[Island Beretta]

The HK USP has proven to be tough,lightweight, ergonomic, reliable, accurate and high quality. The HK even beats out my Beretta in the areas of toughness, weight and ergonomics. Which other handgun even comes close? I suspect that if the LEM trigger lives up to expectation then HK will be rapidly increasing its market share.

[Andrew Wyatt]

My 1911 seems to be tough, ergonomic, accurate and reliable, and my dad's commander is lightweight in addition to all of those attributes previously stated.


so i'd say the USP is not the only pistol to get the fundimentals right.

[Jeff]

The HK USP has proven to be tough,lightweight, ergonomic, reliable, accurate and high quality.

It should read, The HK USP has proven to be extremely tough, lightweight, ergonomic, extremely reliable, extremely accurate, and of extremely high quality.

Maybe that is what separates it from the pack. But I'm not sure; I haven't fired the others. :D

[Tamara]

Maybe that is what separates it from the pack. But I'm not sure; I haven't fired the others.

:scrutiny:

How do you know it's separate from them, then?

(Myself, I traded my USP 9mm Compact for a SIG P-232 and some buckage.)

[Bren]

Maybe it's the perfect first gun. :p

[MJRW]

The answer to your first question is no. The answer to the second question is many.

[Jeff]

How do you know it's separate from them, then?

Gee, I don't "know" anything about it, that's why I used terms such as "maybe" and "not sure."

I guess I should have printed them in bold .

[megatronrules]

Well no it dosen't get them right it simply duplicates them. It borrowed it's ergonomics from the great 1911 and it's successor the browning hi power. Theres no doubt the hk is a great gun but a browning hi power it's not. :D

P.S. I'am not flamming here just stating my opinion of the subject. I feel the browning hi power is to modern auto pistols what the internal combustion engine is to automobiles. Think about it just about every every auto loader today use a modifyed browning lock up,because it works :D

[WonderNine]

From what I've seen the H&K USP is a very nice gun. I've never fired or handled one myself, but I know they kill the terrorists dead as snot in Counter-strike. :D

I wouldn't mind owning a "Tactical" someday, but for the price of one I could get a NIB BHP with a few factory prebans. I don't think I'd use it for carry because when I carry a full sized other than my Hi-Power "something just doesn't seem right" in the back of my head. I feel like I should have taken the Hi-Power. :uhoh: If SHTF, I'd want the Hi-Power IWB, no other gun could substitute it for that task.

[Tamara]

I don't think I'd use it for carry because when I carry a full sized other than my Hi-Power "something just doesn't seem right" in the back of my head.

Heck, you could probably fit a whole BHP in the mag well of a .45 USP... :uhoh:

[Skunkabilly]

The HK USP has proven to be tough,lightweight, ergonomic, reliable, accurate and high quality. The HK even beats out my Beretta in the areas of toughness, weight and ergonomics. Which other handgun even comes close? I suspect that if the LEM trigger lives up to expectation then HK will be rapidly increasing its market share.

Ergonomics are VERY subjective...My USP's were OK. Most people complain about the Berettas, but they fit me well. I do like the cock and lock though.

As for the Experts and other O-ring models, what's going to happen if and when HK discontinues the models and the O-rings go belly up?

If HK keeps everything in the 800's range, I doubt they're going to get the market back from Glock. Hopefully opening up a US plant will change that, but I'm not going to be too optomistic.

Really would like to try an LEM pistol though, too bad it wasn't offered in 9mm.

[WonderNine]

Heck, you could probably fit a whole BHP in the mag well of a .45 USP...

Ha! I wasn't trying to knock the size difference, although that is definately an issue. But if I carry something other than the Hi-Power I just get the feeling in the back of my head that I don't have the right gun for the job. And IMO nothing points better, feels better, or is more confidence inspiring than a 9mm BHP.

[GSB]

I do like the cock and lock though

The only problem with carrying the USP cocked and locked is that when drawing under stress (in, say, competition) it can be very easy to decock the pistol when you're just trying to disengage the safety. I find that there's just not a big enough detent between safety off and decock (that may just be me). But then, I generally do a DA first shot from the draw anyway so it doesn't matter in my case.

