Ammo Prices


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model4006
April 24, 2007, 12:08 AM
Does our current prolonged military conflict have anything to do with ammo prices? This would mostly pertain to 7.62x39 (them), and .223/5.56 (us), but also 7.62 NATO and 9mm as well. If all of those have to increase in price, why not everything right?

What do you guys think?

If you think the war is either completely or partially at fault, when the war is over do we expect ammo prices to fall?

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thexrayboy
April 24, 2007, 12:17 AM
This is an ongoing topic on many gun/shooting forums. To say that action in the sandbox has no effect on availability of ammo would be ludicrous. The military is burning through tens of millions of rounds of 5.56 a year. This increases demand on available supply. Ammo makers compete with other industries for raw material such as nitrates for powder, lead and other metals for brass and rounds and for the energy to operate factories. These factors along with the general competition around the world for raw material have driven up prices and impacted supply. There are multiple factors at play here and all are governed by the laws of supply and demand. While
stocks may improve in the future easing the shortages I doubt we will ever see ammo prices at the levels we were used to in the past.

model4006
April 24, 2007, 12:19 AM
hey crownroyal why didnt you just ask? (im not trying to be a smartass)

glockman19
April 24, 2007, 12:21 AM
I think that ammo prices have risen due to the increase in cost of metals NOT the war in Iraq.

Everything is getting more expensive. Gas is going up because OPEC would rather have Euro's than dollars with the dollar being $.73. Think that's scary the dollar is only worth $.50 British pounds.

Beef is becomming more expensive because corn feed has increased in price due to ethenol.

And it's unfortunately only the beginning.

thexrayboy
April 24, 2007, 01:13 AM
Crownroyal. Interesting theory and I would not at all put it past the Taliban to threaten such a thing. They are a violence addicted cult and crazy enough to threaten vendors at markets with violence for merely displaying tomatoes next to cucumbers. Something about the vegetables being different genders. However do you have any concrete evidence to support this theory? Just curious.

ConfuseUs
April 24, 2007, 01:30 AM
I see the increase in ammo prices coming from the following:

1) Iraq war (shortage of NATO spec ammo anyone?)
2) Copper, brass, and lead prices
3) Recent events, such as Venezuela adopting the AK-103 rifle and buying several million rds of ammo for them. (Venezuela should now be producing it's own 7.62x39 ammo now). Don't forget Uncle Sam buying 7.62x39 with our tax dollars for the Iraqi Army. That caused the recent 7.62x39 drought.
4) The drop in the dollar's value in the foreign exchange market.

We're getting smacked by both shortage AND the decline in value of our currency. Ouch.

grimjaw
April 24, 2007, 01:34 AM
I'd say somewhat, but only a little.

jm

ArchAngelCD
April 24, 2007, 01:44 AM
I didn't read the comments so I hope I'm not repeating.

The war in Iraq has only caused Wolf 7.62X39mm ammo to be hard to get because of a contract with the USA to supply the Government of Iraq with ammo for their AK's.

Ammo prices have gone up because of CHINA. China is buying up all the Brass and Lead from the USA and others therefor creating a shortage. They are then manufacturing ammo and selling it to us at the inflated price. You can thank Clinton for pushing to get China Most Favored Nation Status. (But that had nothing to do with their $600,000 donation to his Library a year later, did it??)

The Chinese learned about Capitalism and supply and demand very fast for a Communist Nation.

jeff-10
April 24, 2007, 01:48 AM
The devaluation of the $ has a lot to do with it along with the wars in Iraq and Afganistan.

blitzen
April 24, 2007, 01:50 AM
the cost or scrap metals of all sorts has gone through the roof in the past year or so. For some reason I think that has a lot to do with the cost.

Hoppy590
April 24, 2007, 01:52 AM
some of it has to do with the war on terror. some of it has to do with the UN bull poop

thexrayboy
April 24, 2007, 02:29 AM
China is buying up all the Brass and Lead from the USA and others therefor creating a shortage. They are then manufacturing ammo and selling it to us at the inflated price. You can thank Clinton for pushing to get China Most Favored Nation Status.

I won't say you are wrong but I don't recall seeing much in the way of Chinese made ammo available in the US. Aside from the usual milsurp sources such as UAE, Guatamala etc and the Russion WOLF/Bear brands the only manufacturers of imported ammo that is readily available commercially is privi partizan and fiocchi. Can any one here name any Chicom brands available?

