[CZSteve]

Sorry, it's early am, can't sleep and just a bit frustrated-ticked.
Came home yesterday after work only to discover our house had been broken into.

During the middle of the day had some low-life scum kick-in the back door and ransacked the house.:fire:
Called the police and according to the officer there has been a rash of break-ins w/ the same MO.
They are apparently after guns for the most part.
Just by shear luck my CZ40B was at XS having new sights installed. They broke into the light duty lock box to no avail - and did not find any of the long guns surprisingly.

Biggest loss was my wifes wedding/engagement rings as she is unable to wear them right now because of swelling as a result of being pregnant along w/ some other jewlery and a couple cameras as far as we can tell right now. Very lucky overall I guess.

Hindsight:
Better (real) gun safe happening TODAY.
Dog is staying in main part of house while we're away; 90# Weimereiner has been in dog run w/ access to work shop so she can play.
Can you say alarm system that I have been putting off. :banghead:

Already spent last night w/ my brothers help replacing the back door and taking tomorrow off to follow-up w/ the police and insurance co.
They apparently have some high school suspects from previous incidents; keeping fingers crossed.

Sorry, just had to vent.:cuss:
Steve

[Stickjockey]

Steve-

Vent accepted. Hope they find the little b@$#@&?s!

[Snowdog]

Sorry to hear that!

As for the dog, I allow my German Shepherd to do his job by giving him free reign of the house while we're away. The only drawback to this is dog hair on the carpet (though a weekly vacuum takes care of it).
Doggie-door to the fenced-in back yard lets him take care of business himself, so he's an efficient security system if I ever saw one. He's also about 90 pounds and extremely territorial/aggressive with strangers.

I once received a solicitation call from a home security company offering me a free estimate to equip my house with their product. When they asked be if I currently had a home security system, I simply answered "Yes, a dog". End of story.



http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid39/pf2d5612ea65bbc17eb864f0c0a30b71f/fd0a013b.jpg

[matis]

Very sorry to hear that, CZSteve,

Been through that once in Hollywood, Ca. Very upsetting experience.

I 2nd the motion for a dog.

My 117# Alaskan Malamute keeps the scum away from here.

Also important to have signs. I use 4 x 5" vinyl stickers on windows front and rear, right next to the doors, that say: Warning Bad Dogs with a drawing of a German Shepherd with his teeth bared.

Don't forget stout outside doors with DOUBLE DEAD BOLT locks.

Again, sorry to hear this.




Matis

[cool45auto]

I worry about that every day. I live in an okay area but still worry. I don't have a gun safe or security system right now. I'm sorry to hear that CZ.

[Mastrogiacomo]

Sounds like you're very lucky considering. For all you know they might have pepper sprayed the poor dog. Some have....:fire:

We had people in our neighberhood that were breaking into houses. We knew exactly who they were -- right across the street from us -- but couldn't do anything about it. One neighbor lost jewelry that her mother had given her and she was hoping to give her daughters. They tried to break into another neigbor's home and actually stole the damn gas from our cars. Can you go any lower? We consider ourselves fortunate that's all they took. One time my car was broken into near the trains while I was working. It is a feeling of violation and sorry to her you and your wife are going through this. In my case, they just smashed the windows and took nothing (nothing much to take though I was poor even then) might have made me feel better if they had. They smashed the windows just because they could. This happened to my sister too -- the window repair guy sent us a lovely Christmas card though to thank us for the business....:rolleyes:

[Ol' Badger]

You know this stuff wouldn't happen if they just castrate all Burglers. No matter what the age, just snip snip. It'll make some of them think twice. Because lets face it, they'll be caught at some point and then they should get the Snip. IMO.

I had my trailer broken into before. Just kids stealling what ever they could. But one of the little darlings pooped on the coffee table. I just threw it out. Didn't want it anymore after that.