[Shake]

Hey Skunk,

The purported life of the o-ring is 20,000 rounds. Anyone who thinks ahead will have enough on hand to go the distance. . .

Shake

[9x19]

Starting with a mag release that requires a complete shift of my firing grip to actuate... Nope, they didn't get it right for me. :scrutiny:

[Boats]

What's not to like? :D

It's overpriced, over-hyped, overly complex in build, oversized, has an unnecessarily bad trigger, and goes from cocked & locked to decocked in one tactical swipe.

Yep, it's a perfect example of uberpistole hyperbole.:scrutiny:

But hey! It's 100% SOLID SNAKE!!!

[Handy]

As for the Experts and other O-ring models, what's going to happen if and when HK discontinues the models and the O-rings go belly up?

Well, I just bought 2 buffers for an HK pistol dropped in 1984. Maybe it will be okay.

GSB, get the correct varient and you won't have that problem.


The USP is a great pistol that offers just about every feature people say they want, AND a really well designed recoil abatement system.

Only one to get it right? Geez, let's hope not. I have many excellent modern pistols, and have never been more than slightly tempted to buy a USP.

[WonderNine]

Oh no, it has a Taurus PT-92 type safety/decocker? I guess I won't own one even if some rich relative leaves me $1,000,000. I like to ride my thumb on the safety sometimes and I'd be afraid I'd do that by accident in a stressful situation.

[Skunkabilly]

I've never decocked under stress, but pushed it down hard enough to stop the pistol from working. Usually after shooting 1911 for a couple months when I mash down on the safety when pumped up.

An ambidextrous safety fixes this, as the safety on the other side rides on your index finger and doesn't give it any room to decock unintentionally.

Do O-rings dry out over time if I leave it in a safe w/ those dry-packs?

[GSB]

Starting with a mag release that requires a complete shift of my firing grip to actuate

You're not trying to trip the mag release with your thumb, are you? (A number of USP users seem to think that's how you do it) You trip it with your trigger finger. There should be little or no grip change needed, but I suspect that depends on hand size and finger length and so on.

[curt]

AFAIK the only thing the USP has been "proven" to be is expensive.

[tobeat1]

Let me see... high bore axis, pivoting trigger mechanism, overpriced-- nope, not perfect! They are cool though. For the record I do own a USP Tactical. (if for nothing else than the cool factor) :D

[HankB]

IMHO ergonomics on the USP suck . . . YMMV.

But I will say that unlike earlier POS pistols from H&K (the HK4 for one) the USPs I've seen all seem to function reliably.

Chalk this up as another vote for the BHP.

[10-Ring]

IMO, one of the biggest turn-offs to the USP's is the price :( Tough for many to overcome he pric of admission! There are many quality handguns on the market today, HK & the USP/USPc is just one player.
Me, I love my USPs & recommend them as often as people are willing to ask & listen, but I'm not myopic enough to think they're the only playa in da' game :cool:

[krept]

OK, the USPf .45 is my only handgun. I think it is a fantastic pistol for many of the reasons mentioned, but I'm not so sure ergonomics is one of them.

one issue I have is the hump above the backstrap, underneath the hammer. This darn hump makes it impossible for me to get a grip as high as I would like and makes the slide seem like it is a mile high. The hump also prevents me from getting the high thumbs grip that I have come to prefer with 1911s.

I also really don't see the need for the variant one other than familiarizing yourself with the pistol, or if you feel the need to carry with the hammer up and locked. I think decocker-only ala SIG or safety-only ala 1911 makes for a more efficient manual of arms.

The one area HK dropped the ball on is the trigger. The DA pull is a mile long and heavy. Part of the problem I solved with a 12lb mainspring. The real nasty part is the trigger reset. I recently rented a Glock 30 and a Kimber 1911 to compare to my USP. After shooting these two, I found myself short stroking the trigger so much, that I ended up going so far forward to reset that I was removing my finger off the trigger! If someone like Grayguns on HK pro can rework the geometry of the trigger to make the reset shorter, it makes me think that HK's engineers weren't combat shooters.


I have heard that the LEM trigger does not improve the reset.

