Which reloading manual do you take as gospel?


PDA






stormspotter
April 24, 2007, 08:42 PM
Been using info from Hodgdon Powder Co. to reload BL-C(2) for my 223's.

Shot a few Black Hills 77 gr. OTM blue box in my 10FP and it grouped 3 shots in .4 at 100 yds. So I figured to try some reloads with Sierras 77 gr. OTM and 80 gr. MK in it and my CZ 527 Kevlar.

Hodgdon Powder Co. shows 24.9 gr. BL-C(2) at 2804 fps with 50,700 CUP for the 77 gr and 25.5 gr. BL-C(2) at 2768 fps with 49,400 CUP for the 80 gr. Both these loads are listed as MAX.

Looking at a Sierra reloading manual it shows no loading for the 77 gr. but for the 80 gr. it shows a MAX load of 27.3 gr BL-C(2) for 2900 fps and no pressure listing.:what: This is almost a full 2 grains over what Hodgdon lists as MAX for the 80 gr.

I know there will be minor variances in a loads listing, from manual to manual, but did not believe it could be this much at MAX.

I have had good luck with BL-C(2) and Sierras 65 gr Gameking & 69 BTHP in my 223's, all with a 1-9 twist. Will work up slowly, using Hodgdon reloading info, for the 77 & 80 grain and see what happens, group wise.

If you enjoyed reading about "Which reloading manual do you take as gospel?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
ocabj
April 24, 2007, 08:46 PM
None.

I use various reloading manuals, a chronograph, actual live fire testing data at the range, and common sense.

Walkalong
April 24, 2007, 09:10 PM
None of them. I have a Speer # 13 that I use as a reference when in dought and I consider it a good manual for quality, safe loads. It does not have newer powders though. I reference all the online data from the manufacturers now that we have the internet. Thats right. We use to not have it. How DID we ever get by. This instant access to multitudes of both good and bad info is excellent. I love it, but you do have to use some sense and filter out the garbage. :)

distra
April 24, 2007, 10:17 PM
Gospel comes out of the "good book", reloading information comes from several different manuals. I use Lyman's my main reference for OAL, case dimensions, load min and max then compare these to the powder manufacture's manual. Usually the powder manual has a lower max charge than Lyman's and I use that as my max charge. I rarely ever get close to the loads.

The Bushmaster
April 24, 2007, 10:48 PM
Absolutely NONE of them. That's why I have 6 of them.:)

LHB1
April 24, 2007, 11:03 PM
Bushmaster: "Absolutely NONE of them. That's why I have 6 of them."

+1, only I think the number is about 10 including multiple generations of some loading manuals!!

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

DaveInFloweryBranchGA
April 24, 2007, 11:15 PM
I'm with the rest of these guys. It's best to use multiple sources when deciding on starting and ending loads and ranges to load test cartridges in. Generally speaking, I go with the most conservative (low end) and start working up from there. I'll go higher only if I can't find a load I like at the lower end. After all, the less powder you use to do the job, the more cartridges you can charge.

Regards,

Dave

Shoney
April 24, 2007, 11:38 PM
There are a lot of online reloading sites, which I will not list. I use them as reference, but I don't trust them as "typos'' are a problem.

Besides my loading books, I use the online data sites of the powder manufactures:
http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp Three in one: Hodgdon-Winchester-IMR
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/Index.htm
http://www.accuratepowder.com/reloading.htm
http://www.lapua.com/uploads/media/H...ngData2006.pdf
http://www.ramshot.com/powders/

Guy B. Meredith
April 25, 2007, 12:08 AM
As Ishkabible said to Spike Jones "I'm wid you.", i.e., none per above.

TheOld Man
April 25, 2007, 12:22 AM
I have my old Lyman Reloading Handbook combined with notes from the last 50 years.
(I bought my first gun in 1953,first paycheck from first job... Was introduced to reloading in 1959)

aubie515
April 25, 2007, 12:45 AM
I am partial to my Hornady manual because I tend to shoot the A/V max bullets over other bullets. That being said, I will always verify my other manuals as well and check some online information.

