Chalk outlines


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Oleg Volk
April 24, 2007, 02:36 AM
http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/19075-2/chalk9890.jpg

Hi-res (http://olegvolk.net/gallery/technology/arms/chalk9890.jpg.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1)

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skinnyguy
April 24, 2007, 02:51 AM
Excellent!!!!

Pax Jordana
April 24, 2007, 07:40 AM
aaaaaahahahahahaha :evil: oleg for the win

El Tejon
April 24, 2007, 07:46 AM
Dust cover!!!:D Sorry, couldn't help myself.

Don't ya think the AR is a little "over the top"? Maybe a revolver instead?

Durruti
April 24, 2007, 08:30 AM
I like it, but it seems like the second part could be misinterpreted as promoting a dog-eat-dog mentality. Maybe something like "it's up to you to make sure the outline is around your attacker."

Excellent picture!

xsquidgator
April 24, 2007, 08:47 AM
Very nice.

Could I suggest the exact same words but overlaid on more of a concealed carry picture? The evil black rifle I think will subliminally turn off people who might be on the fence about self-defense. Maybe a person holding a snubbie revolver perhaps?

Oleg Volk
April 24, 2007, 09:04 AM
Dust cover is open -- she just fired.

Black rifle is deliberate -- show them as useful to Jane Average.

kludge
April 24, 2007, 09:27 AM
Excellent!

I agree, more posters with the same message, and vary the photos.

AR over the top? Not to me. When cops KNOW there's going to be trouble they grab the AR or the shotty.

Colt
April 24, 2007, 09:27 AM
If the goal is to convert a fence-sitter, the black rifle might be a bit much. That's a big step - no gun to "Rambo's gun."

IMO, it's the exact mental self image projected by your poster that causes most would-be shooters to hesitate. She's not going to want others to see her as that woman, either.

Why not a descreet little LadySmith instead?

Just my $.02.

Seancass
April 24, 2007, 09:42 AM
i can see the idea of showing the black rifle as non-evil, but agree thats a big step for some people. i also think that a small revolver or maybe shotgun would work well for this text.

Oleg Volk
April 24, 2007, 09:51 AM
I'll make a revolver version. I'll make the "PG" version of this as well, with a Nerf gun.

Neo-Luddite
April 24, 2007, 09:52 AM
That lady looks to need a Ladysmith...and a cup of coffee:p .

Biker
April 24, 2007, 09:55 AM
Nerf gun? I missed something. I too think a handgun would fit the message a bit better.

Biker

TallPine
April 24, 2007, 11:16 AM
Why not compromise...? Put a 12 guage in her hands ;)

GEM
April 24, 2007, 11:32 AM
I don't like the idea of a girl's gun but I see the point about the AR - being quite expert in the aggression priming literature.

Go for a standard semiauto.

But as always - nice job.

ArfinGreebly
April 24, 2007, 11:35 AM
Uh . . .

She's wearing a bathrobe . . .

And that "you woke me up for this?" look on her face.

Rifle would be appropritate. Or a shotgun.

Large (nightstand) handgun would also work.

I like it.

Eleven Mike
April 24, 2007, 11:43 AM
No complaints this time. Good shoot! :)

Sistema1927
April 24, 2007, 11:57 AM
The dust cover is open because she is now calling for the clean up crew.

Maybe to make it less verbose it needs to say:

Cops arrive in time to draw the chalk outline.


Make sure it isn't around your body.

Sylvan-Forge
April 24, 2007, 12:05 PM
I dig it.

sm
April 24, 2007, 12:10 PM
She stopped Mr. Goodbar....

*grin*

Mr White
April 24, 2007, 12:11 PM
Might be a little too graphic but a cool poster might be 2 pics, one with a body on the floor w/ a chalk outline around it and a cell phone laying near an open hand. other pic of a woman with a pistol in one hand and a cell phonne in the other. Caption of "Which one would you rather be?"

sam1952
April 24, 2007, 12:25 PM
Oleg,

I really appreaciate you putting these pictures up and letting us critique them.

This is a great picture. I love the bathrobe and the actor.

When I first looked at it my fisrt thought was the AR was a little over kill. Though I did get the AR being used to soften the evil black gun.

To tell the truth I'd like to see the poster with a shotgun and a revolver too !!!

Great work.........