Finally, the USP .45 is a little large for my hands. The pistol does not feel fast to me like a Glock or 1911 does. The weird location or shape of the control lever coupled with the girth makes me feel too clumsy with the pistol, even though I have a fair amount of presentation practice with it. The Glock 30 I tried felt better fit-wise because I didn't have a safety lever to fumble with. The 1911 fit better because it wasn't a double stack .45.

Probably going to trade it in soon for something that fits better. But other than that, it is an AWESOME pistol. Hits point of aim, low recoil, very soild feel, but still light. The main things that really bugs me are that mountain of a hump above the backstrap and the terrible reset.

[1911Tuner]

I like the USP...but when I got my neighbor and my step-son
up to their necks in bullet casting and the resultant many
thousands of rounds of cheap ammo burned, they both folded up
with frame rails self destructing within a year.



Scratch one USP and one USP Compact. Neighbor traded his
compact in on two loaded Springfields, and step-son decided
to keep his pistol, and put it up. We built a couple of nice
1911's for him, and he's been happily burning powder by the
keg ever since...and the pistols are both more accurate than the USP.

The USP is a nice gun, but doesn't seem to hold up well under
pressure. At least not 500 rounds a week pressure.

Cheers!
Tuner

[raz-0]

well, I bought my USP quite a while ago,a nd only paid about $600 for it.

Over time, I've largely stopped shooting it, mainly because of the trigger not suiting me very well.

pros:
-very reliable. doesn't mind getting dirty, and even when I had a batch of S&B with hard primers, it had one failure to fire, which was a lot better ratio than any other 9mms I ran en equivalent chunk of that lot through.
-control layout. very fast and functional for me as I can reach the mag release with my thumb no problem.

cons:
-very wide plastic trigger, and the DA trigger feel and pull. I can be accurate, but it is work, with other guns it is a much more unconscious process to get the accuracy. can't change it for the match trigger on older guns. (and if you know someone who can, point me at them please)
-top heavy. It's really not much lighter (if not heavier)than my baby eagle, but the baby eagle is balanced so much better it's not even funny. Same goes for my 1911. Or a couple sigs I tried. Heck, even the glock isn't as bad in the top heavy department.

[Shake]

First I've heard of frame rails self destructing.

There are a lot of USPs out there being fired an awful lot that haven't had that problem.

I've fired a USP .40 quite a bit that shows no signs of that type of problem. . .

Got any pics of this destruction? I'd like to see them.

Shake

[Shake]

As for the "problem" of accidentally decocking the USP when switching from "Safe" to "Fire". Is this really that big of a deal?

You end up with a DA trigger pull instead of SA. It isn't as though the firearm ceases to function at a critical time.

Seems like the H&K gets more than it's fair share of criticisim despite being a pretty darn good firearm.

Why?

Not that I care. They work for me and I'll keep shooting them. . .

Shake

[1911Tuner]

Not tryin to bust anybody's bubble...Just reportin' what I saw.
Might have been two exceptions, but not very confidence
inspiring for a hard-use pistol.

The rails began to fuzz up about halfway back, and the
pistols began to exhibit short-cycle issues...The Compact
was worse in this respect. Both were .45's...The smaller
calibers may not have this problem.

'Bout all I know, as my experience with the USP is limited.

Tuner

[Shake]

Believe me, no bubbles will be bust. Got pics?

How were the rails "fuzzing up"? I don't believe the slide even contacts the rails at any point. The slide rides on four small rails inserted into the frame.

Shake

[1911Tuner]

Nope. Neighbor's has been gone nearly two years, and step-son
has likely sold his by now...I'll ask. If he's still got it, I'm sure that
he wouldn't mind me takin a snapshot, though. He may okay
a phone call. Neighbor probably would too.

I'm not tryin' to slam H&K. I think they make a good pistol.
I've just noticed that when plastic and steel ride against
each other, the plastic usually suffers.

Like I said...it may not be representative of the line, but
it was just what I saw.

Cheer-O

T

[Tamara]

Seems like the H&K gets more than it's fair share of criticisim despite being a pretty darn good firearm.

You know, I do have to get a chuckle out of that and other posts of its ilk.

"The people here hate (1911's/USP's/Kel-Tecs/Glocks/SIGs/Berettas/S&W revolvers/whatever)! Go to (NameBrandFanSite.com) to get the real scoop!"

