Night Sight's- In A Gunfight Useful Or Not?

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's Fellow Member's-

This is just a little survey to see what you think
of Night Sight's in an actual gunfight. As
we all know, volumes have been written about
gunfight's; as well as the perfect sight's. For me,
I find Night Sight's as a useless gimmick. I had
two SIG's with the factory SIGLITE'S, and there
was NO WAY my eyes could ever pick these darn
thing's up in daylight hour's; under TARGET
SHOOTING condition's. I can just imagine what
that would have multiplied into under COMBAT
condition's!

Respectfully,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

[10-Ring]

I've gone full circle (twice) :D As of this posting, I'm in the "useful sometimes" camp. First off, the night sights make it very simple to retrieve my gun in the dark. Secondly, since I am using an hand held light source to ID targets, I just need something to accent the sights. They work fine in this application for me ;)

[444]

I would say that they can't hurt anything and might prove useful under some circumstances. As civilians or police officers, we need to ID our target prior to shooting. If light is that bad, we need to evaluate whether or not we should be shooting. On the other hand, what if that dim figure is actively shooting at us, we can't ID the target, but know he is a threat; seeing the sights would be nice. I presonally have night sights on one of my handguns, but would consider them on others if getting them and installing them was an easier process.

If you have them and end up not being able to use them in a life or death struggle, you are really no worse off than if you didn't have them at all. But, if they came through when you needed them, so much the better.

[355sigfan]

Well as a firearms instuctor, I feel am qualified to give an opinion on the matter.

If you don't think night sights are worthwhile try shooting our night qualification without them then try it with them. Night sights make all the difference between hitting your target and not hitting your target. Sig sights don't have a white band around the crystal and are harder to pick up. Try Trijicon or Mepro light sights. I will not carry a weapon without nightsights. I also will not carry a weapon with out a good combat flashlight or weaponmounted light such as the M3.
PAT

[arinvolvo]

I think that night sites work well in low light, but otherwise are a detriment in normal light.

They dont stand out very well in normal light, and some sights colored with flourescent colors may even work better.

[WonderNine]

I don't like nightsights at all. In most gunfight situations you won't use the sights anyways. Imagine standing there lining up your sights while somebody is shooting at you....uhhhhh no, it's point and shoot for the most part until you get out to 20 yards or so then maybe you start using the sites. And if it's dark I'd rather not have someone seeing me because my nightsights are pointed in the wrong direction. In lighted conditions white dots sights are also easier to see than night sights. IMO thumbs down.

I had a pair on a Beretta 92 I used to have and prefer the white dot sights on any gun. I don't think I'll ever buy night sights again. I can see the comment though about your gun being easier to find in the dark, I know that is true.

[Edward429451]

I've never been in a gunfight where shots were fired but I think they would be useful sometimes. They are good for the bedside table at night (Always place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark)

I dont seem to have any trouble using them in the daytime. I got em on my Colt & Glock both and cant really see a downside to them. I've used them at dusk before, just plinking stuff, not any kind of real test, but they worked. I was hitting stuff.

So I put em on the RH too. When I go camping or hunting, I almost always see stuff when the light is low and shady in the woods. They really shine.

I've heard that argument, "they might make your position by seeing your sights" before and I just dont hardly see this as a detriment. Pretty far fetched I think.

[Sean Smith]

I personally used to think they were great, but kind of lost interest in them.

[Serpico]

I have a front PT on my P7...doesn't hinder me in daylight since it has a white ring around it....also, in daylight, the black would line up anyway...I just love the way it glows at night on my nightstand...kind of comforting even if I probably won't ever see my sights in a real SHTF situation....that's why I got the P7...for it's natural pointability...I practice quite often without lining up the sights and out to about 7 yards it still hits a siloutte...

[tech]

I had kimber put a set on my pro carry and I realy like them easy to see in the day and at night. I think in combat they would be handy but in a S. D. situation where you must identify the target a flashlight would be more usefull, for me that is.

Mike

[jem375]

I get a kick out of someone writing about mounting a flashlight on their handgun.........really nice target to shoot at........night sights would be ok if the target is beyond 15 yards or so, but, at combat range, I do point shooting anyway.............

[Smoke]

As others have said, useful sometimes. SPecifically low light, or backlit situations. When used properly with a flashlight; lose some of their effectiveness.

They are another tool in the box but are neither necessary, nor mandatory.

