[Drizzt]

Lt. Gov. held at gunpoint in traffic stop

BY BRIAN HICKS
Of The Post and Courier Staff

COLUMBIA--Lieutenant governor is a job that normally gets little publicity, but South Carolina Lt. Gov. Andre Bauer has a chance now for some national exposure.

On World's Wildest Police Chases, that is.

On Tuesday, Bauer led Columbia Police on a moderate-speed chase down Assembly Street here, where he apparently was racing to gavel the Senate into order.

The incident ended with a gun drawn and the lieutenant governor standing with his hands in the air on one of the city's busiest streets, just blocks away from the capitol.

According to Columbia Police Chief Charles Austin, just before noon an officer spotted a gray Ford F-150 pickup truck moving down Assembly and running a red light at the intersection.

The officer hit his blue lights and siren, but reported that the truck sped up -- the officer estimated it was going 55 or 60 mph in a 35 mph zone. Soon, the truck ran a second red light.

But just as in the videos, the chase soon ended. The truck got stopped by traffic congestion near the corner of Assembly and Taylor.

When the truck stopped, the officer wrote in his report, the driver got out of the truck and "ran toward the officer's vehicle in what appeared to be an aggressive manner."

The officer responded by kicking his squad car door open, dropping to one knee and drawing his gun on the lieutenant governor -- just as he's trained to do in such situations.

"The officer ordered him to stop and raise his hands," Austin said.

Bauer wisely obliged.

Bauer, 34, said he got out of the truck to apologize to the police officer and didn't think he was being aggressive.

"I was shocked and horrified that an officer felt it necessary to pull a loaded gun on me at one of the busiest intersections in town," the lieutenant governor said.

Bauer said the incident was bad judgment on his part, that he was running late from trying to cram too many things into the day. He acknowledged that he saw a police car a good distance behind him, but didn't think too much of it initially.

When the officer saw the name on the driver's license, he realized who he had nabbed. He wrote Bauer a ticket anyway for reckless driving. The offense is one of the most serious non-felony moving violations in state law and carries a six-point penalty against the driver's motor vehicle license. Only three other offenses carry a six-point penalty, and a driver's license can be suspended when the driver accumulates 12 points. The bond on the ticket is $415, according to Austin, but the court can set the fine at any amount up to that rate.

Bauer, who was not traveling with a bodyguard, soon saw familiar faces. The Bureau of Protective Services was called to the scene but took no action.

Sid Gaulden, spokesman for the Department of Public Safety, said a BPS agent was dispatched to the scene where he found a police office speaking with the lieutenant governor.

Most lawmakers knew nothing of the incident at the Statehouse Tuesday, and most had no comment on it. As lieutenant governor, Bauer presides over the state Senate, which was scheduled to begin its weekly session Tuesday at "high noon" as senators like to say.

Bauer's office said Tuesday he wasn't looking for special treatment.

"The lieutenant governor was given a traffic ticket today, and he has expressed that he wants to be treated as any other citizen would be treated," said Bauer chief of staff Randy Page.

http://www.charleston.net/stories/050703/sta_07bauer.shtml

[Mike Irwin]

Hehehehe...

Pretty good.

Cop friend of mine wrote a speeding ticket to an associate justice of the Supreme Court a few years ago.

Didn't have to pull gun on him, though...

[seeker_two]

"The lieutenant governor was given a traffic ticket today, and he has expressed that he wants to be treated as any other citizen would be treated," said Bauer chief of staff Randy Page.

So why did the LG just get a ticket? "Any other citizen" would be cooling their heels in lockup right now...:fire:

[TheeBadOne]

Actually, no. At least not in my state. Reckless driving is a misdemeanor good for about the same $$$. It would be very unusual for someone to be locked up for that alone. If the person had no ID that's the only way I think you'd end up cooling your heels.

[Sam Adams]

"I was shocked and horrified that an officer felt it necessary to pull a loaded gun on me at one of the busiest intersections in town," the lieutenant governor said.

