Judge illegally carries handgun...


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Autolycus
April 20, 2007, 01:14 AM
Durham Judge Keeps Gun in Court, Law May Make it Legal


Posted: Apr. 18, 2007

Durham — The “No Concealed Handguns” sign on the courthouse door in Durham doesn’t stop Judge David LaBarre from keeping a gun behind the bench.

“I have a little derringer, five-shot derringer,” said the judge, who presides over Domestic Violence Court.

LaBarre has a permit for the gun, but he is breaking the law by having it in the courtroom, according to the Durham County Sheriff’s Office.

But sheriff’s officials said they have no intention of telling him it’s illegal, because it’s his courtroom.

The gun-toting judge might not be breaking the law for long. State lawmakers met Wednesday to debate legislation that would allow judges to carry concealed handguns in the courtroom.

As of late Wednesday, House members were one step away from approving the bill and sending it to the Senate.

Rep. Walter G. Church, Sr., D-Burke, is one of the bill's sponsors.

“This is more of a security measure,” he said.

While LeBarre has never fired the gun in the courtroom, he said he has felt threatened occasionally.

In Northampton County last year, a defendant grabbed a deputy’s gun. He shot a deputy before an officer shot and killed him. But would judges having guns improve courthouse security?

“Not necessarily,” LeBarre said, but, “It might improve my own security.”
Link to Article (http://wral.com/news/local/story/1279604/)

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Autolycus
April 20, 2007, 01:16 AM
The law should apply equally to all. What would happen if I brought a gun into the courthouse?

Vermonter
April 20, 2007, 01:18 AM
"But sheriff’s officials said they have no intention of telling him it’s illegal, because it’s his courtroom. "

It's NOT his courtroom. It's OUR courtroom.

Glockfan.45
April 20, 2007, 01:26 AM
The law should apply equally to all. What would happen if I brought a gun into the courthouse?


While I support CCW, and feel their should be virtually no restrictions as to where one may carry, I dont think courthouses should be one of those places. I dont think the judge should be "packing" either. We pay for armed security at our courthouses in the form of tax dollars. The Marshalls Service should suffice.

Autolycus
April 20, 2007, 01:36 AM
Changed my views.

pax
April 20, 2007, 01:37 AM
A five-shot derringer?

pax

Autolycus
April 20, 2007, 01:39 AM
I am betting its a revolver. But the judge doesnt need to know that.

Sindawe
April 20, 2007, 03:22 AM
It's NOT his courtroom. It's OUR courtroom.Yep. The individual in the funny black dress is just charged with ensuring that the rules of the law are followed in the court, they do NOT hold title to said court.

Frelling hypocrite.

Firethorn
April 20, 2007, 04:22 AM
While I support CCW, and feel their should be virtually no restrictions as to where one may carry, I dont think courthouses should be one of those places. I dont think the judge should be "packing" either. We pay for armed security at our courthouses in the form of tax dollars. The Marshalls Service should suffice.

I'd have to agree with this. It helps that a courthouse is one of the few places they actually bother to put metal detectors and searches in place. While not foolproof, they do help. Heck, it's easier to keep weapons out of a courthouse area than an airport.

I can see restricting firearms to Baliffs, however, as a ancillery to that I hold the baliffs to a much higher standard than in many places today. If they choose to also allow judges to arm themselves; I see this as reasonable.

Autolycus
April 20, 2007, 04:43 AM
While I could tolerate just marshals carrying my personal view is different.

I dont think that the judge should be allowed to carry.

My personal view is that everyone should be allowed to carry. Except for the accused and accuser. Family, friends, witnesses, and spectators. Attorneys as well. The judge and bailiff as well.

The person that is on trail should be forced to check their weapon with the bailiff if they want to carry to the courthouse. If they are found guilty then they are not allowed to rearm and their firearm goes to their family or someone of their choosing who is not in prison. Or they should be allowed to let their gun be auctioned and the court just takes out costs. The rest is depositied in their commisary. If they would rather not give it away they should be allowed to let the court auction it or let it be held with their personal possessions until they get out of jail.

If they are found innocent then they should be allowed to retreive their gun and go about their business.

Soybomb
April 20, 2007, 04:43 AM
While I support CCW, and feel their should be virtually no restrictions as to where one may carry, I dont think courthouses should be one of those places. I dont think the judge should be "packing" either. We pay for armed security at our courthouses in the form of tax dollars. The Marshalls Service should suffice.