The above is tongue-in-cheek, but I've seen variations on that comment made about 1911's, USP's, Glocks, and S&W revolvers in the last few weeks that I can recall. ;)

[1911Tuner]

You said it Tamara.


I've got a drawerful of busted 1911 parts. Slides...frames...
extractors...firing pins and stops...slide stops. You name it,
I've seen it break...and heard of many others.
I know it can and does happen. I even had a barrel break in half and go downrange once. I thought it was the recoil spring
plug at first. The kicker was that the pistol chambered a round,
returned to battery, and would have fired if I'd pulled the trigger.

When machines are subjected to use, things wear and things break. It's the nature of the beast. Just because I haven't seen
a particular failure doesn't mean that I will say that it
can't happen...I know that it can. When I hear of somebody
hollerin' about a crack in a Colt frame with less than 10,000
rounds, I chalk it up to "Crap Occurs"...and offer my services
to the guy...usually pro bono...unless it's under warranty.

Funny how anal some folks get about their guns, cars, and
huntin' dogs...ain't it?
:confused:

Cheerios! (Honey Nut)

Tuner the non-anal retentive pistolsmith.

[MoNsTeR]

Last I checked, the USP had terrible ergonomics. And a pretty bad trigger too.

[drannor]

I've never understood all the hyperbole about the USP.

Before I purchased my first pistol I rented and fired the Glock 17, USP 9, SIG P226 and Beretta 92FS. (If I had know about the CZ75 it would've been on the list as well) After shooting all of those I decided on the SIG. The USP didn't fit my hand, I didn't care for the postioning of the controls, and something about it's balance just didn't work for me.

In the interim I've acquired a Glock, 1911s, CZs, SIGs galore, a 92FS, a couple of wheel guns and most recently a BHP. Rented a USP 45, and also had the chance to shoot the expert model. Still didn't do anything for me.

I'm sure it's a quality product, but it's not the end all of pistols by any means. If an HK ever comes home with me it will probably be a P7 or something chambered in a rifle caliber. :D

[Bobarino]

on the frame rail "fuzzing" issue: there are four metal rail sections, two on each side that tend to get plastic flash from the manufacturing process that covers them. its not intended to be there. it wears off with use. mine showed a little fraying too, but i just took a razor blade and cut off the flash and exposed the metal under it like its supposed to be. i'm sure someone out there will come up with something like "such an expensive gun shouldn't need to cleaned up like that." but hey, thats the way it goes. happens to the best of them.

by the way, i agree with the thread started. for me at least, the USP compact does it all and does it well. i must have lucked out, my trigger is pretty dang good.

Bobby

[GSB]

As for the "problem" of accidentally decocking the USP when switching from "Safe" to "Fire". Is this really that big of a deal?

It depends. I would say that if you are in competition, it would be a big deal. It's one more last-nanosecond mental adjustment and unexpected interruption you don't need. Probably best to practice with a DA first shot or, as others mentioned, get a different setup.

[1911Tuner]

Bobarino may have just explained it.
Not having very much experience with the USP's, I wasn't able to tell the boys that it was a natural occurence, and was no big deal.

See? These forums are informative. All ya gotta do is
hang on and wait. Somewhere, SOME body has an answer.
Would that everybody just learn to hold on and be patient,
everybody benefits. When folks start gettin' their skivvies in
a knot, it all falls apart.

Kudos Bob. Well done!

Onward....
Tuner

[Shake]

You know 1911Tuner and Tamara, you're right. . . I'm anal AND full of it.

Shake

[Boats]

Tam, you know, hate is a pretty strong word, but in my case it is way worse than that.:D

[Shake]

Yeah, what's new from you Boats? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Island Beretta]

Guys,

Thanks for the input so far!! For myself I like my Beretta over the HK USP and in my neck of the woods, Beretta was almost half the price of the USP. That said the HK USP seems to have gotten a higher overall score on the fundamentals. I don't think muzzle flip, trigger reset can be viewed as fundamentals and these can be managed by learning how your gun shoots.

