Top Ten Combat Rifles - Documentary


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Quiquin
April 25, 2007, 12:51 AM
This is a 45 minute documentary from The Military Channel. Hope it's not a repost. Enjoy.

http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/101055/Top_Ten_Combat_Rifles.html

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Hoppy590
April 25, 2007, 01:33 AM
i dont think its a repost, but weve all seen it.. that aside
HERE WE GO!! ;)
my problems with the video
mash up of MBR, Assault Rifle, into one catagory and just call it "combat rifle" there is no comparing a M1903 to a m16

why is the Aug in there? aside from the bulpup design, which isnt that original, its combat use is extremely limited. i understand the trigger system is a major PITA

i dont agree the M1903 and the K98 mauser are worthy of seperate listings, aside from historical significance.

and who is this Nusbacher guy?! i seem him discussing his "expert opinion" on everything from rifles, to tanks, to planes. i suppose hes the equivalant of Atwater, but i donno. i just trust Atwater more

MechAg94
April 25, 2007, 11:15 AM
MBR and Assault Rifle are just discussion terms. They were all primary military issue weapons of the last 100 years.

If you look at their rating system, it makes more sense. The rating is based on their value at the time, length of use, and volume of use among others. The rating system is pretty much the same on all their Top Ten shows. The M1903 and Mauser were each widely issued rifles used in two major wars. What surprised me the first time I saw it was that the Enfield got such a high rating. I didn't know much about that rifle, but after using my Ishapore .308, I can see where a quality version would be pretty good.

The real question is how did the M14 make it in there since it was only around as a primary issue weapon for a few years (even though I do like it). The Aug? I guess they wanted to put a bullpup in there and it seemed like the best one to pick. They like to pick innovative stuff sometimes even if it is not as widely used.

It would be interesting to me to evaluate machine guns and secondary weapons as well. Throw in the BAR, Thompson, Sten, or the german sub guns.

RNB65
April 25, 2007, 11:28 AM
It's not a recent show and has been well discussed in the past.

Mosin-Nagant should have made the list instead of the M14. MN is probably the most widely used combat rifle of all time. The M14 was nothing but a short-term wannabee.

M38
April 25, 2007, 12:39 PM
I think the show was catering to the American audience by including the M14 and 1903. Not that they aren't good rifles, they are, but there are others like the MN that are more worthy according to their criteria.

BsChoy
April 25, 2007, 12:52 PM
easy Hoppy, its just their opinion. I thought the AUG was the first bullpup?

selector67
April 25, 2007, 01:06 PM
It is a repost http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=225415

Hoppy590
April 25, 2007, 01:08 PM
the aug was the first to achieve any level of sucess, but isnt the first to use bull pup design. the bull pup has been around in many experimental forms since atleast 1902

im not rilled up, it just seems to me that the aug is far from being one of the "top ten combat rifles" and especialy since they are rather loose with the description of combat rifle one could argue that the Brown Bess Rifle or other colonial british rifles should be on the list

oh and obviously the Mosin should be one there, as should the SKS. if for nothign else than sheer numbers

hksw
April 25, 2007, 10:07 PM
The show, IMO, is barely a documentary.

Since it's first showing I've not changed my position. The ranking is questionable. The G3 getting passed up by the Aug in ranking and the L85 in mention? :rolleyes:

Im283
April 25, 2007, 10:46 PM
I did not see the episode but from what I think i know here is how I rate them.


10. Mosin Nagant M38/M44
9. 7 shot carbine from civil war (I am an idiot the name escapes me)
8. M-14
7. K98
6. Springfield 1903
5. AK-47
4. Mosin Nagant 91/30
3. Enfield
2. Thompson
1. Garand

ahhhh What do I know anyway

Cosmoline
April 25, 2007, 10:52 PM
Mosin-Nagant should have made the list instead of the M14. MN is probably the most widely used combat rifle of all time.

Absolutely. It's been in continuous service, largely unchanged, since 1891. No other military firearm has that record of longevity. It scores low on innovation, but high on handling and effectiveness. Considering it was used by most of the greatest snipers in world history, it scores pretty high in accuracy as well.

atblis
April 25, 2007, 11:07 PM
Yeah. I would take everything you see on History/Military/... with a healthy dose of salt.

Sunray
April 25, 2007, 11:38 PM
"...who is this Nusbacher guy..." I just happen to know him. As far as I know, he's never been in the Queen's Service or any other military service. Don't think he's done much shooting of any kind either. He's a professor at Sandhurst. That makes him an 'expert' on everything. If you get a PHD and get hired by a military college, you can be an expert on everything too.
"...the name escapes me..." The Spencer, I think. Mag fed and ejected by operating the lever, but you still had to cock the hammer.

Deer Hunter
April 25, 2007, 11:46 PM
9. 7 shot carbine from civil war (I am an idiot the name escapes me)
The Spencer Repeater? It should be way up there.

glockman19
April 25, 2007, 11:55 PM
I watched it. I liked it. I have an M1A and placed an order for an AR-15 today. thanks for the motivation. Thank god I kept all of those old hi-cap magazines.

Hoppy590
April 26, 2007, 12:00 AM
"...who is this Nusbacher guy..." I just happen to know him. As far as I know, he's never been in the Queen's Service or any other military service. Don't think he's done much shooting of any kind either. He's a professor at Sandhurst. That makes him an 'expert' on everything. If you get a PHD and get hired by a military college, you can be an expert on everything too

no offfens but i know plenty of PHD's that are not wortht the price of the paper the PHD is printed on. hell i can get a masters for the same as a bachlors these days so i can only assume ur post is kinda sarcasm

db_tanker
April 26, 2007, 07:25 AM
Hell, I am just glad they threw in the FAL. :)


At least the old girl was in the top 5. :cool:


That and they did mention that she was "The right arm of the Free World"


However, I DIDN'T know one piece of trivia on the FAL...I knew the Argy's and the UK both used 'em in the Falkland Island war, but I didn't know the Argy's were FA...Thought that both sides were semi only...learned somthing new. :cool: That and the Brits were grabbing up the Argy models and using THEM!

D

Nightcrawler
April 26, 2007, 07:33 AM
My list, limiting to the 20th century. Guns are listed based on what I deem to be design success, that is, widespread and/or long use by military forces. Whether or not I like the design is another matter altogether. Not positive about the order of these, either, other than the AK and the FAL, which I think are the two most widely used service rifles ever fielded.

1. AK-47
2. FAL
3. M16
4. G3
5. M1 Garand
6. KAR.98K
7. Mosin-Nagant
8. Lee-Enfield
9. SKS*
10. AR-18**

*For a rifle that was obsolete when it was fielded, and only stayed in frontline Soviet service for a couple years, the Simonov carbine was very widely produced and very widely copied, and saw heavy use in several major Cold War clashes.

**The original Stoner AR-18 was something of a failure, but it is one of the most copied rifle designs ever fielded, spawning weapons ranging from the SA-80 to the G36 to the Japanese Type 89.

hksw
April 26, 2007, 01:05 PM
I would take everything you see on History/Military/... with a healthy dose of salt.

Particularly Weaponology. Holy crap is that show full of inaccuracies. Every show something is wrong.

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