355sigfanIf you don't think night sights are worthwhile try shooting our night qualification without them then try it with them.

I shot the Nightime Qualifier at Powderhorn (http://www.powderhornedge.com/training.htm) with a Kimber Ultra Carry CDP with Meprolights & shot it agian with a Para Ordnance P14.45 Limited with the stock Bomar type sights. (Both times with a Scorpion Flashlight)

I shot much better with the Para Ordnance. Could it be that gun fit is more important than night sights? I had no problem getting a good sight picture with the wash from my light.

I'm not knocking Tritiums, I have them on two of my guns, but I don't think the are "Must Haves"

Smoke

[Andrew Wyatt]

If you have a flashlight, you don't need night sights because your target will be lit, and you can see your sights.

[curt]

I thing night sights are only useful for situations where you have already identified the target with a light and are sure there are no no-shoots in the area. I don't have a place where i can do night shoots so i'm not confident in my ability to be able to use them as well as i'd like in a defensive situation. That being said many of my firearms have them 'cause...why not?

[Texas Bob]

It seems many people equate using nightsights with total darkness. In the wallyworld parking lot at 10pm nightsights will be useful(if you are more than arms lenght away). I have access to an indoor range where we vary the "light" every week. The "key" is picking out the "set" that works "for you" in both daylight and dark. On my P7 I use an X-Press(formerly AOsights) sights "small dot tritium" front sight matted to an MMC rear sight that has a tritium bar under the rear notch. No one says you have to have front and rear by the same mfg. ie. my Kahr P9 has a trijicon rear sight and a "small dot X-Press" tritium front. I chose a "combination" that "draws" my eye to the fontsight in daylight or darkness. :)

[popbang]

Night sights may help but you still must identify the target. Too many forget the flashlight but buy night sights.

[444]

"I get a kick out of someone writing about mounting a flashlight on their handgun.........really nice target to shoot at........"

I don't think you understand the way the light is used. You don't walk around with the light on. When they see the light, the bullet is right behind it (at substantially less velocity).

[Shmackey]

I vote no. More importantly, you're killing me with the pluralizing apostrophes (http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif). :p

[jem375]

444.......do you remember what the miss ratio's of the LEO's are??....I guess you expect the average guy to do better....the flashlight on the gun or in your hand makes a really good target..

[444]

I am not sure what you are getting at, but I am not a LEO so it doesn't really apply.

[SRYnidan]

I don't know how much more I can add to this except I have been using them for over 20 years now and here are my observations.

1. You need a good flashlight for target ID sometimes and just seeing where you and other things are most of the time.

2. I have never had a problem with them giving away my location but I carry concealed and if they get completely behind me at a range to do so I am all ready in real trouble.

3. There is lots of times and places where seeing my sights against a dark background in a hurry would be tough but where recognising persons known to me would not be problem. All recognising the threat is sometimes even easier (I had no trouble seeing my opponents ball bat or knife and they had no problem figuring out that my Browning high power trumped them both).

4. Murphy is alive and well, and as much as I know I should use a light there will come a time when it is not in my hand when I need it and I will need my pistol right now.

5. I live I Las Vegas and gambling is for suckers you take ever edge you can get even if you think it only improves your odds a little ( I you want to play the odds do't carry a gun the odds are you won't need it).

[RCS]

For me, the white outline around the tritium geen crystal on my front sight (none on my rear sight) allows me to "pick-up" and quickly index my pistol no matter what the ambient lighting conditions are, color of target background, or flashlight used. This includes both indoor and outdoor training scenarios I've gone thru.

regards

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

I've got Meps on both of my centerfire handguns, on the theory that I want all the advantages I can get. Having never been in a gunfight (and hoping to keep it that way!) I don't have personal experience. But they obviously help in low-light situations.

In no-light situations, I wouldn't fire until I could get a light on the target, if at all possible. Cooper Rule 4. (http://www.donath.org/Rants/TheFourRules/)

- pdmoderator

[jem375]

pdmoderator.........do you shoot a handgun with both hands or just one?.....If you have a flashlight in one hand, are you going to drop the flashlight like most do, or shoot one-handed?.....at combat range you can see just as good as the perp can...

[Skunkabilly]

IMO anything that helps me pick up the frontsight, under whatever lighting condition is a Good Thing....

[Blueduck]

Never done my best shooting with them...

[Mute]

Having been through 3 classes with low-light shooting involved, I'd say that at CQB distances, to about 15 yards, not much difference.

