...no guns in schools, period.


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ebd10
April 20, 2007, 11:06 AM
That's a snippet from Wayne LaPierre, the pusillanimous lickspittle that claims to be a champion of the Second Amendment, who said this at the NRA Annual Members meeting in 1999. Read it here:

http://www.nrahq.org/transcripts/denver_wlp.asp

As a life member, I am disgusted at the direction that the NRA has taken under his leadership. Compromise is the watchword of the day, and his statement about no guns in schools makes him as culpable in the Virginia Tech shooting as Larry Hinker.

I am PO'd and intend to do something about getting rid of this POS.

If you enjoyed reading about "...no guns in schools, period." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
spankaveli
April 20, 2007, 11:08 AM
Expanded snippet.

"First, we believe in absolutely gun-free, zero-tolerance, totally safe schools. That means no guns in America's schools, period ... with the rare exception of law enforcement officers or trained security personnel."

Who is we?

30 cal slob
April 20, 2007, 11:08 AM
j warren cassidy was just as bad. :cuss:

only1asterisk
April 20, 2007, 11:09 AM
Who is we?

He's not talking about me.

David

Zero_DgZ
April 20, 2007, 11:23 AM
Seven words:

"I am the only one professional enough..."

6_gunner
April 20, 2007, 11:26 AM
Man, that really disappoints me.

Correia
April 20, 2007, 11:30 AM
Well, things have certainly changed since 1999. Let's see what they do now.

In the meantime, I would strongly suggest not waiting for the NRA to do jack squat for you. We need to do it ourselves, grassroots style.

Utah allows CCW in schools and universities. If we can do it, so can your state.

Contact your reps, and demand to know why Utah loves their children more than your state does. Demand CCW be allowed in school. Now is the time.

JWarren
April 20, 2007, 11:36 AM
I'm very disappointed reading this.


NRA member here. :mad:


John

cmidkiff
April 20, 2007, 11:45 AM
I'm a proud member of the NRA... but every once in a while, they say something that really makes me cringe and grind my teeth. This is one of those statements. I still think that the NRA is the best national group defending our 2A rights, and that every gun owner should be a member.

From 1999... hopefully the official position has changed since then.

hnk45acp
April 20, 2007, 11:56 AM
Isn't he refering to grammar/high schools where kids are too young to own handguns anyway or is he including faculty and staff too?

22-rimfire
April 20, 2007, 11:56 AM
You need to place the comments by Wayne LaPierre in context. This speech was delivered at the national meeting in Denver CO on May 1, 1999. You will recall the the Columbine tragedy occurred on April 20, 1999. There was talk of having the meeting canceled or moved from Denver at the last minute. The "schools" he is referring to are not colleges and universities; they are elementary, middle and high schools. Current law forbids any person under 21 from carrying a firearm concealed. Most "kids" are under 21 in high school, and the few that might not be could be handled on a case by case basis. I doubt Wayne LaPierre was referring to teachers or administrators.

So, I have no problem with the NRA on this issue. The DATES are most important in this case as far as condemning the NRA.

JWarren
April 20, 2007, 11:59 AM
You need to place the comments by Wayne LaPierre in context. This speech was delivered at the national meeting in Denver CO on May 1, 1999.

Thanks for bringing that up 22-Rimfire.

I may have missed it, but I was taking it in the context that he recently said that statement (after the VT shootings).


I think a lot of people are rethinking their position on CCW now-- as evidenced by the discussions in the media, and the polls we are seeing.


John

waterhouse
April 20, 2007, 12:02 PM
Now teaching free CCW classes for college students, faculty, and staff.
www.fbmginc.com

I don't mean to threadjack, but thank you for doing this.

Correia
April 20, 2007, 12:12 PM
Utah has CCW in schools, but many people don't realize it. I'm trying to draw attention to the issue.

Guys, seriously, don't expect the NRA to do anything for us, and don't expect any gains at the fed level. But now is the time for us to chip away at the state level.

