 19, 2007, 01:43 AM
Nobody is going to ban anything without your consent. Are you going to consent or are you going to explain to your representatives that you will replace them if they do not express your will?

It sounds simple, and in some ways it is; but at the end of the day, that is what it comes down to. Nobody can ban anything unless you allow them to.


That sounds nice, but in reality is completely untrue. My consent, and the consent of this entire forum, is totally unnecessary. We can write as much as we want, cut down an entire forest to make our letters if we wish, but if the numbers are against us then we shall lose.

LAR-15
April 19, 2007, 08:55 AM
Proof?

I have not heard what kind of magazines he used.

Just that the 'firearms experts' on cable have speculated he had 15 rounders.

I think he bought a bunch of 10 rounders on clearance.

RIDE
April 19, 2007, 09:16 AM
They can ban glocks for all I care I own one and dont plan on buying another one ever.

What an ignorant comment!!!

If you are willing to let other people's rights be taken away, then you are not deserving of your own rights.

mkonops
April 19, 2007, 09:22 AM
I don't see why it should matter what the magazine capacity was. whether it was two 30 rounders or six 10 rounders, the end result would have been, and is, the same. If someone want to kill other people, they are going to do so. Making them carry more magazines is not a deterrent. Making them obtain a permit is not a deterrent. Making a campus a gun free zone is not a deterrent. Nothing the law can do short of "minority report" (the movie) will prevent murder. If they cant buy a gun from a shop they will obtain one illegally. The only thing we CAN do to is bring our children up properly, and make the effort to educate and arm the people.

Slappy McGee
April 19, 2007, 09:26 AM
Regardless of the 33rd or 19rd magazines, there seems to already be calls for a mag. size limit under the guise of "common sense" restrictions.

From the WSJ:

Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, said there still might be adjustments that can be made in the shootings' wake, such as limiting the size of ammunition clips. "We're talking reasonable, common sense restrictions," he said. "If a little more red tape is going to decrease the yellow tape of a crime scene, that's an inconvenience" most people are willing to accept.

sargenv
April 19, 2007, 12:10 PM
I dunno.. all this talk about standard capacity magazines is a moot point. California, Hawaii, and several other states mandate no more than 10 round magazines, and we have higher crime than anywhere else, go figure.. It's not the capacity, it's the fact that us, the law abiding, cannot carry to defend ourselves regardless of where. I have yet to see whether he had standard cap mags, 10 round mags or whatever. My question is, he had to have gone to slide lock at some point, why did no one realize he was at slide lock and rush the guy? Ok, he had the 22 also, well, if he had both guns in his hands how was he able to reload one of them? Something here doesn't add up. We don't even know if no one did try to stop him. Someone might have but we'll not know any of this until the investigation is over. If he still had ammo, why was it that he didn't continue? We the public may never know all the facts.

Vince

longeyes
April 19, 2007, 12:15 PM
Why the gratuitous Glock-bashing? I don't get it. We all know the Glock is one of--if not the only--great handgun designs of all time. We need to band together to make sure we still have it, and its ancillaries, available to us.

karz10
April 19, 2007, 02:00 PM
So the other thread that touched on this G18 mag issue has been closed, so I'll post my reply from last night in here, which is titled specifically referencing the topic of the 33rd magazines:

As of last night:
Well, so far, this is the first printed mention of hi cap mags on a news site...but I'm still looking...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18170761/

Quote:
Because he killed and injured so many victims in a short span of time, some people speculated that Cho used high-capacity magazines containing as many as 33 rounds in each clip.

So it seems 'some people' speculated this, and so maybe others reported it and forgot the 'speculation' part???



Here's one that says 'probably' had 33 rds

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGOUPAJ141.DTL

Quote:
Shooter's guns ...
The guns used by 23-year-old Cho Seung-Hui were weapons probably fitted with high-capacity magazines able to hold 33 rounds per clip.


Here's one that state it 'could' hold 33rds
http://www.news-journalonline.com/Ne...PN24041907.htm

Quote:
or even those who might indict the shopkeeper who sold Cho the Glock 9mm pistol that could hold up to 33 rounds:


Well, I can't find anything definitive, just a bunch of duplicates to the above, speculation, could hold, can hold, possibly might hold, etc.

Karz

So, I still haven't seen anything on this, only speculation, and optional capacity quoted, I've not seen anything indicating he had those magazines on him.

As a matter of fact, HERE is the FIRST report I've seen about ANYTHING claimed to be on him in this regard:

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070418/REPOSITORY/704180366/1013/NEWS03

Law enforcement officials say that the Glock Cho used had a 15-round ammunition magazine, banned under the federal assault weapons ban that expired in 2004. Several empty magazines were recovered at the scene.

"If you have four or five rounds in a clip rather than 15, the shooter has to reload and reload," said Brian Malte, with the Brady Campaign, a gun safety group. "That gives someone an opportunity to do something to stop him."


I'm interested in any credible printed material either way.

Karz

crazed_ss
April 19, 2007, 02:10 PM
*DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT ADVOCATING BANNING MAGAZINES*

That's the rationale behind the hi-cap mag bans I think.

For example, you cant get 33rd glock mags in CA unless you know someone who has one and take it from them.. or maybe a cop buys one for you. You cant get them off the shelf in the store and no gun shops from the Internet will ship them here.

If this kid had bought his Glock in CA and went on a rampage, he would have had to carry three 10 round mags for every 33rounder. He would have had to reload 3 times as much, which conceivably would have given someone time to tackle him.

Of course reloading takes all of 3 seconds, so who knows what would have happen. Supposedly he stopped to reload during the massacre and know one grabbed him, so it's pretty much just all speculation.