Barbara
April 24, 2007, 12:29 PM
Actually, that's my rifle. I don't keep it tucked under my arm, but its the only way it would fit in the picture.

the naked prophet
April 24, 2007, 12:37 PM
I think the AR should stay. In order for it to be "de-evilified" it needs to be seen in the hands of, as Oleg says, "Jane Average," in her many visages. And it needs to be seen there often.

Fosbery
April 24, 2007, 01:00 PM
Great poster.

I'd prefer just "Make sure it isn't around YOUR body" (with emphasis on 'your').

Colt
April 24, 2007, 01:01 PM
You do good work, Oleg.

30 cal slob
April 24, 2007, 01:17 PM
Oleg, I admire your intent but I think that picture is wrong on so many levels.

I would have preferred to see an MP5SD in her hands instead.

:neener:

Correia
April 24, 2007, 01:18 PM
Dustcover? Jeez, El Tejon, I know you've gone to lots of Gun Skool, but if you cleaned your house once in awhile, you wouldn't need to use the dustcover inside your bedroom. :)

bogie
April 24, 2007, 01:19 PM
Guys, tacticool is okay, but to the vast majority of folks who may see these on bulletin boards, whatever, they either look like mattel or like scary.

SIMPLIFY.

cpaspr
April 24, 2007, 01:28 PM
Okay. I'm probably gonna catch "idiot" flak for this, but I don't think I'm the only one with this particular problem: I don't get the "dust cover" comments. I'm not familiar, at all, with EBR style rifles. What's allegedly wrong, or right, about the picture?

BOONER
April 24, 2007, 02:10 PM
per most trainers myself included after your pre/post firing/loading sequence you should close your dust cover on your ejection port.... to prevent dust, dirt,ickeys, nasty's from getting in your bolt chamber area.

JimmyN
April 24, 2007, 02:20 PM
I think that is excellent, the rifle in the image does support their use for home defense. The more that type of image is seen the less unusual it will be.

It gave me an idea for another.

Two images, the first of the victim lying on the floor, cell phone next to her hand. The second image similar to the one shown, rifle in hand along with a cellphone.

The caption would be "Which position will you be in when the police arrive?" Or something similar

WinchesterAA
April 24, 2007, 02:37 PM
I like these posters. Especially how it's a female holding an AR.

Never see em with an AK in hand, just adds more fuel to the fire for the AR vs AK debate =)

http://a54.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/45/l_7ed3eb62deb559634bc522ace137f77d.jpg
well.. maybe sometimes.

Odd Job
April 24, 2007, 02:45 PM
I would also prefer it, if it was a shotgun.

ctdonath
April 24, 2007, 02:51 PM
There does seem something excessively massive & misplaced about the AR.
Actually it may be the cammoed Aimpoint (?) sight: coloring invokes purely military use, stands out by contrasting with all-black AR, and while very little of the AR is actually visible the big bulky Aimpoint gives the impression it's attached to a big bulky mostly-non-visible gun.
Perhaps replace it with a standard AR handle, with consistent color and lightweight feel.

Then again, maybe the hefty no-nonsense "don't **** with me" gun+sight better supports the "you woke me up for this?" look. It also might tell people it's OK to have a serious gun for defense, not just a relatively wimpy "fight your way back to the rifle you never should have left behind" handgun.

I have been increasingly using the comment "police only arrive in time to clean up the mess." The "chalk outlines" comment will join my rhetoric.

Eleven Mike
April 24, 2007, 03:23 PM
cpaspr,

In the picture, if you look below the scope, you can see an oblong hole in the side of the rifle. As you may know, that is the ejection port for spent brass. Below it, there is a hinged flap in the down position, which is meant to cover the ejection port until the bolt moves (as you may also know, the bolt moves after firing, when it extracts the spent round). The bolt opens the cover the first time it moves.

Of course, we might expect it to be open, even if she has not fired. If she stores the gun with an empty chamber, she would have cycled the bolt, engaged the safety, and wisely chose not to worry about the dust cover.

BOONER
April 24, 2007, 03:31 PM
LET ME HELP THOSE OF YOU ARE HUNG UP ON THE AR, SHE HAS IN THE PICTURE.