You would be amazed how much power you have at the state level as an individual. Your legislators are more than likely regular folks who live in your neighborhood. Now is the time to demand that CCW restrictions be lifted.

I can't accentuate this enough. This is our chance.

22-rimfire
April 20, 2007, 12:34 PM
Legalizing CCW in schools would be a good idea for otherwise legally qualified individuals. CCW holders are some of the safest firearms owners in the country. Yes, this may be OUR chance to get this changed at the state level.

Many have expressed views in the past that a national CCW law would be a bad idea. It would define minimum standards. In some states, you can pretty much walk into the court house (read appropriate controlling agency) and fill a form out, have the NICs check done and you have your permit approved. It is much more difficult in Tennessee. In particular, it pisses me off that my TN permit is not honored in PA which has much more lax requirements for CCW since I often go to PA where I have family. Getting this changed requires action by the Attorney General in TN and they are too lazy to want to help in such an insignificant issue to them. It takes political pressure to get this done. PA Attorney General office pretty much said no problem, but it has to go through official channels.

marcodelat
April 20, 2007, 12:37 PM
"Who is we?"

My guess is "we" is them.

Prof. A. Wickwire
April 20, 2007, 12:41 PM
What states other than Utah "allow" legal CCW holders to carry on school grounds?

Is there a list somewhere?

Thanks.

Sincerely,

Prof. A. Wickwire

only1asterisk
April 20, 2007, 12:50 PM
It is legal in VA and WV, but is almost universally against school policy. In WV, if a property isn't posted, you are not breaking the law by carrying, but the University could still terminate an employee or expell a student.

David

plexreticle
April 20, 2007, 12:51 PM
"First, we believe in absolutely gun-free, zero-tolerance, totally safe schools. That means no guns in America's schools, period ... with the rare exception of law enforcement officers or trained security personnel." and deranged lunatics.

Igloodude
April 20, 2007, 01:18 PM
So we go from

"First, we believe in absolutely gun-free, zero-tolerance, totally safe schools. That means no guns in America's schools, period ... with the rare exception of law enforcement officers or trained security personnel." - Wayne LaPierre, Executive VP, National Rifle Association

to

"Part of the problem is, is these gun-free zones, they are not working either, because it`s so easy to walk out of that zone and pick up that 9mm."- Paul Helmke, President, Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence

in eight years? :eek:

eliphalet
April 20, 2007, 01:18 PM
...no guns in schools, period.
That's a snippet from Wayne LaPierre

Sad, I remember 25 years ago driving 45 minutes or so down the hill to San Bernardino High School for a once a week, night school gun smith class in the metal shop there. Before the school gun ban of a few years ago the kids in the Idaho town I live close to had their rifles in the back window of their pickup in the school parking lot during hunting season or any other time they so desired.

IMHO the NRA ( which I am a life member of) kinda reminders me of the saying " with friends like this I don't need enemies"
It's not quite that bad but they should fight tooth and nail all gun laws against citizens, and never compromise.

Car Knocker
April 20, 2007, 01:21 PM
Current law forbids any person under 21 from carrying a firearm concealed.
Which law is this? Cite, please?

oldfart
April 20, 2007, 01:30 PM
"As a life member, I am disgusted at the direction that the NRA has taken under his leadership."

Well, "La Pierre" is a French name. :evil:

cbsbyte
April 20, 2007, 02:06 PM
When I am right, I am right. The NRA is a deceitful origination, that pretends to back the RKBA, but compromises all the time behind out backs. Wayne is a prime example of this. I don't know why so many people back the NRA.

Condition Plaid
April 20, 2007, 02:22 PM
Oddly enough, California does not prohibit CCW holders from carrying on school grounds, though individual counties can place that restriction on the license. Mine does not, only stating I may not carry on school grounds 'where prohibited by law'.

JimmyN
April 20, 2007, 04:10 PM
It is legal in VA and WV, but is almost universally against school policy.

