[DonQatU]

Is FOX becoming more objective? Or are they just trying to change their liar image?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,89529,00.html

Don

[JimP]

Dude, that story was sourced as the washington Post - otherwise known as Pravda on the Potomac. What's the matter, you having Dan Rather withdrawals??

[Sir Galahad]

Don, respectfully, get a life. You spend so much time railing about conservatives. If it wasn't for conservatives (whether you like them or not), you wouldn't own a SINGLE FIREARM today. And you wouldn't be on this board. You'd be on something like BasketWeaving.net or CandleSmith.org because there wouldn't be any freakin' guns to talk about!! dee-dee-dee-d-dee-dee...Earth to Don...

[Khornet]

The US commander tells the press that their story was wrong, and this proves Bush lied?

Don, there weren't even any WMD claims in this story.

In other news, the antiwar folks told us ther would be tens of thousands of civilian and US casualties. Nope. That they'd use the WMD that they didn't have because Bush lies. Nope. That there'd be a huge eco-disaster. Nope. That there'd be a quagmire. Nope.

As long as we're holding prewar claims to account, Don, I'd asy your side has lost conclusively. You just haven't come to terms with it yet.

[DonQatU]

The US commander tells the press that their story was wrong, and this proves Bush lied?

I don't think I said anything about Bush lying..... at least not based on this article. Are you reading something into it, Khornet? You think FOX NEWS is a mouthpiece for Bush?

Don, there weren't even any WMD claims in this story.

Didn't say there were........now did I?????!!! Just found it amazing that FOX wouldn't pile on an "al-Qaeda found in Iraq" report! :D

If it wasn't for conservatives (whether you like them or not), you wouldn't own a SINGLE FIREARM today.

Oh, I'm fine with the conservatives, Sir Galahad! I'm just not so fond of the neo-conservatives! Wasn't it reported that Dubya wouldn't let the "Assault Rifle Ban " sunset???!!! :D

Don

[JMag]

Fox IS objectivity when it comes to cable news. S. Hussein WAS a WMD, ask a Kurd, view some video/stills. If they NEVER find chem/bio/nuke ridding the planet of that man was worth it, IMHO. 'Nuff said.

[SkunkApe]

Actually, it is a bit of a quagmire. Forty U.S. soldiers have died since the official "end of major hostilities".

And I'm still waiting for the democratically-elected (as long as we approve) government.

Another recent development in the propganda campaign: Iraqi citizens who attack the foreigner invaders in defense of the homeland are now called "rebels". Honest. I heard this on the news. U.S. troops in Iraq were attacked by Iraqi rebels yesterday.

And speaking of quagmires, what's going on with the fine new government in Afghanistan these days?

[faustulus]

Fox IS objectivity when it comes to cable news.

OK that is a little bit absurd. Just because they take the oppisite slant than other talking heads does not make them objective.
Liberals are not our friends. but neither are conservatives. Both want pretty much the same thing. they want you to rely on the government, they just go about it differently.
Bush senior banned weapons before Clinton had a chance and if given the new bill Bush Jr. will do the same.
The enemy of my enemy should still be our enemy.

[JMag]

What's absurd about "fair and balanced" and Fox's approach of sharing BOTH sides instead of the single (read liberal) side those other guys share? It AIN'T just a jingle. How much balance/fairness do you see on CNN, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, PBS (your tax dollars at work), etc.? Hmm???

I would much rather be given both/all sides than a single/slanted one. That's what has many so agitated over FNC, you just never witnessed hearing the "other" side from the aforementioned sources before they came along. That's why they are accused of being conservative. They report, you get to decide!

[DonQatU]

JMag, you'll love this article since you think FOX is so "fair and balanced"!

You get to decide! :D

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/steinreich8.html

Don

[rrader]

Actually, it is a bit of a quagmire. Forty U.S. soldiers have died since the official "end of major hostilities".

Most of those ( > 20) have been accidental deaths, i.e., drowning, highway accidents, etc...

[DonQatU]

Most of those ( > 20) have been accidental deaths, i.e., drowning, highway accidents, etc...

Oh, well .....then they aren't really dead are they? :rolleyes:

Don

[Mr. James]

Don,

C'mon, now. It's self-evident from rrader's post, he was referring to U.S. troops being killed in combat, vs. killed in unfortunate happenstance.