If it does would this happen?

n Northampton County last year, a defendant grabbed a deputy’s gun. He shot a deputy before an officer shot and killed him. But would judges having guns improve courthouse security?
Anyway I am troubled by a judge who doesn't believe he should have to follow the law and a sheriff's office who ignores it.

Mannix
April 20, 2007, 05:23 AM
It's NOT his courtroom. It's OUR courtroom.
Damn right. The whole elitist attitude of the bill irks me too. I mean aren't they supposed to be the servants of the people? Last I checked they are not above the law, and as such must follow the law. Officials who ignore the law create distrust and contempt for the system, which also applies to changing the law they are supposed to be enforcing to allow themselves more rights than the rest of us.

Glockfan.45
April 20, 2007, 05:51 AM
My personal view is that everyone should be allowed to carry. Except for the accused and accuser. Family, friends, witnesses, and spectators. Attorneys as well. The judge and bailiff as well.


I will have to disagree with you on that. I think that a federal building that provides proper security IE metal detectors, and armed professional guards at the door to insure no unauthorized weapons are brought in can limit CCW. The problem with allowing people to bring weapons into a court house is emotional. Say you are having a murder trial, and a grieved relative of the victim who happens to be carrying takes a shot at the defendant while hes on the stand. The relative likely would not have had access to the defendant at any other point outside the trial to carry out their revenge. That sort of thing would disrupt our legal process. I also would be ok with not being allowed to carry into jails, and a few other federal buildings. In cases like that I say check your guns at the door.

If it does would this happen?


Quote:
n Northampton County last year, a defendant grabbed a deputy’s gun. He shot a deputy before an officer shot and killed him. But would judges having guns improve courthouse security?


While that is always possible it is a very rare, and unlikely occurance. The bad guy was stopped all the same. Armed bystanders would not have made any difference in that case. I still see no reason for the judge to be armed in court though.

Autolycus
April 20, 2007, 05:55 AM
I will have to disagree with you on that. I think that a federal building that provides proper security IE metal detectors, and armed professional guards at the door to insure no unauthorized weapons are brought in can limit CCW. The problem with allowing people to bring weapons into a court house is emotional. Say you are having a murder trial, and a grieved relative of the victim who happens to be carrying takes a shot at the defendant while hes on the stand. The relative likely would not have had access to the defendant at any other point outside the trial to carry out their revenge. That sort of thing would disrupt our legal process. I also would be ok with not being allowed to carry into jails, and a few other federal buildings. In cases like that I say check your guns at the door.



While that is always possible it is a very rare, and unlikely occurance. The bad guy was stopped all the same. Armed bystanders would not have made any difference in that case. I still see no reason for the judge to be armed in court though.
Glockfan.45: I live in a libertarian fantasy land. However I could stomach only the guards being allowed. But I dont think the judge should be allowed to.

I also think we should be provided a place to store our guns at least.

Glockfan.45
April 20, 2007, 06:10 AM
I also think we should be provided a place to store our guns at least.


I agree, there should be storage lockers at the door. Kinda like the ones at the bus station or mall.

ProficientRifleman
April 20, 2007, 06:46 AM
Is this Judge above the law?

Just curious.

LanEvo`
April 20, 2007, 08:24 AM
But would judges having guns improve courthouse security?

“Not necessarily,” LeBarre said, but, “It might improve my own security.”What about the personal security of us lowly serfs? I must not have been paying attention in school. I didn't know the constitution was written to protect agents of the state...not the people.

ken grant
April 20, 2007, 08:36 AM
I don't know if all Courthouses are the same but at mine you would be suprised at the large number of people by-passing the Metal Screeners everyday.
The Guards seem to know them and don't open their mouths while you are standing in line to be screened.

unspellable
April 20, 2007, 01:59 PM
It is self evident that the individual right to keep and bear arms is an inherent right of any free citizen. It is therefore necessary to the security of a free state that no official, agent, or employee of any government or government agency at any level, federal, state, county, or local level, acting in any capacity whatsoever, public or private, shall be allowed to own, posses, buy, acquire, carry, or hold any firearm or other personal weapon under any circumstance or manner which is debarred to the ordinary citizen.

rmurfster
April 20, 2007, 02:59 PM
The gun-toting judge might not be breaking the law for long. State lawmakers met Wednesday to debate legislation that would allow judges to carry concealed handguns in the courtroom.No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States
- USC,Article I, Section 9, PP8

Nobility: 1. A class of persons distinguished by high birth or rank...
- American Heritage Dictionary

LaBarre has a permit for the gun, but he is breaking the law by having it in the courtroom, according to the Durham County Sheriff’s Office.

