The Antis are wearing me down.


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Green Lantern
April 24, 2007, 08:53 AM
Not a lot, but it's getting downright depressing....

I've initiated and joined in discussions on RKBA lately, and find myself "bumfuzzled" by the sheer anti-gun attitudes I get and see (down to the outright HATEFUL, one guy wrote into a local paper saying that all gun owners should pack up their weapons and LEAVE THE USA and go to a third world country that would "welcome" us. Another at a site where a guy said he would "kick the ____" out of anyone he caught packing a gun. :fire:

I've referenced Oleg's "A Human Right" site and even that just seems to get them riled up more when they check it out (if they even bother to read it).

One guy said it was biased, another said " That site you sent me was the most one-sided rhetoric I have ever read."

:banghead:

I especially love how some people from the UK say it's wrong for Americans to suggest that our way is "better," then go on to say that THEIR way is better.

Funny - I reference stories of old women being assaulted by "yobs" over there and getting arrested for RESISTING - and they seem to "ignore" that...;)

If you enjoyed reading about "The Antis are wearing me down." here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
El Tejon
April 24, 2007, 09:09 AM
All together now:

1.
We shall overcome
We shall overcome
We shall overcome some day

CHORUS:
Oh, deep in my heart
I do believe
We shall overcome some day

2.
We'll walk hand in hand
We'll walk hand in hand
We'll walk hand in hand some day

CHORUS

3.
We shall all be free
We shall all be free
We shall all be free some day

CHORUS

4.
We are not afraid
We are not afraid
We are not afraid some day

CHORUS

5.
We are not alone
We are not alone
We are not alone some day

CHORUS

6.
The whole wide world around
The whole wide world around
The whole wide world around some day

CHORUS

7.
We shall overcome
We shall overcome
We shall overcome some day

CHORUS

Keep your head up. Laugh. No one is shooting at you, so where's the hardship? Stay in the fight.

geekWithA.45
April 24, 2007, 09:14 AM
Some people's minds are firmly closed, and you're just not going to get any traction with them.

Knowing this, Jesus advised his followers to shake the dust from their sandals when they weren't welcomed, and move along to more fertile fields.

Browns Fan
April 24, 2007, 09:54 AM
GL, hang in there, bro, we are here for ya!;)

JWarren
April 24, 2007, 10:00 AM
People with the attitudes you have indicated will never change. They live within an ideological bubble where ideas dissimilar to theirs do not exist. Arguing with them is like trying to nail jello to the wall.

Just HAVE to make a couple comments, however:

one guy wrote into a local paper saying that all gun owners should pack up their weapons and LEAVE THE USA and go to a third world country that would "welcome" us.

Considering OUR country came with the 2nd Amendment pre-installed, perhaps THIS COUNTRY isn't at all set up for their ideological stance. It is a far more valid proposition that THEY go to some other country where threre is no 2nd Amendment. The US was here before their idiotic ideology. There are plenty of places that are already set up for such idiocy. I'll even buy a plane ticket for some if I have to.



Another at a site where a guy said he would "kick the ____" out of anyone he caught packing a gun.

I think that would be a VERY VERY VERY poor idea.


--John

ojibweindian
April 24, 2007, 10:05 AM
Another at a site where a guy said he would "kick the ____" out of anyone he caught packing a gun.

Too many episodes of "Kung fu" :D.

Don't worry about the antis. Someday (beats me as to when, but it is said that no one will know the hour), they'll figure things out. Of course, by then they'll be screwed, but at least we can say "told ya".

ojibweindian
April 24, 2007, 10:06 AM
Oh, and Geek called it exactly right.

ZeSpectre
April 24, 2007, 10:20 AM
GL
Remember the term Hoplophobia. Phobias are a mental condition and are not open to logical discussion. If you determine that you are in a debate with a Hoplophobe...stop and walk away. There is no point in attempting to debate with a mental illness.