The BHP is an all-time favourite and is the gun I admire/love the most, nevertheless it is not as tough or reliable as the HK. Maybe some other time we can do a survey on grip ergonomics but the HK grip is very ergonomic and in fact attempts to mimic that of the BHP. The point about the decocker is moot as the USP has several variants. The modular nature of its firing mechanism is another big factor though I do not view it as fundamental.

By the close of this discussion I am sure you would really see that the HK USP has the edge in addressing all the fundamentals. Maybe its a jack of all trades, master of none, but overall ;)

[Andrew Wyatt]

The BHP is an all-time favourite and is the gun I admire/love the most, nevertheless it is not as tough or reliable as the HK.


heh. that's a good one. you're a funny, funny, man.

[Boats]

What's new Shake?

I see that your skin thickness hasn't improved of late.:evil:

It's a hot night. The mind races. A 17 hour flight to La Paz is etched in red traces on my eyeballs. . . .oh nevermind!:D

[1911Tuner]

Shake said:

You know 1911Tuner and Tamara, you're right. . . I'm anal AND full of it

LMAO....Shake, yer okay in my book...I don't care what ol Boats says.
:D

Cheers!
Tuner

[Shake]

Boats,

And I see that you have yet to address the issues I raised in my last pm from the prior thread. I figure if you're man enough to dish it you're man enough to take it too. Was I wrong? I'll wait for your response.

Shake. . . waiting. . .

[Sven]

I've never decocked under stress, but pushed it down hard enough to stop the pistol from working.

I've done this before on the H&Ks, as well. Major turn off. Figuratively and literally.

Posts like this (original thread starter) are major flame bait. Yawn.

[Shake]

Sven,

I'm curious as to how you push the decocking lever down hard enough to make the gun stop working?

If you push it down it may decock, but the gun doesn't stop working. It simply becomes a DA trigger pull.

Not flaming, just curious. . .

Shake

[Skunkabilly]

Shake,

I'm curious as to how you push the decocking lever down hard enough to make the gun stop working?

I had a AA USP40F and an AB USP45C...both, if I pushed the lever down so far, it wouldn't decock the gun, but the gun wouldn't go bang. I think the trigger moved a little, just not all the way back.

What variant USP do you have that decocks it but doesn't disable the gun? I've never shot the older ones, but maybe the new mainspring lock changed something inside? :confused:

It was a peeve of mine, but at least it was fixable...I ended up selling both the guns, replacing them with a 92G and P7M8, respectively. I still get a kick out of shooting 10-Ring's USPs though.

[Handy]

I know I already posted this, but if you are going to use the gun cocked and locked, why don't you guys just remove the decocking function? HK offers that module for that reason.

Really, there is always so much discussion on this board about practicing your manual of arms until you can trust yourself to do the right thing, everytime. Why have TWO manual of arms?

CZ does it right - Decock only, or safety only. They don't give you extra options to complain about.


Shake, I would think any correctly working pistol with a decocker should NOT fire with it depressed. If it did, it would also fire when the hammer dropped. But I have no particular knowledge of the USP mech.

[krept]

I agree...

I also really don't see the need for the variant one other than familiarizing yourself with the pistol, or if you feel the need to carry with the hammer up and locked. I think decocker-only ala SIG or safety-only ala 1911 makes for a more efficient manual of arms.

Of course, it makes a great learning tool to figure out which MOA you like better :D

This (http://dimworks.com/uspalt.jpg) is how I would change the USP.

Here (http://dimworks.com/usp.jpg) is the original.

Shorten distance to trigger, less of a monster trigger guard, the "hump" gone to get a higher grip, reposition of the manual safety lever, bobbed hammer, more aggressive grip angle...

the altered version

http://dimworks.com/uspalt.jpg

I wish it could be done.

[Shake]

Skunk,

I have a KI date code USP .40 Full size. . . no internal lock.

I was able to recreate what you mention (after some manipulation on my part). The only time it happens is if you short stroke the decocker, keep the decocker depressed partially (absolutely no movement up or down), and attempt to pull the trigger. Even then, it is a very small window of the stroke where it can happen. If you keep the trigger depressed and allow the decock to either snap back to the "Fire" position or finish the decock stroke, it will fire. I can't recreate it with any consistency.

Also, if this does happen during firing, seems like the gun isn't being gripped firmly enough?

