School locked down because of employee's gun


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Beren
April 20, 2007, 12:44 PM
School locked down because of employee's gun

Friday, April 20, 2007
The Associated Press

ANITA, Pa. -- A support staff member at a Jefferson County elementary school was placed on leave after he left a handgun in his vehicle, prompting the school to be locked down.

The incident occurred Wednesday at Parkview Elementary School.

The employee, whose name was not released, took the handgun onto school property but left it in his vehicle, said Punxsutawney Area School Superintendent J. Thomas Frantz.

The employee later told someone he had the gun for his own protection, the district said. (Emphasis added - Beren.) The other person promptly told school officials, who immediately locked down the school.

"I don't feel that we are overreacting as we have never dealt with a situation like this before," Mr. Frantz said.

The employee never intended to bring the gun into the school, Mr. Frantz said.

The district sent parents a letter yesterday informing them about what happened.

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redneckdan
April 20, 2007, 12:46 PM
don't ask, don't tell

Jorg Nysgerrig
April 20, 2007, 12:49 PM
The employee later told someone he had the gun for his own protection ... The other person promptly told school officials, who immediately locked down the school.


Remember all those threads recently where people were asking if you should mention carrying?

This is the exact reason that many of us said to keep your damn mouth shut.

ATW525
April 20, 2007, 12:49 PM
don't ask, don't tell

+1

Your personal protection is never anybody's business but your own, so keep it to yourself.

plexreticle
April 20, 2007, 12:50 PM
Are people really that stupid to think a handgun in a car is reason to lockdown a school or are they looking for some kind of media attention?

It's like bizzarro world.

SamTuckerMTNMAN
April 20, 2007, 12:50 PM
and these people are training are kids to be the next generation of capable, critical thinkers, men and women of action, competent and brave. The guy was a dolt for mentioning anything about a gun. I sure wouldnt :neener:

st

Joe Demko
April 20, 2007, 12:51 PM
I'm pretty certain I know everybody involved in this, despite the article mentioning no names.

If the gun-toter is who I believe it to be, he's got a room temperature IQ and a tendency to run his mouth far more than is seemly. It's also not the first time he's done something wrong at work. Don't be in too much of a rush to defend this guy.

Trivia: The name of the village is pronounced un-eye-tuh with the accent on the second syllable. Tiny place. Doesn't even have a gas station or convenience store.

romma
April 20, 2007, 01:34 PM
Obviously he should have kept his mouth shut! But that Tattle-Tale should have their mouth washed out with soap!

LawBot5000
April 20, 2007, 02:41 PM
The other person promptly told school officials, who immediately locked down the school.

This person, and the school officials both need to be beaten with a sock* for leaving their common sense at home. Is it really that difficult to tell the difference between "guy who left his gun in the car" vs "guy who is on a shooting spree?" If someone had been killed in their mad stampede for the door, who would have been held responsible?


*filled with batteries, soap, doorknobs or rocks, your choice

Joe Demko
April 20, 2007, 03:25 PM
If the guy with the gun is who I think he is, you really shouldn't be in this much of a hurry to stick up for him or to denounce somebody for telling the administration that he had violated policy and law.

romma
April 20, 2007, 03:34 PM
u

EricTheBarbarian
April 20, 2007, 03:37 PM
that guys an an idiot. i bet hell never tell anyone again. actually, hes probably fired now and no other school will ever hire him. you got to be careful with letting people know that stuff. he said it was in his car, so someone thought we better tell on him and lock down the school.:banghead: that sucks but the guy should know better than to brag to people.

SamTuckerMTNMAN
April 20, 2007, 03:44 PM
Please note I'm not defending this fellow, I dont know anything about him. But even if he's an SOB going on school lock down and handling it the way they did starts teaching students to fear with irrationality, a gun...whether locked or in car or in hands of a psycho. Parents who don't know much about it come away from it with a bad taste in their mouths. Same thing happened here recently. Just have authorities confiscate it if he's that bad or against rules (as it is in fact). Did they think the car was rigged to auto fire on the school or blow up?:banghead:

gotarheels03
April 20, 2007, 04:40 PM
Gun in a car? OMG the horror! Lets lockdown the school, run around like idiots and send a letter home to parents about something that was essentially a complete non-issue. Its not like he walked into the school with the gun on him. It was in a locked car. As soon as it was determined that it was the property of a school employee with a CCW the schoolday should have gone on as usual.

I mean what are they teaching the kids by doing this? "Kids, if you see a gun anywhere, even in someones car, be afraid, very afraid and run and tell an adult.":banghead:

Ratzinger_p38
April 20, 2007, 04:44 PM
Some people need to use caution on who you tell about your CCL. The guys down at the gun shop are one thing, but dropping a surprise like that a school is another. Perhaps they thought it was a students car?

EricTheBarbarian
April 20, 2007, 05:12 PM
I mean what are they teaching the kids by doing this? "Kids, if you see a gun anywhere, even in someones car, be afraid, very afraid and run and tell an adult."

actually, i think that is what i remember them teaching us in elementary school, might have been during DARE. i remember for sure them telling us guns were never safe and if you take the magazine out you can still get shot because when you put the mag in a round is automatically in it. however, they didnt show us how to clear the chamber or put a round in the chamber. i think it was meant to scare us. the saying i think was stop, dont touch, leave the area, tell an adult. apparently no one was professional enough except them:)

Old Fuff
April 20, 2007, 05:29 PM
I have a question for Joe, who seems to know a lot more then the rest of us. :uhoh:

Apparenty the gent with the gun was known (perhaps well known) to the school's staff and Punxsutawney Area School Superintendent J. Thomas Frantz.

