VT Stand Down Order ?


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pcosmar
April 21, 2007, 08:32 AM
Has anyone else heard anything about this?
http://prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/200407standdown.htm
The response time seem a bit long to me.
Is there any more info on this?

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ctdonath
April 21, 2007, 08:37 AM
Groan. I'm starting to hate conspiracy theories.

In this day of instant gratification a la TV, coupled with suppressive lawsuits, people don't seem to understand how long it takes to coordinate a response to such events - and how fast such event unfold.

Seems there's a subculture that WANTS the gov't to be evilly involved in anything that goes wrong, and looks for, plays up, and makes up anything that can be vaguely attached.

Thin Black Line
April 21, 2007, 08:48 AM
Well, this would be very easy to prove or dispel w/ the tapes from dispatch
and radio traffic that day.....do we use tape anymore or is it all digital....

pcosmar
April 21, 2007, 08:50 AM
ctdonath
Groan. I'm starting to hate conspiracy theories.

I did not say any thing about a conspiracy.
I asked if there was such an order. And wondered why, while shots are being fired, no one drove a truck through the door.

I don't jump on every theory, I didn't even believe the info on the North American Union. Now there is a Mexican Port in Kansas.
I was looking for Info, not, Not Bulls**t.

JohnBT
April 21, 2007, 08:55 AM
How does this rumored theory account for eyewitness reports such as:

Edmund Henneke, associate dean of engineering, said he was in the classroom building and he and colleagues had just read the e-mail advisory regarding the first shooting and were discussing it when he heard gunfire. He said moments later SWAT team members rushed them downstairs "but the doors were chained and padlocked from the inside." They left the building through a construction area that had not been locked.

Thin Black Line
April 21, 2007, 09:02 AM
And wondered why, while shots are being fired, no one drove a truck through the door.


Collateral damage, ie, more dead college students from pulling a Hollywood
stunt like that.

How about busting a basement window instead?

pcosmar
April 21, 2007, 09:13 AM
Edmund Henneke, associate dean of engineering, said he was in the classroom building and he and colleagues had just read the e-mail advisory regarding the first shooting and were discussing it when he heard gunfire. He said moments later SWAT team members rushed them downstairs "but the doors were chained and padlocked from the inside." They left the building through a construction area that had not been locked.

This is exactly what causes questions,
SWAT team rushed them to locked doors. What they forgot how the got in? Had no secured exit?
Moments later... 32 people were executed, more wounded. The killer had more than "a few moments".

And yes i watched video of the waiting, while shots were fired.
My question was about such an order. Not about anything else.

And NO, I do not trust the government. There are many documented reasons not to.

JohnBT
April 21, 2007, 09:19 AM
"What they forgot how the got in?"

Ever occur to you they decided to take a different route out - one that led them away from the shooting.

You know, all this whining about the pics of the cops surrounding the building is pathetic. Of course some cops stayed outside while others went in. You don't send everybody on a mad charge.

John

Double Naught Spy
April 21, 2007, 09:22 AM
I don't jump on every theory, I didn't even believe the info on the North American Union. Now there is a Mexican Port in Kansas.
I was looking for Info, not, Not Bulls**t.

Don't be surprised or shocked. Your source for the conspiracy theory is an internet tabloid that cites the Jones Report for a bunch of its information and the Jones report has articles like
Seung-Hui Cho Was a Mind Controlled Assassin

And they cite Wikipedia for justification that there is a policy for federal control over VT after the last incident, only the Wikipedia article says nothing on the matter.

Nothing in the articles pertaining to the stand down come from direct sources that are credible.

As for your North American Union conspiracy, you have to believe trade agreements make the NAU reality. They don't. I see the oh-so credible World Net Daily News is behind much of the conspiracy theory on that one. I really like their articles on space alien abductions. They are funny!

Thin Black Line
April 21, 2007, 09:31 AM
Can't wait to see how this morsel of info is handled:

"Our family is so very sorry for my brother's unspeakable actions. It is a terrible tragedy for all of us," said Sun-Kyung Cho, a 2004 Princeton University graduate who works as a contractor for a US State Department office that oversees American aid for Iraq.
....
The family's whereabouts are being kept secret with the authorities holding them under law enforcement protection.

pcosmar
April 21, 2007, 09:37 AM
Ever occur to you they decided to take a different route out - one that led them away from the shooting.

