[David Park]

Homicide rate up again
By Matthew Cella
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

The District reclaimed its status as murder capital of the United States last year, according to FBI statistics released yesterday.

The FBI's Uniform Crime Report, which tracks crime trends across the nation, revealed that the District had a higher homicide rate last year than any other city in the nation with more than 500,000 residents.

The city had 262 killings last year, a rate of 45.82 per 100,000 residents. Detroit came in second, with 402 killings, or 42.04 per capita.

... http://www.washingtontimes.com/metro/20030616-093406-7084r.htm

:o

[El Tejon]

Come on, Gary!

[SDC]

The gun ban will work, you just need to give it time guys :rolleyes:

[tyme]

Note the whopping 0 murders in the past _two_ years in (of cities >100k in pop):

Bellevue, WA
Manchester, NH
Provo, UT

Guess what all three States share...
Don't think too hard...
1) Virtual lack of any non-federal firearm restrictions (at least for non-NFA weapons)
2) Shall-issue
3) Out of State permits

Any questions?

This is not to say that States with strict gun laws can't manage to get their crime rate lower, too. This simply means that guns do not cause crime, nor does handgun carry

[El Tejon]

tyme, then explain Gary?:confused:

[tyme]

Who knows. Maybe there's something in the water.

The point is, if firearm availability causes crime, no crime means no firearm availability. Clearly, no crime does not mean no FA availability, since those three cities are counterexamples. Therefore, liberal gun laws do not cause crime. :)

[WYO]

The article points out that New Orleans actually had a higher per capita rate, at 53.3 per 100,000, but that it is not ranked with the above 500,000 cities, because the population is only 484,289. Louisiana has "shall issue," pre-emption, reciprocity with a lot of states, etc. So it's a little more complicated than just looking at firearms laws, or the absence thereof.

[NukemJim]

Darn, I am sad:(

I love to point out the idiocy of gun bans here in Chicago by asking antis to explain why, with no handguns allowed (effectively), Chicago led the country in murder rate. :p

Oh well DC is in someways a better example since from my limited understanding their gun ban is even stricter than Chicago's

NukemJim

[Skunkabilly]

Damn...for a while I thought Los Angeles, my lovely home of 14 years, had made it back up to the top only to be passed up by DC....

I Rove Erray!!! tm

[Nightfall]

Mark up another win for gun control.

[Standing Wolf]

yme, then explain Gary?

It's next door to Chicago.

[carp killer]

I hope I don't offend anyone but guns are not the problem in the city's. It's the demographics.

[Mike Irwin]

See, the police chief DOES need that proposed 25K a year raise after all.

It would help him fight this rise in the homicide rate.

[Atticus]

"I hope I don't offend anyone but guns are not the problem in the city's. It's the demographics."

Oh come on now...never speak the truth. It's gotta be someone or something else's fault. It's a sad situation in all the affected cities and neighborhoods. Pretty sad...and seems hopeless really.

[Captain Bligh]

This must be a cruel hoax. Everybody knows guns aren't allowed inside the beltway.

RJ

[capt_happypants]

Having lived in several cities with varying gun laws and demographics, I'm sad to say that I agree with carp killer.

St. Louis, MO - no shall issue CCW, permit to purchase handgun required, ranks in the top 10 for per capita murder rate

Atlanta, GA - shall issue CCW, no permit required for handgun purchase, also ranks in the top 10 for per capital murder rate

Salt Lake City, UT - shall issue CCW, no permit required, ranks very low

Denver, CO - recently acquired shall issue CCW, no permit required, middle of the rate in terms of violent crime

There is a strong correlation between a city's crime rate, and the demographics. That's not to say that a given minority is more prone to criminal behavior; it's that there's a relationship of some sort (remember, correlation does NOT equal causation). It could be the prevalance of single mothers, broken families, drug and alcohol abuse, intergenerational violence, any number of things, but few people are willing to point this out.

Of course, it's easier to blame the guns.

[El Tejon]

Standing Wolf, so, if proximity to Chicago is a factor would not Hammond, Whiting, or East Chicago be even higher?