That will save you a LOT of energy for discussion with people who may be rational, if uneducated, about matters regarding firearms, RKBA, and the Bill of Rights on the whole.

The real trick, of course, is determining if someone is truely a Hoplophobe or just very, very, programmed. <sigh>.

Of course even in a non-hoplophobe situation if you get tired of the debate (feel like you are banging your head on a wall) you can always say "I guess we just agree to disagree" and walk away.

Notch
April 24, 2007, 10:22 AM
The folks out there who believe that they are to be taken care of from birth to death are really pathetic. For them the police entirely fill in the duties their dad and mom once performed. They take no responsibilities for their own safety, always having someone to run to.
Can you imagine where mankind would be now if folks like that were more prevalent previously?.

El Tejon
April 24, 2007, 10:24 AM
Notch, in the jaws of wolves?

cbsbyte
April 24, 2007, 10:27 AM
If you think its bad where you live, it always could be worst. I live in Mass and the local media has been pushing non stop for more gun bans since VT shooting. The majority of the population of this state is in full agreement.

Megistopoda
April 24, 2007, 10:28 AM
Where have you been engaging the antis? Other forums?

Anyway, one of my favorite quotes, that quickly comes to mind at times like this, is by Kris Kristofferson:

"Tell the truth, stand your ground, and don't let the bastard's get you down."

tinygnat219
April 24, 2007, 10:32 AM
Keep at it! Be polite, but be firm. The Antis rhetoric is actually a blessing in disguise for the RKBA. If you read their comments, they come off sounding like a bunch of idiots. My tactic would be to address a group of them and then stateIf you actually get an intelligent, polite response coming back, engage them and ignore the others. I know it feels like: :banghead:
However, keep at it.

plexreticle
April 24, 2007, 10:35 AM
I don't bother reading or looking at the anti's brainwashed ideas.

Baba Louie
April 24, 2007, 10:39 AM
Our Founding Fathers created a nation wherein every man could and should be armed in order to live in a free state. Some of your opponents might not know that. They might be taught. Others, who invite you to leave, should be reminded of that fact and offered the same chance to leave the one nation on earth that not only allows their citizens to be armed, but insisted the fact be inserted into their new Constitution before they would ratify it.
No need to point out the fact that should push come to shove, either they are armed and ready to act, which would show them to be hypocrites of the first order, or they give ground to those American citizens who take the right of self defense, both personal and national, literally.

"It doesn't require a majority to prevail, but rather, an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires to people's minds." Sam Adams
Know, however, that the above quote is a double edged sword.

So Green Lantern, keep up the fight, remembering Mr. Shakespeares St. Crispins Day speech from Henry V, "We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;"

NM234
April 24, 2007, 10:40 AM
I have to laugh at the "kick the **** out of anyone packing a gun", all I would have to say if I was packing (which I don't have a CCW, nor will I probably get one soon, being 21 I'm guessing age discrimination would prevent that (though I've heard NH is a state where they can't discriminate if you have the proper training etc., also there is no state law against carrying a rifle or shotgun, does that mean in NH I could keep a rifle or shotgun in the back of my car for defense w/o a CCW?)) is "Sir, I'm going to have to ask you to stop your agression immediately, do not step forward. Place your hands on your head. Put your hands behind your back, you are under citizen's arrest for assualt." :) Actually, I would probably just have the cops come pick him up for attacking someone with every legal right to CCW. I wouldn't want to have to listen to him all the way to the station. :) I do have a serious question though, I have a back problem which would make it harder to defend myself unarmed against another unarmed man; so if someone rushed to attack me would I legally be justified to pull the gun out even if they do not have a weapon? (if I had a CCW obviously) I mean, someone CAN kill you with their fist, especially if they are angry and hit you while your down etc.

mike101
April 24, 2007, 10:42 AM
If you would like a battle, go to the Huffington Post. Nastiest, most insulting antis on earth.

You must be polite, or they will not post your post. They can call you whatever they want, but you have to keep cool.