30-something, small statured, minivan driving professional woman with a degree and two kids and that IS her home defense gun.


why? cause it has several atvantages over a shotgun and handgun.

first off rule 1 have a gun period.
she does.

so what she got a great deal on a used aimpoint in a larue mount. So what its tan and green matches her carpet and walls in the home nicely
advantages of the AR over the shotgun

1 less recoil
2 faster follow up shots
3 28 rounds.
4 able to use and control and fire with one hand
5 ability to defeat heavy layers of clothing and armor(yes it has happed)
6 accurate shot placement in hostage situation( yes it has happened in home invasions)
7 less risk of over penetration and risk to bystanders or those in other rooms and homes in the event she misses
8. aimpoint fast... on target..... and accurate.see number 7 above.
9 ability to have ample amount of ammo on board and at the ready.

10 .BECAUSE ITS HER RIGHT TO CHOOSE WHATEVER SHE WANTS TO DEFEND HERSELF AND HER FAMILY AND SHE IS GOOD WITH IT.......


And over a handgun
more ammo
easy to use
less penetration again
better stopping power
shall i go on.......................

I'm wondering who is opposed to her defending herself, the Bradys or some of those here.........so what who cares what she uses. it works for her stick with what works for you..... but i bet she has more training than some of those here complaining her choice in hardware.

Sistema1927
April 24, 2007, 03:41 PM
I am another one who is wondering why so many are having trouble with the AR.

At night, I unlock the gun safe in my bedroom, and the weapon closest at hand is a 16" AR with a flashlight, adjustable butt stock, night sites, and vertical foregrip. In case of home invasion, the AR would be in my hands, or given enough time, handed off to the little lady while I grabbed the 12 ga. that is right next to the AR.

The AR is a much better weapon for her than either the shotgun or any handgun that we own for this situation. If I was alone I would choose the AR, but would feel comfortable with her watching my six with it while I chuck a round of OO Buck into the shotgun.

Eleven Mike
April 24, 2007, 03:41 PM
Booner, we're talking about the poster, and how it will communicate with people who might be on the fence about guns. We're NOT talking about what Barbara should actually use to defend herself.

There are a lot of other threads that debate what gun is best for HD, but I don't think this is one of them. The point is that most non-gun people who see the poster will have an easier time accepting a home-owner armed with something that doesn't look like a SWAT weapon. We'd like them to get used to the Evil Black Rifle eventually, but the argument is about whether we should bring them on board all at once, or go a little slower.

Again, I don't much care what Barbara uses to ventilate creeps, this is about the poster and what people will think of it.

BOONER
April 24, 2007, 03:45 PM
We have been going to slow for years............. so if she had glock 19 in her hands then she could be compared to having the evil handgun that killed all those poor kids at VT.......

Special_K
April 24, 2007, 03:48 PM
The only problem I have with the picture is that she is wearing rings.

I know no lady that wears rings to bed and that would put them on to defend themselves!!

Good job Oleg!

Barbara
April 24, 2007, 03:51 PM
If that gun, in my hands, defending my own house isn't acceptable, it never will be and we should give it up now.

True about the rings.

Barbara
April 24, 2007, 03:52 PM
Ok, for those of you griping: What presentation of an AR would be acceptable to those you would like to convert?

BOONER
April 24, 2007, 03:55 PM
a pink one with frilly things on it and in the background you in the kitchen baking cookies and doing dishes. while barefoot.

Oleg Volk
April 24, 2007, 04:10 PM
People tend to think in terms of symbols. We see a specific SBR in 9x19, hushed or an AR15, caliber .223. They see "dark symbol of such and such, generic". It is useful to get peer reactions to fine-tune the next version. I won't change this poster but will make more to fine-tune to the audience. Messages work best when they fit all existing prejudices but one - the one we change.

BOONER
April 24, 2007, 04:13 PM
Your so smart....

Oleg Volk
April 24, 2007, 04:16 PM
I just can't afford to fall in love with my own images and captions to the exclusion of good advice. You now have a job -- practice your war face and perp mannerisms. Or maybe we'll cast you as the defender and Barb as a PMSing goblin on a rampage. :)

BOONER
April 24, 2007, 04:24 PM
that would be to natural for her.......:uhoh:

Barbara
April 24, 2007, 04:25 PM
Well, that'd be a stretch!!!

:neener:

I think the goblin face would have been easier if any of us could have kept a straight face. I was just relieved not to see the gun grabber photo. :)

R33P3R
April 24, 2007, 04:25 PM
that lady needs some beauty sleep

sm
April 24, 2007, 04:29 PM
<raises hand>

Who has the Chalk left over from these Photo Shoots?