It's one of those things that it's better to have it and not need it, than vice versa, but as a non-leo, there are not too many instances I can think of where I'd be able to indentify a person (and identify them as a threat), but not have enough lighting to see my sights. I much rather have a flashlight. During the classes, when were did use flashlights, I had no more trouble picking up the non-tritium sights vs. those that had them.

Suffice it to say, I believe a good flashlight is a must have, especially as twilight approaches. I can probably do without the night sights, but I wouldn't toss them if I had them.

[Handy]

My one experience shooting in very dark conditions at an IDPA shoot leads me to believe that it is hard to hit even at seven yards if you don't know where the gun is pointing.

But, are you ever going to be anywhere that dark and need a CCW? Most cities are awful bright.

[Majic]

In most situations I imagine you would be point shooting, but for the longer shots (up to 15 yard) I can aim by silouetting the handgun in existing light. If there is not enough light to see your handgun then there's not enough light to see your target, so a no shoot situation exists. If the distance is greater than 15 yards then I'm looking for a safe retreat avenue.
The night sights may be benefical to some, but I can do without them.

[Texas Bob]

Even if you "always" carry a flashlight, as I do, you will not have the time to get to it. Gunfights happen "fast", and more importantly at a time and place of someone else's choosing. People practice drawing from concealment using one hand or two, very seldom does anyone practice drawing gun and light, always assuming "both" hands are free. Any SHTF encounter will be very close range and quick, if you survive the first three seconds, then creating "distance" and adding to you "time" increases your survival odds. Here is when "nightsights" become advantagous. Try shooting while retreating in low light while dragging a downed buddy and you will see what I mean.

[Cawdor]

Shmackey,

Great cartoon. However, sometimes it is correct to use an apostrophe to create a plural, as in "mind your p's and q's." Source: A Manual of Style, University of Chicago Press.

As for night sights, they can't hurt and may help.

[Shmackey]

Cawdor,

I use and like Chicago as well. The flower guy didn't seem to have the time to get into acronyms and abbreviations, which is just as well; most of the time, they also shouldn't take apostrophes when pluralized.

I mean "apostrophe's." Wait, no.

[Smoke]

jem375
pdmoderator.........do you shoot a handgun with both hands or just one?.....If you have a flashlight in one hand, are you going to drop the flashlight like most do, or shoot one-handed?.....at combat range you can see just as good as the perp can...

Proper deployment of a flashlight allows you to use a modified two handed grip and still use the light.

[jem375]

smoke.....sure......most LEO's can't even remember how many shots they fired in a stress situation and now you are going to try and hold a flashlight in a two hand hold?......good luck....

[Andrew Wyatt]

*shrug* i was able to do it in my first night match and score pretty well when i was 11.

[Glamdring]

My thinking is that self defense is far more about not getting shot/stabbed/etc than it is about shooting goblins.

Using a flashlight when I think there are goblins around has as much appeal as wearing blaze orange with sewn in reflectors in the same situation would have. It is like putting a shoot me sign on.

I have spent a fair bit of time outside hiking at night, I have also worked 3rd shift far more than I ever wanted to. There are few places outside that I have found to be dark enough at night to need a flashlight for self defense shooting situation (the only place dark enough that comes to mind is wooded areas at night with at least some fog).

I also think most people have a false idea of how well they can ID a target at night using a flashlight that isn't flat and unobstructed. I have taken a surefire out at night in the woods, to attempt to ID animals I can hear. I know what types of critters are around, but you would be surprised how hard it can be to even find something with your light if the eyes aren't facing the light and there is any concealment available to break up the outline. And that is up close (ie under 7 yards).

[jem375]

Andrew....that night match target was not about to shoot back at you either.........

[Andrew Wyatt]

It was a simunitons match.

[JCM298]

My Glock 26 had night sights. I bought it the day before a combination day/night qualification shoot. I fired a perfect score on both. The day shoot did not surprise me but the night shoot made an impression, especially at the 3 & 7 yard lines.
I traded the Glock and wish I could put night sights on my S&W 340,

John

[Smoke]

jem375:

after reading your comments on this thread and another similar thread, I have come to the following conclusions:

1. You haven't practiced much in low light situations.
2. You need to invest in a good gun school.
3. You will be added to my "Ignore list" in the near future.

[jem375]

smoke......regarding your little list ........1. wrong 2. wrong. 3. who cares?