I tried to post the two quotes in your signature, from Wes Clark and Himmler, 2 or 3 times. They wouldn't print it.

Enjoy :evil:

mec
April 24, 2007, 10:50 AM
"If you read their comments, they come off sounding like a bunch of idiots..."
More like raving maniacs. Most of those political sites attract the unproductive, irresponsible non-self-supporting maggots who don't have anything else to occupy their time.

The guy who would "kick the &*&& out of anybody....." is the reason people carry guns in the first place. Unless he picks victims a lot larger than himself, (sure) he's likely to get himself justifiably shot.

ATW525
April 24, 2007, 10:50 AM
also there is no state law against carrying a rifle or shotgun, does that mean in NH I could keep a rifle or shotgun in the back of my car for defense w/o a CCW?

You can't have a loaded longarm in your car in NH. It's a fish and game violation. The best you can do is an unloaded longarm with loaded magazines that aren't attached to the rifle or shotgun.

Bob M.
April 24, 2007, 10:51 AM
Arguing with them is like trying to nail jello to the wall.


Hahahahahahaaha

Perfect!!

NM234
April 24, 2007, 10:53 AM
Thank You ATW525, I was gonna end up having to call the state police to have them clarify. How quickly can you load a rifle w/a detachable magazine (I def. would take safety courses, both the basic and carry course before even carrying the unloaded long gun)? I've heard a couple seconds if your good.

Art Eatman
April 24, 2007, 10:56 AM
Aw, Green Lantern, wait 'til you've been at it for some forty years. I've managed to hang on since all the squabble over GCA '68.

If I can, you can.

:), Art

K-Romulus
April 24, 2007, 11:00 AM
Whenever I get like you, my wife asks why I care about (her words):

"A bunch of lunatics on the internet. Of course they're nuts - but why are YOU arguing with them?!":p

Checkman
April 24, 2007, 11:03 AM
I like the folks who take a few Karate/Judo etc. classes and then think they have it all over folks with guns. Spiritual purity or something. I know a fella with years of experience in some type of martial art(s). He laughs at that attitude. Likes to point out that the peasents on Okinawa (among other places) developed the disciplines in response to the fact that they were not allowed arms, but while they were formidable the Samurais with their swords and bows and spears were stillthe ones in charge.

Up close I wouldn't take him on, I'm not stupid either. But he points out that what good is all his ability at twenty feet against a well placed .357 magnum round. Not all of us have the time or money to take lessons for years. Their is a reason why folks used to say that Colt made men equal. Stupid Libs/gun grabbers.So violent whne it comes to those who don't agree with them. Do you think they know that the NAZI party was actually a leftist organization?

Oleg Volk
April 24, 2007, 11:05 AM
You can work on those people. Discuss the abstract right of a living creature to resist aggression. Then use an example of a rabid dog as an opponent -- could they take it with bare hands? If not, could they stop it with a stick? If they are permitted a stick, why not any other -- more effective -- weapon for them or for less physically strong persons. Stress the egalitarian, equalizing nature of good weapons for preserving those less strong. Explain that some cultures killed the weak by exposure to the elements, whereas deprivation of arms kills over time by exposure to on-going hazards.

JWarren
April 24, 2007, 11:11 AM
I like the folks who take a few Karate/Judo etc. classes and then think they have it all over folks with guns.

I have a black belt (for whatever that is worth) and I will tell you right NOW that if you draw a bead on me, I will not be going all "Fists of Fury" on you.

Those that somehow believe that "My kung-fu is superior to your .357" has watched WAY too many movies. Hopefully, they will learn before they do something really stupid.


