.22 LR Ammunition Question....


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Afy
April 24, 2007, 07:37 AM
Which would be a better overall round to shoot for best groups?

The Eley Tenex EPS or Lapua Midas?

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Man With A Gun
April 24, 2007, 08:18 AM
SLOWER is generally more accurate.

Eley has made target ammo for decades and it works well.

Can't find Eley? Get some CCI Standard velocity.

dfaugh
April 24, 2007, 08:43 AM
I've not tried the Lapua, but believe it or not, Wolf Match Target consistantly shot better groups out of a couple .22s my buddy and I had, than the Eley.

Afy
April 24, 2007, 08:46 AM
I use CCI Subsonic, SV and Mini Mag generally. And can group fairly well at 50 meters, though not so well at 100.

For some reason at 100 Mini Mag seems to be better than the Subsonics...
But do want to try some decent groups with the knowledge I will not get fliers from the ammo.

Hence my decision to try it with either the Eley or Lapua.... problem is they are mind bogglingly expensive around here.

dfaugh
April 24, 2007, 08:56 AM
Well, besides the Wolf Match Target (which has gone up in price, but is still much cheaper than Eley or Lapua), we got good results with Winchester T-22s and Federal Classic "Gold Label".

We tested (over most of last summer) about every kind of ammo we could find, in 5 different 22s, ranging from a Marlin 60 to a Win Model 52 Target. SOME of the high-velocity stuff shot OK, but NONE as well as most of the standard velocity.

But, YMMV, as .22s are notably finicky about ammo. We were actually quite surprised in that we got similar results in all 5 guns, from each type of ammo.

Afy
April 24, 2007, 08:59 AM
My CZ doesnt like the Federal ammo or Winchester ammo.
Wolf is generally not available as a brand.

I generally shoot CCI, and Eley Subsonic when I can get it.

Am also checking to see if I can get my hands on some Aguila SSS 60 grain ammo. Curious to try those...

bhk
April 24, 2007, 09:18 AM
Both the Lapua and the Ely you mention are top-of-the-line (actually Ely makes a grade higher too), and Lapua and Ely almost totally dominate match competition. What shoots best depends on your particular rifle can only be determined by trying some of both and seeing which shoots the smallest group. No way to know without doing that. Twenty-twos are very particular about ammo and few generalizations can be made. Sometimes the difference between 'lots' of the same make can greater than the difference between makes or grades of the same make. This can drive 'benchresters' crazy and causes quite a bit of competition for the best lots.

You have picked the best two brands to try, although you might get lucky with something cheaper. Lapua and Wolf rimfire ammo is made by the same company (SK in Germany), and some lots of Wolf Match (and Match Extra) have been fairly impressive.

Also, if your rifle is not up to the task (trigger, barrel quality, scope quality, etc.) and you do not have good bench technique and equipment (rests, bags, etc.) you may not be able to determine the subtle differences in accuracy between the top brands/lots. There are a lot of cheaper quality ammo types out there that satisfy the needs of the majority of shooters.

Afy
April 24, 2007, 09:33 AM
BHK neither my rifle nor I am looking to compete in Bench rest.

However I keep seeing my 5 shot groups average 1 inch of more at 50 yards due to fliers. Four shots will be >0.5 in and the 5th will have a mind of its own....

I just want to get a few decent groups... :)

hksw
April 24, 2007, 02:18 PM
Which would be a better overall round to shoot for best groups?

You will have to buy a few boxes of each grade ammo you are looking at and try them out through your gun. Different and even the same make and model guns will shoot differently between different loads.

Generally speaking, the higher grade ammo will help improve performance as compared to lower end ammo wbut which grade works best for your gun is all trial and error.

This past Sunday, I ran a few different types of ammo through a few of my .22s. My Anschütz 54:18 MSR I know works extremely well with old Fed Ultra Match UM1. That ammo being discontinued for a few years now does not get shot often from the stock I have left. Tried Wolf Match Extra (which shoots very well through my CZ 452 American) did not shot very well with groups averaging in the 0.7's @ 50 yds. Also tried RWS R50 for the first time through the gun and it was little better. Best was Lapua Midas M with groups in the 0.3's and 0.4' (5 shots). Still not as good as UM1 but it'll have to do for now.

