Red Dot scope for my AK?


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PennsyPlinker
April 25, 2007, 01:22 PM
Greetings all

I have been gussying up my WASR-10 slowly but steadily since I bought it right after Christmas. I just added a side mount from UTG with Picatinny rails on it. So now I am looking for a scope, or preferably a red dot to put on it. I would also like to do it as inexpensively as possible, so no EOTech for me right now. Does anyone have any suggestions or places to point me? I have found a bunch of options with Weaver mounts, but I don't think they will fit without yet another adapter. Is that right?

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WinchesterAA
April 25, 2007, 01:25 PM
tasco makes some 30ish$ reddots that I'm not as impressed by as my beloved EOTech, but wasn't turned off by at all..

Just bought a BB gun red dot for my 10/22 for 5$ wat wally world last night to see if I like it before I buy one myself. (the tasco)

cwmcgu2
April 25, 2007, 02:08 PM
I know you specified inexpensive, but I think your best bet would be a forward mounted compact red dot scope on a ultimak mount. I would spend the money on the quality mount now and get a cheap red dot and upgrade later.

WinchesterAA
April 25, 2007, 02:19 PM
I do agree with CWM.. It'd be worth it to get the best on the first run, and the ultimak is damn nice. I had reservations about it at first, even when I had it on the gun, but once I shot it the first time with the EOTech on it I was in love instantly.

Nevertheless, the side rail serves a purpose if you actually want to mount something above the dust cover.

possum
April 25, 2007, 02:33 PM
I say go with the ultimak as well, and a burris speed dot. that is a good combo that woun't break the bank.

maybe someone could fill you in oon adco sights they are m68 like red dots but pretty inexpensive, i have no expreience with them personally but i have read good things about them. anyone help him out with adco red dots or other's like em?

JWarren
April 25, 2007, 02:36 PM
I'd think the ultimak would be unecessary considering that WASR's already have a side scope rail. As long as it locks up tight and keeps zero, any platform would work in terms of mounts.

I'd save the money on an ultimak and get higher quality optics in this case.

Of course, if the goal is to have a forward mount, that's another thing.

I may put an ultimak on my Vector underfolder one day because of the lack of side rails on Vectors.


Just stay away from the dust cover mounts. I don't care what anyone says in favor of them, they will not hold zero. I've got one that I played with on the Vector. Eventually, I just decided it wasn't worth the effort and took it off.


-- John

sharkhunter2018
April 25, 2007, 02:45 PM
one more for Ultimak here. I went the more expensive route and got a Aimpoint. But there are cheaper options. As far as a red dot, dont have any experience other then the Aimpoint. So....that being said, well, need i say more.

PennsyPlinker
April 25, 2007, 02:47 PM
I appreciate the responses so far, but the rails are already on the rifle, so that part is done. I lusted over the Ultimak stuff, but could not justify the expense. I ended up putting a UTG forestock on when I replaced the wood furniture, and then just today received the side mount rail. There are four Picatinny rails on the forestock, two on the side mount.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/PennsyPlinker/UTG02.jpg

Here is the forestock. There is lots of room for goodies, but I ended up buying the side rail just in case I wanted one of those old fashioned regular telescopic sights.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l58/PennsyPlinker/UTG01.jpg

Here it is with my big fat trigger thumb in the way. I would suspect that one of these days something really nice in the way of optics will find its way onto one of these rails, but for now I need something reasonable in price that won't have Mrs. Plinker using me for a moving target. :eek:

WinchesterAA
April 25, 2007, 03:02 PM
I think of all the AK siderails you coulda gotten that one would be my least favorite. You're gunna have to remove that thing to clean your AK thoroughly, which'll probably nuke your zero from orbit.

PennsyPlinker
April 25, 2007, 04:23 PM
Well, I've already had the dust cover off easy enough, so I am expecting that the rest of the stuff will come out. And, if it doesn't, I'll just take the rail off. It fits tight enough that I didn't think I would even need the screws to hold it on, so I am thinking it won't move much, and if it does, I can always take it off and move the sight to the forestock.

Ranger J
April 25, 2007, 04:38 PM
I use a BSA Red dot on my Saiga with good results.
RJ

jthuang
April 25, 2007, 05:03 PM
one more for Ultimak here. I went the more expensive route and got a Aimpoint.