Somehow or other, I can't see worrying too much, at the moment someone pointed a gun at me, about how busy the place was at the time. What a contrived statement - typical politico, everything he says has to be scripted.

Notice that he didn't give a rat's hindquarters about the danger he posed to the proles by running 2 lights and speeding well over the limit...it was only "bad judgment." In other words, "I was stupid to get caught." I hope that this guy soon has to find a REAL job. And I hope that the officer in question doesn't suffer any retribution.

[TheeBadOne]

Sam you nailed it. He was "Horrified" the Officer put the public at risk in that one intersection, but not at all bothered by all the people he put at risk in the other intersections and along the streets...:rolleyes:

[brownie0486]

Are not our elected representatives human as well? He made an arror in judgement, he's willing to pay for the error and all is well in "whoville"

seeker_two: Always quick to believe someone is getting preferrential treatment. Your subjective response about lawmakers, cops, here and other threads really shows your anti-establishment bias. A little more objectivity and less jumping onto the bandwagon may better serve you in the future.
Geesh!!!!!

Brownie

[TheeBadOne]

preferrential treatment
None that I can see here. In my state Careless Driving and Reckless Driving are under the same code. Reckless carries a stiffer penalty but has a much higher standard of conduct/proof, thus is harder to write. By writing the man for reckless I don't see how anyone could assume he got a break :confused:

[seeker_two]

On Tuesday, Bauer led Columbia Police on a moderate-speed chase down Assembly Street here, where he apparently was racing to gavel the Senate into order.

From what I read, it seems more like evading arrest.

Now, what would happen to "any other citizen" if they were caught evading arrest?

brownie: If the "establishment" is for giving elected officials preferential treatment and LEO's expensive toys instead of proper training, I guess I'll have to be against it...:rolleyes:

[TheeBadOne]

seeker_two, as you should well know by now, creative writing is the rule rather than the exception with the media. They can write what they want, but I'd rather look at the police report if I wanted to make an informed opinion on what occured. I suspect it wasn't fleeing, but perhaps more failing to yeild to an emergency vehicle in a timely manner. Again, the police report would clear it up. The media is a business, and sells a product, never forget that.

[brownie0486]

You are reading what you want into the story as to preferential treatment [ because it was a politician which you have a problem with due to his being part of the establishment ].

He was cited and will pay the fines. You probably would have been treated the same and cited accordingly. We would give you the benefit of the doubt at to whether you were evading but then we would not question who you knew as "obviously" [ to you ] he shoud have been charged with "evading" arrest ].

BTW--A vehicle that fails to stop for a police officers is called "failure to stop", not resisting arrest. He would not have been charged with your "evading" anything.

As to whether he should have been arrested for "failure to stop", lets see.

I have to ocassionally get some idiot on the road to recognize I'm behind them with emergency equipment [ lights and siren ] up their butt before they pull over. Some just do not pay attention to what is behind them. Some can't hear well [elderly, kids with the boom box blaring, etc. ] Others are not looking in their rearview as they are attending to a child in the front seat, distracted from what they should be focusing on for any number of reason.

Should I arrest them for "evading" [ actually, failing to stop is the charge along with possible other charges which brought the lights on initially ] because they are idiots and not paying attention behind the wheel? A big issue with arrests is "intent".

Did the LtGov actually see the cruiser initially? It would be reasonable to believe not, based on my actual years and hours behind a cruiser seat and doing this type of work, as I have seen it before. The officer determined at the scene that the LtGov was not paying attention and looking in the rear view mirror as he was concentrating on running them lights and getting to work. That judgement on the officers part seems a logical conclusion to me as well, having been a line officer on the streets at one time myself.

You second guess the officer at the scene based on your bias toward those in authority and the LTGovs position. Soon as it was "that" type of situation [ in your mind ] you accused the cop of nonfeasance/misfeasance in the performance of his duties and accuse the LTGov of being given preferential treatment.

Your subjectiveness is only surpassed by your jaded views toward authority. Everything appears to be a conspiracy with you, where it involves anyone other than the "common" man, whatever description you give that.