That is partially true. In Virginia you can legally carry on a college or university campus, except for the University of Virginia.

You can not carry in the gun-free zones in and around elementary, middle or high schools. If you have a CHP you can carry on school property, but you must remain inside your vehicle. This allows CHP holders to pick-up and drop-off students without breaking the law while in the gun-free zone.

VT policy prohibits carry, but it is policy rather than law. If you are visiting the campus and caught carrying you would, at worst, face trespass charges rather than a firearm offense. Students, faculty and employees would be discharged or expelled if caught with a firearm, per VT policy.

My daughter goes to VT and I carry concealed when visiting there. She however can not as she won't risk being expelled.

only1asterisk
April 20, 2007, 05:11 PM
You can not carry in the gun-free zones in and around elementary, middle or high schools.

True, of course. I thought we were talking about colleges and universities.

David

thereisnospoon
April 20, 2007, 05:17 PM
You need to place the comments by Wayne LaPierre in context. This speech was delivered at the national meeting in Denver CO on May 1, 1999. You will recall the the Columbine tragedy occurred on April 20, 1999. There was talk of having the meeting canceled or moved from Denver at the last minute. The "schools" he is referring to are not colleges and universities; they are elementary, middle and high schools. Current law forbids any person under 21 from carrying a firearm concealed. Most "kids" are under 21 in high school, and the few that might not be could be handled on a case by case basis. I doubt Wayne LaPierre was referring to teachers or administrators.

So, I have no problem with the NRA on this issue. The DATES are most important in this case as far as condemning the NRA.

Once again, the defenders of the NRA get it wrong. Immediately following the Columbine incident is when Wayne, et. al. should have been screaming about arming teachers, not bowing to public opinion.

Give me a break...

wdlsguy
April 20, 2007, 05:43 PM
You can not carry in the gun-free zones in and around elementary, middle or high schools.
Where do I find this in the Virginia Code?

geekWithA.45
April 20, 2007, 05:49 PM
In 1999, the NRA was reeling from the aftermath of Columbine.

They really weren't in any position to say anything else, given the zietgeist of the time, without shooting themselves in the foot.

If the people aren't ready to hear your message, sometimes the right play is to STFU until they're more ready, especially if you have other things to say they will listen to.

These days, post 9/11, post Katrina, post occassional jihaddi induced shooting/sidewalk driving, people are more ready to listen.


Context isn't everything, but it sure counts for a whole lot.

Leanwolf
April 20, 2007, 05:58 PM
30 CAL SLOB - "j warren cassidy was just as bad."

Nope, Cassidy was much worse. I had a fair amount to do with him in 1982, when we in Calif. were fighting to stop "PROP. 15," which the radical left Democrats created and were trying to pass. That initiative would have EVENTUALLY banned all handguns in Calif., and then all long guns.

We won, but Cassidy, who was Exec. V.P. of NRA, a smarmy Boston lawyer, had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the fight.

Thankfully, Harlan Carter and Neal Knox, helped overcome Cassidy's objections to use the NRA to fight that Marxist Socialist plan to completely disarm the worker peasants (not the criminals, of course) of Calif.

FWIW.

L.W.

Malone LaVeigh
April 20, 2007, 05:59 PM
The NRA is too important to let go. Maybe we members should "Zumbo" Wayne and the junta and see if we can get some heads to roll.

Boy, heads rolling, falling on swords... I must be in a medeival mood today.

ebd10
April 20, 2007, 06:00 PM
If the people aren't ready to hear your message, sometimes the right play is to STFU until they're more ready, especially if you have other things to say they will listen to.

Then he should have done just that instead of giving more ammunition to the antigun crowd. LaPierre is a Quisling. Some people just aren't willing to see that, yet...

Leanwolf
April 20, 2007, 06:23 PM
CBSBYTE - "When I am right, I am right. The NRA is a deceitful origination, that pretends to back the RKBA, but compromises all the time behind out backs. Wayne is a prime example of this. I don't know why so many people back the NRA."