[CZSteve]

Agreed, we were fortunate overall (sounds strange? :rolleyes: )

Have 2 cats along w/ the dog that was in the wrong place/wrong time); none of the critters were harmed. :)

Only damage was to the rear door upon entering; no vandalism at all, just the mess from searching the house. Still amazed they didn't damage the house more our take any of the electronic stuff.
Didn't even spill my coffee cup in the bedroom as they were tearing it up to and fro.

[Kharn]

My parents subscribe to the 'Hardly anyone even knows about our development, we're in the way back and we lock our doors all the time so we dont need an alarm or anything' idea.
My girlfriend's family subscribes to the 'Let two 100+lb German Shepards have run of the house and dont bother to lock the doors' idea.
And my parents wonder why I feel more secure at the girlfriend's house than at home...

Kharn

[El Tejon]

Snow, wow, great photo!:cool:

CZ, at least you learned a hard lesson. A dog is too easy to kill or dope. Get a safe as well, one of those must haves, and your wife will probably forget the combination. This will allow you to add firearms without her knowing and you can "protect" the wedding photos.:p

"Oh, I'm sorry, dear, I know you want to look at the wedding photos for the millionth time this week, but I seem to have misplaced the combination.":D

[Billy Sparks]

When I my house got broken into here was the conversation between me and the 911 operator:

911 Operator: Is the person still in your house?

Me: No ma'am if he was I would be requesting a ambulance.

911 Operator: (trying to stifle giggle) Do you know who did this and where they are at?

Me: No ma'am if I know that I would be telling you where to send a ambulance to.

911 Operator: (Beginning to chortle) Okay sir I have a officer on his way.

Actually my wife and I got broken into 3 times, luckly the first time
the SO recovered 90% of the stuff within 48 hours. The second time all the person took was a handgun. The third time the alarm scared him off.

[Bowlcut]

Its the worst feeling in the world almost isnt it? Well those feelings that are brought on by property. Espcialy if you live by yourself. I got broken into and that night was one of the worst ever. I almost packed up and left right then as I didnt want to stay there unprotected. I now have some firearms so its a hair better. But laying in your bed afraid someone might come in is a bad feeling.

Dont forget dead bolts dont do a thing if you dont have some long screws in there. Put in some 3" + long screws in the striker plates and in the hinges.

[Sharpdogs]

Snowdog,

That's a great picture. I just sent it around to my co-workers who are fellow German Shepherd owners.

I'm not an expert but the best advice I can give is layers of security. Deadbolts, safe, dogs, etc. your even luckier if you have neigbors who keep an eye on things while your out.

Sorry for your loss. Hope they catch the b&stards.

[willyjixx]

bowlcut said it before i did! a deadbolt dont do crap unless its installed correctly. most just have it in the flashing. get a really long dead bolt that at extends an inch an a 1/2 as well as using the 3 inch screws.

i cant believe high school kids! what the hell is wrong with them!
i hope you get your wedding rings back, on stuff like that its not the value its the sentimental part that hurts! check your local pawn shops!

[CZSteve]

Thanks for the suggestions.

The dead bolt plate in the jam was installed w/ 4 3" screws penetrating into the frame; the door itself was kicked hard enough to buckle where the bolt slide completely out of the plate.

Good point about the pawn shops.
Have already left a message w/ the detective that specializes in tracking pawn items and will be providing pictures & diamond specs.
I will also be popping in on pawn shops whenever I can, hey another reason to look at guns. :rolleyes:

[Pebcac]

Sorry to hear about that. The wedding/engagement rings are the worst part, too. My wife would be heartbroken.

Look at it this way, although it's small consolation: These types usually get what's coming to them in the end. A local "cat burglar" here just got himself blasted by an armed homeowner - end of another criminal career.

[4v50 Gary]

Don't like "snip snip" for burglars. I think "bang, bang, you're dead" works better since it promotes rehabilitation through reincarnation.