The shooting was over, the killer was dead.

pcosmar
April 21, 2007, 09:46 AM
Don't be surprised or shocked. Your source for the conspiracy theory is an internet tabloid that cites the Jones Report for a bunch of its information and the Jones report has articles like

They raised questions.

As for your North American Union conspiracy, you have to believe trade agreements make the NAU reality. They don't. I see the oh-so credible World Net Daily News is behind much of the conspiracy theory on that one. I really like their articles on space alien abductions. They are funny!

The North American Union is well past "conspiracy", construction has begun. And I do not take one source as fact. I go looking for more info.
I would suppose that you believe information released under the Freedom of information Act is just more anti-govt "conspiracy"
After all if CNN and FOX don't cover it, it can't be true.

Hawk
April 21, 2007, 10:24 AM
Wonderful site. In addition to raising questions about VT, they have a full selection of 9/11 CT and one I hadn't previously been aware of:

The Tsunami was a government plot.

Top secret wartime experiments were conducted off the New Zealand coast to perfect a tidal wave bomb believed to be potentially as effective as the atom bomb, a report said yesterday citing declassified files.

We should probably take this to APS or, better yet, loose change.

pcosmar
April 21, 2007, 11:20 AM
I asked a question, not because of a conspiracy theory, But because I have questions and things don't add up correctly.
I know, NEVER question, or don't ask the Wrong question.
Our government only does things for our own good.

Operation Paperclip was the code name under which the U.S. intelligence and military services extricated Nazi scientists from Germany, during and after the final stages of World War II.

They have our best interest at heart,
MKultra
Beginning in the early 1950s, CIA engaged in an extensive program of human experimentation, using drugs, psychological. and other means in search of techniques to control human behavior CIA has so far found no evidence that radiation experiments on humans were part of this program. CIA documents and a 1963 CIA Inspector General (IG) report. however state quite clearly that .MKULTRA was a program "concerned with research and development of chemical. biological. and radiological materials capable of employment in clandestine operations to control human behavior." (emphasis added) The IG report states that "additional avenues to the control of human behavior had been designated . . as appropriate to investigation under the MKULTRA charter, including radiation, electroshock. various fields of psychology, sociology, and anthropology, graphology, harassment substances, and paramilitary devices and materials." (emphasis added)[ 2 ] The program included unwitting experimentation on humans with LSD (lysergic acid diethylamide), brainwashing, and other interrogation methods.

Operation Midnight Climax was an operation initially established by Sidney Gottlieb and placed under the direction of Narcotics Bureau officer George White under the alias of Morgan Hall for the CIA as a sub-project of Project MKULTRA, the CIA mind-control research program that began in the 1950s.

The project consisted of a web of CIA-run safehouses in San Francisco, Marin, and New York. It was established in order to study the effects of LSD on unconsenting individuals. Prostitutes on the CIA payroll were instructed to lure clients back to the safehouses, where they were surreptitiously plied with a wide variety of drugs, including LSD, and monitored behind one-way mirrors. Several significant operational techniques were developed in this theater, including extensive research into sexual blackmail, surveillance technology, and the possible use of mind-altering drugs in field operations.

The safehouses were dramatically scaled back in 1962, following a report by CIA Inspector General John Earman that strongly recommended closing the facility. The San Francisco safehouses were closed in 1965, and the New York City safehouse soon followed in 1966.

The file destruction undertaken at the order of CIA Director Richard Helms and former MKULTRA chief Sidney Gottlieb in 1972 makes a full investigation of claims impossible. However, many records did survive the purge. News of the story began to leak following a landmark story by New York Times reporter Seymour Hersh on illegal CIA domestic surveillance. This report triggered Senate Subcommittee hearings which investigated MKULTRA, and brought Operation Midnight Climax to light.

The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment
For forty years between 1932 and 1972, the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS) conducted an experiment on 399 black men in the late stages of syphilis. These men, for the most part illiterate sharecroppers from one of the poorest counties in Alabama, were never told what disease they were suffering from or of its seriousness. Informed that they were being treated for “bad blood,”1 their doctors had no intention of curing them of syphilis at all. The data for the experiment was to be collected from autopsies of the men, and they were thus deliberately left to degenerate under the ravages of tertiary syphilis—which can include tumors, heart disease, paralysis, blindness, insanity, and death. “As I see it,” one of the doctors involved explained, “we have no further interest in these patients until they die.”