I think tyme makes an excellent point in that gun laws have no bearing on crime rates. It's about internal culture, however politicians have a Welfare State, which empowers them, to protect.

[Ol' Badger]

I lived in DC for one hot summer with a girl. The natives just love to shoot at each other. We crossed an intersection once and heard something go smack into the car. Didn't think anything about it, until we got to the movie theater and saw the hole in the back pannel. What can you say? They love to shoot their guns more that the PLO on a Sunday night after a successful ambush!

[Monte Harrison]

It's the demographics.Exactly. Chicago, Detroit, D.C., Atlanta, New Orleans, etc. have a much higher percentage of their population who are CRIMINALS. Duh! But since banning criminal activity has had disappointing success, let's ban legal property, like firearms. Yeah, that'll work. At least it will make it appear to the morons that we are trying to do something about crime.

[themic]

keep in mind that people in dc think that gun control works, and that this is proof that the evil gun-running virginia is eporting guns and crime and hate to the streets of dc.

[Skunkabilly]

I've watched material in class (high school) that said the CIA drops off guns by the trainload to...um....lower socioeconomic areas populated by...um...minorities so they can't rise up against the man.

[themic]

and yeah, there's another good point to be had. we're not going to win this war by maintaining that CCW solves the crime problem. CCW is about personal, individual, liberty. Yes, there are places where gun laws make a positive difference, and often a good difference, but the statistics are so vague even at the higher levels that they won't ever convinvce anyone and the level of proof would be enormous. i'ts about me and you and each individual law-abiding person having the right to protect their personal self and family.

That being said, keep in mind alot of people in New Orleans don't qualify for a permit, and tourists aren't likely to be carrying either, and everyone else won't carry when around alcohol. the real effect in new orleans is carjacking. new orleans policy essentially is: if someone tries to take your car, shoot them, no questions asked.

i personally can't wait for the day when I can carry in dc as a law abiding person who can carry on the other side of the key bridge, 25 yards away.

[TarpleyG]

I'll say it and the thread will get locked. The differences between the citied cited earlier are racial diversity, plain and simple.

GT

[Ol' Badger]

Fact: People in VA stay out of DC because its out of controll. The only thing I leave behind there are my tire tracks from try'n to escape the loonies!
Racism! I observed a guy on the side walk in Old Town calling everyone that walked by "Cracker" He was wearing a suit and tie and eating some sort of Hot Dog.

[Nightfall]

People in VA stay out of DC because its out of controll.

No argument here. I have to spend a full day walking the streets of DC next month... I'm NOT looking forward to it... :uhoh:

[cuchulainn]

Blacks have a huge crime problem, especially black-on-black crime. There is nothing racist about simply observing that. It gets racist when someone starts conjecturing that high crime is something innate in the black man (no one here is doing that as far as I can tell). That would be confusing correlation with cause.

While each crime is 100% the fault and responsibility of the person committing it (don't take this as excuse making) the black community has been destroyed for a century or more -- first by racist segregationists, then by the more subtly racist Welfare State. Thus, it is no surprise that the black subculture has a crime problem. But If you raise a black man outside that destroyed community, then he's no more likely than any other man to commit crimes.

Then again, maybe crime correlates more closely with poverty than race-- it's just that a greater percentage of blacks than of whites live in poverty, thus a greater percentage live in high crime situations. It would be interesting to see whether there is a higher crime rate in impoverished black communities than in impoverished white communities -- I suspect there would be similar rates.

[Atticus]

Poverty definately plays a part...but being on your own (essentially parentless) and being kicked around while your still in diapers has far more to do with it. If all you know is a rotten past and have no hope for the future, the present doesn't really matter. It's not black/white, rich/ poor - it's morals and personal responsibility, and those are learned from parents...not by schools or Jesse Jackson. Unfortunately the "Great Society" hasn't turned out all that great for low income people of any race.

[El Tejon]

cuch, I believe the basis of the problem transcends race. Being in an area where the percentage of African-Americans is about 1/4 of the percentage of the population overall, I do not see this as racial at all.