You're not right, CBSBYTE. You're dead wrong!

Your hatred of the NRA -- as with some others here-- is quite apparent. Sobeit. You have the Right to be wrong, and express it.

But one thing you, and other NRA haters, had better get through your skulls.

The ONLY, I say again, ONLY reason you own a firearm(s) LEGALLY today, is because the NRA and members have been in a never ending fight to protect your Right to own that firearm(s).

I know. I have been a member of the NRA for many, many years. I've been in the "fight" since late 1963 when the leftists said it was my (collectively) fault that J.F. Kennedy was murdered, because I (collectively) owned a gun. I know the "enemy." The enemy is NOT the NRA.

Of course we've lost some of the fights! No one wins them all. But we've won a lot of them, and you, I, and others, still have the Right to own MOST firearms.

No organization is perfect. But as far as I am concerned, any gun owner who actually believes in his/her Right of self defense, etc., who is NOT a member of the NRA, is nothing more than a liability to us. Just another leech, riding on the backs of those who fight for them.

L.W.

Sniper X
April 20, 2007, 06:33 PM
That mentallity is exactly why we had the Vermont Tech thing happen....exactly. Does anybody here really think that if that wasn't a gun free zone that this would have happened? At the very least it would not have been as bad. Plus, did it being a gun free zone stop HO? NOOOO!

Art Eatman
April 20, 2007, 06:50 PM
Has anybody gone to the NRA website to see if anything CURRENT has been said about VA Tech? Beyond condolences, of course.

If not, bashing is pointless. All it does is encourage the Brady Bunch. Worse, most of the bashing is either out of context or a grandiose "all" sort of foolishness. A denial of what has been done in a positive manner, as though the good things don't matter.

Go back and read Post #11.

Art

VARifleman
April 20, 2007, 07:05 PM
except for the University of Virginia.
This is wrong. VCU is the execption in the law, and it's a tresspass charge.

River Wraith
April 20, 2007, 07:25 PM
As a member of the NRA, I can certainly say that he is not representing my views on this deal. I believe we should arm and train willing teachers and make school shootings a thing of the past.

22-rimfire
April 20, 2007, 07:30 PM
[Cite laws where you can legally carry concealed under 21?] I can't and don't feel like looking the stuff up. To my knowledge, there is no state that allows concealed carry of handguns by anyone under 21. Why don't you correct me if I'm wrong.

Wthout the NRA, IF you could own handguns as a civilian, the guns would be registered; there would be a permit per gun that costs money; and the state would be looking at taking them away.

The NRA deals in politics and the ways of politics are not always so apparent to achieve certain goals.

I doubt that having someone with a concealed handgun in the German classroom at VT would have resulted in no additional casualities. There would still have been some, but may be not as many. If I had my gun on me in this case, I most likely would have had 5 rounds to defend myself. I heard that the perp had some 33 round glock magazines. Guess you would just have to make them count!

Euclidean
April 20, 2007, 07:32 PM
I don't give a damn if it was reeling from Columbine, I have no use for spineless quislings who buckle in the face of adversity in the battle for 2A rights.

This statement is full of so much baloney that flies in the face of everything I believe. To hell with anyone who would make or support such a statement. They can roast in the fires with Zumbo.

If I had an NRA membership, I'd cancel it immediately. I'm off to send a few dollars to the Gunowners of America.

There can never, EVER, at any time, under any circumstances, be a time when a statement like this is allowed to stand.

Any felon caught with a gun for any circumstances goes to jail for 5 years automatically? What in the burning pits of Hades is that about?

thereisnospoon
April 20, 2007, 07:45 PM
No organization is perfect. But as far as I am concerned, any gun owner who actually believes in his/her Right of self defense, etc., who is NOT a member of the NRA, is nothing more than a liability to us. Just another leech, riding on the backs of those who fight for them

I am a member-have to be to be a member of the range locally and because they are doing something, even when it's the wrong thing.

But being a member, I can voice my opinion about the organization just like you can defend it.

