Oal???? 45 Acp


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joevilla71
April 20, 2007, 08:10 PM
Hello to all,

My question is why there are different OAL for different bullets???

I've loaded and shot about 300 rounds of 45 ACP with 230Grain Plated RN Bullets ... their OAL was between 1.258 and 1.260 per the Speer Manual.

According to everything I've read the maximum cartridge length for 45 ACP is 1.275"

SO, why do the Nosler 185 JHP recommend a max length of 1.195 to 1.200????

Wouldn't it be just fine to load them to any legth as long as they are crimped into position well by the Lee Factory Crimp Die and are less than the maximum 45 ACP cartridge length????

I was wondering because I've loaded about 12 of them without changing the seating die just to see what their legth would be after loading 500 more of the 230 RN ... the legth of the 185 JHP is between 1.250 and 1.255 ... I haven't been to the range yet, but can't see why they wouldn't perform well.

Thanks,
Joevilla71

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Gnarkill
April 20, 2007, 08:27 PM
I've noticed similar things. My hornady 6th edition manual says 1.275 as max, commercial target ammo (rem. UMC, Win.) comes in at about 1.255-1.260. However, all the hornady data says COL is WAYYY shorter, like 1.230. I don't trim or sort my .45 acp brass cause it's cheap plinking ammo, so I get deviation with bullet height. I set my height at about 1.253 which puts everything from about 1.250-1.256. Anything shorter than 1.250 looks stubby and wrong to me.
Hope it helps.

P.S. If you got a rock chucker kit that comes with the speer I would advise against that manual. It kinda sucks. I bought a hornady manual and liked it much better. It has much more data per caliber. The new 7th edition (1 book) is like $27-$30. If you want two books I will sell you my 6th edition Hornady for $30 w/ ship. I don't use the second book, and I kinda want the 7th edition for the rem 6.8 SPC. I payed $40 at cabelas for the 2. Just a thought.

joevilla71
April 20, 2007, 08:41 PM
The manual I have is:
"Speer Reloading Manual Rifle and Pistol Number 13"

I appreciate the offer of the second manual. I may end up taking you up on that, but I want to do a little research first.

Thanks,
Joevilla71

Gnarkill
April 20, 2007, 08:42 PM
That's the same one I have, came with the kit. If you want to check out manuals, what I did was went into cabelas or a local shooting range and they often have store reference copies. I looked into Lyman's, and various others, but the hornady caught my eye.

shadowalker
April 20, 2007, 08:48 PM
You will probably notice the amount of powder differs as well, they may have selected different OALs for accuracy, pressure, feeding issues, or just for the particular bullet design, RN, FP, JHP make a difference for OAL.

You can go longer but I wouldn't go shorter than the specified minimum OAL for a load.

Different reloading manuals even specify different minimum OAL for the same powder with same bullet, usually less powder for a shorter OAL.

Speer publishes a pretty good manual, it doesn't cover all the powders but has good information in it, but it is always good to have more than once resource.

Also visit the powder manufacturer's website, most of them have free reloading data available, Hodgdon has a pretty nice database driven tool that lets you specify parameters.

Shoney
April 20, 2007, 10:44 PM
One obvious answer is that they must fit in the magazine. Longer than max may not fit your mag. Depending on the bullet shape, example large wide mouth hollowpoint, it must be shorter to function in a mag.

There are some bullet/length combinations that will not feed properly in some weapons. A lot of 1911's are/were very picky about length and bullet, due to an unpolished ramp, and very minor adjustments to the length can correct that problem without a lot of polishing of the ramp.

Loading manuals must pick some figure that is a gook average length that will function well in the vast majority of weapons.