Me too.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d93/huangover/2006%20AK%20Build/116_1667Small.jpg

The mount shown is the Aimpoint Rail Grabber, which I no longer use. I use the standard 30mm ring, which permits the scope to co-witness perfectly with the irons.

Justin

Riktoven
April 25, 2007, 05:11 PM
PK-ASv

You've got a soviet gun, why not go with combat proven soviet optics?

http://tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/pkasv.html

It's aobut $210 with everything included.

This is the only red dot on the market I've ever seen that still provides an aiming point without batteries.

RodanVsSCT
April 25, 2007, 05:25 PM
I would suggest one of these.

http://www.onesourcetactical.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=150

I have the first one in the list as well as a few POSP scopes.

PK-ASv would be fine as well as the above post mentions. It makes sense to get Russian optics for your Russian style rifle.

phoglund
April 25, 2007, 05:49 PM
I agree with Riktoven. I personally have a Kobra sight on my AR of all things and think it's a great sight for the money. I paid about $190 for mine I believe but they go for about $199 now (Although not from Tantal, I don't know what he charges). Russian military tough, good battery life, goes right on your side rail with no modifications and maintains zero when removed and reinstalled. That PK-ASv sounds pretty interesting as well.

Plink
April 25, 2007, 06:27 PM
Leapers, the makers of the UTG line, have a really nice dot sight. It has red/green illumination. In the low priced range, I've used BSA and Tasco Propoints. I have complaints with each and think the Leapers unit is far superior.

The BSA and Tasco both have dark coatings to reflect the dot. They are hard to use in anything but bright daylight. The Leapers unit has clear glass just like the $250 Nikon that I used to swear by.

Also, the BSA has a LOT of parallax error. This is an accuracy killer at much distance. The Leapers unit has little or no discernible parallax error, and the dot clarity at the edges of the optics is much better. They only sell in the $40-45 range too, which is a plus. It will fit your Weaver mount without any adapters.

I've been testing their units on hard recoiling guns such as a Remington 870 that shoots slugs and 12 pellet 00 buck exclusively. The Leapers units hold zero flawlessly and have yet to give me any problems.

On the higher dollar end, the Kobra is unbeatable! I have one on an AK and it's an outstanding sight. Spendy, bulky and heavy, but it's true military grade all around.

benEzra
April 25, 2007, 07:29 PM
I like my Kobra (siderail mount):

http://www.commongroundcommonsense.org/forums/uploads/1168567538/gallery_260_23_20379.jpg

$179.95 plus shipping from Tantal.

If you already have rails, though, an inexpensive Wal-Mart red dot might be the best choice in the short term. That way, you can play around with different optics locations and decide what you like.

AK103K
April 25, 2007, 08:05 PM
I'm a major fan of the Ultimak/Aimpoint combo for the AK's. Yes they cost more, but it is money well spent. I'm not rich enough to keep buying cheap stuff, so I knuckle down, cry once, and buy the good stuff. In the long run, I've saved a good bit of money, and have good equipment I can depend on.


Here's the major difference between a red dot mounted on an Ultimak, and most all the others. With the right sight and mount/ring, the dot is mounted low and forward, allowing your iron sights to be cowitnessed, (this negates the "dead battery" thing) and the rifle to be shouldered and shot just like it is without anything on it. You get the exact same cheek weld, and handling characteristics as an iron sighted rifle. Everything is fast and natural, and snap shots on targets at 100 yards plus are a breeze.

The minute you raise the sight and bring it rearward, things become awkward and unnatural. The gun no longer shoulders properly, and the feel is all wrong. The sight is in you face and tends to block your field of view. You also have to deal with improperly mounted or ill fitting rails, and if its not the original military mounts, those made to fit the actual rail on your gun, the problems associated with the cheaper "aftermarket" accessories. A lot of this stuff looks cool, but most of it is of dubious quality and effectiveness. A lot of it looks like airsoft spin offs, if not actually airsoft.

I'm not knocking the Russian stuff, its well made and usually of very good quality, its just not as practical, or user friendly, and things like some of the scopes, are often actually made for other things.

Riktoven
April 25, 2007, 08:17 PM
All good points.

I like the PK-AS sight because it negates the dead battery thing too.

I would probably spring for the Ultimak if it were possible to get a cheek weld on my WASR. Are eastern Europeans all 5'6" or somthing? I hate the stock / sight alignment on AK's, so I tend to prefer the heads up sights myself. Though on pretty much any other gun, I prefer the forward mount.