For too long, the gun lobby (like the political right) has allowed the gun grabbers (and the political left) to run offense whilst playing defense. It reminds me of the Pittsburgh Steelers...I happen to be a big fan, but too often, they get a lead and then rely on their defense to hold on at all costs.

That strategy is a failing one, even though I love the team, the players and the then coach-nothing was more frustrating than watching them lose a game trying to keep the lead through defense.

Games are won by scoring points, early and often.

I know, someone will say you gotta know when to score points. I think you need to strike while the iron is hot. Current poles show that there is a huge audience paying attention to this one and NOW is when we should be sending the message of peace through superior firepower, not cowardice.

ETA: in case you're wondering, I also spent the day contacting my State Rep regarding a new bill that was introduced in the Alabama Lergislature to require ALL weapons be registered. Wonder if the NRA would help with that:rolleyes:

dasmi
April 20, 2007, 07:50 PM
I'm not an NRA member. Those of you who are should be flooding the NRA home office with emails and phone calls. Don't let them get away with this crap.

22-rimfire
April 20, 2007, 08:09 PM
Personally, I think that many feel the NRA can do no right. How would you challenge the Democratic party on their overall stance on gun control? Not voting for them, right? Well, they are still in office and the biggest anti-gun Dems keep getting re-elected over and over again. For me, I need the NRA. They get my cotributions when I am able to make them.

ebd10
April 20, 2007, 08:13 PM
Wthout the NRA, IF you could own handguns as a civilian, the guns would be registered; there would be a permit per gun that costs money; and the state would be looking at taking them away.

I'm not denying the value of the NRA, just the wisdom of retaining LaPierre. Look, the NRA has made many errors in this fight, some of which are a direct knife to the back of gun owners. When Charlton Heston made his statement about no one should have an assault rifle, that was a time when we should have had a revolution within the organization. LaPierre's failure in 1999 to either stand up or be silent is another example of what's wrong with the NRA. The anti's and their toadies in the legislature use stuff like this as tacit approval to move their agenda forward.

pax
April 20, 2007, 08:37 PM
[Cite laws where you can legally carry concealed under 21?] I can't and don't feel like looking the stuff up. To my knowledge, there is no state that allows concealed carry of handguns by anyone under 21. Why don't you correct me if I'm wrong.

You're out of line.

If you do not KNOW the law, for a fact, you should not just be making stuff up. That's the last thing any of us in the RKBA movement needs right now. "I'll just make stuff up, and force other people to do my homework for me because I'm too dang lazy to look it up for myself, and I'll keep repeating myself, over and over and louder again, whenever anyone points out that I might not know what I'm talking about ...." Oh, that's ugly. That's real ugly.

For those who actually care what the laws are, it's pretty easy to look up.

You can find the law in YOUR state at www.handgunlaw.us or (if it's up) at www.packing.org or at www.lcav.org (they aren't on our side but they have a dang nice interface for that kind of thing).

I suggest that those who are interested in learning the facts and in arguing based upon logic could check the state laws for themselves. Colorado's law has some interesting provisions, for example.

Or you could just keep repeating untruths that you know to be untruths, and then get crabby when other people ask you to verify the accuracy of the untruths you keep repeating.

Oh, concealed carry in public schools, at the elementary through college level? It's legal in Oregon.

pax

JohnBT
April 20, 2007, 09:28 PM
"I think that many feel the NRA can do no right."

Ya think? :)

John
http://membership.nrahq.org

Matt King
April 20, 2007, 09:44 PM
First, we believe in absolutely gun-free, zero-tolerance, totally safe schools. That means no guns in America's schools, period ... with the rare exception of law enforcement officers or trained security personnel.

We believe America's schools should be as safe as America's airports. You can't talk about, much less take, bombs and guns onto airplanes.Such behavior in our schools should be prosecuted just as certainly as such behavior in our airports is prosecuted.


This is the part that burns me up. Does he want to prosecute kids just for talking about guns in school?