Yeah right, I'm supposed to trust them to tell the truth.
It is more responsible to question what we are told.
There are those in positions of power who seek to control every aspect of our lives.
The 2nd amendment gets in their way.

Hawk
April 21, 2007, 12:09 PM
Hanlan's Razor (paraphrased): Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by normal human fallibility.

My Mom: You are judged by the company you keep.

And the federal stand-down article is keeping company with some seriously strained stuff. It's hard to pick a favorite. Personally, I'm torn between the proof positive that Princess Diana was ritually murdered by elite globalists and the Mason's satanic blood rituals. The 9/11 stuff is so last year.

Nothing wrong with asking questions. It should be encouraged. However, nothing about asking questions implies a need for far-fetched answers as the first refuge.

ctdonath
April 21, 2007, 12:17 PM
Some questions are born of a desire for conspiratorial answers - especially when they demand intricate answers to mundane realities ... and especially when things like Operation Paperclip are trotted out as analogous examples to legitimize the search for non-mundane answers.

The response time seems a bit too long? It always does.

Double Naught Spy
April 21, 2007, 12:54 PM
The North American Union is well past "conspiracy", construction has begun. And I do not take one source as fact. I go looking for more info.
I would suppose that you believe information released under the Freedom of information Act is just more anti-govt "conspiracy"
After all if CNN and FOX don't cover it, it can't be true.

Okay, so you and the boys at MIB (Men in Black) believe the tabloids are the true news sources. Got it.

I think you missed the point. It isn't that if CNN or Fox don't cover it, then it must not be true. The point is that the sources you cite for this stuff are sources that publish on really hokey matters such as mind control conspiracies, big foot, space aliens, the UN buildup in Bastrop, Texas, etc. The generate a mountain of stories of which a huge amount are garbage.

But hey, if you want to look at conspiracies, don't you think it is amazing that Prison Planet cites Alex Jones and Alex Jones advertises on Prison Planet? Don't you think it is amazing that Prison Planet and Alex Jones have this eye witness to things who is named Matt Kazee who just happens to be a reports Blacksburg local and Matt Kazee is from the Truth Movement Network? Don't you think it is amazing that Alex Jones advertising on the Truth Movement Network web site? That is quite the incestuous conspiracy group, each site being a conspiracy site and each citing each other as sources.

Hey, no doubt Matt Kazee is an outstanding eyewitness reporter. Listen for yourself how well he is able to pin down the timing of the events being at 15 after 10:00, or 15 before 10:00, maybe it was 9:30, but sometime around 10:00.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GRYfhqY-4T8
Listen to he call in to the Alex Jones show because the first thing he realized he needed to do when he heard about things was call the show.

pcosmar
April 21, 2007, 01:12 PM
Ok, I will agree that a lot of Conspiracy Theories are silly.
Some, however, have a basis in fact. Others have been proven to be true.
There are those who conspire against the People of the United States.
There is an effort to eliminate the 2nd amendment. To disarm the American public.
There is a effort to track every purchase and every person. The REAL ID is no theory. Tracking chips are not sci-fi. They are a fact.
The North American Union is not a Theory. It is being implemented, without a vote, through backroom deals. The Mexican Port in Kansas is being built.
These are facts, not theories.

I asked a question about a Possibility of a Stand Down Order.
Though this could have been a random event, there is equal chance that it could have been a planed event. I DO NOT Know.
That I do not trust people and powers that have proven time and again, to not have the best honesty or respect for the Constitution, is a given.
I will question everything. I do not trust a dishonest media to tell me the truth.
Oh yeah, what of the second "suspect" they had in custody. Has anyone heard more. Or is that a question that should not be asked.

pcosmar
April 21, 2007, 01:33 PM
Double Naught Spy
Okay, so you and the boys at MIB (Men in Black) believe the tabloids are the true news sources. Got it.
OK,How about these,
http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/24441.html
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2007/cover041207.htm
http://www.channelingreality.com/NAU/NAU_Timeline.pdf
http://www.conservativeusa.org/northamericanunion.htm

Just a couple other sources, there are hundreds. But thats ok.
I know it can be hard to see when your head is under the sand.