John

bearmgc
April 24, 2007, 11:12 AM
Phobia schmobia. This country somehow has raised a bunch of sissies, who who have no inertia to defend themselves against agression. Some spooky mutation, that the will to survive gene has withered away. Too much fast food and television or something. Oleg, good idea, start slow and basic, and somehow plant a clue.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 24, 2007, 11:16 AM
Don't forget to change the frame of reference either... everybody likes to think from their own perspective; but put them in the perspective of an elderly woman, someone who is physically disabled, or someone who is just plain smaller. Check out the Armed Citizen online (http://www.nrapublications.org/armed%20citizen/Index.asp) for true stories that help illustrate the point you are making.

People can argue against an abstract hypothetical; but it is harder when you make that situation real for them by showing that an older woman DID recently defend herself using those references.

Finally, remember to stay polite and take a break when you feel you aren't going to be able to do that. One of the games antis like to play (particularly online where they can do it in safety) is to try and provoke you into rage or into saying something angrily... then they make their point by showing that you can't control yourself online and here you are carrying a gun in public (because of course, saying something snotty online is just like pulling your CCW and shooting the teenager behind the counter because you explicitly said "no ketchup on my hamburger").

mbt2001
April 24, 2007, 11:19 AM
People can argue against an abstract hypothetical; but it is harder when you make that situation real for them by showing that an older woman DID recently defend herself using those references.

Exactly!

ATW525
April 24, 2007, 11:25 AM
Thank You ATW525, I was gonna end up having to call the state police to have them clarify. How quickly can you load a rifle w/a detachable magazine (I def. would take safety courses, both the basic and carry course before even carrying the unloaded long gun)? I've heard a couple seconds if your good.

You're probably best off asking such questions in "Rifle Country".

Pilgrim
April 24, 2007, 11:33 AM
Another at a site where a guy said he would "kick the ____" out of anyone he caught packing a gun.
I'll be darned. Someone taught a pig to sing.

Pilgrim

Deanimator
April 24, 2007, 12:18 PM
That's funny, I'm a regular in usenet talk.politics.guns and I've got them by the throat and am vigorously shaking them, like an iguana with a house cat! :D

1. Argue logically with the logical.
2. Point out the illogic of the illogical.
3. Humiliate the dishonest.
4. Archive useful quotes. I GUARANTEE you they'll come in handy later, especially "liberals" using racial, religious, and ethnic slurs. They're the gift that just keeps on giving!

Deanimator
April 24, 2007, 12:20 PM
Don't forget to change the frame of reference either... everybody likes to think from their own perspective; but put them in the perspective of an elderly woman, someone who is physically disabled, or someone who is just plain smaller. Check out the Armed Citizen online for true stories that help illustrate the point you are making.

See my sig. It makes people think, and drives the worst of the anti-gunners into an insane rage.

Nothing changes minds like seeing an anti declare that women should allow themselves to be raped to protect a rapist.

noops
April 24, 2007, 12:42 PM
Don't forget to change the frame of reference either...

This is absolutely true. And what do lots of Liberals dislike (I know, I'm one, except the gun thing)? It's GW Bush. So use their logic against them. I often get the, "In 2007, the idea of fighting tyranny is an outdated one" or something about "enlightened society." I just say, "Well then, Bush is the perfect example of why you should support the Second Amendment. Patriot Act, Signing Statements, Unitary Executive, Habeas Corpus, etc." Surprisingly enough, I've had some success with that one. You may disagree with their politics, but use their own frame of reference to prove your point.

Noops

Horsesense
April 24, 2007, 01:06 PM
Good advice!

This is the link to a debate I'm involved in. http://www.ultimaterockgods.com/index.php?topic=638.0
PLEASE cut and past the link, if you go to it and PLEASE don't reference THR.

It takes a lot of time to Google statistics etc. and I think it would be wonderful if someone could create an Internet armory of facts and talking points, to help us present our side.

noops
April 24, 2007, 01:29 PM
Horsesense,

The "gun in the home makes you more likely" argument that Party Boy uses is one that you can throw out easily. The Kellerman study that that was based on has largely been debunked, and when it was debunked Kellerman et al refused to release their data. Very poor science.

On the other hand, definitely don't use John Lott either. Plenty of his work has been debunked too unfortunately.