My guess is the guys (one in particular , about 6'5" ) are in trouble.
Not only does Barbara have the AR, she has the Chalk. :p

The female of the species is the deadlier of the two. - Kipling

Outlaw Man
April 24, 2007, 04:30 PM
I love it, Oleg.

Eleven Mike
April 24, 2007, 04:36 PM
What presentation of an AR would be acceptable to those you would like to convert?

I like the poster, but I can understand why a more "civilian-looking" gun might be better. Oleg really nailed it with his comment about tackling one prejudice at a time. If there's anything we should learn from the propaganda success of socialists and other left-wing movements of the last century, it is to change people's opinions gradually.

Depends on what we're converting someone to, and what we're converting them from. This poster is great IF the viewer already thinks it is ok to defend themselves with a firearm, AND if they're not too affected by the "assault weapon" hype. That is, thinking the AR sprays it bullets everywhere, or shoots some kind of million-yard-range exploding bullet. If a person has some idea what the AR does, and is already on board with using guns for self-defense, you could use this poster to say, "If a woman has to defend herself, don't you want her to have the same gun that police prefer to use for hostile confrontations at close quarters?"

But I usually assume posters like this are aimed at non-gunnies, people that aren't sure if people should use guns for self-defense. To people like that, a civilian holding an "assault weapon" might look like a militia kook, not a responsible citizen. On the other hand, if you were holding a revolver or something else not so frightening, people would have an easier time picturing themselves owning and shooting such a gun.

Phaetos
April 24, 2007, 04:37 PM
Oleg, is there somewhere to get all of these wonderful tidbits of yours, without having to search for every post you ever made here?

Blakenzy
April 24, 2007, 04:42 PM
Make sure it isn't around your body.

I feel that shortening the second frase to that would carry the message across more efficiently. The "it's up to you" part should be tacit; it's understood.

CajunBass
April 24, 2007, 06:55 PM
I like the look on the models face. Barbara is it? It has that sort of half sleepy, shell shocked, ears ringing, OMG what just happened, look that I would expect from someone who has just faced what she did and suddenly realizes it's over and she's still alive. Good job on that.

I like the AR, but I wonder if the average non-gun owning person would think "I could never use one of those. You have to be some kind of expert to handle that thing."

Barbara
April 24, 2007, 09:50 PM
I was doing my best to look very serious but the rest was caused by being whupped after spending a lot of time on the range that day.

I dunno. I still think we need to desensitize people to those rifles. They're a lot of fun. :)

230RN
April 25, 2007, 12:39 AM
The way I see it, you're trying to send two messages:

1. Having a gun for Home Defense is Good.

2. Black rifles are Good (the "desensitizing" issue.)

I don't think you can send both messages at the same time, at least not to what I think is your intended audience.

And while Barbara (with >2000 posts, hence obviously a gunny) may prefer the EBR for home defense, that is not the case for Jane or Joe Doe.

When they think home defense, they are thinking of either a handgun or a shotgun, in my opinion.

So, 3, think of those to whom you are directing the message.

Suggestion:

Drop the rifle and have her with a handgun, preferably a nice revolver, and not tricked out with super sights or anything. And reasonably small. Somebody suggested a snubby, and I'd go for that. Just my instinct talking.

And something that seemed disjunctive to me was the idea of a chalk outline in the home. I thought that was for pavement, so they could get the corpse out of sight, but investigators could still tell where and how the body laid. If she were posed in the driveway of her home, the "chalk outline" concept might be OK, but that raises the question of "was it a legitimate shoot?" since it was outside. (Do they even use chalk outlines any more?)

I love your stuff, but this one needs some more conceptual work.

Eleven Mike
April 25, 2007, 12:44 AM
230, I think with the chalk outline stuff you're thinking too hard. Most people seeing this poster are going to be analyzing that closely. And I think most are like me. I didn't know they didn't do chalking indoors.

ArfinGreebly
April 25, 2007, 01:37 AM
Respectfully disagree with snubby.

She's in a bathrobe, not an evening dress.

It's going to be a nightstand gun or stand-by-bed gun.

If it just has to be a sidearm, I would go bigger, not smaller. Nothing smaller than 4" and nothing smaller than .357/.38 -- heck, a nice 1911 would be right in line.

And on a NIGHTstand gun, a light or laser is hardly out of line.

Please deposit 2 in the slot provided.

