A Tale of Four .22s


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marksman13
April 24, 2007, 08:08 PM
So I had some free time today and three new (to me) .22 rifles. I decided to put them all through the wringer see who the top performer was. Three of the guns have a lot of sentimental value as they belonged to my grandfathers. I shot all four guns off a sand bag rest at 25 yards, and all guns were fed 10 rounds of Federal Match Ammo. The tests were less than scientific because two were open sights, one had a beat up old Tasco 4X scope and the other was sporting a Simmons 8-Point 4x12x40.

The first rifle pictured is a Marlin Model 60W that was passed down to me from one of my grandfathers recently. I shot it with open sights and I also shot it last so I think it got the worst break. I liked the trigger just fine, but somehow I still manages to string the group from left to right. I will do better tests of this rifle on Friday, hopefully with a scope on it and we'll see how much tighter the groups get.

The second picture is a Savage Model 3 D. Who the hell knows when this little single shot was last produced? I was more suprised by this little rifle than all the rest. For a gun that cost less than $30 when first produced I think it shoots very well. I like the open sights on this rifle ALOT more than those on the Marlin. I think it is going to see a squirrel hunt or two next year just for a challenge.

The third rifle is my brand new CZ 513. This may be CZs bottom of the line bolt action, but accuracy isn't a problem. The trigger is a bit heavy, but it is fairly crisp even if it is a little inconsistent. It is definately my favorite rimfire and I would recomend it to anyone looking for a cheap, reliable and accurate 22.

The last rifle pictured is a Remington Nylon 66 that I picked this afternoon along with the Marlin. It is in fantastic shape, but the cheap Tasco scope on it was more of a hinderance anything else. I'm going to give this gun another chance on Friday with a better scope mounted on it. Hopefully it will show some improvement. If not, it will still be a fun plinker.

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Dr.Rob
April 24, 2007, 08:45 PM
on the Marlin, check to see if your front sight needs to be tightened. A Marlin should shoot far better than that. Ditto for the Remington.

CZ looks great, but that deviation at 25 will be worse at 100, click it another notch right.

If you can adjust the sights on the Savage, do so.

repo
April 24, 2007, 09:07 PM
I enjoyed reading your post. I chomping at the bit to get shooting 22s again now that I have a nice place to shoot finally, after 8 years of city living. I'm thinking of a CZ 452 with a Mueller APV scope.

marksman13
April 24, 2007, 10:22 PM
Rob, I adjusted the CZ. It shoots dead on now. I'll post some targets after I shoot it again on Thursday or Friday. I will say that the Marlin has the best trigger of all the rifles. The Savage can't be adjusted without actually bending the front sight. I may try it Thursday. And Rob, you were spot on about that Marlin's front sight. It was practically flopping. Amazing what happens when a rifle gets banged around in the corner of a closet for 10 years plus. I think that Nylon 66 needs a new scope and mounts. The Tasco sat inside a smoke filled house for so long that it actually stained the glass. I expect alot better after I mount better glass on it. Thanks for the info on the Marlin. Would have taken me forever to check the front sight.

351 WINCHESTER
April 24, 2007, 10:37 PM
Don't bother scoping your nylon 66. Even though the "receiver" is dovetailed for a scope mount it will not hold it's zero. The problem is that the receiver is held in place by 2 screws. The receiver lays on top of the bbl. The bbl. is not screwed to the receiver. These 2 combinations do not work with a scope. I scoped mine years ago and the point of impact kept shifting. I thought I had a bad scope. Took it back to gunshop where they put their boresighter on. Every time I touched the scope or put any pressure on the forearm, ever so slightly I could see the poi changing.

Dr.Rob
April 24, 2007, 10:41 PM
Marksman, I had that happen with a .22 pistol before and it was confounding.