[foghornl]

Don't like "snip snip" either. I prefer "snick snick"....the sound of 2 safeties being set to 'fire' mode

[makdaddy03]

Beware! Burglars usually come back for 2nds.:fire: Be ready for them.:evil:

[Cosmoline]

get a good guard dog. A GSD from European working lines is probably the ideal one for a home, since they tend to be friendlier to family members than other working dogs. With some training they will also ignore blows or even gunshots. Most dogs, even tough looking ones, will run off if smacked with a club.

[foghornl]

Beware! Burglars usually come back for 2nds. Be ready for them

In about 4 to 6 weeks, after you have dealt with your insurance and replaced everything.

Had a buddy several years back that got hit 4 times like that, averaged about 5 weeks apart. Got his homeowners cancelled after the 3rd hit. But he never seemed to remember not to put the boxes from the new stuff on the curb.:rolleyes:

Sheeeeeshhhh

[makdaddy03]

LOL!

[Cosmoline]

Addendum, in response to the post about dogs beaten to death. That would be all but impossible with a trained GSD from good lines. They are fast, and they don't back down. We have ours work in male/female teams like a pack. Nothing this side of a brown bear could get through them, and even the bear might think twice. They actually cooperate in the attack, with the female hitting (and it does feel like a powerful punch) the back of the legs or back of the shoulders while the male goes in for the arms. And those bites will crush bones, believe me. Part of their training keeps them from going in for the kill with a neck bite, but you could certainly train them to do it as part of ringsport.

[Lord Grey Boots]

Look into door reinforcers. They are brass plates that go around the locks on the door, and prevent the lock from being smashed out of the door as it appears it happened in your case.

I also put in armoured strike plates with long strong screws.

[bogie]

Get the LONGER deadbolt. I don't care how long the screws are - give me a minute with a bumper jack/hydraulic ram, and that door frame will be bent enough that the door will open.

[Ex-Doc]

I know someone who had everything taken including the reverse osmosis h20 dispenser.

Alarms are good, dogs are great, hidden cameras are excellent!

Nothing better than remembering you have a hidden camera system after you dogs dead, alarm disabled, and non-secured possessions looted!

Any web-sites that cover home security and layered protection?

[CZSteve]

Cosmoline,

The real kick in the pants is the fact that we have an excellent protective/guard dog.
A 90+ pound Weimereiner that have I absolutely no doubt that she would be as vigilant as possible if given the chance.

I (all my decision, incorrect as it was) had built a dog run attached to a small workshop on the back of the house.
Thinking what a great idea :banghead: . Bailey can have her own shelter and come and go outside as she pleases w/o fear of the cats (indoor only) getting out.
Bailey now gets to spend some quality time w/ the cats while we're at work.

Here's an attempt at posting a pic.
(great dog w/ kids BTW. Very much the same temperent of a Sherperd that's a little more energetic. :D

Allstate seems to getting on the ball pretty quick at least.

[Cosmoline]

I'm talking about. Men with clubs COULD kill the dogs, but not without losing large piece of flesh and having bones broken.

You would have to be able to do a one-swing kill as fast as a major league batter. Pain does not stop these dogs when they're on the attack. They are not like your typical American breed or even your typical American shepherd.

99% of the dogs out there will cringe if you smack them with a stick. You then followup with more smacks and *presto* dead dog. Real easy. The dogs I'm talking about do not bluff and they do not back down. When the blood of one of the big males is up, it's a sight to behold. Even my neighbor's Rottweiler (a larger dog by 20 lbs) runs in abject terror. A smack to the head, unless it's strong enough to collapse the skull (not easy), will only piss him off more.

Even the females are impressive. One little girl, about 60 lbs., nailed me with a *warning* bite when she didn't know me too well. She quietly got behind me, hopped up to the level of my shoulder and bit it firmly, then released. This was not a serious bite, but if it had been my whole arm would have been out of the game. I never saw it coming, and by the time I reacted she was back around five feet in front of me.

There are dogs, and then there are the dogs I've got. Get the dog's I've got.