Now, lets try to keep an objective perspective and open mind here lest we look unintelligent due to our lack of objectivity.

I have a feeling if I pulled you over, I'd know who you were right away. It's only a feeling of course but after years of dealing with individuals on the steets and the resultant court actions and aftermath, I am confident that your attitude would be shining like a beacon and easy to pick up on.

Not that it matters but I have a bet on your age with another who watches the posts and does not respond to them. Care to enlighten us as to how many years you have been with us mortals for you to have developed such a distrust of the establishment?

Brownie

[geekWithA.45]

"I was shocked and horrified that an officer felt it necessary to pull a loaded gun on me at one of the busiest intersections in town," the lieutenant governor said.


I'd be shocked and horrified if the officer did anything else in that situation, and I'd be outright appalled if his sidearm was anything else BUT loaded.

[brownie0486]

geekWithA.45:

What did you expect him to say, he's sheeple for crying out loud.
:D


Brownie

[El Tejon]

Important lesson for THRers who are usually armed: if pulled over, be cool with the coppers. Don't do anything stupid like run at the police.:rolleyes:

Of course, don't do anything irresponsible that would get you pulled over to begin like recklessly endanger lives by speeding (allegedly). You are not the center of the universe, others use the road as well.

[brownie0486]

El Tejon:

Yes, good that someone brought that to the readers attention. It had not been mentioned/commented on his gettign out and approaching LE at the stop.

Thats why the gun was drawn, and rightfully so.

I read it, caught it, and then forgot to post what you have done here .

Good heads up sir.

Brownie

[El Tejon]

brownie, when I was in LE, I had a state trooper tell me, "if they get out of the car, I know they did something really wrong!"

You know, he was right in every case I ever pitched (or caught).

The gun culture likes to quote the wise man in Tejas, "if you look like food, you will be eaten." There is a yang to that, "if you look or act like you should be arrested, you will be arrested."

I Eddie Haskell up real quick!:cool:

[CZ-75]

Always quick to believe someone is getting preferrential treatment. Your subjective response about lawmakers, cops, here and other threads really shows your anti-establishment bias.

Since all these people are employed to serve ME (and other citizens) and not vice versa, I see no reason to hold them in any great esteem or give them any special license. I won't go around doing what these people tell me because of their positions ex officio.

[brownie0486]

There you go again,
We are your servants, okay, if you say so.
Breakfast in bed next I suppose?

You should put their boots on in the morning someday and find out what real work would feel like when at every corner you stand the risk of death or great bodily harm and suffer those consequences all to frequently.

I'll reiterate once more for you:

People sleep peacefully in their beds at night because brave men stand ready to do harm on their behalf.

Just a little respect for the job they perform daily, or is that something you can't grasp the concept of. No feelings at all for the men and women in blue, red and the military for the lives they give up to defend us and keep us safe.

Have you ever stood a post anywhere? Your ungratefullness at the peril they face for you is certainly not something to be proud of.

There is a word for that but it escapes me now.

Unbelievable, just outright unbelievable to my thinking and yet I would still defend your right to speak it in public.

I actually take offense to being called a jack booted thug and you could quickly realize that I learned well from the schools I attended. Then you may have a legitimate reason to give me those handles.

Brownie

[cameroneod]

I too think the guy recieved preferential treatment. Anyone else definately would have recieved evading,obstruction, AND reckless charges. He only got the one charge because the cop "realized who hed pulled over." Im not anti-establishment, just anti THIS establishment. :D

[CZ-75]

Your ungratefullness at the peril they face for you is certainly not something to be proud of.

I'm not grateful to anyone who goes around expecting my thanks (or my obedience, or my money). :barf:

I'm not grateful to those who go around expecting special privileges because they CHOSE to do a dangerous job.

Your attitude tells me all I need to know, which is that you feel ENTITLED to be respected b/c you have a job in LE.

That you don't realize that you are a public SERVANT tells me you wish to be a master.