MrBorland
April 24, 2007, 10:50 PM
a $14 trigger kit from Eric Brooks (www.cz452.com) will vastly improve your 513 trigger. Go to the CZ forum on rimirecentral.com to learn more. Availability from Brooks directly has been spotty (though there is another source, I believe - Whittaker's?), but the results are amazing. A word of caution, though, is that you can easily go crazy and take out too much creep and put in too light a triger spring and make the trigger unsafe, so best to be conservative and safety test after installation. All this is discussed at RFC. Easiest if you use their search function.

marksman13
April 24, 2007, 11:43 PM
351 Win, do you know where I might find a rear sight for a Nylon 66? The original dissapeared long ago. I may be able to look through my grandfather's stuff and find it, but it's not very likely.

MrBorland, I'll look into getting that trigger. How difficult is it to install? Accuracy might be phenomenal after a trigger job.

Dr Rob, yep, I was absolutley dumbfounded by the results of that Marlin. I had expected much better accuracy, and rightfully so apparently.

Thanks for all the help guys.

TimboKhan
April 24, 2007, 11:48 PM
I looked on Numrich for you, and they do sell rear sights for the Nylon 66. Currently, they are out of stock. $27.25 for the "rear sight, complete". Maybe just order one and wait until it comes into stock. Otherwise, start hunting online, with Remington, and at gun shows. Good Luck!

marksman13
April 24, 2007, 11:58 PM
Thanks Tim. Just found that myself. I may just wait for it. I'm not in a big rush.

CZguy
April 25, 2007, 12:07 AM
Availability from Brooks directly has been spotty (though there is another source, I believe - Whittaker's?),

He was having some family problems awhile back. Everything is back to normal now. Order with confidence. :)

351 WINCHESTER
April 25, 2007, 01:09 AM
If you can't find the rear sight you're only option would be to scope it. Looking back, had I tried shimming the receiver to the bbl. it might have worked fine, but that was when I was young and foolish and had "better" things to do.

Don't overtighten the 2 screws that hold the "receiver" to the rifle. If you do you probably will have jams. Don't bother putting oil everywhere either, a few drops on the recoil guide and spring. If you are having jams you need to clean the bbl. and the feed ramp. Take the screw off the bottom and pull the bolt handle off, remove the receiver, then you can take the bbl. off for proper cleaning. Actually these were very relaible guns and I loved mine when I was a kid. It's a simple disassembly/assembly. On the left side of the rifle under the receiver is the ejector. Take it out (it will probably fall out) and clean it too.

SShooterZ
April 25, 2007, 01:12 AM
Great report... Keep us informed as you try new things.

MrBorland
April 25, 2007, 08:31 AM
The Brooks trigger kit is pretty easy to install. Takes me 5-10 minutes now, but maybe 45 minutes my first time. The front trigger pin is peened and the harder of the 2 to be removed. Put the action on a hard surface (I used a concrete floor the 1st time), support the underside of the action (Brooks also sells the Pin Removal Fixture, which works great for this), and put a towel under the barrel. Use a punch (or finishing nail if that's what you have) to get the 1st (front) pin started, then drive it out completely. The sleeve is installed between the sear and front trigger pin. The front pin doesn't have to be re-peened after installation, but it will come out easier the next time.

Again, start off conservative with your sleeve/spring selection. Generally, one tries different combinations of tubes/springs until you get a combo that gives you a nice trigger pull that passes regular safety tests, which include the "bump" test.

With this kit you can get anything from stock pull with less creep to near match-grade sub-1lb. My CZ452varmint has about a 1lb pull, but is used for bench shooting only. I just picked up a scout for general utility work, and I mainly just took the creep out of it (ok, I did lighten it a little).

marksman13
April 25, 2007, 02:25 PM
Can anybody tell me where to get ten round mags for the CZ rifle? I checked CZ's website and got no joy. Thanks guys.

kir_kenix
April 25, 2007, 02:32 PM
Don't bother scoping your nylon 66. Even though the "receiver" is dovetailed for a scope mount it will not hold it's zero. The problem is that the receiver is held in place by 2 screws. The receiver lays on top of the bbl. The bbl. is not screwed to the receiver. These 2 combinations do not work with a scope. I scoped mine years ago and the point of impact kept shifting. I thought I had a bad scope. Took it back to gunshop where they put their boresighter on. Every time I touched the scope or put any pressure on the forearm, ever so slightly I could see the poi changing.

