RAA/Izhmash Saiga


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ArmedBear
April 24, 2007, 05:51 PM
Anyone have one?

How is the accuracy/quality/etc.?

Magazine compatibility of .223 or 7.62 with AR or AK mags?

They're cheap, and I am perfectly aware that they're not target rifles. I am curious what kind of groups they shoot, though.

I just want to make sure they're worth buying at all before taking the plunge.

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Car Knocker
April 24, 2007, 05:56 PM
I recall seeing quite a few threads about these - have you done a search?

ArmedBear
April 24, 2007, 05:58 PM
Are they the same as the EAA-branded guns?

I know that Saigas have been discussed, but of course not all Kalashnikov-based guns are created equal.

Avenger29
April 24, 2007, 06:12 PM
I thought the Saigas were all imported whole in the 'sporter' configuration and it does not matter who imports them.

The Saiga mags are different than standard AK mags (I think the mags have built in feed ramps). IIRC, you have to add a feed ramp to the gun itself and do a little other work to make standard mags fit/work

Couldn't tell you what the difference btwn RAA and EAA is, if there is any quality difference. Ask on the Saiga forums.

MD_Willington
April 24, 2007, 06:21 PM
I have a S.223, the Saiga is a bit of a hybrid.

Factory states 81mm @ 100m, haven't tried it yet.
81 millimeters = ~3.19 inches

Compatible with standard mags only after changing out certain parts and adding feed ramp. Really easy actually, Add these US made parts, pistol grip, fire control group, & Butt stock.

You need 10 or less foreign parts, you just added 5, add a bullet guide and a Pro-Mag and you're up to 8, the guide does not count.

Galil Orlites and Waffle Pro-mags are confirmed to work in the .223 version.

Correia
April 24, 2007, 07:00 PM
Use the search. EAA vs. RAA is just the importer. They're the same guns.

phoglund
April 24, 2007, 07:38 PM
I have a .308 and a 7.62X39 Saiga. I've not shot the 7.62X39 for accuracy but had good luck with the .308. All Saigas are made in the same factory. The only difference is the importer name stamped on the receiver.

My .308 with a group @ 100 yards is shown here:

Saiga .308 (http://wardragon.com/cruffler/saiga__762_x_51.htm)

I haven't done the conversion on this one yet but I now have all the parts and am looking for the time. There are 20 round mags available for these from FBMG.

My converted 7.62X39 is shown here:

Saiga 7.62X39 (http://wardragon.com/cruffler/saiga__762_x_39.htm)

With the compliant conversion this Saiga takes regular AK magazines.

The quality on these guns is top-notch for AK type actions. They are REAL Russian made AKs in a sporter stock.

ArmedBear
April 24, 2007, 07:48 PM
Thanks Correia for the info.

A lot of noise shows up in the search. Hard to glean much from it, other than that people like their Saigas. Meaningful accuracy information, any real comparison of .223 vs. 7.62, etc., are all really hard to come by.:)

Thanks MD.

Pistol grip on a new purchase is a no-no here in CA, not that that bothers me. "AK ergonomics" is a non-sequitur.

In another thread, I was turned on to a vendor who will sell Saigas that are legal here. The Kalashnikov USA Saiga is a "banned by name" gun in CA, but not a RAA Saiga:D Many dealers don't want to deal with selling them, though, so I have never seen one or found someone who would sell me one, even though they're legal to sell.

Since they're so cheap, I figure I'll get one.

I do wonder if I should go .223 or 7.62, but I already have a .223 rifle and a couple more AR lowers. I'm leaning towards 7.62.

Thanks foglund.

Anyone know if an AK foreend will fit? Are these stamped or milled?

bratch
April 24, 2007, 07:50 PM
Since they're so cheap, I figure I'll get two.

Fixxed it for you and solved the problem.

ArmedBear
April 24, 2007, 07:51 PM
Hey that's true.

If they look the same, nobody but me will know there are two, either.:D

bratch
April 24, 2007, 10:34 PM
Is it legal in CA to convert the rifles to use AK/AR mags?

rangerruck
April 24, 2007, 11:04 PM
it is surprising to see the looks on guys faces when i take mine to the range, and shoot itty bitty groups at `100 yds, especially the 223. But it is commonplace for all saigas, really. I had 2 of them , with 16 inch bbls, in 223, about 2 years apart. they were both moa capable. yes most of the work on them is pretty good, but what they do very well is a darn fine job on the bbls.

ArmedBear
April 24, 2007, 11:30 PM
Is it legal in CA to convert the rifles to use AK/AR mags?

Yes.

They just can't have a detachable magazine AND a pistol grip. One or the other is okay, but not both.

They can have a threaded barrel, too. No problem there.

bratch
April 24, 2007, 11:50 PM
You should jump on them then. You can get the 7.62x39 to take AK mags for $20 and about 20 minutes of work.

The 223 can take Ak74 mags the same way and I've also heard of Galil to AR adaptors but I'm not sure the cost or reliability.

Avenger29
April 25, 2007, 12:22 AM
Galil to AR adaptors

I have not seen one of these actually for sale on a retail site.

bratch
April 25, 2007, 07:50 PM
I think the one I've heard of was from Red Star(??) but perhaps it was an inhouse only option.

MyHighRoadName
May 1, 2007, 05:38 AM
Phoglund. I just bought an RAA Saiga and I would like to configure EXACTLY how you have yours (the 7.62). Can you please email me at electricecho@gmail.com?

I'd like to know where to get the parts and how to debastardized my handle.

Thanks.

RodanVsSCT
May 1, 2007, 02:32 PM
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=5178

MD_Willington
May 1, 2007, 04:32 PM
Mag adaptor

ORF has galil mag adaptors. on a Saiga, you need the adaptor welded to the stamped Saiga receiver.

Standard Fore end

A standard fore end will NOT work without some specialty parts. Dinzag has those parts available at the saiga forum.

Parts
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=13403

Furniture & possible mini-14 mag adaptor & G3 mag adaptor
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=12619

You can also make some of your own parts if you're handy, like a muzzle device and a new gas piston, if you make them from scratch here in the USA they count as a legal "made in the USA" part....

FMJMIKE
May 1, 2007, 10:17 PM
I have two 20 inch barreled Saigas in .223/5.56. I love the darn things. Much more reliable than a AR-15s and almost as accurate. I have one rifle set up to use Galil Orlite 35 round mags. The one below is my plinking rifle....
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e350/mbmphoto/saiga20pgb.jpg

ArmedBear
May 1, 2007, 10:36 PM
Any reason not to go with a 16" barrel on the 7.62?

I figure I could use it as a brush hunting rifle and a plinker, and the shorter rifle would work better for both.

JWarren
May 2, 2007, 12:42 AM
Any reason not to go with a 16" barrel on the 7.62?

No easy answer there. There's two schools of thought.

Obviously, the longer barrel will give you more muzzle velocity. Conventional wisdom has asserted that you will get better accuracy out of a longer barrel.

However, there has been suggestions that the shorter barrel may be more accurate. I've not looked too deep into it, but my understanding is that the shorter barrel makes for a stouter barrel with less harmonic disruption.

What is evident is that there is very little, if any noticable difference in accuracy in the 16" verses the 21".

I have the 16" barrel on a converted Saiga 308 with an 8X PSOP scope. The rifle is capable of 1-1.5 MOA using optics. I've never shot it sans optics, but AK stock sights aren't the best in the world.


-- John

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