Unbelievable, just outright unbelievable to my thinking and yet I would still defend your right to speak it in public.

I think I'll call BS on this one. I'm sure you'd like to learn me some manners for our "superiors" in LE with your nightstick, given half a chance.

I actually take offense to being called a jack booted thug and you could quickly realize that I learned well from the schools I attended. Then you may have a legitimate reason to give me those handles.

But those jack boots are just so effective in trampling out the rights of those who won't kowtow to those brave LEOs. You know, the folks at Waco and Ruby Ridge who "rescued" Elian (with MP-5s, no less). You're a graduate of the Lon Horiuchi School of Law Enforcement, right? :barf:

[El Tejon]

I never took offense to people calling me names while I was in LE. It was part of their right to comment on public officials (my state even has a Supreme Court case on it--of course).

People were entitled to their opinion. It was not very smart of them to express their opinion, but their right none-the-less.

Besides, I'm just so darn handsome, "pig" never stuck to me.:D

CZ, as far as the Eltee Guv getting special treatment, don't you think we should wait and see if he is convicted of anything first?

[Orthonym]

Here's something I found in Article I, Section 6, Paragraph 1 of the U.S. Constitution: "...They shall in all cases, except treason, felony and breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attendance at the session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same;"

Two questions:

1. Is there something similar in the S.C. Constitution?

2. Was this a breach of the peace or is the Lt-Gov just being a breech in this piece?:p

[CZ-75]

CZ, as far as the Eltee Guv getting special treatment, don't you think we should wait and see if he is convicted of anything first?

Actually, El Tej, I was never really interested in him to begin with, just the attitude by certain LEOs that we should respect the establishment and those public servants who comprise it for its own sake. This is tantamount to the people existing to serve the state, rather than vice versa. Makes me want to puke. The icing on the cake is when these same folks tell me how wonderful they are and how grateful I should be to them for their choice of vocation.

[DCR]

Orthonym has hit it on the head: most states do have a constitutional or a code section that exempts legislators from arrest or service of process during, going to or going from a legislative session. If he was going to preside over the senate, he is arguably acting in a legislative capacity and thus immune from arrest. May well be immune from the ticket in that state, too. Kind of like the diplomatic immunity we give to the jokers at the U.N. or the "staff" of a foreign embassy.

Judges are mindful, too, of this and of the fact that the legislature fixes the budget for the judiciary branch as well...

I'm betting it's dismissed on a technicality; if not, he'll make a big publicity deal of taking the rap like a regular person.

[TheeBadOne]

CZ-75, by following your posts you seem to hold all LEO's in contempt. One is the same as the other. You don't judge the individual, you lump in the lot. That makes you prejudice, and your posting shows bias. Perhaps you don't even realize it. People are people first and formost.

[Powderman]

People sleep peacefully in their beds at night because brave men stand ready to do harm on their behalf.

And that says it all.

Spot on, my friend. Spot on.

[CZ-75]

CZ-75, by following your posts you seem to hold all LEO's in contempt. One is the same as the other. You don't judge the individual, you lump in the lot. That makes you prejudice, and your posting shows bias. Perhaps you don't even realize it. People are people first and formost.

Funny, but from following your posts, I always get the feeling you're asking for a pat on the back for LE and that LEOs have a good chance of becoming Pope, being infallible and all.

At least then I'd only have to kiss their ring. :neener:



"People are people first and foremost."

Right you are, so we can expect LEOs, like many other groups, to form cliques that hold others in low regard.

[TheeBadOne]

Funny, but from following your posts, I always get the feeling you're asking for a pat on the back for LE and that LEOs have a good chance of becoming Pope, being infallible and all.
CZ-75

Not at all, just asking for a fair shake. Read your posts and show me a fair shake. I'll accept links.

All the best

[Orthonym]

Seems to be a pretty powerful, heady drug! As Chase said to Hawn in the movie, "Cops really DO have the best dope!" As to my own sentiments, I agree with this fellow:

"I don't hate the police, but I am afraid of them."-Alfred Hitchcock.