David W. Gay
April 20, 2007, 09:54 PM
Current law forbids any person under 21 from carrying a firearm concealed.

Not true. It might be true in some states, but not all of them.

To my knowledge, there is no state that allows concealed carry of handguns by anyone under 21. Why don't you correct me if I'm wrong.

Again, not true.

Indiana allows those 18+ years of age, with a carry permit from anywhere, to carry. Open or concealed.


Immediately following the Columbine incident is when Wayne, et. al. should have been screaming about arming teachers, not bowing to public opinion.

Now that one is TRUE!

Alternately, Mr. LaPierre could have simply expressed condolences of that horrible incident (Columbine), and got on with the primary business of the annual meeting. Current affairs could have been dealt with later.

obxned
April 20, 2007, 10:31 PM
I think that many recent events have caused people to rethink their stand on creating these 'defenseless vicitm' ghettos.

Let's wait and see what now comes out of the NRA.

Green Lantern
April 20, 2007, 10:48 PM
Well, things have certainly changed since 1999. Let's see what they do now.

In the meantime, I would strongly suggest not waiting for the NRA to do jack squat for you. We need to do it ourselves, grassroots style.

Utah allows CCW in schools and universities. If we can do it, so can your state.

Contact your reps, and demand to know why Utah loves their children more than your state does. Demand CCW be allowed in school. Now is the time.

+1, and +2, 3 and 4 while I'm at it!

Times have changes since 1999....

Grassroots *is* the way to go! I'm not bashing the NRA (I'm a member), but ya can't just pay your dues and expect them to do EVERYTHING for ya...

I've written my state Rep and Senator already, pointed to Utah as an example, and gotten back a short but sweet reply from the Rep: "_____, I agree with you!"

dmuff
April 20, 2007, 10:57 PM
Unfortunately it is prohibited in Texas. Something I (not we) need to work on. Congrats to Utah and Correia.

PC 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally,
knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority
of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of
whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's
person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued
under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if
the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or
service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined
by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section
104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional
sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless
the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used
in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241,
Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed
under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license
holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home
administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established
place of religious worship.

(c) In this section, "institution of higher education," "premises," and
"school" have the meanings assigned by Section 481.134, Health and
Safety Code.

481.134[0]. DRUG-FREE ZONES. (a) In this section:
(1) "Minor" means a person who is younger than 18 years
of age.
(2) "Institution of higher education" means any public
or private technical institute, junior college, senior college or
university, medical or dental unit, or other agency of higher
education as defined by Section 61.003, Education Code.

So my daughter at TEXAS A&M is SOL.

22-rimfire
April 20, 2007, 11:19 PM
Or you could just keep repeating untruths that you know to be untruths, and then get crabby when other people ask you to verify the accuracy of the untruths you keep repeating.


Pax, ouch. I didn't mean to get crabby. I just didn't have the time to look the stuff up. I don't intentionally post untruths EVER. I'm also not a lawyer. The person who asked for the citation or reference could just as easily stated that x and y state allowed carry which would have cleared that up and I guess I wouldn't have gotten "crabby". If there are states that allow concealed carry of a handgun for people under 21 years of age, great. I stand corrected. I guess I will look them up now for my own further education. Thanks for the links. I had those bookmarked except for the last one.

Derek Zeanah
April 20, 2007, 11:35 PM
But as far as I am concerned, any gun owner who actually believes in his/her Right of self defense, etc., who is NOT a member of the NRA, is nothing more than a liability to us. Just another leech, riding on the backs of those who fight for them.Great. Last week a member here that I otherwise respect told my I was an enemy of his because I subscribe to a version of monotheism that isn't Christianity or Judaism, and now I'm a liability and a leech. God, how I feel loved. :D

I have been a member once. I paid close attention to how the NRA behaved, and decided I'd never again support them. I've chosen to drive 45 minutes to gun ranges so I can shoot at one that doesn't require NRA membership.