Glockfan.45
April 24, 2007, 07:20 AM
Anyone curious to know why SKS and Ak's are going to be hard to get as well? Just pop that quesiton and i'll be sure to get that one off my chest as well.


To give a simple response to my question in my previous post:


Only a couple sks makers in world.
The taliban says sell me them rifles or ill blow your plant up.
Whos NOT going to believe them.
Are sks's are going to the taliban.


:scrutiny:

The reasons:

Metal prices have gone up greatly over the last few quarters.

The U.S dollar is heading down the tubes (hence why my funds have been moved into European markets) and now you are starting to see the tip of the inflation iceberg.

Iraq/Afghanistan have nothing to do with ammo increases. This would only cause price hikes if it created a shortage. I have no trouble finding 5.56, 7.62x39, or 9mm for sale.

Durruti
April 24, 2007, 07:33 AM
Yeah, metal prices have quite a bit to do with it, and much of that is due to the rapid industrialization in China, India and other countries. And yes, the weakening dollar will have that effect, too, since even domestic ammo is produced with imported materials.

As for Iraq and Afghanistan, I think that there is an effect. However, it's not simply higher demand, it's also the uncertainty in the market. If ammo manufacturers knew the wars would definitely last another 5 or 6 years, they could increase production, which would drive prices back down to about where they used to be. However, both wars could potentially end within the next year (it could happen!) and nothing hurts a weapons manufacturer prepared for war more than peace (please, no conspiracy theories :neener: ). So, they hedge their bets and produce more, but not a whole lot more.

FMJMIKE
April 24, 2007, 08:02 PM
Whatever the reason........... I am gonna start shooting my rimfires until prices drop............:mad:

Lone_Gunman
April 24, 2007, 10:31 PM
China is buying up all the Brass and Lead from the USA and others therefor creating a shortage. They are then manufacturing ammo and selling it to us at the inflated price.


No, that is not right. China is not selling us any ammo at all. An import ban was placed on chinese manufactured ammo a while back. Before that, there was a lot of Norinco ammo available.

SoCalShooter
April 24, 2007, 10:33 PM
I am sure there is a small impact. War impacts every facet of our daily lives.

GTSteve03
April 24, 2007, 10:39 PM
The Grand War On Terror is having some effect, namely that all the domestic producers of .223 and .308 (the civilian versions of the military 5.56 and 7.62 rounds) are busy producing ammo for the Gov and not for us civvies.

Also, the ever-tightening grasp of the UN Arms Control on other NATO countries is causing all of the surplus 5.56 and 7.62 to be demilled (read, destroyed) rather than being sold to the USA. This is cutting off a lot of our cheap surplus ammo.

Luckily at least for now Russian 7.62x39 is flowing back in country, at least the Ruskies seem to understand Capitalism well enough to want to take our dollars in exchange for ammo. How long that pipeline of ammo stays open depends on how many new laws are put into effect to keep ammo out of the hands of the civilian population. We already lost the Chinese pipeline on cheap ammo, I don't expect the Russian one to stay open forever.

DMK
April 24, 2007, 10:46 PM
double post.

DMK
April 24, 2007, 10:49 PM
I say the WOT had an indirect effect. It gave the ammunition resellers a somewhat believable and disconcerting story to explain their supply problems and subsequent price increases.

Buyers bought into the story(combined with post-Katrina and pre-election fears) and panic buying ensued. Supply < relative increases in demand = increase in price. Increase in price fuels more panic buying to stock up before price increases more. Self perpetuating cycle.

The demand will subside as most buyers will gain enough stock or lose interest. However, prices won't return to what it was.

I slept through most of my three semesters of economics, but that part sunk in.

wacki
April 24, 2007, 11:17 PM
If you think the war is either completely or partially at fault, when the war is over do we expect ammo prices to fall?

China and ever increasing energy prices are going to make ammo prices suxors. Many people here don't believe in global warming but you should support the development alternative energy technology. It takes a lot of energy to refine/ship ammo. The cheaper energy is the better.

ArchAngelCD
April 24, 2007, 11:43 PM
Can any one here name any Chicom brands available?
No, that is not right. China is not selling us any ammo at all. An import ban was placed on chinese manufactured ammo a while back. Before that, there was a lot of Norinco ammo available.
I don't remember where I read it but the article said China is making the stuff for well known manufacture and it's being sold under the known manufacturer’s name.

At the time I read it sounded credible but I can't remember where I read it so I have no way of proving anything. Sorry...

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