As for "only the police and NG should have guns" a couple of things:

1) Seedy hidden little fact in American crime: While police love to tout their amazing 911 response times, the average time it actually takes for crimes to be reported is over 41 minutes. All that money on 911 response...and you're going to be behind the curve.

2) Castle Rock v Gonzales ruled that civilians to not have a "right" to protection from the state (police or military). So, LEGALLY, the police can and often do refuse to intervene.

3) This one is fun. Want to trust the police? http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

TamThompson
April 24, 2007, 01:31 PM
Green Lantern said:
"Another at a site where a guy said he would "kick the ____" out of anyone he caught packing a gun. " LOL. So what's he going to do when we shoot him in the foot? And is he going to try that with me, an extremely muscular woman athlete? LOL...yeah, right... these anti's can get pretty comical. But the sad part is, sometimes they actually mean what they say.

Sylvan-Forge
April 24, 2007, 01:39 PM
Green Lantern,

Keep your chin up! Maybe take a breather ..
.. Do something you enjoy ..
Gather ye strength.

hankdatank1362
April 24, 2007, 01:42 PM
Another at a site where a guy said he would "kick the ____" out of anyone he caught packing a gun.

Reee-hee-heeally???? Mmmm.... future Darwin Award recipient.

First hit's free... after that, you're no longer allowed to play in the gene pool.

Bartholomew Roberts
April 24, 2007, 01:46 PM
It takes a lot of time to Google statistics etc. and I think it would be wonderful if someone could create an Internet armory of facts and talking points, to help us present our side.

http://www.guncite.com/

Deanimator
April 24, 2007, 02:02 PM
Those that somehow believe that "My kung-fu is superior to your .357" has watched WAY too many movies. Hopefully, they will learn before they do something really stupid.

As I've said to so many anti-gunners who've claimed that women don't need guns because they can ALWAYS defend themselves with the martial arts:

"Xena, Warrior Princess was NOT a documentary!"

chemist308
April 24, 2007, 02:16 PM
I know it's tiring. It's taking a toll on me too. But remember we're fighting organizations, not just individual people. We're fighting organizations that promote lies, hysteria and fear to argue their points because they simply can't use accurate facts for that purpose.

Engage individuals as you can, but remember to support organizations like GOA, JPFO and maybe the NRA (if they don't sell us out completely) and contribute some of your efforts to volunteering there--write newspapers and local stations, check out grass roots efforts. It's not as exhausting as an argument with an anti.

Horsesense
April 24, 2007, 03:02 PM
noops and Mr Roberts, thank you very much!:)

Hoppy590
April 24, 2007, 04:06 PM
i remember in one of the "responces to an anti" threads some one had this to say

Anti: why dont you go start your own gun loving country!
RKBA: We did, who let you in?

ZeSpectre
April 24, 2007, 04:15 PM
Anti: why dont you go start your own gun loving country!
RKBA: We did, who let you in?

Now WHY have't I ever heard that one before??? Oh I can't stop laughing.

SuperNaut
April 24, 2007, 04:18 PM
Keep it up, and keep your cool, present facts and data, do not call anyone names, no matter how idiotic they may be. You may not convince them, but for every 1 poster there are 10 lurkers looking for convincing arguments. Despite getting worn down myself, I have had some very encouraging PM's on other boards.

I am also encouraged by the visible reluctance of the Dems to touch this issue despite the horror of the VT shooting. This would normally be the perfect opportunity for the usual anti-gunners to bathe in the blood of the victims, and they haven't.

That is huge.