We tragically lose military men (and women) far too often. Traffic accidents, equipment failures, all manner of foul-ups. We don't attribute them all to our present operation in Iraq.

And yes, of course, we have Ba'athist fanatics willing to kill Americans. They must be stopped, put down, whatever. My dear SkunkApe, did we welcome Nazi partisans as "rebels" as World War Two wound down in Europe? We weren't too respectful - or tolerant - of Japanese hold-outs' God given rights to slaughter Americans, either.

That said, your larger point is well taken.

Peace

[DonQatU]

Mr. James, having been in the military, I understand that accidents also occur in peacetime. But, they occur at a much higher rate operating in combat conditions. As you can probably see! Don

[Leatherneck]

You think FOX NEWS is a mouthpiece for Bush?
No, not the President--conservatives, both neo- and not. Sure is a nice change.:D

TC
TFL Survivor

[DonQatU]

Leatherneck, evidently FOX doesn't speak for me...... a conservative! They are a neo-con propaganda lying machine.

Don

[buzz_knox]

They are a neo-con propaganda lying machine.

So, I suppose you restrict your information sources to CNN, maybe the New York Times, with some Village Voice thrown in for flavor, no?

[Russ]

Is Neo-Conservative how the Moscow Times (NYT), Pravda West (LAT) and the Clintoon News Network (CNN) refer to conservatives these days? Neo Con blah , blah blah.

What a load of crap. I'm getting sick and tired of all these made up liberal news outlet names that are being applied to people who don't tow the socialilst line.

Don, why don't you define Neo Con very precisely for all of us so we can be as smart as you?

While you are at it, could you please explain what Gravitas means too? Wasn't that the previous liberal concoction for something?

[faustulus]

What's absurd about "fair and balanced" and Fox's approach of sharing BOTH sides instead of the single (read liberal) side those other guys share?
They don't give both sides, just the conservative side. TV news is about entertainment not news.

[JMag]

DonQ,

I didn't say FNC is perfect. Far from it. It just happens to present the issues better than anyone else on TV (I use many sources, not just this one)that I've found.

Libertarian thought has some nice points. Lew Rockwell is an interesting character. Has he, and his institute, the right answers on all points? Not likely. For every single point referenced using your link, one could find many more abuses by competing networks, to be sure. One has think, sort through the "fluff & buff" and make up one's own mind.

I, for one, have not honed in on WMD as the primary reason we went to war with Iraq. I am quite sure the reasons were legion. Some quite legit, some possibly not so much. Such is in every war one could postulate.

[JMag]

Faust,

I am assuming by reading your post on FNC that their presentation of the news only clouds the issues for the masses. Hey, when we only had CNN it was easy for those not given to deep thought and appreciation for history, etc.

The new boy, FNC, comes in shares MORE from the right and people start chanting they are a conservative network and the voice for the Republican Party.

I don't get it! What's so wrong with FNC presenting THEIR version of news v. what CNN has blathered on about for over 20 years? Hmm???????

Actually, I cannot fathom why it took so long for a FNC to appear on the scene with the obvious slant of CNN to anyone willing to look past the headlines and the speedy delivery of breaking news.

[Mike Irwin]

Simple, JMag...

The only legitimate view is the liberal view.

Once there's competition that presents an alternative view, and the alternative view is more attractive than the "party line" liberal view, that's when the whining starts.

And it's amusing to behold.

[faustulus]

I don't get it! What's so wrong with FNC presenting THEIR version of news v. what CNN has blathered on about for over 20 years? Hmm???????

Nothing particularly wrong with it, I just don't consider it news. But I don't consider CNN news either. For the most part I find that print media does a better job of presenting the facts -- cavet this isn't 100 percent so keep you examples to yourself -- they tend to attribute better and do a better job of presenting the facts.
However, it is foolish to only use one source for news, the more places you look the better of an idea you can get about the situation on which they are are reporting. You still have to do your homework even in the grownup world.

[JMag]

Faust,

On that last post we can agree. The NYT recent situation proved print media has its warts, too.

So true in getting your news from multiple reliable sources. I have for many years.

[spartacus2002]

Now that Art Bell is off the air, I don't know who to get my news from.

[DonQatU]

Don, why don't you define Neo Con very precisely for all of us so we can be as smart as you?