Switched over to my CMP Kimber 82G. Shot with Wolf ME better than the 54:18 but still not that great. Previously, I had shot Midas M through it and it was getting pretty good groups. Tried out R50 and is was shooting extremely well with it.

The CZ 452 also shot R50 very well comparable to the Wolf ME. Shoots Wolf Match Target well also but it is not as consistant through this gun.

So, it all depends on your gun. There is no way around it, you will have to try out different ammo yourself to see what is best. The target rifle shops like Champion Shooters and Champion's Choice regularly sell ammo by 100 rounds (two boxes) for this purpose, for shooters to try out and see what best shoots through their guns.

I've never had any luck with Eley from the Eley primed Remington and Aquila up to the Match and Ultimate EPS.

Afy
April 24, 2007, 04:21 PM
Just my luck....

the shop that stocks all the decent ammo is an hour and a half away...

Ah well trip on the weekend... :)

slzy
April 24, 2007, 05:53 PM
somebody makes a gauge to measure rim thickness and of course you can weigh them. these might help you cull some. beats eating m&ms when you are watching tv,any way.

mp510
April 24, 2007, 06:17 PM
Group both in your weapon. It may like one, but not the other.

Lucky
April 29, 2007, 01:47 PM
Aren't Federal 'Gold' and orange label stuff actually Ely manufactured?

Nil
April 29, 2007, 02:42 PM
I found that the Eley grouped just about as well as CCI Standard Velocity with my Ruger 10/22, which is quite unacceptable considering the price difference. I haven't tried any Lapua ammo yet. But like some previous posters said, Wolf Match Target ammo worked best in my gun.

atblis
April 29, 2007, 02:56 PM
22s are pick so you'll have to experiment.

Eley
Federal Gold Medal
Wolf
Fiocchi

I wouldn't bother with any of the PMC stuff.


I think Remington own Eley so... You can usually go by the primer smell.

Fiocchi makes some decent stuff.

rangerruck
April 29, 2007, 03:07 PM
generally speaking, the eley tenex, is the finest ammo for target shooting in the world. Just to make their lastest version of it, their Engineers came up with 140 ways, in about 6 different sections, to try to improve on this ammo!!!! including specs, machinery, materials, time, pressure, etc., as the major groups of improvement. That is dedication.

rangerruck
April 29, 2007, 03:08 PM
wolf, Lapua , and sk, I believe , are all made in the same plant.

glockman19
April 29, 2007, 03:27 PM
CCI mini-mags work good for me. I also use the cheaper CCI Blazer sub sonic.

atblis
April 29, 2007, 05:02 PM
If you can find a listing of benchrest results, sometimes they list the ammunition used (as well as scopes and barrels). That can give you something of an indication of what might be decent.

When you find something your gun likes, you'll want to buy more ammo from that same lot (printed somewhere on the box). A different lot of in theory the same ammo might not shoot the same.

Khornet
April 29, 2007, 05:36 PM
at what works in which rifle.

I've never gotten good performance from Eley Tenex in my .22s. But last year I found that my 1948 Winchester Model 52B would shoot into 0.2" for five shots at 50 yds. with Winchester Power Point!

I think it's one of the treats of wringing out a .22 rifle that you have so much ammo to work with, and that some of it is surprisingly accurate.

For years I used a sizing gauge to sort my .22 ammo, but I must say I never noticed much difference among the different lots I identified by that method. You may have a rifle which demands such sorting, or you may not. But the only way to know is to go to the range and do a bunch of shooting. Tough duty, but someone has to do it.

ArchAngelCD
April 29, 2007, 06:24 PM
I have had a lot of success with CCI Standard Velocity ammo and believe it or not, Federal Champion Target #714 works very well too. The Federal is only $15.99 a brick and the CCI Standard is $17.99 a brick. The Federal stuff actually out shoots the CCI.

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