Missashot
April 24, 2007, 04:32 PM
It is VERY frustrating to try to sway someone's opinion, but keep up the good work. :)
Some people won't listen to anything besides their own opinion and you won't change that.
But the more you try, the better chances are of maybe getting others to see thing from your point of view.
I've got friends and family that I've been working on for a few years now. I just keep doing it in little sessions.:p

CountGlockula
April 24, 2007, 04:41 PM
My friend Paul said it best:
Titus 3:9
But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

NM234
April 24, 2007, 05:10 PM
As a liberal the "Police and military" should only have guns arguement has always astounded me.:

1. Most liberals (myself included) are against the patriot act. Yet they want the police to have the ultimate power of being the only ones with firearms.
(this is where I disagree with them, I am against gun control; eventually I won't have to say that, but being new to the board I don't want people to get the wrong idea :) )

2. Most liberals (myself included) are against the drug war. One of the main reasons being that it has only increased crime, yet they think banning guns will decrease it.:banghead:

I could go on but I'll save some for further note. Also, I wanted to point out other liberals telling me that I would be unwelcome in a board dealing w/guns (because alot of them think gun owners to be "rednecks" etc) and even though the majority of people here disagree with me on many issues I feel I have not at all been attacked personally and have only heard thoughtful arguements from the other side, not flames. I have feel I have yet to run across anyone who has taken my viewpoints personally; admittedly being a democrat I had been convinced to the point of being nervous of joining a pro-gun community because of my stances on other issues, but now I have nothing but respect for everyone here; I feel my opinions have been treated respectfully by all.

K-Romulus
April 24, 2007, 05:19 PM
I hadn't seen you around before, but see you just joined the other week.

I could go on but I'll save some for further note. Also, I wanted to point out other liberals telling me that I would be unwelcome in a board dealing w/guns (because alot of them think gun owners to be "rednecks" etc) and even though the majority of people here disagree with me on many issues I feel I have not at all been attacked personally and have only heard thoughtful arguements from the other side, not flames. I have feel I have yet to run across anyone who has taken my viewpoints personally; admittedly being a democrat I had been convinced to the point of being nervous of joining a pro-gun community because of my stances on other issues, but now I have nothing but respect for everyone here; I feel my opinions have been treated respectfully by all.

As a Jim Webb-type populist Democrat, I am with you 100%. :)

Deanimator
April 24, 2007, 05:24 PM
2. Most liberals (myself included) are against the drug war. One of the main reasons being that it has only increased crime, yet they think banning guns will decrease it.
"Guns aren't drugs!!!"

That's the response I got today... that's it, nothing else.

I'm a liberal too. It utterly baffles me that out of one side of somebody's mouth they can [rightfully] damn the corruption, racism and brutality of the Chicago PD [now available on DVD!] and out of the other claim they should be the ONLY ones with guns, because they'll "protect" you.

At the same time, the misogyny is so thick you need a chainsaw to cut it. Women are regularly portrayed as airheaded ninnies who can't even tell if they're actually being raped, and who will shoot the first man who stops them on the street to ask directions. As well, women are portrayed as so stupid that they'd give an assailant their gun rather than shoot him with it, OR so cowardly that they couldn't possibly pull the trigger when the need arose.

Last but not least, Blacks are treated as little better than animals, driven to heights of bloodlust by the mere sight of a firearm.

And all of this comes from so-called "liberals" who sound a lot more like Pat Buchanan, Marge Schott and Don Imus. Of course I guess you can CALL yourself anything in the world.

benelli12
April 24, 2007, 05:45 PM
This is what happens when you interfere with natural selection...

You get closed minded, stubborn, ignorant people who refuse to listen to the facts and have there mind set...:confused: :uhoh:

I feel your pain...and it hurts:(

Some people can't be "saved" as I like to call it.

NM234
April 24, 2007, 06:12 PM
hahaha "Guns aren't drugs!", again they are ignoring that making a product available only through the black market increases crime, increases the danger of the product, vastly increases the cost of the product, and as the drug war has shown stops no one who wants it from getting it if they are willing to break the law. No Guns aren't drugs, neither is ice cream. But if you made ice cream illegal crime syndicates and criminally minded idividuals would take control of ice cream causing horriffic effects. Uh-oh, we better not give these so called "liberals" the idea of outlawing ice cream, they'll do it to protect us from brain freeze :)

Crunker1337
April 24, 2007, 06:46 PM
If that idiot who threatened to beat up anyone he saw packing goes through on his threat to you, do what you must to stay among the living.