If the trigger is pulled and the decock depressed simultaneously obviously the gun will fire.

I have a newer USP compact .45 that I haven't tried it on yet. I assume it would operate similarly.

This has never been a problem for me through thousands of rounds of shooting (including drawing, decocking as I bring up from low ready (my finger isn't on the trigger at that point). I shoot thumb high on my compact (riding the safety/decock with my thumb) which has more recoil than my full size, and have never encountered this problem. Obviously some have. Which is why I maintain that gun choices are best left up to each individual.

I just get a little bent (and this isn't directed at you Skunk) when people act as though they know what is best for OTHER people. I maintain and have always maintained that each person has his/her own requirements in a handgun. Choose the one that best fits your needs and live with it.

Shake

[Handy]

If the trigger is pulled and the decock depressed simultaneously obviously the gun will fire.

Again, how does this follow? If the decocker is depressed the hammer should be intercepted. What am I missing about USP decockers vs. other (Sig) frame decocker levers?

[Shake]

Handy,

That came out wrong.

What I meant was that if the trigger is pulled (and held) while the safety/decocker is stroked from "Safe" to "Fire" and through it's decock function, the gun will fire. This happens because the lever passes the "Fire" position prior to going through the decock function.

Ignore the "simultaneously".

Shake

[Handy]

Ah.

Why would one pull the trigger before releasing the safety? I ask because most guns won't even make it out of "safe" with pressure on the trigger.

But like I said, this seems like a non-issue. Don't buy an option you don't want.

[Shake]

Handy,

Good question.

I'd never thought of even trying the above as it is a non-issue for me. Never crossed my mind.

If it ever did become an issue, I'd follow your advice and remove the decock function as cocked and locked carry is an option.

Shake

[Sactown]

Ergonomics are in the hand of the holder. I do not find my USP40F to be particularly enjoyable for long shooting sessions. It has never failed and is pretty darn accurate but I still prefer the 1911 for ergonomics, build quality, and yes...reliability...my STI Trojan hasn't let me down yet.

[Mechanist]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the trigger is pulled and the decock depressed simultaneously obviously the gun will fire.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No it won't...

Happened to me as well, twice. Mine is a AE USP40F. The trigger just does not go all the way down. Almost as if the safety were on. I guess this is only a problem for shooters who tend to grip the gun very tightly.

In addition tho that and a slightly difficult trigger, I can't think of other bad things to say about my USP.

[Shake]

Mechanist,

Read subsequent posts above. . .

Shake

[Mikul]

The USP has a lot going for it.

It's extremely well made. You have to take one apart to appreciate it. The internal parts are as finely finished as the external parts. I thought that all guns were like that until a 1911 die-hard saw me dismantle my USP.

I love the controls. I have never accidentally decocked mine. I can drop the magazine with my thumb, but I do have long fingers. The safety can be on while I dismantle it. The decocking feature is an asset. I carry condition 1, but beside the bed it's decocked. My biggest complaint about the 1911 is that the slide lock requires a grip change to actuate.

Out of the box accuracy is amazing. I have full confidence that I can pick which eye of a gremlin I would like to shoot out at 25 yards.

They work, and work, and work. My USP did die (broken firing pin) around the 40K round mark, and H&K is fixing it. H&K stands by everything, even the two magazines I've broken. Of course, at $38 each, they should.

The USP trigger can be a PITA. It has a long reset and a terrible DA pull. The LEM trigger addresses the second issue and another H&K trigger design is on the way to address the first.

The high cost of the USP is due to two things: 1) they're a near-match quality gun. No one complains about $800 Kimbers because they're worth it. 2) The exchange rate. The change to the Euro doesn't seem to be changing that because German goods cost more in Euros that Deutschemarks.

[Berg01]

Loved the USP 9c I tried; wasn't crazy about the 40f I tried; I kinda prefer most of the SIGARMS guns, but the USP 9c at least is a fine piece.

[Trisha]

Hon, I'll have to see the passage of many decades more before I will presume to say one way or the other - but:

It was an enormous personal leap for me to buy my first polymer-framed handgun, a G21. That pistol has yet to ever fail, and has very good accuracy after a ridiculous number of rounds of ammunition. . .

