444, are all three driving bands equal width on the 82050?
June 18, 2003, 11:55 AM
Dave Scoville, of Handloader Magazine, claims he found some of Elmer's originals and got RCBS to duplicate it in the 82050.
June 18, 2003, 01:31 PM
JackM, please elaborate. Are you saying that the 82050 is the result of the Keith originals being made at RCBS, or that the 82050 was modified for Mr. Scoville in that particular instance?
RCBS' mold man told me this morning that the 82050 is not a true Keith design.
June 18, 2003, 03:24 PM
270 seems too heavy? Was looking to duplicate Linebaugh's S&W load of a 260 at 900 fps. Or would it make much difference at all?
Just using different alloys can vary the weight from 260 to 270 grains, I wouldn't worry about the exact weight as long as you get the bullet you want.
The 270 gr from Leadheads is a great bullet and according to Tommy at Leadheads is made from a cherry designed by Elmer Keith.
Dry Creek Bullet Works carries the same bullet, very top notch products, and other heavier Keith bullets.
June 18, 2003, 03:33 PM
If you want a true Keith design, make sure to check that the bottoms of the lubrication grooves are squared and not rounded. Elmer felt that the rounded grooves didn't hold as much lube and wouldn't retain the lube as well. He also like the first driving band, that established the SWC shoulder, to be wide, since this is the initial surface to engage the rifling.
June 18, 2003, 03:52 PM
My apologies. My memory is going, but I can't remember that. Scovill tells how he designed a .45-270, probably the 82092, in his article in Handloader #193, June-July 1998. It follows Keith's principles, with wide front band, but with a deeper crimp groove for one pass seating and crimping, and a shallower lube groove for modern lubes.
Veral Smith of LBT bullets had some Keith designs in his #10 catalog. He's back in business.
June 18, 2003, 04:01 PM
Good to hear that Veral is out of prison.
June 18, 2003, 08:00 PM
there was an article by (IIRC) Brian Pierce in handloader sometime back. He talked about true Keith style
I checked my .45 Colt 255 LaserCast's against the pix....nose, grooves, the whole enchilada.
Anyhoo.....they looked real, real close to me. Close enough that I wouldn't bother to cast unless it was a passion.
If it's a big deal, PM and I'll send one for your scrutiny. HTH.
June 18, 2003, 10:32 PM
Just a thought. Moulds are about 50 bucks. For around 200 you can get a set of swaging dies that will let you swage lead or jacketed on your Rockchucker Press. These are samplings of some heavy stuff I've been playing around with for a friends 454.
These were all made on the same set of dies in two strokes each. Which is where swaging beats out moulds, you've got infinite variation (within limits) through adjustments and punches.
Adding a cannelure was an extra step (and expense). Cores can either be cast in an adjustable 4 cav mould or cut from spools of lead wire, or compressed shot or???. I went ahead and bought their press but you dont have to. You can do it on the RC'er up to 458..These bullets work GREAT and are only limited by your imagination.
Left to right;
270 gr JHP, 305 gr FMJ, 305 gr FMJ w/cannelure, 300 gr JSP, 360 gr Keith (TC) w/cannelure, 225 gr open point safety slug w/#9 shot.
June 19, 2003, 09:38 AM
redneck2, I looked and didn't see anything that really resembled a Keith. The one that is closest has a to short single angle give and a bevelled base. The other is an LBT design. Besides, $80= per 1K???? Little high aint it???
Maybe I have been spoiled by having a few production casters in the area. If my local casters don't make it, I'll cast the darn things...I'm not paying to ship lead!
June 22, 2003, 12:18 PM
Steve, I have a RCBS 45-255-SWC mould that I can sell you for $15+S&H that has been superseded for my use by a Mountain molds product. It's almost NIB, maybe 1K cast with it and I don't use it anymore.
It's very much like a Keith design, but the rear band is just slightly longer than the front two. Might just be a production issue. They cast about 262gn with my alloy that's just slightly softer than Lyman#2. S/F...Ken M
June 23, 2003, 10:09 AM
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