Sorry if that disturbs you. Every time they show up on my scope as part of the problem (like trying to undermine the Parker case before it can reach the Supreme Court) I'm glad I'm not contributing to the problem. They do some good too, but don't pretend it's all good in that organization.

pax
April 21, 2007, 12:22 AM
22-rimfire ~

My apologies. On re-reading, I came across as waaay harsher than I intended. :o Didn't mean to jump down your throat!

pax,

pax

chemist308
April 21, 2007, 12:58 AM
Selling us out for a little public favor! They know better. What do they hope to accomplish? :fire:

Autolycus
April 21, 2007, 02:01 AM
Lets see how they behave on the recent shooting before jumping down their throat. People can change and maybe Wayne has to.

22-rimfire
April 21, 2007, 02:56 AM
Well, my project of the night was to research as best I could the age requirements for concealed carry. Yes, it took hours. Most are 21 years or older. However, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Maine, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont, and Texas (only under certain conditions, mostly for military or police), and perhaps Arkansas have the 18 year old minimum. Kansas and Indiana don't sound right, but that is what I dug up. The "may issue" states often don't list an age requirement. I take that to mean generally you better have a pretty good reason for applying. Hawaii essentially allows no concealed carry unless you are law enforcement or military. Could be wrong on this one. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

I made the comment about PA earlier. Handgunlaw site now lists PA as honoring the TN permit. I had called the Attorney General's office and they had informed me that TN was not on the list. From the PA FAQ, here is the reference below.

15) Any person who possesses a valid and lawfully issued license or permit to carry a firearm which has been issued under the laws of another state, regardless of whether a reciprocity agreement exists between the Commonwealth and the state under section 6109(k), provided:
(i) The state provides a reciprocal privilege for individuals licensed to carry firearms under section 6109.
(ii) The Attorney General has determined that the firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws of this Commonwealth.

I know this is off topic, but I just wanted to go through this as I was surprised to learn there are more than a couple states that issue CCW permits at age 18. Sometimes the age requirement is very difficult to find as you have to go to the actual statute rather than a summary.

wdlsguy
April 21, 2007, 09:17 AM
Handgunlaw site now lists PA as honoring the TN permit. I had called the Attorney General's office and they had informed me that TN was not on the list.
The Pennsylvania Attorney General's web site shows a reciprocity agreement with Tennessee.

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184

eliphalet
April 21, 2007, 10:21 AM
Has anybody gone to the NRA website to see if anything CURRENT has been said about VA Tech? Beyond condolences, of course.

Condolences seems to be what they think is appropriate, and "now is not the time". To quote them.

Boy do I disagree with them on that. Strike while the iron is hot. Now IS the time IMO. Yes we are all sad and sickened over what has happened but the NRA needs take advantage of the attitude I see this bringing out in before very anti circles, and use it to gun rights advantages. Now, not in 6 weeks or 6 months, the pupil's memories are far to short to wait. It seems they have or are so PC worried some one will be offended that they do nothing.

Maybe Nuge should start a side organization that would for sure drop this PC idiocy. I have not been that big of a fan of the guy but he is winning me over.

Green Lantern
April 21, 2007, 10:36 AM
Condolences seems to be what they think is appropriate, and "now is not the time". To quote them.

Of all the....if NOW isn't the time, when WILL be the time for us to TAKE BACK our ability to defend ourselves?!?!?

Yeah, I defended NRA earlier in this thread, but I also agreed "let's see what they say."

Well, what they say - and what they DON'T say - leaves me nauseated...

And if "now is not the time" then HOW do they justify working with Congress to try to pass another "background check" law against the "mentally ill?

22-rimfire
April 21, 2007, 10:38 AM
Wdlsguy: Yeah, I know the site does now. It didn't last year. Not a site I check out every month. I could go on, but this is totally off topic.

fjolnirsson
April 21, 2007, 01:49 PM
What states other than Utah "allow" legal CCW holders to carry on school grounds?


Oregon, among others...

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