Is a shotgun upper for the AR-15 possible?


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PercyShelley
April 22, 2007, 07:32 AM
The saiga-12 got me thinking; would it be possible to make an upper for an AR-15 in 28 gauge or .410?

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50 Shooter
April 22, 2007, 07:49 AM
As long as the round you want to use will fit through the mag well then it should be possible. You'll also need someone to design a mag that will work in the rifle also.

LoadedDrum
April 22, 2007, 09:20 AM
Seems like something MGI could do. Perhaps use their Hydra lower with a new magwell designed for Saiga 410 mags.

highlander 5
April 22, 2007, 09:34 AM
There was a 12 gauge shotgun that looked like an AR called a USAS 12 at one time but it's now a NFA item IIRC

Frog48
April 22, 2007, 05:29 PM
Is the mag well on a normal AR15 big enough for a 12-ga shell? Looking at my Bushmaster, I'm thinking not. Maybe .410 though.

only1asterisk
April 22, 2007, 05:53 PM
You'll need a magazine made to handle rimmed cases and a new barrel extension for the 28 ga.

I think one could do an intenal magazine to hold 4 or 5 28ga shells. I'd buy one just to see the reactions of the local sporting clays guys.

David

jerkface11
April 22, 2007, 06:28 PM
If it wouldn't work in an AR15 it would work in an AR10.

rbernie
April 22, 2007, 07:26 PM
Single shot - could be done on an AR15 platform. But the magwell on the AR15 is 2.3" or thereabouts, and is far too short to fit a 2.75" shotgun shell thru it.

As was mentioned, an AR10 magwell is about three inches in length, and could be used to feed shotgun shells. The rim of 12GA and 20GA shells are too big to fit the side-to-side dimention of the AR-10 magwell, though. You might could get a 28GA or 410 to work.

You might could handload a 458 SOCOM with a couple of 45cal shotshell inserts, to get the same relative effect.... :evil:

only1asterisk
April 22, 2007, 07:43 PM
rbernie,

With a folded crimp, 2.75" 28ga shells average 2.335". I just stuck one in an AR mag. Cutting away the front of the magazine and reworking the feed lips, you might get one or two to feed.

It would expensive and silly, but loads of fun if somebody were to make it work.

David

walking arsenal
April 22, 2007, 08:52 PM
OH! HEY!


I just had a thought! (I'm only allowed one of these a year so no stealing)

Isn't the .45 bushmaster based on .45 acp? And don't .45 LC chambers also allow 410 shotshells?

So in theory wouldn't you be able to design a .410 shotgun around the .45 bushmaster platform?

MINE! I PATENT!

only1asterisk
April 22, 2007, 09:28 PM
The .45 Bushmaster is a reintroduction of the .45 Professional. It is based on the .284 Win case head. The case body is tapered like a .30 Carbine.

It doesn't solve any problems.
The magazine still wouldnt work for more than 1 or 2 2.5" rounds.

MINE! I PATENT!

Even if you have a working idea, you screwed up your chance at a patent when you disclosed it in an open forum.:neener:

David

SDC
April 22, 2007, 09:38 PM
There's no reason you couldn't make an upper with it's own mag well feeding in off the left side (ala the FG42; better yet, make it to accept Saiga mags.)

only1asterisk
April 22, 2007, 09:41 PM
The rim of the 28ga is too big for the bolt. It would have to be some new kind of delayed blowback.

David

Hoppy590
April 22, 2007, 09:50 PM
cool alternative to a saiga. a USAS clone. my understanding is its not a DD
http://www.ameetecarms.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=62

walking arsenal
April 22, 2007, 10:55 PM
David :neener: Duh :neener:

jerkface11
April 22, 2007, 11:03 PM
.50 Beowulf firing shotshells would work. Or you could come up with some straight walled something or other for an AR10 platform. .30-06 cut to the max length with all the taper removed. It wouldn't be a big shotgun but it would have a lot of ammo.

only1asterisk
April 22, 2007, 11:08 PM
I've heard of .450 Marlin comversions for AR10's. You could make 2.75" shotshells out of 458 Lott brass.