[brownie0486]

Tell it to the widows of the LE's who have sacrificed their lives in the line of duty so you may live comfortably in peace.

None here mentioned cops being infallable, thats your jaded take on LE's attitudes and another example of your "fair shake" showing the disdain you have for them in general.

Actually I think a few here could not do the job even if they were thrown a bone and given the job of an LE. They would not be able to stand the command structure at the least of it.

Brownie

[TheeBadOne]

Seems to be a pretty powerful, heady drug! As Chase said to Hawn in the movie, "Cops really DO have the best dope!" As to my own sentiments, I agree with this fellow:
And from the movie Superman, "You''ll believe a man can fly"...:rolleyes:

[CZ-75]

Tell it to the widows of the LE's who have sacrificed their lives in the line of duty so you may live comfortably in peace.

Tell it to the widows and surviving family members of those mistakenly, even criminally, shot by LEOs.

I take responsibility for my own safety through exercising my RKBA. I don't expect the police to protect me and SCOTUS has even held that LE has no specific duty to protect an individual.

[TheeBadOne]

Tell it to the widows and surviving family members of those mistakenly, even criminally, shot by LEOs.
Crystal clear view to your insight. Not one hint of consolation/empathy for LEO's and their familys, but plenty for others, EVEN CRIMINALS.
Once again, it's spelled B I A S :rolleyes: :banghead: :rolleyes:

[brownie0486]

TheeBadOne:

Good use of the emoticons at the end of your last post sir.
My sentiments exactly.

Brownie

[CZ-75]

Crystal clear view to your insight. Not one hint of consolation/empathy for LEO's and their familys, but plenty for others, EVEN CRIMINALS.
Once again, it's spelled B I A S

Tell it to the Weaver family. I suppose Vicki Weaver was a criminal?

The only criminals at Ruby Ridge wore badges.

As to empathy, I suppose I should feel bad for the victims someplace like Bangladesh when a quarter-million drown during the storm surge from a cyclone, but I don't. Too abstract. Same with the widows and orphans of whom you speak. The only thing that gets an emotional response from me is malfeasance by those who abuse their power.

I suppose the folks of Tulia, TX have a high opinion of LEOs right about now, too.

[BOBE]

Brownie,
In one of your posts on this thread, you refered to people who make mistakes while driving as idiots (your words) yet you make no reference of just the possibility that the good sen. may have acted in a stupid manner. Double standard? :confused:

[brownie0486]

CZ-75:

Listing a little too far to starboard again I think. Time to stand up and be counted.

Why don't you come on down to the defensive knife class I'm holding in So. Cal in Nov./03. Two days of hands on punishment, ahh, fun, think you can handle it?

As you state: "I take responsibility for my own safety", lets see what you got their son. I'm just a little old man, you should not have any problem with keeping you butt safe from an old man now right? After all you do take responsivbility for your own safety. Any weapons system should be adequate for you.

Don't like knives, let use the sticks; don't like the sticks, how about a cane; don't like the cane, how about unconventional weapons. Don't like any of these choices? Pick one you do like and we can play. Last man standing wins. Each will be responsible for their own medical bills. No running away and looking for an officer to cry to, which you wouldn't do anyway as you take responsibility for your own saftey.

It's pretty easy from the armchair to make those claims [ taking responsibility for ones own safety ], lets see if you have developed the skills to survive on your own [ which you would have as you take the responsibility on yourself to survive ], mano o mano. I promise I won't cry if you won't.

I won't feel bad if you decline as it doesn't meet your scheduling or whatever. If that is the answer, I'd like to hear about all the things you have done to protect yourself and survive. Care to list any at all?

This isn't a challenge, it's an invite to be involved in some "fun" I find too many who believe they take the responsibility to survive upon themselves have very little or none of the training or skills necessary to do so.

Been there and done that, how about you?