When I started in LE, I was assigned one of my county's juvenile courts. At a hearing to enter an amount that the parents would reimburse the county for the cost of locking him up and counseling, the father claimed to be unemployed as a welder.

Being naive, I volunteered to the father that I had heard that one of the large factories in my city (they make bulldozer engines and other earthmoving equipment) was advertising on an AOR station for welders at 14 to 20 an hour. I asked if he had applied there.

He declined as he said he lived in a town in another, but adjacent, county and he wanted work only in that county. BTW, the town was located on the county line closest to my county. BTW, the father had remarried and had produced another child who was about 2 months old at the time.

I was shocked, I was stunned, and then I wanted to do violence for he would not drive 25 minutes to work to pay his debts and provide for his infant child. However, I realized that the Welfare State has created generations of people who think they are entitled to an easy life as long as they vote to keep the poltroons who steal from me and give to them.

The Welfare State is the problem. Kill it and those dependent upon it will harden or die. Either way that is best for them and society. IMHO.

[cuchulainn]

cuch, I believe the basis of the problem transcends race. Oh, I agree. However, since a greater percentage of blacks than of whites tend to be impoverished, a greater percent will see the (ahem) "benefits" of the Welfare State (including what Atticus described). It is a worse problem in the black community in general than in the white community in general simply because of the pecentages you start with.

I'm not really disagreeing with you, but clarifying. :)

[moa]

Some of the problem is racist attitude of some citizens in the black community.

For instance, I have read poll after poll taken of black people concerning AIDS. Consistently one third of the black responders says AIDS was created by white people in order to wipe out blacks.

Never mind that in the early 1980s, when AIDS was first identified, it was mostly associated to white, gay men.

Also, who would be stupid enough to invent a blood bourne transmitable disease that has no cure for anybody regardless of race?

And, there is anecdotal reports from some blacks who have been harrassed by other blacks for striving to get an education because it is looked down on by some blacks as "acting white".

These kinds of mindsets can undermine and destroy a community. No wonder the drop-out rate in black schools is so high and scholastic achievement so low regardless of how much tax revenue is spent on education.

An example is Washington D.C, which spends the most per pupil in the nation at about $10k a year. Of course, some of the inner ciy teachers leave a lot to be desired. Many good teachers refuse to work in the inner cities, and teach elsewhere because of the danger factor.

[carp killer]

The bottom line is that we as law abiding citizens get stuck with illogical gun laws. We have to pay the penalty and have our constitutional rights infringed because some criminals wants to blow each other away for dope.:fire: And we keep on electing the first liberal marxist who promises to make the world safe and solve the crime problem by banning an "evil" looking gun.:banghead:

[jdmb03]

402 murders in Detroit. Just another great thing about living in this city. :rolleyes: We will be in first place when the stats come out next year. :mad:

[twoblink]

I once heard a speech given by a local PRK politician that said he will be "tougher" on crime and "tougher" on gun control..

He said "And I'll pass even tougher gun control laws so the criminals who don't obey the current laws will obey the new laws." :rolleyes:

The stupidity of the sentence haunts me nightly, that he is an elected official...

DC.. Is their slogan "Come to DC, our Mayor will show you how to smoke crack, and the entire city will show you how to become a victim."??? If not, it should be...

[4v50 Gary]

Skunk - someone actually passed out that type of propaganda in high school? Even dumber is if people believed it.

[Mark Tyson]

There are a lot of dirt-poor, largely white, Appalachian and deep south communities which do not have high crime rates.

Call me a liberal airhead if you like, but I think the legacy of racism is largely to blame for crime in the black community. You don't erase hundreds of years of slavery, segregation & discrimination overnight.

[Ol' Badger]

Does anyone realy care when trailer trash kill each other? It only seems new worthy when it happens in the city. Observed a child fly out a window once in Winchester and it never hit the news. The kid touched his step dads Harley was what the word was around town. People kill people! What can you do about it!

[Combat-wombat]

we'd better ban more guns to combat the murder rate in D.C.!