Green Lantern
April 25, 2007, 12:07 AM
Thanks for all of the replies! I'm feelin' much better now, in large part due to more responses and debate among others on one board in particular. Even the antis, for the most part, are civil about it.

A far cry from being told to, er, "have relations" with myself :what: when I pointed out how "well" VT's gun free zone 'safety' measure worked out at another place!

As for the guy that's going to show what a REAL upstanding citizen does? I - well, it's the Internet. For all I know he's right up the road from me. But even if he lives in an anti-gun haven, I tend to imagine people like THAT being all bark and no bite! ;)

And if they DO back up their words - more power for our position I guess...!

One of the benefits of being on The High Road is learning how to STAY on The High Road. I've been goaded into losing my cool in 'net debates in the past, not fun OR helpful.

But I was able to come back for a "round two" of sorts later at that place after learning a thing or two. Too bad the whole thing got deleted thanks to the "anti." It was a nifty sight, me calmly making my points where the "rebuttals" were f-bomb laced rants.

As for other activism, I do support GOA, SAF, and the NRA (though my thoughts on the recent "controversy" with the latter are on record here elsewhere). I've had several letters published in local papers, including one just on the 19th. I hope to find more tomorrow! :cool:

wacki
April 25, 2007, 12:19 AM
Pick your battles. Aim for low hanging fruit by only worrying about those on the fence. Never let a crazy get to you. Use them as practice only cuz they will never change there mind.

Good luck and don't give up (or stress out)!

ConfuseUs
April 25, 2007, 08:53 AM
I don't debate with antis on the Internet but I've watched others do it!

Antigunner arguments for their position are generally so advanced, well-worded, and thought out that I marvel at the frail edifice of my own reasons for supporting gun ownership. :rolleyes:

Oh wait, generally they strike me as bigoted, hateful, ignorant, poorly reasoned, or threatening. That's the real reason for debating them on the Internet; their own arguments hurt them more than any we could make.:D

TheDisturbed1
April 25, 2007, 09:06 AM
www.guncite.com just made it to the top of my favorites, thanks!

mec
April 25, 2007, 09:11 AM
"ConfuseUs "I don't debate with antis on the Internet but I've watched others do it!

Ted Nugent lives here and has a column in the local news paper. His piece on Gun Free Zones has prompted some comment. One woman said their is nothing in the Judeo- Christian tradition supporting ownership of weapons. Right off hand, I know of three. Not being a bible scholar, I can't site their location but there is the one about waiting for a thief, the one about selling your spare garment and buying a sword and the one that says " a strong man armed keepeth his goods in peace."

The individual obviously gets her Bible second hand (like me). I do wish though, that people who use that particular instrument like a club would at least read it. The same woman believes she is paying her taxes so that the police will protect her from people like Ted.

Checkman
April 25, 2007, 10:32 AM
Watch the movie Crash to see how Liberals view the world.:barf:

Alot of the anti's are just full of hate and anger. I remember being in New York City (12/99) and overhearing a conversation between two well dressed stockbrokers. We were down by Wall Street so I'm guessing as to their profession. They were going off about the gun crazies in the West and South. Their "Final Solution" would have made the Nazi's proud. Scary stuff for such "civilized" men.

deadin
April 25, 2007, 10:46 AM
I know this isn't going to be a popular response here but think about it:

Some people's minds are firmly closed, and you're just not going to get any traction with them.
and
People with the attitudes you have indicated will never change. They live within an ideological bubble where ideas dissimilar to theirs do not exist. Arguing with them is like trying to nail jello to the wall.

These statements could just as well come from an anti RKBA board.
My point is that there really isn't any future in trying to argue or even deal with these types, they're not going to change.

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