I got a better idea, Russ! Check these links and read all the articles. Then you'll know all you ever cared to know about neo-cons! :D Don


http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/neo-cons-arch.html

[HBK]

Ooh...conspiracy theory! It's almost as good as Star Trek, but not quite as believable.:rolleyes:

[DonQatU]

Ooh...conspiracy theory! It's almost as good as Star Trek, but not quite as believable.

Is it a "conspiracy" when it's done right out in the open and the perps brag about it?!! :rolleyes:

Oh .......... I get it! "Conspiracy" is one of those buzzwords used to discredit.

It's kind of like branding someone a "Liberal" when they're not.

Actually, I think the newest buzzward for sliming is "Revisionist". I heard the President use that today! :D

Don

[Diesle]

Come one people... debating about which cable news show is more fair and honest than the next is like trying to determine what the meaning of 'is' is. Pure entertainment. Similar to watching a so so movie like Rambo or Star Wars or anything with Steven Segal in it. Moderatly amusing entertainment. Very moderately...

Fox has more entertaining personalites. Thats why I would watch it rather than CNN. But, certainly not because I thought I was going to get the gospel.

As some of you are clearly aware.....

Anyhow,

Diesle

[org]

I still want a definition of "neo conservative." If you're going to throw these BS buzzwords around, the least you can do is tell those of us without the advantage of your worldliness and wisdom what you're talking about. A link isn't a definition.

[Russ]

Don,

Here's one definition:

"An intellectual and political movement in favor of political, economic, and social conservatism that arose in opposition to the perceived liberalism of the 1960s: “The neo-conservatism of the 1980s is a replay of the New Conservatism of the 1950s, which was itself a replay of the New Era philosophy of the 1920s” (Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.)."

Can you enlighten us further? Somehow I don't think so.

In other words, a neo comservative is just a plain old conservative. I find the use of the word irritating becuase it really doesn't mean anything. If we were living in the 1950's the definition would probably substitute the 1890's and on and on and on. Is this Schlesinger's attempt to sound sophisitcated?

If you couldn't tell there has been a liberal bias in T.V. media for the last 50 years then I don't know what cave you have been living in. Because Fox presents, or tries to present the other side is refreshing. Sometimes they get it wrong but they are light years ahead of their competition on TV. Remember, we're talking T.V. news here which is 90% entertainment anyway.

[Master Blaster]

Thats funny I thought that the way the Liberal deomcrats are using the word "NeoCon", it meant a former democrat who had grown disgusted with the democratic party and had seen the light and become a conservative to some small degree.

NeoCon- a democrat who votes republican, because he is nauseated by the democrats lack of practical ideas, and unrelenting attacks on anyone who disagrees with their liberal point of view, and their incessant crybaby whining.:barf:

[DRC]

You crack me up. :D ROFLMAO!!!

The things you come up with.

Take care,

DRC

[DonQatU]

Glad you like my posts, DRC! Here's another funny one for you! I've got to admit, FOX IS entertaining! :D

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blpropaganda-foxnews.htm

Don :D

[bjengs]

Russ saidIf you couldn't tell there has been a liberal bias in T.V. media for the last 50 years then I don't know what cave you have been living in. Because Fox presents, or tries to present the other side is refreshing. Just because FOX presents a different shading of the overall same view is not presenting "the other side," Russ. Both the Left and the Right believe that State control is best in most issues, each with their pet issues of "civil liberty." For example, the Right believes anyone who wants to choose their own recreation/medicine should be eliminated from society, just as the Left believes that anyone wanting to build a house where a spotted owl nests should be eliminated from society.

Neither the Left media nor the Right media questions the assumption that a lot of people need to be "corrected."

Org saidIf you're going to throw these BS buzzwords around, the least you can do is tell those of us without the advantage of your worldliness and wisdom what you're talking about. which was impolite and then Russ saidIn other words, a neo comservative is just a plain old conservative. I find the use of the word irritating becuase it really doesn't mean anything.To insist that a neo-conservative is the same as a conservative is flat out wrong, as the former believes in large, centralized government while the latter (who have really been run out of town, so to speak) believed in limited, Constitutional government. The terms are confusing, true, but hardly inconsistent. Karen De Coster has suggested the use of the term "Hard Wilsonian" for neo-cons and while I can't say it's inaccurate, it's a little strange and could even be taken somewhat suggestively. ;)

Master Blaster added
NeoCon- a democrat who votes republican, because he is nauseated by the democrats lack of practical ideas, and unrelenting attacks on anyone who disagrees with their liberal point of view, and their incessant crybaby whining. and is actually speaking some sense (I recognize the sarcasm). There have been a lot of articles of democrats switching sides since G.W. came into power, many over the Israel issue. The thing on which "whiny" democrats and Wolfowitz-worshippers can agree is that the Federal Government will decide what is best for its proles, er, citizens.