[WonderNine]

Sorry to hear about that CZSteve. :(

Snowdog, I'd rather face an angry rottweiler or pitbull any day of the week than an angry German Shepard. :uhoh:

My cousin had a nasty big one on the farm years ago that used to kill coyotes and badgers for fun. Everyone was afraid of it.

I got attacked by a pretty big rottweiler one time walking home, those things are all bark and no bite! He came charging at me snarling and I yelled at him and kicked him square in the noggin as hard as I could and he went flying then wimpered and ran away like a little b--ch! :D

[willyjixx]

cosmoline:

those sound like some vicious dogs. how muc training, how much to pay for the breed, an lastly how do they do with kids an other pets?

[Cosmoline]

That's just it--they AREN'T vicious. A vicious dog will do things like sucker bite your calf muslce, or bite a kid on the face. These are working GSD's from European lines, and for 100 years any dogs showing signs of fear biting or other vicious behavior have been removed from the bloodlines.

Most of our dogs are trained under Shutzhund (protection dog) programs. All have certain basic training in protection work. From there they can be trained to do anything from police work to SAR. Schutzhund trains the dogs to take a single full bite of the arm, rather than the neck. It's supposed to be non-lethal, though of course the bones of the arm will be broken. They can be trained to kill, though usually only law enforcement and the military does this. I wouldn't want to do it for liability reasons. If someone has to be killed, I want to be the one to do it.

They are all lovebugs when around the family, and I'd trust any one of them better than your average American lab around kids. It's certainly possible to screw up these dogs if you train them poorly, but if trained right they are the ideal dogs. The key to training, BTW, is establishing love and trust. Simply beating them does not work, since they are bred to grow more angry if beaten.

Some breeds, like Malinois, are faster and better at delivering a single kill bite to the neck, but they aren't as friendly around the family.

The price for a good European-line working GSD runs from about $800 to $1,500 for a pup to a lot more for a fully trained adult like the police buy. This is the kennel my friend runs:

http://www.alaskagermanshepherds.com/

[CZ-100]

Sorry to here about your loss. Make sure they stole enough to cover your deductible and to replace everything.:D

Defiantly get a SAFE. I finally stop putting it off and got one last month. and if it is not HEAVY make sure you bolt it down.

[CZSteve]

Hey CZer

10-4 on covering the deductible.
Not looking to prosper, but not looking to lose either.

Have already ordered real safe; albit a small shelf model that WILL BE THOUROUGHLY afixed.

Already checking into alarms; been meaning to do this.:rolleyes:

Cosmoline,

I think you're dead on regarding the dog training and couldn't agree more that a naturally kind dog that is well trained is preforable to some breeds that are naturally aggressive.
Particulary when kids are around.

[jacketch]

I know from experience that a hickory ax handle will put a large dog down if used properly. A number of years ago I was working on a new house out in the country. The neighbor on the next farm had a large dog, about 130 pounds. I was working by myself one day when he came snooping around. He had been there before but this time he seemed to be up to something. I grabbed an ax handle and walked around to the other side of the house to see what he was up to and when I came around the corner he came at me. I swung the handle downward like when splitting wood just as he came at me catching him on the crown of the head. He dropped like a bag of hammers. I left him laying there and went back to work since he seemed to still be breathing and only had a cut with a large knot on his head. Later I saw him wandering in circles in the field near the house. He never did come around again.

[Brat7748]

My house had an alarm and they still got in. Lessons learned:

1) No little signs telling the world you have an alarm (they will first cut the phone line)

2) Have outside siren but keep it out of reach and out of sight if possible. After they cut phone line they smashed siren box. New one has a tamper switch in it, that will set off alarm if smashed.

3) Cell phone back up for phone line (well hidden).

I figure if they try again they will cut the phone line again, smash the siren, which will trip the alram and the monitoring service will call the cops. Cops should arrive just after the BG's have broken in. Big Surprise !!

[Cosmoline]

of my best buddy on the attack while a helper tries to smack him with a training club.

Obviously, we don't use axe handles to train. But that helper is swinging as fast as he can downwards, and as you can see Cohen is already airborn and about to nail his arm (protected, of course).