Biker
April 19, 2007, 02:26 PM
Actually, I rarely practice anymore, but I'd bet a 12 pack that I can slap a fresh mag (carried in my left hip pocket) in my G23 and have her ready to rock in less than 1.5 seconds.

Biker

AJAX22
April 19, 2007, 02:28 PM
see the thing about 'if he'd had to reload someone could have stopped him' is the simple fact that he had two guns.

If he only is reloading one of them, that means that there is one thats always loaded and ready.

so it doesn't really matter if he has 33 round mags or not.

Lonestar.45
April 19, 2007, 03:21 PM
glockarmourer40517

trashing glocks? ....you just dont know any better, ive worked in 2 gunshoped, owned EVERYTHING....there is nothing more reliable than a glock, has few parts than any other, LOW bore axis.......and the ONLY handgun that can be 100% stripped complete in under few mins WITHOUT tools.


Umm, okay, so you've worked in 2 "gunshoped" and owned EVERYTHING, but you believe that the Glock is the "ONLY handgun that can 100% be stripped complete in under a few mins WITHOUT tools"?????

I guess this is why the term "errornet" is sometimes so appropriate. :scrutiny:

longeyes
April 19, 2007, 03:26 PM
Nobody is going to ban anything without your consent. Are you going to consent or are you going to explain to your representatives that you will replace them if they do not express your will?

It sounds simple, and in some ways it is; but at the end of the day, that is what it comes down to. Nobody can ban anything unless you allow them to.

+100

Make sure it DOESN'T happen.

It is not "written."

30 cal slob
April 19, 2007, 03:29 PM
Something tells me that the shooter didn't have to do a very quick reload if people were cowering or playing dead. sounds like he took his time.

You probably won't care, but count me as a fan of the Glock platform. My only complaint about Glocks is that I don't have enough of 'em.

The only gun I truly hate is the one that I don't have when I absolutely positively desperately need it.

MikePGS
April 19, 2007, 03:32 PM
I've actually read a few reports that said he would pause for minutes at a time, and reload during the pauses. If thats the case, he could've had a five shot revolver and still done as much damage.

Regen
April 19, 2007, 04:21 PM
Sargenv said: My question is, he had to have gone to slide lock at some point, why did no one realize he was at slide lock and rush the guy?

From reports I heard, he was shooting people three times. If he had 10 round magazines, he would never have to go to slide lock. He could shoot three people and then change mags with one in the pipe.

You are also assuming that anyone (or enough people) in the classroom knows what it means when a slide locks back on a semi-auto.

ptmmatssc
April 19, 2007, 06:31 PM
"If you have four or five rounds in a clip rather than 15, the shooter has to reload and reload," said Brian Malte, with the Brady Campaign, a gun safety group. "That gives someone an opportunity to do something to stop him."

The fact that they DID find magazines (empty) and 15 round mags , 32 people , 3 wounds each (not to include wounded still alive) means he reloaded at least 4 times . Is there a set number of reloads before someone reacts?


edit : Just said on the news they found 17 mags in the school . That's a lot of reloads .

Geronimo45
April 19, 2007, 08:26 PM
Just said on the news they found 17 mags in the school
That makes the high killed-to-wounded ratio make a lot more sense. At least 170 rounds fired, if all mags were empty.

karz10
April 19, 2007, 10:23 PM
Ok, I was unable to find anything like this before, but now I see a story on MSNBC stating that *SOME* of the 17 magazines found were 33rds, and others, I assume most, were 15 rds, which is std for the G19...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18209746/

But inside the classroom building, investigators say they found a surprising number of handgun magazines, or clips 17. Some, officials say, were high-capacity magazines that hold 33 rounds. That means, investigators say, that Cho may have fired at least 200 times during his killing spree on Monday.


There's a bad quote in there from an ex ATF guy too, saying the hollow points have no use in SD, but are designed for killing.. this is already being hashed out in another thread...

Karz

Caimlas
April 19, 2007, 10:56 PM
My question is, he had to have gone to slide lock at some point, why did no one realize he was at slide lock and rush the guy? Ok, he had the 22 also, well, if he had both guns in his hands how was he able to reload one of them? Something here doesn't add up. We don't even know if no one did try to stop him. Someone might have but we'll not know any of this until the investigation is over. If he still had ammo, why was it that he didn't continue? We the public may never know all the facts.


That's the thing that gets me, too. I can only assume that he got bored, or thought he'd killed enough to make his statement. I can not think of any other rational explanation for why he'd stop while still having ammo.

As for reloads, yeah - I don't undersand why he wasn't rushed. Even if he paused between reloads, it'd take a moment to get the .22 to bear on the target from wherever he had it.

I did hear someone say at the range tonight that they'd heard that he reloaded very quickly when he did reload - 2 seconds flat, is what they'd said. I don't think that's likely, and can't find any information to that effect. You'd have to practice a LOT to get that kind of reload time, and his shooting accuracy doesn't seem to suggest that he spent much time at the range - thank God.

I'm looking forward to getting more information on this topic, because then we can put this bastard's memory to rest once we've gotten the facts. I'm growing weary of it, but my curiosity is such that I feel the need to find out what, exactly, happened. And, my psyche needs to know that more than just an old Jewish professor tried to stop him.

Autolycus
April 19, 2007, 11:51 PM
Not everyone is a hero. Remember that.

halvey
April 20, 2007, 10:21 AM
Originally Posted by thedpp
They can ban glocks for all I care I own one and dont plan on buying another one ever. Trying to take the high road here but can't...

What an idiotic statement.

Brian Williams
April 20, 2007, 10:58 AM
Too much speculation. Start a new thread with totally accurate info and quit bashing.

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