Under the circumstances do you think that a lockdown was necessary?

gotarheels03
April 20, 2007, 05:32 PM
Ah, good old D.A.R.E. - guns are bad, drugs are bad, marijuana is bad, don't use it or you'll ruin your life..... blah blah blah (insert government propaganda here)

Jeff White
April 20, 2007, 05:34 PM
Ya'll can't have it both ways. In this thread the membership is calling for the unvoersity president and police chief to be fired, one of the reasons is because they didn't preemptively lock the school down:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=271347


In this thread the school administration are bliss ninnys. Which is it?

Jeff

tulsamal
April 20, 2007, 05:41 PM
In Oklahoma, the guy would have still been in violation of the law. I can have a gun in my car when I'm just "driving through." When picking up or dropping off my children. I can't leave the car on school grounds with the gun in my possession. But I also can't leave the gun locked in the car on school property while I go inside. If I have a gun with me (duh!) then I have to park "off campus" to be able to actually walk into the school. If my OK teaching certificate ever gets me a job, it will be the same way when I'm teaching.

I've already started writing to various OK government types saying that we need to remove the part of the CCW law that says you can't carry onto school property.

Gregg

wdlsguy
April 20, 2007, 06:01 PM
In this thread the school administration are bliss ninnys. Which is it?
There is a slight difference between keeping a firearm in your vehicle for personal protection, and going on a murderous rampage, no?

gotarheels03
April 20, 2007, 06:29 PM
^ right, especially when the owner of said firearm TOLD THEM it was his gun, explained the circumstances, was an employee of the school and not a mass murderer. Oh yeah, and the big difference. PEOPLE WERENT BEING SHOT. In this case there was a gun locked in a car, not a gun-toting psychopath who'd just murdered 2 people running around campus.

LawBot5000
April 20, 2007, 08:11 PM
Ya'll can't have it both ways.
Is it the same people? I have always argued that the only thing that could have attenuated the impact of the VT shooter would have been armed victims.

Lockdowns only work in prisons and similar locations where the populace is largely contained within locked rooms by default.

Joe Demko
April 20, 2007, 08:55 PM
1. I know so much more than most of you about this because Punxsutawney is my home town, I attended Parkview Elementary, and I started my teaching career in that district.
2. IF the guy in question is who I think it is, I've known him since childhood.
3. IF it is that guy, he's about the dumbest SOB I ever knew in my life and has 0% control over his mouth.
4. IF it is that guy, he's already narrowly dodged getting fired for rather unsavory misconduct at work on a previous occasion. He is no poster child for the RKBA even if you disagree with the no guns on campus rule.

Do I think a lockdown was necessary? Probably not. The guy I know is a retard and a jackass but not homicidal. However, Tom Frantz, from the perspective of this all happening right in the midst of the latest school shooting furor, probably had no other choice.

BTW, the Punxsutawney area, like the rest of rural western PA is awash in guns. The people there aren't afraid of them. Tom Frantz, whom I know, isn't trying to turn them into sheeple. Hell, in that district opening day of buck season is a day off from school. Y'all need to get a grip.

pcosmar
April 20, 2007, 09:28 PM
Joe Demko, Easy please .
You may very well know the guy. I think the other posters were concerned about an over reaction to a NON threat.

Oh and since you're in the area, can you shoot that D*** Ground hog.
http://pcosmar.blogspot.com/

Thanks.

Old Fuff
April 20, 2007, 09:39 PM
Do I think a lockdown was necessary? Probably not. The guy I know is a retard and a jackass but not homicidal. However, Tom Frantz, from the perspective of this all happening right in the midst of the latest school shooting furor, probably had no other choice.

O.K. then, I'll take your word on it. Thanks for the explanation. :cool:

Geno
April 20, 2007, 09:50 PM
As a former school administrator (current graduate professor of educational administration), I have to say that this school administrator seriously over-reacted. I had several staff/students brought firearms to school and left them in their vehicles. My simple comment: "Are they secured?" (Yes) "Okay, Thanks."

Regarding the universiy being a bit too slow, they had just had a double-murder. That called for faster action.

I see a big difference between these two situations.

obxned
April 20, 2007, 10:33 PM
The sky is falling.....the sky is falling.....

nemoaz
April 20, 2007, 11:00 PM
http://www.serialkillercalendar.com/dannyrolling.html

I wasn't at Gainesville at the time of the Danny Rolling murders, but I was told that UF was locked down and classes cancelled after these murders occurred OFF CAMPUS. UF is probably 3 times the size of VT.

I hate to generalize and I'm sure there are some exceptions, but I don't get the sense that the average college "cop" has much experience in this sort of stuff. They were probably drastically over their heads. And the police chief normally answers to the unviersity President, who is normally waaaay more concerned that no prominent alums or professors get speeding tickets or their dope taken away.

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