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newbie222
April 21, 2007, 03:19 AM
the shooting in VT is undoubtedly an enormous tragedy and a black day for USA and the globe allover.

I dont want to get into anything in depth of what happened what didnt happen, what was done and what wasnt done...

as i watch the news they start finding scapegoats to the shooting and to all the violence that happens daily. then the antis stick their head and come up with the old and usual arguments, then there is always hollywood, then there is school and the list goes on.
what ever happened to crazy? why is it that a person cant just be crazy? why is it because of gun control (or lack of), why is it violence on TV? why cant the reason only be "the guy had just lost it, he was freaking crazy". Maybe hollywood might have to do something with it because of the exposure people get and the ideas they can get product of shows like CSI, the unit..ect. someone in their right mind can distinguish between good and evil, real and false..a person who cant do this should be treated medically and usually by law are taken to hospitals and taken out of society. But how to know who's mind is in all its senses and which one isnt? there is NO way this is why gun control has its limits (and increasing it will have no effect on the outcome).
some people are just crazy, some people are mentally unbalanced, socially repressed, live in la-la land and arent able to come down to earth and resolve their problems in a calmer way. I know the just will always pay for the sinner, its not always gun control (lack of), its not always the movies, its not the gun, its the finger that under the power of an un-right mind pulls the trigger...

if there would have been a trained, sane and brave mind with a gun in the school it probably wouldnt have changed the outcome, but it sure as hell might have made a difference. What would the news be saying if a responsible, correct citizen carrying a weapon and would have taken down (or out) the gunner BEFORE he killed 33 people? would he be a hero????

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migoi
April 21, 2007, 03:25 AM
episode of a maniac on a Virginia campus being stopped by regular everyday armed citizens certainly didn't seem to lead to their lionization by the mainstream media. They were barely mentioned and their armed status was mentioned even less.

migoi

newbie222
April 21, 2007, 04:31 AM
what if a student had been "breaking university law" and been CCW, plus he shot and killed Cho before he killed (lets just put a number out there) half of the people?
would this student have gotten a medal? said to be a heroe? or kicked out/suspended from school?
would he/she be used as an example that violence generates more violence and that citizens shouldnt carry guns at all?

damn id love the answer to this one..:banghead:


ill tell you what ill take the death of one (killer) over the death of 32 (innocent bystanders) ANYDAY...

TimboKhan
April 21, 2007, 05:34 AM
would this student have gotten a medal? said to be a heroe? or kicked out/suspended from school?
would he/she be used as an example that violence generates more violence and that citizens shouldnt carry guns at all

Well, in Colorado, it's a pretty simple answer. I give you Colorado state statute 18-12-105.5:

(1) A person commits a class 6 felony if such person knowingly and unlawfully and without legal authority carries, brings, or has in such person's possession a deadly weapon as defined in section 18-1-901 (3) (e) in or on the real estate and all improvements erected thereon of any public or private elementary, middle, junior high, high, or vocational school or any public or private college, university, or seminary, except for the purpose of presenting an authorized public demonstration or exhibition pursuant to instruction in conjunction with an organized school or class, for the purpose of carrying out the necessary duties and functions of an employee of an educational institution that require the use of a deadly weapon, or for the purpose of participation in an authorized extracurricular activity or on an athletic team.

This law would be enforced regardless of the heroism displayed by the person. Heroism isn't a "get out of jail" free card. A search of roughly 30 seconds on google tells me that this would be the case in Virginia as well.

Troutman
April 21, 2007, 12:42 PM
<<read my name before reading >>

How about this for a scenario (similar to yours, with a little variance). Remember, this is hypothetical.
You have a person in that school that carried a firearm. That person took control of the situation, and disarmed the gunman.
In my scenario… the gunman not had taken any causality, when he was confronted by that armed person.
Zero…Dead... Zero…Causalities’ (including gunman), for that matter. Priceless...? Ideal outcome?
Makes one wonder about mans’ laws. This is in reference to laws made in comparison to other states, on how their set, as well as the “no gun zone” law.
Interesting, to see on how the above scenario would have played out, than to find out what could have happened in the situation that stands today.
Would everyone in today’s’ society be happy of the outcome?