Steve C
April 25, 2007, 04:28 AM
Loading manuals are not Cook Books, they're reloading guides. Every manual is a little different, most of them are bullet specific. Those that lists loads without a specific bullet make and manufacture are generally more conservative because there's more variation in components. Even if you match the load data components EXACTLY as to bullet, primer and brass manufacturer, assemble the cartridge to the specified OAL you still have some powder lot o lot variation.

This is why you ALWAYS start with a 10% reduction off the maximum load and work up to get the best load with your specific component mix.

Walkalong
April 25, 2007, 11:50 AM
(I bought my first gun in 1953,first paycheck from first job... Was introduced to reloading in 1959)

Now here's a man who has his priorities straight!

Welcome to THR "The Old Man"

Art Eatman
April 25, 2007, 01:03 PM
Hey, welcome, Old Man! Any number can play.

Funny about us Old Pharts. I started reloading for the '06 in 1950. Found some guy in Alabama, a few years back, who'd started before WW II. :)

Ever use HiVel #2? :)

Do you suffer from sticker shock at component prices?

Back to the thread: One reason for variances in max charges for specific bullets is the hardness of the jacket. As a for instance I discovered that one of the new Winchester bullets was much harder than the Sierras I'd been using. Lousy group. Flattened primers.

Art

Idano
April 25, 2007, 01:19 PM
Well I agree with the majority here there is no one holly grail for reloading manuals. Also the load data in the manuals does become outdated, why I don't know. It could be because the powder formulas have changed like it did with Unique, changes in bullet manufacture, or the construction of the firearms. Either way I have notice a trend over the last thirty years that loads that we once used are now way over the recommended maximum. This is why anymore I rely more on the powder manufacturer's data then I do any more on the individual reloading manuals. This doesn't mean I still don' buy the new manuals as they are released but I always cross reference them with the powder manufactures data and make sure that I never exceed any of their maximum loads especially for pistols.

2400
April 25, 2007, 01:47 PM
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/5415/reloadingbooks017sr.jpg

Gnarkill
April 25, 2007, 03:07 PM
Holy #$#% 2400... How much have you spent on reloading manuals? That's impressive to say the very least.

Master Blaster
April 25, 2007, 03:13 PM
I always use 4 different sources.

Hornady, Lyman, Speer, and the manufacturers website.

I give the most weight to the one thats using the same bullet as I am using.

Its a good idea.

BigG
April 25, 2007, 03:37 PM
The Lyman big book is the best overall, becuase it includes everybody's components, plus great introductory material. But there are typos and you need to know enough about what you're doing to recognize one when you see one. I also like the Lee book, not so much for the data, but the introductory material is good. Dean Grennell's ABCs of Reloading was also a good resource.

The powder companies would give pretty nice little manuals gratis.

RCBS, Hornady, Speer, Sierra, et al are too parochial for my tastes.

Lennyjoe
April 25, 2007, 04:07 PM
None. I reference several books and my notes from the past for info but start on the low end of every reload and work my way up safely.

stormspotter
April 25, 2007, 11:41 PM
I have been using the Hodgdon Powder Company info as it gives starter and MAX loads in fps and CUP. I always start at the low end and work up in increments of .2 or .3 gr. and never quite hit the top end. Even then, it is still considerably lower than what Sierras MAX load is.

Art, I have to admit I never even thought about the hardness of the jacket being that much different. As I only live 5 minutes away from Sierra bullets, I use their brand 99% of the time.

USSR
April 26, 2007, 09:24 AM
None.

I use various reloading manuals, a chronograph, actual live fire testing data at the range, and common sense.


+1.

Don

Bullet
April 26, 2007, 10:32 AM
Steve C
Loading manuals are not Cook Books, they're reloading guides. Every manual is a little different, most of them are bullet specific. Those that lists loads without a specific bullet make and manufacture are generally more conservative because there's more variation in components. Even if you match the load data components EXACTLY as to bullet, primer and brass manufacturer, assemble the cartridge to the specified OAL you still have some powder lot o lot variation.

This is why you ALWAYS start with a 10% reduction off the maximum load and work up to get the best load with your specific component mix.

That and their data wasn’t obtained shooting in my gun.

Handgunr
April 26, 2007, 11:26 AM
All good advice.........