Walkalong
April 20, 2007, 10:47 PM
That recommended O.A.L. is a MAX O.A.L. Many JHP's and FP's will load significantly shorter. :)

I load Berry's .45 200 Gr. HP at 1.200 O.A.L.... Berry's .45 185 Gr. SWC at 1.190.

joneb
April 20, 2007, 11:16 PM
My COL using Nosler 185gr JHP is 1.200 ish they work great in my 1911 and Marlin camp carbine. One problem with increasing COL it could make bullet set back easier due to less surface area between the case and the bullet.

LHB1
April 20, 2007, 11:53 PM
One reason for differing OAL's is the different shape, diameter, and curvature of the bullet protruding beyond the case mouth. Remember that this portion of the bullet has to fit into the barrel throat. If a full diameter portion of the bullet sticks too far forward of the case, it may bind in the throat. Note the often quoted rule for 200 gr H&G #68 bullets to be seated with the shoulder about 1/32 inch forward of the case mouth. Seat these bullets too far forward (longer OAL) and you can get interference between the shoulder and front of chamber/rear of barrel throat area.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

teombe
April 21, 2007, 01:12 AM
However, all the hornady data says COL is WAYYY shorter, like 1.230. I don't trim or sort my .45 acp brass cause it's cheap plinking ammo, so I get deviation with bullet height.

Just FYI, Hornady references a COL for their own bullets, which are .020" shorter than, say, your average Winchester 230gr FMJ bullet.

Unless you have a chronograph and work up your loads very carefully, you should use the _exact_ bullet referenced in the data from your manual. Otherwise, you will probably run into problems.

In general, I have found that "Winchester" profile 230gr FMJ bullets are good at around 1.260" for a COL. I load the hornadys I buy to 1.235"

Also, not trimming your .45ACP brass does not affect COL AFAIK. What does, however, are the bullet to bullet variances (since most RN seaters use the ogive as a contact point) and machine tolerances (progressives will give an inherent "slop" in your COL)

joneb
April 21, 2007, 03:34 AM
I think LHB1 nailed it, One reason for differing OAL's is the different shape, diameter, and curvature of the bullet protruding beyond the case mouth. Remember that this portion of the bullet has to fit into the barrel throat. If a full diameter portion of the bullet sticks too far forward of the case, it may bind in the throat. I just checked a Nosler 185gr JHP at various COLs the round would not fully chamber until the COL was 1.207 in my 1911 barrel.
One problem with increasing COL it could make bullet set back easier due to less surface area between the case and the bullet. I resent that remark.

joneb
April 21, 2007, 02:13 PM
One more thing to consider, when seating some deformation may occur giving you a misread of the COL. I would check a reloaded round in the chamber and compare it to a sized shell case. For safety I would disassemble the firearm and just use the barrel for a gauge.

ReloaderFred
April 21, 2007, 02:57 PM
With lighter bullets, the over all length has to be shorter, since in most cases, the bullet is shorter. The critical measurement, as far as pressure is concerned, is the measurement from the base of the bullet to the web of the case, which is the volume of the case, and directly affects the pressures generated when the round goes off. Since it's easier to measure from the forward end of the bullet, that's the measurement offered in the manuals.

What they are in effect doing for you is offering you an easy measurement for determining the volume of the case for the powder charge in the data. That way, you don't have to measure the length of the bullet and the depth of the case to the web, and figure the volume for yourself. It's done for you. Increasing the over all length of the loaded round will reduce the pressure, but decreasing the OAL will increase it. They have offered you the best volume to powder to bullet formula for that particular load, with the case, primer, powder and bullet listed in the data. If you change any of the parts, then you change the formula, with the primer, in most cases, producing the least amount of change.

Hope this helps.

Fred

joevilla71
April 21, 2007, 04:49 PM
Great replies guys ... I am going to test fire my 1911 with the 185 JHP @ 1.255 and see how she functions. I've loaded em with Winchester 231 @ 5.2 grains.

I will report what happens.

Thanks,
Joevilla71

joneb
April 21, 2007, 06:07 PM
Take a measuring tool with you and see if the chambered rounds C.O.L. has decreased.

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