Barbara
April 25, 2007, 06:43 AM
http://olegvolk.net/gallery/d/19072-2/bestway9891.jpg

He should be teaching this guy to shoot a small, harmless looking revolver, too, right?

Eleven Mike
April 25, 2007, 08:02 AM
Barbara, that poster isn't aimed at non-gunnies, is it? So it probably wouldn't matter what he shoots, would it?

230RN
April 25, 2007, 08:24 AM
Eleven Mike: I don't know one way or another whether they still use chalk outlines. Just thinking about it, I can't see the need for it anymore what with digital photos. Yes? No? I am not a cop. I agree that people still think "chalk outlines," but it was a disjunct for me if she were indoors. Again, if she were outdoors (in the driveway, maybe?) it raises the question in my mind as to whether it was justifiable. *

Arfin Greebly: I'm not married to a snubby, just something less mechanically intimidating than an EBR to the intended audience. I merely said a snubby would be OK with me. So would a bobbed 1911. So would an old M&P revolver. While you and I as "semi-pros" might agree that maybe a snubby (or 1911 or M&P) ain't the best HD tool, to the average person just starting to think about SD/HD, what they think of is a handgun (for those areas where handguns ownership is allowed.) Or maybe a shotgun, but as Barbara noted, a shotgun was too big for the image size.

I point out that there were a lot of comments on the EBR, so I'm not alone in my reaction to it.

I'm just trying to get a better coupling between the image impact and the intended audience --if the intended audience is Mr. and/or Mrs. Doe. Let the gun shop owner advise them further when they start looking for an SD/HD weapon. (Note I said "owner," not Pimply Pete.)

I'm not trying to overcerebrate the picture/message. I was simply articulating my immediate emotional reactions to the image as it stands and where my reactions led.

Nor am I going to wax defensive about it. Let the artist decide... but he was the one who asked for input.

By the way, Arfin, I believe you owe me four cents. I put my two cents in your slot, then realized that you were the one who had to put in two cents (i.e,. your opinion). So I want your two cents and my two cents back. I don't accept Paypal; you'll have to write a check.

----------
*
Let's not open up the Castle Doctrine in its various forms around the country and just leave it as indoors or outdoors versus chalk outlines.

trueblue1776
April 25, 2007, 08:27 AM
well if you're going to appease the revolver guys with a revolver picture, could you make one for me with an RPG-7?

Colt
April 25, 2007, 08:52 AM
Changing the public's perception of an AR is one thing. Getting a non-gun owner to join our ranks is another.

IMO, it makes more sense to "lure in" new swimmers using the shallow end of the pool. Why send them off what they perceive to be the the high-dive right away?

It seems Oleg's poster might be more effective in opening the minds of individuals who already own guns, but none of those "evil" black ones.

beretta9
April 26, 2007, 12:51 AM
I also think a plain pistol or revolver would fit the picture better. To introduce the AR, show Barbara having a great time at the range, or teaching a youngster how to shoot.

Due to inflation, my 3 cents worth.

Mike Kelly
April 26, 2007, 03:44 AM
I'd say we ought to leave it up to the Anti-Gunners to say why Barb shouldn't have an AR in her hand.

"Tell me Ms. Huffington, why do you think women shouldn't be allowed to own guns?"

Eleven Mike
April 26, 2007, 08:19 AM
Recycled post:

Mike Kelly, we're talking about the poster, and how it will communicate with people who might be on the fence about guns. We're NOT talking about what Barbara should actually use to defend herself.

There are a lot of other threads that debate what gun is best for HD, but I don't think this is one of them. The point is that most non-gun people who see the poster will have an easier time accepting a home-owner armed with something that doesn't look like a SWAT weapon. We'd like them to get used to the Evil Black Rifle eventually, but the argument is about whether we should bring them on board all at once, or go a little slower.

Again, I don't much care what Barbara uses to ventilate creeps, this is about the poster and what people will think of it.

WeThePeople
April 26, 2007, 08:52 AM
I like it. To me it reads: the dead guy broke into this robed lady's house with every intention of harming her. Being well-armed, she was able to turn the tables and protect herself and probably her family as well.

atblis
April 26, 2007, 09:05 AM
There's an art to not showing things, but rather implying them.

Byron Quick
April 26, 2007, 09:23 AM
I think it does a good job in showing non gunnies that AR's have a legitimate use.