Of course, some yahoo goblin on meth would still probably be able to beat him to death while he's hanging on the arm in a death-grip. But in the mean time either me or my roommate will have blown said goblin's head clean off with a rifle. That's the key to good dogs. They are the first line of defense. They cannot replace a firearm, but they can give you a chance to get it up and ready. They can also extract a heavy, heavy toll for trying to steal your stuff.

[DontShootMe]

Cops should arrive just after the BG's have broken in.

Maybe in a perfect world...well actually in a perfect world..oh nevermind

[jimbo]

And then they turnaround and tell us we have NO right to protect our property, for most of these United States. I am furious and it wasn't even my home that got broken in to. If it were legal to wire a 30,000 Volt circuit into the alarm system, I doubt these home burglaries would go on too long.:cuss:

[Snowdog]

Concerning German Shepherds...

I bought mine after hearing a story from a friend of mine who retired from the Flagstaff Arizona police department, a real stand up guy.

I once told him I was in the market for a good family dog that had the ability to defend the home while the family's away. He told me of a story of a fellow who lived near Flagstaff that bought a German Shepherd of respectable bloodlines for just this reason.
For seven or so years, no one broke into his home, yet some other homes on the outskirts of Flagstaff were getting broken into.
On that seventh year (I'd imagine the GSD was probably over its peak by then), two worthless scumbags did break into his home.

When the owner came home from work, he found blood on the driveway and padio of his home. When he entered the house, there was blood everywhere... on the carpet, walls drapes. Not a thing was taken from the home, yet the side door was kicked in.

He found his loyal GSD dead in the living room, laying in a "watchful" head-over-paws position facing the kitchen door. He apparently had be stabbed and slashed multiple times.
When the police arrived, they made it clear that only a small fraction of blood in that house was from the dog, and attempted to piece together what may have happened.
The thugs broke in (two, most likely) and were immediately attacked by the dog. They made their way into the living room while stabbing/slashing the dog, but sustained serious bite wounds (and bleeding out) in the act.
The scums, badly injured, gave up left... and the GSD took up a "guarding" position and bled to death.
The reason two were suspected was due to two "likely suspects" in a nearby hospital, one with serious tendon damage to his arm requiring surgery and multiple bite wounds to the face, the other with a horrendous bite to the neck, who lost a tremendous amount of blood and was in critical condition when he arrived.
They were never charged, and said they were attacked by a pack of wolves while hiking "somewhere".
:fire:


After hearing this, I decided on the German Shepherd Dog, and have been thoroughly pleased with my decision ever since.
The make excellent additions to the family, are scary-smart and extremely loyal. I know mine would die defending the house if someone broke in, but ironically, I really hope he would back down after the initial attack as I would hate to lose him.

They are an excellent breed!

[JohnKSa]

Beware! Burglars usually come back for 2nds. Be ready for them.
Second that. You need to be operating under the assumption that there WILL be another break-in.

Some other ideas.

Clean out the garage so you can park inside. That makes it a little harder to determine whether or not someone's home.

Get an answering machine and caller ID and use it to screen ALL calls so people can't call you to determine if the house is empty. That means that the machine ALWAYS answers and you pick up only if it's someone you want to talk to. The message should make it clear you're home but don't answer the phone.

Leave a radio on when you leave the house. Tuned to talk radio. Loud enough to be heard from outside the house, but not loud enough to understand well enough to figure out what it is.

Leave lights on so that the house looks the same as if you were home. Lights are really cheap. I figured it out one time--definitely not worth worrying about the electricity costs.

Look into some of the other lock options. There are some really nifty solutions that are cheap and easy to install but are virtually impossible to kick in. I believe someone is making a lock that throws bolts on the top/bottom/side of the door. Those are a bugger to force open.

Set up a motion sensor like the kind people use to turn on driveway lights on your entryway/doors and hook them up so that they turn on a radio or TV and lights inside the house when they go off.