TexasRifleman
April 21, 2007, 12:44 PM
Well, in Colorado, it's a pretty simple answer. I give you Colorado state statute 18-12-105.5:

Yes but this happened in Virginia, where the state law ALLOWS carry on college campuses.

The worst case is someone would have been put on academic suspension or expelled. They would not have broken any laws and would be alive.

hoghunting
April 21, 2007, 01:25 PM
Yes but this happened in Virginia, where the state law ALLOWS carry on college campuses.

In January 2006, the Virginia State legislators banned carrying weapons on school campuses.

TimboKhan
April 22, 2007, 06:17 AM
Yes but this happened in Virginia, where the state law ALLOWS carry on college campuses

You know, I actually edited in a comment about Virginia and I must have forgot to save it. Anyway, as mentioned by Hoghunting, it is no longer legal in Virginia.

Actually, now that I reread my post, I did mention it...

A search of roughly 30 seconds on google tells me that this would be the case in Virginia as well.

ConfuseUs
April 22, 2007, 08:27 AM
what ever happened to crazy? why is it that a person cant just be crazy? why is it because of gun control (or lack of), why is it violence on TV? why cant the reason only be "the guy had just lost it, he was freaking crazy".


Actually I see it as a multidimensional set of influences. Unfortunately the MSM and most of the public thinks mostly in terms of f(x)=y and not
f(x,c,t,v,z)=y which is more likely what the VT shooter had going on. For starters Cho Seung Hui was bat feces crazy. The next factor in the mix is that he hated society and saw himself as at war with it. Add in the media violence, I mean, coverage of previous mass murders and the perverse glorification of their perpetrators. Now add the tool of destruction (guns, bombs, poison gas, etc.) and you have one lethal cocktail waiting in the wings.

I think an investigation of Cho Seung Hui will show that not only was he mentally ill, antisocial, narcissistic, and psychopathic (but I repeat myself here) but also that he studied previous school shootings and planned his very carefully. The fact that NBC foolishly broadcast segments of his videotaped rants and pictures guarantees that more of this type of thing will happen. Unfortunately there is no one in the media willing to acknowledge that the way they cover these things is a MAJOR CONTRIBUTING FACTOR. THIS WILL NOT STOP UNTIL THE MEDIA STOPS! :banghead:

Baba Louie
April 22, 2007, 09:43 AM
What would the news be saying if a responsible, correct citizen carrying a weapon and would have taken down (or out) the gunner BEFORE he killed 33 people? would he be a hero????I'd surmise that your "responsible, correct citizen" would be found guilty of assault/homicide due to the fact that Mr. Evil had not yet struck down 1, let alone 32 others. Before the fact, ?Pre-Crime? Didn't someone make a movie about that once? ;)

I would guess the media would have a hay-day blathering on about the campus killing of a poor misguided Korean English Major and we'd all be nannering on about whether it was a good shoot or what would WE do if WE were there that morning or asking "who made him judge jury and executioner". (kinda like I'm doing right now)

newbie222, you used the word "crazy". I'd simply substitute the word, "evil".

We're all trying to understand it and it's really quite simplistic of me to say, "Evil does walk among us" whilst others far wiser than I (and with advertising money to make) ignore evil and try to understand it by calling it crazy and rationalize-quantify-categorize said behavior... all the while making money when possible, and/or newer, more restrictive laws. But that's the media and politico's for ya.

mike101
April 22, 2007, 10:01 AM
"Crazy" isn't PC. What is PC is to blame it on anything else the nannies can think of. Video games (lol), society, bullying, violence on TV and in movies, anti-depressants, his teachers, trans-fat, too much sugar in his diet, and the number one answer, survey says................GUNS !

Titan6
April 22, 2007, 10:06 AM
I think have said crazy in every post about that guy. However the adminstration does share blame for making the campus less safe....

Axman
April 22, 2007, 03:50 PM
Every time something like this happens, the media creates a circus act. I am easlily reminded of the movie "Natural Born Killers" where the media makes psychopaths into instant celebrities. I also recall the Richard Ramirez "groupies". During the 20th century it seems that societies have had "love affairs" with criminals. Even Al Capone thought he was a big celebrity when he was transferred from Levenworth to Alcatraz.

tmajors
April 22, 2007, 04:24 PM
would he be a hero????

There are no heroes in the media any longer. Heroes get a mention on the last page, or a side note, if at all.

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