he hit it dead on. the nylons don't work well with a scope. i once put fixed 4x on my nylon 77, and it would shoot great for 2 or 3 mags...then the groups would shift/string out. they have pretty decent open sights to begin with.

marksman13
April 25, 2007, 02:58 PM
I agree, kir kenix. I just have to find a rear sight for this rifle. The original is long since lost. I love the rifle and I think it would make a very handy truck rifle without a scope on it. My dad had a Nylon 66 when I was a kid though. It was scoped the whole time he had it and the zero never shifted. I guess it was just one of those rifles that comes around once in a lifetime. Too bad it was stolen.:mad:

Danny Creasy
April 26, 2007, 12:48 AM
The Brookes Kit only works on the 452s. The 513 has a totally different non-adjustable trigger. Some individuals have had success by shiming the 513 trigger. Unless you are very handy, I would caution against fooling with the 513's trigger.

Also, periodically check to make sure that the trigger spring retaining screw is tight. If it gets loose, the trigger spring will not force the sear up to engage the firing pin securely and the rifle will fire when you close the bolt.

MrBorland
April 26, 2007, 12:58 AM
My bad. The 513 is a basic version of the 452, but I didn't know the trigger was different. Thanks for the heads-up, Sheffieldshootr.

marksman13
April 26, 2007, 01:45 AM
Sheffield, I figured you would come along and straighten us out. :D I thought you had said the 513 had a non adjustable trigger. To be totally honest, I don't find the trigger to be as repulsive as some claim it to be. It is a vast improvement over the stock Ruger 10/22 I was shooting. Sheffield, don't you have a 513? Is the accuracy of mine on par with what you've seen?

Danny Creasy
April 26, 2007, 02:31 AM
A well made utilitarian rifle of exceptional accuracy:

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f169/sheffieldshootr/CZ513Basicgroups-1.jpg

And, I kind of like the trigger. It reminds of shooting some of the military rifles. Such as, a Moisin Nagant or a CZ Mauser.

A challenge is a good thing and keeps life interesting.

marksman13
April 26, 2007, 03:41 AM
Very nice, Sheffield. I'll have to shoot mine at 50 yards on Friday. We're gonna try to play redneck golf on Friday too, so we'll see how goes.

CZguy
April 26, 2007, 12:39 PM
Very nice, Sheffield. I'll have to shoot mine at 50 yards on Friday. We're gonna try to play redneck golf on Friday too, so we'll see how goes.


I'm kinda scared to ask, but what is redneck golf?

Red Tornado
April 26, 2007, 01:14 PM
You might also check e-bay for that rear sight. There have been some guys parting out Nylon 66's and there might be one available. I agree about not scoping the 66, they're just too light and handy as a plinker to try to turn into a target rifle, which they definitely aren't.

Also, I desperately need to know what redneck golf is. It sounds like something I could play in my 'neighborhood'.
RT

Oohrah
April 26, 2007, 01:34 PM
351 is correct on his second post. Don't recall the model number of
Rem. but had the all Aluminum receiver. Same as the nylon with
non threaded barrel and dovetailed for scope use. With an old
Weaver C-4, it's a one holer. Similar Browning and a few other
semi autos are not quite up to par. Each has it's own personality!:D

marksman13
April 26, 2007, 02:14 PM
Basically redneck golf involves a large open area...low cut pastures work well as do sand dunes, golf balls, a steady rest and a .22 rifle. It works best when you have at least 3 people to play. You start the golf balls at 25 yards from your steady rest. Each shooter takes turns shooting his/her golf ball until he/she can no longer hit it. The person who shoots their ball the furthest wins. We ususally give people the benefit of the doubt and give them 3 attempts per distance after the first round. Be sure to hit the ball square or you will shank the hell out of it. It is usually over within a hundred yards and it works best when there is low grass or something to slow the ball down, but it is an awful lot of fun. Try it. It's more fun than a tennis ball on a string.

marksman13
April 27, 2007, 03:53 AM
Anybody know of a way that I can adjust the sights on the Savage 3 D without having to actually bend the front sight? Doesn't look as though it was designed to be adjusted for windage.

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