David

doubleg
April 23, 2007, 12:14 AM
Is this the begining of a rimless 12 gauge? That could be a very versitle cartidge.

only1asterisk
April 23, 2007, 12:29 AM
HK already beat me to that one, I have a couple of pieces of ammo for the CAW around here somewhere. It has to be rimmed or belted to headspace, that, or be really funny looking.

David

CleverNickname
April 23, 2007, 11:15 AM
Seems like something MGI could do. Perhaps use their Hydra lower with a new magwell designed for Saiga 410 mags.

I asked them about this awhile back, and they said it was possible but that it wasn't tops on their list to develop at this time. I've got an RDIAS and I'd really like a full-auto 12 ga. :)

navyman2015
August 10, 2009, 09:41 PM
Check out YouTube for "AR shotgun upper". Some daring soul decided to go with a belt fed option and while his engineering skills are put to good use I have to wonder how much it would cost. Still, one heck of a concept put into practice. God Bless American ingenuity!

digdeep74
August 10, 2009, 09:53 PM
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=136312756

Number 6
August 11, 2009, 04:55 AM
Better price. ;)

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Safir_Arms_T-14_Classic_.410_Guage_Upper_Half.html

PandaBearBG
August 11, 2009, 05:00 AM
How bout these? I think the last one is based on the Saiga design.

http://i29.tinypic.com/2qvzivb.jpg
http://i28.tinypic.com/123uurs.jpg

Jguy101
August 11, 2009, 05:08 AM
Some company is making a .410 AR for an overseas market; I really don't remember what country it was.

PandaBearBG
August 11, 2009, 05:49 AM
Yeah I've been seeing them pop up the last 6 months or so. Here's one on Gunbroker

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=136280231
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=136899605

I'd just get a saiga though, if your gonna spend that much, might as well go for the 12 gauge.

bigalexe
August 11, 2009, 01:00 PM
Read somewhere some manufacturer was importing a gun under the name AT-14 (i think) that is supposed to be a .410 gauge on the AR platform. Thats all i remember.

okespe04
August 11, 2009, 01:13 PM
They have a .410 ar15 at a local gun shop here in Eugene Oregon. Its called the Baron's Den. Give em a call.

WoofersInc
August 11, 2009, 04:30 PM
Here is the info on the guns. There are starting to show up here in the states.
http://www.ammoland.com/2009/02/18/ati-announces-new-ar-style-410-shotgun/

nalioth
August 11, 2009, 04:51 PM
http://www.novarata.net/images/zombie01-150.png

BRAAAAAIIIIINS

We do love excavating these zombie threads, don't we?

Ky Larry
August 11, 2009, 06:06 PM
Saw a .410 AR-type weapon on one of the Wednesday night gun shows. Can't remember who makes it. Is there really a need for a AR shotgun? Wouldn't a pump do about the same thing? Just curious.

Jason_G
August 11, 2009, 06:19 PM
Some company is making a .410 AR for an overseas market; I really don't remember what country it was.

The rollmark on the one in the gunbroker link said "Turkiye". That's how they spell it over there? :confused: Anyway, I guess Turkey is the country of origin.


Jason

cat9x
August 11, 2009, 06:32 PM
ATI (American Tactical Imports) imports the turkish Safir Arms .410 AR15 shotgun. These have been around for a little while and several can be found on gunbroker.

From ATI's website...

http://www.americantactical.us/at14.html

From the manufacturer's website...

http://www.safirarms.com/eng.html

Some youtube video's of Safir Arms T14...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buZLlYOpqQ4&feature=related

Acera
August 11, 2009, 07:09 PM
Bohica Arms should have a 12 gauge upper out before the end of summer, it will take the Saiga magazines, and Chris has mentioned that he will also have a drum for it.

CleverNickname
August 11, 2009, 09:26 PM
How bout these? I think the last one is based on the Saiga design.

No the XM26 (http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh28-e.htm) is not Saiga-based.

Jorg Nysgerrig
August 11, 2009, 09:31 PM
The rollmark on the one in the gunbroker link said "Turkiye". That's how they spell it over there?
As a matter of fact, yes. Türkiye is Turkish for Turkey.

Jason_G
August 11, 2009, 11:46 PM
As a matter of fact, yes. Türkiye is Turkish for Turkey.

Learn something new everyday! :D ;)

Jason

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