Brownie

[Orthonym]

Here, look at this:

"... It is widely thought that modern society made a conscious decision that the civil rights and civil liberties of citizens would be best protected if only professional police had law enforcement powers. But the continued vitality of the power of citizen's arrest-- a substantial private prerogative whose history is firmly rooted in the middle ages and is still available in some form in every American jurisdiction-- proves that citizens did not abandon their rights to self-protection from anxiety about amateurs abusing law enforcement powers. Indeed, it was CUPIDITY, PUSILLANIMITY, & SLOTH (emphasis mine-Orthonym) --not idealism-- that led us to entrust our safety to professional police officers. As the short narrative to follow will amply demonstrate, we delegated law enforcement duties because the average citizen is too busy, too lazy, too indifferent and often too frightened to do the necessary policing himself."
from ppg 30-31, "Take Back Your Neighborhood"
by Richard Neely, Chief Justice, WV Supreme Court
Donald I. Fine, Inc. , New York City 1990
ISBN: 1-55611-182-7
There, I hope that's not too much to be "fair use". Those copyright cops are the REALLY scary ones!

[brownie0486]

Orthonym:

Thanks for the post, had not seen that before but it sounds valid.

Brownie

[brownie0486]

BOBE:

No, no double standard, he was being an idiot driving like that blowing stop signs and endangering the public [ my opinion based on the stated facts of the incident ].

If I had stopped him in my state he would have been charged [ as the facts have been stated which may or not be correct ]with speeding, failure to stop for signals [ lights ], and potentially driving to endanger. Everyone would face the same charges with me as my mandate is to uphold the laws of the Commonwealth and ensure the public safety.

The driving to endager only applies if it is over an amount of speed past the posted limit so I can not say whether he would have been charged with that as well.

In Mass. we have "may" laws and "shall" laws. The may laws mean I have discretion in the matter as to whether to write/arrest or not. The shall laws give me no leeway and I must arrest/act according to the law if a violation of such a statute has occured.

So in my state, I could let you go on the speeding, I could let you go on blowing the stop sign, I could let you go on driving to endanger [ not arrest, but you would be cited at the scene and be making an appearance before the judge to answer that citation], however I can let you leave with the citation without taking your freedom away [ arresting ]you.

BTW--not all mistakes are made by idiots, but in this case as the facts were laid out, he was suffering from serious brainfade [ idiotism ].

Fair enough, covered your question?

Brownie

[CZ-75]

Why don't you come on down to the defensive knife class I'm holding in So. Cal in Nov./03. Two days of hands on punishment, ahh, fun, think you can handle it?

Kali, eh? Or is it MA?

Either way, it explains why you can't tell a libertarian from a leftist and think Statism is the normal order of things.

You buy my plane ticket (from Atlanta) and pay for the room, give me tuition remission, and I'll come. Otherwise, I can spend my vacation leave on vacation with family. Perhaps attend a racing/driving school.

I won't feel bad if you decline as it doesn't meet your scheduling or whatever. If that is the answer, I'd like to hear about all the things you have done to protect yourself and survive. Care to list any at all?

Not hanging with scumbags or going to bad neighborhoods is a start. Carrying is another. Watching potential scumbags like a hawk so they know they aren't going to take me by surprise is another. Having about six inches height over most folks is another. Not using substances than a beer or two every month is another. Avoiding confrontations is another.

[BOBE]

Brownie,
Fair enough. We agree on all points then. :D Bobe

[brownie0486]

Live in Mass and train across the US as needed.

One of my good friends is a libertarian, heads the states party as a coordinator. I can tell what one is, I know the ideology quite well.

Though situational awareness is a start, and carrying is one option [ I assume you meant carry a gun by "carrying" ] it is not enough. Avoidance is good as well but not always possible.

Any h2h, weapons training? Carrying a gun and being able to use it tactically are not the same. I see people in front of me during the knife training that carry and haven't any formal training or practice enough to be proficient in a defensive scenario.

So you really are saying you avoid trouble when possible [ which will never be all the time ], you "carry" and don't drink often. Thats the extent of the way in which you take responsibility for your security?