After wanting something better designed to my ergonomics requirements (as well as with the AWB ban) I bought my USP Compact .45 Remarkable, slightly better accuracy than my Glock, a little easier to conceal, and as it's eating it's way through to the 30,ooo round mark it also has yet to fail.

BUT: I will always love a superb example of the 1911 design, and love owning one such, a Kimber Custom Eclipse II that shoots one ragged hold from a modified Weaver at 50 yards with match-grade handloads off of my single stage press.

There are literally dozens of handguns I would like to obtain and study, working them out to at least the 50,000 round mark, because then I could actually say what one sample from one line did vs another - but maybe, if I ever manage to finish the novel I'm writing (and it does wildly well, with demands for the rest of the story, or one of the other outlines I have waiting) and have some folding cash free I will pursue that dream!

Till then, my scope is painfully limited - but I'm a very happy mountain girl with the few wonderful examples of modern engineering and technology that are in the safe (and one is in a comfortable shoulder rig now)!

Trisha

[Skunkabilly]

The USP trigger can be a PITA. It has a long reset and a terrible DA pull. The LEM trigger addresses the second issue and another H&K trigger design is on the way to address the first.

What's the other HK trigger design?

[dwestfall]

had a AA USP40F and an AB USP45C...both, if I pushed the lever down so far, it wouldn't decock the gun, but the gun wouldn't go bang. I think the trigger moved a little, just not all the way back.

I could replicate this with a USP9, and actually had it happen during a class. Riding the safety of course, I didn't realize that during recoil the safety lever had moved down toward Decock. Not far enough to actually decock it, but due to my thumb pressure it couldn't fully return to Fire either. It seemed to me that it was still on Fire though.

The trigger would travel all the way back, but nothing would happen. I tried it a couple times, then TRB fixed it. Later I experimented with it and could duplicate the problem.

I subsequently sold the USP9 because it's accuracy in my hands paled to the USP45 I also had. The USP45 has a match trigger but I still prefer to keep it cocked and locked. I switched to v9 (safety only, no decock). The v9 cannot fail the way I have just described.

I really like my USP45. Yes the bore axis is high but the recoil is the softest of any .45 I've tried (and I've tried a bunch.)

The mag release works very well for me. I have never had any malfunctions with the USP45.

[Handy]

The USP has the same bore axis as a 1911. The recoil system is great.

[Caseless]

I like to think that my USP 40 combines the accuracy of a Sig classic with the reliability of a Glock 9mm. I only wish HK would wake up and make one in 357 SIG in full size or Expert trim.:cool:

[Tamara]

The USP has the same bore axis as a 1911.

In theory, yeah, but I can't choke up on it very well due to the shape of the upper part of the backstrap. (Where it has that annoying 'swell'. Like they say, though, ergonomics are highly subjective.)

[krept]

Exactly.

I recently spoke with Mark at Arizona Response Systems... they do the Glock grip reduction along with Robar.

I asked him if it were possible to remove some of the material from the frame of the USP, especially where the hump area is. He said he didn't think so. I think the USP is a great design but the inability to choke up is a detriment to me. I would like to use the high thumbs grip here as well, but cannot reach it as I can on a 1911. This is where, IMO, the 'ergonomics' are lacking for me. Plus the double stack .45 is just a little big for my hands when I take into account the need to manipulate the safety AND get a good amount of finger on the trigger. I just can't do it fast enough.

What I'm saying, I guess, is that there is still a perfect pistol out there, I have faith. This one is very close.

cheers

[Archer]

The USP can be shot very well, but the pistol is simply too large for many people (not me).

The main problem is that ordinary USP's have triggers that can't compare to even the cheapest third-world 1911 clone. Also the pistol is simply too thick for good concealment. (I can hide a 5" Government Model much more easily, comfortably, and completely, than a USP Compact .45)

I handled a USP Expert today, euro-model, and it had a very good trigger.

Identical to that of a Mark 23 of my acquaintance, and 90% of the one on my Springfield Professional.

If HK had put this trigger on the USP from the start there would be less debate about what is a very reliable utility pistol.

In 30K rounds shot through three separate USP Compacts I never experienced a problem with the decocker, but if i try i can make it do what was described.