Security systems are good. If you work close to home, you can have the system page you instead of calling the monitoring company. A guy in Mesquite, TX ended the careers of a couple of repeat burglars using that technique awhile back. He surprised them with his deer rifle as they were leaving. He killed one and paralyzed the other from the neck down. TX law is pretty lenient on such things. Even though they were leaving the scene, he wasn't indicted. Your luck may not be so good, I'm not advocating you follow his example in that respect, only in terms of his creativity with the alarm.

I knew a guy who caught a burglar by pretending to leave his house and then sneaking in the back way. He waited awhile and caught the neighbor's teenage kid coming in the window. The sheriff told him he should have shot him... (TX again).

[Carlos]

Very sorry to hear about your losses.

Nice dog. Get that alarm and I assure you that I'm going to replace all the hingescrews with at least 3 in. and get one more 2 key deadbolt. I do have an alarm, and I need a better safe.

I live in a tight community where we watch out for each other.

Good luck.

[makdaddy03]

JohnKSa, We must have read the same book or article. I agree with you 100%.;)

[mussi]

I've been broken into 6 years ago. That is, the burglars got away.

However, except some remnants of their faces (stitched together at the next hospital, but it seems they spent a subliminal amount of money on their facial structure, and some severe patching of their arms and legs), legs and arms. I'm still amazed they got out on their own through the window. The dogs didn't follow them outside, though. Maybe the dogs weren't hungry after taking a chunk out of every burglar. :)

Nothing of my stuff was taken, and after the police did their investigation, one cop even gave me the number of a professional cleaning institute, although back then I didn't have the money to call them so I put on professional gloves and scrubbed the hallway and the living room myself with disinfectants and strong cleaning agent.

Of course, I was also charged, but a good criminal defense lawyer and a judge with a clue ("Look, who decided to go burglarizing the defendants apartment?"), I was aquitted.

Two German shepherds did the trick, and supposedly, they were on holiday while their owner was doing military service. That evening, the dogs got a very tasty Saucisson Vaudois as reward for keeping the burglars from taking any of my stuff. These beasts are mean. Now I have a Great Dane and maybe my next dog(s) will be a German Shepherd of a reputable line again. My neighbor breeds Dobermans and they also like burglars. But so far, raw only, preferably with the bones. :)

[Cosmoline]

but it makes very nice rifles, and produces the very best dogs. Nearly every breed here has been all but destroyed by the idiots at the AKC, including the American so-called "German Shepherd."

Sorry to hear you got charged, though.

[CZ-100]

CZSteve.. Check out Wal-Mart for some Reasonable priced safes.

[fish2xs]

Snowdog - that's one bad-add lookin mutt! It reminds me of an Omen movie....


My retriever has a vicious growl and bark, but that's it. Once someone gets in the house he's all tail wags and tongue.


...the more people I meet, the more I love my dog!

[SoDFW Jason]

Steve - Let me know if you find them, I'll come over and help you scare the beJesus out of them :D



For those of you who would flame me for suggesting retaliation, I'm kidding.;)

[TheOtherOne]

Even though Dog's can be vulnerable... I still subscribe to them as the best defense when nobody is home.

Get one of these and there is a good chance the bad guy(s) won't make it out of the house alive:

http://members.aol.com/gmarshallj/PresaCanario.jpg

But I wouldn't suggest a Presa for anyone with kids (or even a pregnant wife).

[treeprof]

We got hit a few yrs ago (wife came home on a hot burlary, with a bit of perversion mixed in for good measure). Total loss was $60 cash they escaped with, along with piece of mind. But then:

Alarm system, $1200 + monthly monitoring
A "real" safe, $1000
Replace/upgrade door/window lockwork, $400

Also many hrs on phone to SS Admin, credit bureaus, banks, etc. as we lost SS cards and other id as well. Also spent abt $1000 for CCW permit, 2 carry guns and training for the wife, but I was happy to do it.

Get cellular service for your alarm - no wires to be cut.