Lets just assume you know what you are doing with a firearm. Think you can beat the guy with a knife at 10 feet? 20 feet? how about up close and personal in your face distance? No h2h? Just your physical presence which you mentioned as a deterrent [ I presume ]?

Sounds like you have decided on one weapons platform to the exclsuion of all other options available to you. Is that taking responsibility for your own security? Not completely to my thinking.

I can get you before you can yank the heater everytime from 15 feet away with the knife before you can draw and fire. Look up the Tueller drill if you are unfamiliar with it.

Relying on one weapons system all the time for your safety is not taking adequate responsibility for your safety, it's using the firearm as a crutch where you lull yourself into believing the gun beats everything else [consequently the exclusion of that weapon in your bag of tricks ].

So you may feel you take responsibility for your security but we see that you only carry it to the level of the gun used mainly as a mental crutch for lack of real martial skills [ though the gun is martial, I would guess from your posts you have no real skills at self defense of yourself or a family member with it.

As I stated, you have only begun to get serious, and thats if you have some real formal training on the guns.

Here I offer you an opportunity to share the experience of the defensve knife and you want a free ride. Is that a libertarian thing? Isn't that what you are accusing the cops who are issued mp5's of, a free ride on anothers dime?

I gladly paid to go where the best training was made available in each type of weapons system I am adept in. Thousands in travel, tuitions, weapons to get where I stand today, and thats after the military gave me some specific skills as well [and no they weren't free, I paid for that training in blood and sweat ].

I suggest instead of going on vacation with the family this year you attend someones class on a different weapons system than the firearm, or get more time in with a qulality shooting instructor. Either way,until you have more than you have now you are nor considered to be taking responsible measures to further your security. As you'll remember before I heard from you about your martial experience I said that most have very little knowledge in the ways of personal security, and I apparently was correct where you are concerned.

I like big guys in the classes, they usually whine the most when being thrown around. Sorta sounds like fun doesn't it?

Brownie

[Standing Wolf]

The officer hit his blue lights and siren, but reported that the truck sped up -- the officer estimated it was going 55 or 60 mph in a 35 mph zone. Soon, the truck ran a second red light.

Nope. The driver sped up and ran a second red light.

[scottgun]

So Brownie, you are challenging another THR member to a duel because he is not worthy. Us commoners can't hold a candle to the almighty trained cop.

I see where people get the idea that cops are nothing more than egotistical *********s with a badge.

[Orthonym]

That's not an air bag, that's an EXPLODING SAFETY CUSHION!-self

[Orthonym]

so do we call the fire department or do what Gulliver did when the King of Lilliput's palace caught fire?;)

[TheeBadOne]

scottgun

You can call it anyway you see it. To me I see someone putting forth info/ideas as facts, and backing them by saying they "have some knowledge". Brownie is offering a forum in the real world to demonstrate this "knowledge" first hand. On the internet everyone is an expert, in the real world things are much different. I see no problem with brownies post. He didnt' threaten anyone, and as stated it's in a training environment (classroom), not some back alley brawl or pistols at 50 ft. Actully it's quite nice to invite someone to partake in quality training (hard enought to find, harder to afford). Relax :)

All The Best

[brownie0486]

scottgun:
Your words, not mine.
I invited him to a class to see what he had. Does that mean I'm dueling every student in class? Apparently you think so.

Ya, I've run into a few of those guys over the years myself during my travels training LE's.

Better check with that crystal ball again. Seems it may be broken.

Brownie

[scottgun]

I've had a problem with a police officer going through an intersection in an umarked police car almost running me down. When stopped and handcuffed they said why don't you respect the police, I answered "you were in an unmarked police car and almost ran me over" their reply was don't you disrepsect the police, you should know better. I'm sorry, If a car is running me down in an intersection without any lights on, I am going to be ticked.

So I have a predisposition to disliking police officers, its based on experience. It seems all too common.

You are enforcing laws created by corrupt policitans. You are pawns in the game. I can respect your good intentions. But the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[LawDog]

This one is done.

LawDog