But sheriff’s officials said they have no intention of telling him it’s illegal, because it’s his courtroom. Just like this elitist judge that is above the law, so many of our Mayors (NYC, Michael Bloomberg) and Congressmen carry illegally as well, so they don't care that we can't :cuss:

So, if our *Nobles* can carry outside the law, why would they care if our right to self-defense is stripped away? :banghead:

glockman19
April 20, 2007, 03:02 PM
This double standard is EXACTLY why we should all be able to carry. If judges and the police/Sheriff don't enforce the laws in their own courtroom where punishment is handed down to others then the whole system is a farce.

ballistic gelatin
April 20, 2007, 03:15 PM
I have worked in a courthouse and YES it's HIS courtroom.

The-Fly
April 20, 2007, 04:45 PM
I dont have a problem with a judge carrying in a court house. There is a record of judge's getting wacked by escaped convicts.

Or did everyone forget about Atlanta a year or so ago ?

CDignition
April 20, 2007, 07:03 PM
I have ZERO problem with a Judge carrying a weapon in the courtroom...as long as he is proficient with it, its all good.

Waitone
April 20, 2007, 07:46 PM
The fact the judge packs heat despite law is irrelevant. We're talkin' NC here; the land of ace DA's like Nifong and Gilchrist.

As an aside unfortunately had to spend time in a Mecklenburg county court. Security consisted of metal detectors while the bailiffs sported empty holsters, OC spray, ASP, and cuffs.

Shift to court in Lexington SC and I spied all officers fully armed and a few packing lawyers. Metal scanners were used also. I think the difference was Lexington courts were shot up at some point in the past.

The Amigo
April 20, 2007, 09:00 PM
I don't mind a judge carrying in court actually I would carry 2 if i was sending rapist, murderers and all class of bad boys to do some time. However other than the marshals i think no one else shall carry in court. The same reason stated previously too many emotions and mentally unstable people sit at the benches during trials, victims family members ext.. to me is asking for trouble.

p35
April 20, 2007, 11:21 PM
I actually think that family court is a lot more dangerous than criminal court- people get a lot more emotionally involved (and having been a lawyer for 18 years, I know). Some of the courthouses around here actually do have lockers for civilians to lock up their guns, and at the rest the screeners generally don't mind checking a gun as long as you handle it safely. I don't carry up to that point just b/c it's too much trouble.

Lupinus
April 20, 2007, 11:30 PM
so since I am sure this fine public official is not a hypocryt he would be fine with me carrying illegaly into the court room right? Fair is fair right?

Everyone should be allowed to carry, i don't care if there is armed security.

ProficientRifleman
April 21, 2007, 04:00 AM
I dont have a problem with a judge carrying in a court house. There is a record of judge's getting wacked by escaped convicts.

Or did everyone forget about Atlanta a year or so ago ?

SO... you are saying that the judge is and also SHOULD BE above the law...?

nobody_special
April 21, 2007, 05:01 AM
I have a big problem with this. A judge who does not attempt to follow the law can not be trusted to impartially uphold it. He believes that he is above the law in this case. Might he think that certain other people are sometimes above the law as well?

If those who are tasked with upholding the law should disrespect it, then there is no reason for the rest of us to respect the law.

And for those who would sling accusatiions of hypocrisy... I'm not one to advocate breaking firearms laws, even those which are unjust or contrary to the Constitution. The severe penalties, coupled with the minute likelihood of anyone actually caring, simply make the prospect of civil disobedience impractical and counterproductive. Unless you're a judge, anyway. :scrutiny:

This, however, is just another element the path our nation is treading toward tyrrany: unjust laws, passed by corrupt and criminal leaders, and enforced in an inequitable manner.

Lupinus
April 21, 2007, 09:50 AM
Depends why he isn't following the law. If he places himself above it problem, if he defies it on the grounds it is agianst the constitition then more power to him. I somehow don't think it's the latter though.

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