I don't think you'll ever get a "book/manual specific" answer on that one from anyone experienced in reloading. Most guys use several maybe, to assess a maximum, but the best way (as was said) is to start low and proceed with caution.
Hodgdon's manuals have always seemed conservative, but understandably so nowadays.
Lyman's manuals, throughout the years they've been putting them out, have been considered by most to be the "Handloader's Bible". Most likely because of the time they've been doing it I guess.

Normally, (depending on the components) I'll take minimum & maximum loads from several manuals for a given powder and bullet weight, average them to get overall number's, then drop the maximum load down 10% and work up from there.
When using components like military .223 or .308 brass where their internal dimensions might be less, I'll drop to even more. Maximum levels are realized much quicker with those types of components.

If a given manual is listing the same components that I am using in the load am I working on at that time, then I'll use it. Sierra's manuals are excellent, as are Hornady's, Speer, Nosler, etc......I've got almost all of them......(not as many as 2400.....God !) old to new, but I could always do with an upgrade here or there.

Just because new manuals contradict older ones of the same variety, it doesn't mean the older one's are no good anymore. It just means that powders have and will change, and you have to keep updated.

Pressure equipment advances technologically, as do the powder's, components, burn rates, etc., but the affect that legal liabilities have on our "sue crazy" society can't be ignored either I guess.

PS- By the way BL-C2 has always been a favorite .223 powder for me, as well as W748. Good choice.

Take care,
Bob

Art Eatman
April 26, 2007, 08:40 PM
I like the Sierra book because of the appendices with all the info on external ballistics. Far better than any of the others. And, since most of my 30-caliber loads use Sierra bullets... :)

The "One Book/One Caliber" series is good. Each book shows loads for various bullets from different manufacturers, with many different powders for each. About 50 or more pages of loads per cartridge.

Art

shenck
April 26, 2007, 09:22 PM
When coming up with a new load I look at most if not all of my books, I look at all of the reloading web sites, I consider past experience, then I let common sense take over. Allways start with the starting loads and work up from there.

2400
April 27, 2007, 01:40 PM
Holy #$#% 2400... How much have you spent on reloading manuals? That's impressive to say the very least.

I've been loading since the late 60's. I keep buying manuals as they come out. I also keep records on all the loads I work up and I chrono almost every load.

The old "obsolete" manuals help with some of my old guns. Sometimes that's the only place I can find any loading info.

wolf_from_wv
April 27, 2007, 02:24 PM
The one I made up for 9mm. It consists of every bit of data and magazine article I could find...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v151/wolf_from_wv/9mm_book.jpg

Grouped by powder and bullet.

Art Eatman
April 27, 2007, 02:31 PM
If you ever run across a copy of Phil Sharpe's "Complete Guide To Handloading" and it's under a hundred bucks, buy it. I have the 1952 (Well, I'm to lazy to go look-see if it's 1951) edition. The post-WW II edition. It not only gives loads for cartridges most folks never heard of, it gives the history for each. Also, the descriptions of equipment and methods from "way back when" are a wonderful history of our avocation.

Art

CZ57
April 27, 2007, 02:35 PM
None of them are gospel, but I'm with BigG. The Lyman manuals show pressure data where the others don't and there are also some articles you won't find in the other manuals.;)

roo_ster
April 27, 2007, 03:44 PM
Art:

I picked up a 1953 (third edition?) copy of Sharpe's book a month or so back.

The term substantial comes to mind when lokking at, reading, and hefting it.

Now, I need Waters' Pet Loads.

-----------------------------------

Anybody have more suggestions for "classic*" reloading books?


* No offense to those for whom a "classic" book to me is something you bought hot off the press. Just consider yourself a "classic" reloader.

FortyRodRay
April 27, 2007, 05:12 PM
I use P. O. Ackley first but sure wish Sharpe was around to update his CGTH. I use Lee/Hornady to update modern powders. First manual was early 50's Lyman Ideal I got with old second hand press in 1956/7. I believe that there is something to be gained in all the manuals so I try to stay current. I also have a little Chrony but it gets mighty dusty. I just want to get out and shoot.

... and I do miss HiVel #2.

Ray Strong

Re:shock

Art,

First time I ever purchased powder, it was in 1952 and the powder was 3f Du Pont black powder. I bought a little envelope full for $.25 from York Arms. They even threw in a few percussion caps. It was a different century.... but I digress.

If you enjoyed reading about "Which reloading manual do you take as gospel?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!