This could be a really fine discussion without all of the sarcasm and cheap shots on either side. I must say, I have found the High Road to be a breath of fresh air as far as gun boards go. I was really getting tired of all of the rednecky b.s. (and you know what I'm talking about) that plagues many other boards. Lots of IQ points floating around here. Could we possibly rise above "my way or the highway," "if you're not pro-war you're a bleeding-heart liberal," and all of that other garbage?

[faustulus]

bjengs

Glad to have you aboard, from your post you seem to question each side equally, that is something rare in todays world.

[Russ]

bjengs,

I find your opinions to be less than worthless if your profile is correct. Why are you here at THR? You obviously don't care too much about firearms or freedom.

You list yourself as an "avowed non voter". The question was posed, "What you to for RKBA", your response again was "avowed non voter". You live in Los Angeles. How wonderful for you.

I lived in California for many years and watched as you "avowed not voters" allowed the State to get to the sorry place it is in today. If you are not interested in being a citizen, then perhaps Mexico will welcome you.

[org]

Russ, I think bjengs is one of those who's convictions are "an inch deep and a mile wide" (apologies to the Platte River) and who is devoted to being "moderate".

If he thinks my post was impolite, he must be trying for an ambassadorship to the UN. They are also noted for being unable to take positions.;)

[Mute]

Anyone who chooses not to vote, HAS NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT ANYTHING IN THE GOVERNMENT.

People who don't vote is the primary reason Kalifornia is such a freaking mess.

The reason why the likes of Gray Davis and Diane Feinstein and Don Perata are in office.

The reason why $2000 custom guns are "unsafe", but $200 POS are still legal for sale.

The reason why, air headed movie stars with criminal records can legally carry a gun, while law abiding citizens have to think twice before they can shoot the criminal who's inside their home threatening them and their family.

The reason why rifles that weigh in excess of 25 lbs and have never been used in a crime in the U.S. could possibly become illegal to own.

[DRC]

Don. STOP it! LOL Stop it you're killing me! :D LMAO. I think I nearly wet myself.

Oh, WOO! Im laughing so hard tears are forming.

Thanks Don I needed the laugh. I do hope you try your hand at being serious one of these days though. ROFLMAO!!!

DRC

[bjengs]

Why does everyone here assume I take no side in this? Because I didn't follow the modus operandi of this thread and launch into some vitriolic personal attack?

I am decidedly against the war. I was also against Clinton's aggression in Kosovo for the same reasons.

[bjengs]

Mute saidAnyone who chooses not to vote, HAS NO RIGHT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT ANYTHING IN THE GOVERNMENT. Well, thank you, Mr. Second Amendment Warrior, for informing me of my rights. I was just perusing the Constitution this morning, and I was sure it defended all sorts of rights that God gave me, but it's clear you have other designs. How was the weekend up at the Clinton estate?

[Mute]

Well, thank you, Mr. Second Amendment Warrior, for informing me of my rights. I was just perusing the Constitution this morning, and I was sure it defended all sorts of rights that God gave me, but it's clear you have other designs. How was the weekend up at the Clinton estate?

Yes, God did give you the right to complain, but not do a damn thing to fix the problems you see. Thank you for your contribution. And btw, I was expressing my opinion, just like you. I did not propose that a law be passed, enforced by the government to disallow someone like you from being just another whiner who loves to be a couch complainer, but won't do anything to address the problems.

[pax]

That's about enough of that. :scrutiny:

Thread closed.

Folks, we love THR because it's a great place to debate issues, to discuss important ideas in a civil manner, to meet fellow gun lovers and learn from each other. Right? :scrutiny:

Those of you who were tossing insults around on this thread, attacking each other instead of each other's ideas, and calling each other names -- you were not adding to the quality of this forum. You were taking away from it, hurting your own reputations and the reputation of this forum.

Don't do it again.

pax

Personalize your sympathies; depersonalize your antipathies. -- W. R. Inge