AK103K
April 25, 2007, 08:53 PM
The "short stock" thing is a misconception, a lot of which, is endlessly repeated on the internet, along with the "inaccurate" tag they get. The AK's LOP is actually the exact same as most other "combat" rifles, at around 13". I actually restock my AR's with M16/M16A1 stocks, which are about 5/8" shorter than the A2's because I like my rifles with the shorter LOP. Once your used to them, you'll want any rifle you shoulder and shoot quickly shortened. I find it interesting these days, that so many want that silly slider on their AR's so they can shorten them up, and then bitch that the standard stocked AK's are "to short".

Riktoven
April 25, 2007, 09:14 PM
Oooh, tough words.

I'm 6'2", and while I may not have as much rifle experience as you, I am pretty sure about what is too short for me and what is just right for me. Who the hell decided 13" was 'standard'? How tall are you? How long are your arms? I'm guessing you're 5'9 or shorter.

The AK stock is shorter than I'd like, and offers a lousy cheekweld. I also am not a big fan of where the sights line up with the best cheekweld I can get. It's acceptable, but not natural (at least for me). With AK's in particular, I find it's easier to shoot heads up with no cheek weld (as long as you have some optic).

It's not my favorite rifle by any stretch, just the best I can afford at the moment. Don't know where the AR bash came from, if it was directed at me, all I can say is..."I WISH!!!"

grimjaw
April 25, 2007, 09:38 PM
You might wait until Krebs releases this (reportedly in May).

http://www.krebscustom.com/CustomParts.html#REARRAIL

No idea on pricing yet. If it's at all reasonable and solid, I'm dumping my Ultimak.

jm

PAC 762
April 25, 2007, 10:20 PM
One more vote for the kobra.

Mike U.
April 25, 2007, 10:31 PM
Here is my WASR with a "Famous Maker" red dot.
The fore grip is the LHV-47-T quad rail. I've had this scope on and off the rifle several times and it has held it's zero very well in those instances.
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r314/Mike_U_photos/Mvc-003f.jpg

sharkhunter2018
April 25, 2007, 11:47 PM
jthuang: +1 on the co-witness. I didnt want the aimpoint ridiculously high, so I got the standard 30mm ring, plus i like the fact that I can still use the iron sights w/o having to take the optics off.


Here be my WASR-10: http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l250/sharkhunter2018/AK.jpg

blackhawk2000
April 26, 2007, 12:36 AM
I have an Ultimak with a Strike Dot on it. Only shot 1 match with it so far, but it held up. I sell them for $100-$110 (forgot the exact price)

AK103K
April 26, 2007, 06:15 AM
Riktoven,

I wasnt picking on you, just stating a fact. If you pick up a M14, M1 Garand, HK G3, or most any other "combat" rifle, I think you'll find the 13" LOP to be pretty much the norm. Some are even shorter.

I wasnt bashing the AR's, I have a few and like them just as much as my AK's. I'm just not a fan of most of the sliders you see on them these days. Most are junk, and the good ones are pricey, but then again, you usually get what you pay for.

jrfoxx
April 26, 2007, 06:25 AM
I have a Bushnell Trophy red/green dot on my WASR and couldnt be happier.Selectable 4 reticle types, selectable red or green for each reticle, 5 power settings for each color, unlimited eye relief, no parralex, no magnification.Its seen a LOT of use in the 2 years I've had my WASR and zero has never changed at all.Paid $100 shipped.Definitely gets my stamp of approval (whatever THAT's worth :)).

Here's a link to Cabela's for the scope (linked because they have the best pic and desription of features, but you can find them $20+ cheaper elsewhere)
http://www.cabelas.com/prod-1/0015003712260a.shtml

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b289/jrfoxx/akwithmag2.jpg

Gustav
April 26, 2007, 06:33 AM
Kobra works great and is tough as nails check Kalinka optics also check out Nikon VSD four different dot sizes similar to an Aimpoint but half the cost if you shop around.
C More with the Weaver base is a good red dot sight minimum bulk easier to look through than many tube red dot sights.
OKO red dot sight by STI is also a good choice it even has backup sights on it should the battery fail.
Best of luck

PennsyPlinker
April 26, 2007, 10:40 AM
Thanks for ther responses and links everyone. For you guys telling me what rails to buy, I appreciate your taking time to respond, but I am looking for a sight, not the rails.

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