Jeff White
April 21, 2007, 02:17 PM
Gee, do you think the complete lack of response in the two hours between the shooting incidents might have been because the police were investigating the first shooting as a typical domestic violence killing and their ESP failed to tell them that it was the opening round for a mass killing? :rolleyes:

During those two hours they were looking for people connected to the victims of the first shooting incident. Why? Because killings by strangers are very rare.

The feds told the locals to stand down? I'd be willing to bet the feds didn't even know about the first shootings at that time. We don't call the FBI every time there is a violent crime.....

Jeff

DMF
April 21, 2007, 02:51 PM
+1, excellent comments Jeff.

pcosmar
April 21, 2007, 03:06 PM
Good comments. I would guess that you have heard nothing.
The question was, Has anybody else heard anything?
So far it is just this one witness who claims to have seen pissed off police officers.
Thats why I was asking.
Simple answer= no.
I do not have an agenda.

Frog48
April 21, 2007, 03:17 PM
Yeah, and the Apollo moon landings were filmed in the Nevada desert at night. :rolleyes:

Come on guys, there are a million legitimate reasons why SWAT didnt storm the campus after the first shootings.

Double Naught Spy
April 21, 2007, 04:09 PM
Okay then, NO, the only sources any of us have seen have been from the conspiracy folks noted in the sources you provided.

Don Gwinn
April 21, 2007, 04:30 PM
I dunno, Jeff, I've seen a lot of cop movies and the feds are constantly taking over and forcing local heroes to stand down.

Jeff White
April 21, 2007, 04:38 PM
Don, I know, it's a problem. Attorney General Gonzales called during a break from his Senate hearing the other day to ask me to stand down on the illegal parking complaints we've been getting on North Madison Street. National security was the reason and I didn't have a need to know more. I don't think that has made Alex Jones' website yet so maybe the secret isn't out. ;) :D

Jeff

mattkazee
April 23, 2007, 02:54 PM
This is Matt Kazee from www.thetruthmovement.net. I called in and covered the Virginia Tech Shootings live on the Alex Jones show. I had two friends shot and one survived. My dear friend Julia Pryde a local activist was killed. I am still in shock and have been mourning all since it happened. I am disgusted at the way CNN has been covering this event. They seem to be "energizing" potential copy-cat situations. They didnt even film the campus ROTC flag being lowered to half mast. I was the only person that filmed it. I will be posting the video today on google video and www.thetruthmovement.net. I read your posts and I understand how a lot of you feel. I too don't like "conspiracy theories" but the bottom line is that the number one crime that is charged in America is "conspiracy". Conspiracy to commit crime. The courts don't take conspiracy lightly... but if you say it in public you get ridiculed and laughed at and blogged about incessantly.
For the record I am a musician/activist and I started www.thetruthmovement.net to shed light on the North American Union, 9/11, and the New World Order's attempts to empower the U.N.
The day of the shooting I decided to call in to the Alex Jones show and give an account because the news was saying 3 were shot and I already had seen at least 10 dead and wounded people. I spoke with an EMT outside and they said that there were "mass killings" they thought 35 dead and maybe as many as 50 wounded.
I don't work for Alex Jones. I do listen to the show often and call in about once a month to ask questions and raise issues that concern me. The infowars team was very kind and concerned and I now consider them friends. This happened, virtually in my back yard and I was thrust in to the middle of this tragedy. I have tried to handle the situation with dignity. I want you all to know that the community of blacksburg is strong and we are one.
My friend Jamel who shot the cell phone video has also been thrust in to the middle of this, he is very concerned of how the media is handling this. Professor Giovanni, who is a real hero has pulled this community together again, she also pulled us together after the Will Morva killings. I am proud to live in Blacksburg but am ashamed that the media has branded Virginia Tech forever to be known as "Virginia Tech Massacre". I just posted this to set the record straight about my backgound and to encourage you all to find the truth in your heart. Please don't bash me because I know about the North American Union and the new currency that is comming.... or that 9/11 could have been prevented....The Virginia Tech shootings could have also been prevented. I want accountability... I want justice... I am sickend by the "Criminal Justice System"... I mean look at it... its not the "Victims Justice System" or the "American Justice System"... no, its the "Criminal Justice System"