I like it but then how many EBR's do I own...four...I think. Need to get an AK and another safe.

Gaiudo
April 26, 2007, 10:40 AM
I think Oleg has made plenty of posters with revolvers. He already HAS been working in the "shallow end of the pool" for quite a while.

There's nothing wrong with also giving the anti's the opportunity to swim around a bit, even if they may still need a couple yellow floaties...

A good friend of mine keeps his AR with EOtech by the bedside when he is gone on trips, and his wife LOVES it. Her words: with this AR, and TAP ammo, I am the equal of anything or anyone that could comes through my door.

If more women got that, the tide would turn. I think posters like this one, when framed in the correct context, can be the biggest "women's lib" coup ever.

Nick

-terry
April 26, 2007, 01:35 PM
I think that most women who are not gunnies would not buy a SWAT rifle, nor would they willingly shoot one. I think the gun should be the gun that a relatively inexperienced woman who wanted a gun to defend herself with, would buy.

Mike Kelly
April 27, 2007, 04:02 AM
Eleven Mike;

I've read the entire thread up until now. I'm perfectly aware of what the debate is about.

The poster shows a woman holding an AR variant. She's either just shot someone and is calling the cops or she is calling the cops and she's about to shoot someone.

I personally could not care if an Anti-Gunner finds the poster offensive. Barb could be holding a revolver and they would be outraged. The people who would find the poster offensive are not the target audience.

You know who is? The 6 women I saw who were at my favorite range last month. They were there because it was something new to them. I spoke to one of them and she told me that all of them wanted to try shooting for the first time.

You show those women, (aged 22 to 30 in my guestimation) the poster of Barb with her rifle and it's going to put some more ideas in their head. Not scare them away. The one I was talking to was very enthusiastic about getting a chance to shoot. I spoke to her about a number of things and I even explained to her that Barb was the President of one of Michigan's most effective gun rights groups.

There are more women out there like the ladies I met last month. I've met lots of them. They're into something called "personal empowerment". They'll eat this poster up with a spoon.

As for the chronically outraged, pro-rapist hoplophobes, screw 'em. They are not going to be swayed to our point of view ever.
Why should we care what they think? They're very predictable.

Eleven Mike
April 27, 2007, 08:13 AM
Well, Mike, if you have some inside information about who Oleg made the poster for, you could have just said so. I like the poster, myself, and I agree it could be very effective among the target audience you mentioned. Since you've read the thread, you should already know that. But I'll reproduce them for you anyway. I don't need your lecture, so you can have that back and use it on someone else.

No complaints this time. Good shoot!

I like the poster, but I can understand why a more "civilian-looking" gun might be better. Oleg really nailed it with his comment about tackling one prejudice at a time.....

Depends on what we're converting someone to, and what we're converting them from. This poster is great IF the viewer already thinks it is ok to defend themselves with a firearm, AND if they're not too affected by the "assault weapon" hype. That is, thinking the AR sprays it bullets everywhere, or shoots some kind of million-yard-range exploding bullet. If a person has some idea what the AR does, and is already on board with using guns for self-defense, you could use this poster to say, "If a woman has to defend herself, don't you want her to have the same gun that police prefer to use for hostile confrontations at close quarters?"

But I usually assume posters like this are aimed at non-gunnies....

Barbara
April 27, 2007, 10:13 PM
I think its a misconception that just because the media hates these guns, everyone does..often those are the ones that appeal to non-gunnies. When the Boy Scouts were camping at our range last fall, they politely looked at my Garand and some of the pistols, but what they wanted to shoot were the ARs. My friends who don't shoot, or who only shoot shotguns, all think my AR is cool and want to try it. And when they find out it doesn't knock them over, they want to shoot it more. :D

Bazooka Joe71
April 27, 2007, 10:36 PM
Wow Oleg, this is without question my favorite one yet...At least the quote is.

Absolutely brilliant!

No, make that absolutely genius.

tasco 74
April 27, 2007, 10:50 PM
I Like It!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

heypete
April 28, 2007, 12:51 AM
I rather like the AR, as does my girlfriend. As most of us know, it looks scary, but recoil is mild at worst.

My girlfriend's pretty small, and the AR's one of the few centerfire rifles that she can control and use effectively (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBIo2jIQbcI).

To a non-gunny person, they don't know an AR from a shotgun, particularly with that little bit of the gun being shown.

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