Need explanation of Straw Sales


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kd7nqb
April 21, 2007, 07:12 PM
OK I am a little confused and a little worried at the same time.

I am less than 3months away from turning 21 and I want a Springfield XD. Now from my research of Oregon law and the federal laws affecting this, I understand
1. I CAN legally purchase a handgun from a private party FTF style transfer.
2.I CAN possess (although not CCW) another persons firearm particularly to and from the range.
3. I CANT purchase a handgun or handgun ammo from a FFL dealer.

My question is if a person I.E. My father or one of my friends purchases a handgun with the intent to later FTF sell it to me, is that is a straw purchase and illegal?

I have no criminal BG or other thing precluding me from owning guns just the age thing.

Secondly, is there a legal difference between my purchasing a firearm from my father that he has already owned and him buying one for the purpose of selling it to me? If so how long would he have to "Hold" it for it not to be a straw purchase.

As usual I understand few if any of you are Oregon Lawyers and I will value the legal advice at exactly what I paid for it.

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tmajors
April 21, 2007, 07:34 PM
I'm not a lawyer by any stretch of the imagination but this is my understanding:

My father or one of my friends purchases a handgun with the intent to later FTF sell it to me, is that is a straw purchase and illegal?

Yes if a friend buys it with the intention of immediately selling it to you that is a "straw purchase" and illegal.

Your father on the other hand since he is your legal guardian I believe can buy it and gift to you with no problems, just don't let anyone know where the money came from :)

Chawbaccer
April 21, 2007, 07:36 PM
since this is in the family, you can probably get away with it. If you give your father money to purchase a firearm it is a straw purchase, your father can buy a gun and gift it to you, as he is the actual purchaser of the firearm. your father would become a dealer if he is buying firearms with the intent of re-selling them.

sample 4473 (http://www.atf.gov/forms/4473/index.htm)

pcosmar
April 21, 2007, 08:31 PM
Ok, This is just plain silly,
The same gun changes hands, from parent to child (or young adult,as the case may be). One way legal,one way not.
If you lie it's ok, if you tell the truth it's not.
Same gun, same hands.
I know, "It's the Law". It is still STUPID.

Car Knocker
April 21, 2007, 08:42 PM
It is still STUPID.
That seems to be a defining characteristic of many gun laws.

Azrael256
April 21, 2007, 08:45 PM
Save your money. An extra three months of savings will get you some ammo, magazines, holsters, whatever. I know that's a looooooong three months (I remember well), but it's the legal way to go, even if it's a silly law.

ElZorro
April 21, 2007, 10:01 PM
If the purchaser can truthfully answer all the questions relating to the purchase, you'd be OK.

BUT, if there's a "little white lie" in intentions, then it's probably not OK.

FFLs have the form, and you can look at it free of charge.

ElZorro

Aguila Blanca
April 21, 2007, 10:25 PM
I am less than 3months away from turning 21 and I want a Springfield XD. Now from my research of Oregon law and the federal laws affecting this, I understand
1. I CAN legally purchase a handgun from a private party FTF style transfer.
2.I CAN possess (although not CCW) another persons firearm particularly to and from the range.
3. I CANT purchase a handgun or handgun ammo from a FFL dealer.

My question is if a person I.E. My father or one of my friends purchases a handgun with the intent to later FTF sell it to me, is that is a straw purchase and illegal?
Technically, if your father bought the gun using HIS money, and you later bought it from him using YOUR money, it isn't a straw purchase. But it's borderline enough that I don't think you should do it when you're only three months away from being able to buy the gun yourself and avoid any question.

Secondly, is there a legal difference between my purchasing a firearm from my father that he has already owned and him buying one for the purpose of selling it to me? If so how long would he have to "Hold" it for it not to be a straw purchase.
Check out the following (compliments of member Zundfolge in another thread):
The ATF has a wonderful little cartoon that explains a Straw Purchase pretty well:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/ffrrg/theater/toon4.html

(several others here http://www.atf.gov/firearms/ffrrg/ )
[EDIT]After viewing the BATFE cartoon again, I have to revise my opinion slightly. They specifically state that a parent may legally purchase a handgun for an offspring under the age of 21 and then give the handgun to the offspring. Note that they stressed "give." If you provide the money, that would make it a straw purchase. If your father buys it with the intention of selling it to you after you turn 21, that's probably legal. If your father buys it with the intention of selling it to you before you turn 21, it sounds to me like a straw purchase, because he is specifically buying it on behalf of a prohibited person ... which is the essence of a straw purchase.

Outlaws
April 22, 2007, 12:06 AM
This is family stuff. Don't worry about it. If it was your dads friend then you are messing around with a criminal act.

I bought a six shooter with the specific intent to give it to my dad for his birthday. You know what? I gave it to him. You reading this ATF agents? I don't care. Come and get me.

kd7nqb
April 22, 2007, 06:14 AM
Ok so there are still two questions left, what about private sales of guns that are already in someone elses possestion? Thats FTF transfer legal at 18. What determines if a person had it and then decided they didnt like it or bought it for me.

All in all I will proboly just wait till my b-day plus it might be cool to go buy a gun for myself ON my birthday.

nvshooter
April 23, 2007, 01:48 AM
If you are almost 21, just wait until the big day, proudly do the American thing and just buy it yourself. It will feel really good to fill out the Form 4473 with your name on it. I did it today, myself. Bought an Arsenal Arms AK-47 underfolder and a Remington 870 Express 12-gauge with twin pistol grips. Feinstein soiled her granny britches, I just know it...

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