In the immortal words of Jordan Maxwell "somebody better wake up and do their homework"

www.jordanmaxwell.com
www.thetruthmovement.net

JohnBT
April 23, 2007, 04:20 PM
"Ever occur to you they decided to take a different route out - one that led them away from the shooting." - me

"The shooting was over, the killer was dead." - you

You assume the shooting was over. Doesn't look like it to me..."he heard gunfire...moments later SWAT team members rushed them downstairs"

"he and colleagues had just read the e-mail advisory regarding the first shooting and were discussing it when he heard gunfire. He said moments later SWAT team members rushed them downstairs "but the doors were chained and padlocked from the inside.""

Surely doesn't sound like the cops were standing around outside waiting for things to calm down, does it?
_______________________

Okay, for the sake of discussion, let's say the shooting was over and they knew they had a dead shooter. The police in the building had no way of knowing that the dead shooter was the ONLY shooter. They wouldn't jump to that conclusion. Did you notice the people leaving the building after the gunfire ended? They had their hands in the air and the police were watching them very closely. They didn't know how many murderers there were.

You know now that there was only one shooter - at least we haven't been told if they've found an accomplice - but at the time nobody knew how many people they were looking for.

It's called hindsight bias - starting at the end of the story and working backwards through it while deciding what everyone should have done if only they'd known what you know now.

John

Jeff White
April 23, 2007, 05:04 PM
mattkazee,
Then should we infer from your post that you have first hand knowledge of the federal interference in the police response that Jones alleges on his website? Perhaps you'd like to share the details with us.

Jeff

El Tejon
April 23, 2007, 05:18 PM
So Virginia cops have Jedi Mind Powers now?:confused:

Uninformed? Sure. Bungling caused by confusion? Kinda. Fat, soft, donut-chomping university cops who most dangerous arrest is a drunken Jared or Seth stumbling back from the bar? *looks across river* Yes.

Human beings attempting to act together always perform like a blanket full of snakes. My vote is Occam's Razor: cops got caught flat-footed.

Cops are just human beings, not superhuman, nor robots nor Jedi Knights. They are simply men with guns.

All the more reason to carry your own gun.

DigitalWarrior
April 23, 2007, 05:23 PM
As a mason, I can assure you that we did not kill Princess Dianna for a blood ritual. I believe the kids say now "We did it for the lulz."

Titan6
April 23, 2007, 05:33 PM
If you look real hard at the cell phone video footage you can see UN paratroopers dropping in all over campus. Or maybe those are snowflakes...

pcosmar
April 23, 2007, 05:34 PM
El Tejon
Cops are just human beings, not superhuman, nor robots nor Jedi Knights. They are simply men with guns.

All the more reason to carry your own gun.

This was my thought also. I had asked if anyone had heard of an order being given, after reading an account of it. Just looking for more info.
I was not looking for some conspiracy.
The thought that someone issued a STUPID order to stand down till others arrived, is not hard to believe.

El Tejon
April 23, 2007, 06:03 PM
Stupid always trump conspiracy.:D

JohnBT
April 23, 2007, 06:42 PM
And yet, the victims' accounts that I have read in the Richmond Times-Dispatch (and elsewhere) frequently talk about the officers being inside the building when the shooting stopped.

Now who am I going to believe, the victims or the folks sitting at home watching tv?

John

Hawk
April 23, 2007, 06:54 PM
As a mason, I can assure you that we did not kill Princess Dianna for a blood ritual. I believe the kids say now "We did it for the lulz."

<sigh>

That wasn't the charge.

Masons have blood rituals and were responsible for Dunblane.

The Illuminati killed Di.

FNORD (http://www.sjgames.com/misc/fnord.html)

Justin
April 23, 2007, 07:03 PM
I've just received a transmission via my sub-dermally-planted communication chip from my shadowy overlords working out of the offices of the military/industrial/entertainment complex that this thread is to be shut down RIGHT NOW.

All of you go back to sleep, there's nothing to see here.

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

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