my friend wants


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Bondo_Red
April 26, 2007, 07:10 PM
my friend wants to get a rifle.He keeps telling he wants to go straight for kar 98 in 8mm."I've fired six clips from a springfield,I'm an accomplished shooter" I can't talk any sense into him.You guys have any input. BTW he doesn't have a job he just saving money he gets from birthdays and stuff.

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kungfuhippie
April 26, 2007, 07:12 PM
my first rifle was a mauser too. :) Great choice, just make sure he knows the basics of safety. Incourage him to not bubba it either.

Huddog
April 26, 2007, 09:19 PM
I got my Mauser for Christmas from my wife. I love it, but I learned many years ago on a .22 and then a .223. If he can handle it more power to him.

SigfanUSAF
April 26, 2007, 09:37 PM
BTW he doesn't have a job he just saving money he gets from birthdays and stuff

Is he old/mature enough to own a rifle?

270Win
April 26, 2007, 11:57 PM
+1 to SigfanUSAF

CB900F
April 27, 2007, 12:17 AM
Bondo;

I think it's very possible that the gun your friend should be considering would be a bolt action .22 rimfire. The Mauser is a great gun, but. It sounds as though his money would be much better spent on a gun that won't teach him bad habits and costs a lot more to shoot.

900F

Bondo_Red
April 27, 2007, 12:18 AM
he's 17.Maturity means something a little different to everyone.He's not the kinda guy I'd invite to a formal get-together, but he's responsible enough.He could get a job but he just sits at home.He's all convinced that he can keep a stockpile of ammo because I saw some mauser 8 mm surplus ammo that 4 bucks for a box of 20.I just know he's gonna buy a crapload when he gets the gun,shoot it all within a week,and then bother me about using my guns/ammo (granted I don't actually own a gun yet,but all I need to do is get the permit/license thing).CB9,what do you mean by "bad habits" ?

Sunray
April 27, 2007, 12:33 AM
"...what do you mean by "bad habits"..." Poor sight picture, jerking the trigger, not breathing properly, no follow through, etc, etc. Oh and pretending he can afford to shoot with no income.
"..."I've fired six clips from a springfield, I'm an accomplished shooter"..." Watches a lot of John Wayne movies does he?
Mind you, buying a milsurp as one's first rifle isn't horrible. My first rifle was a bubba'd No. 1 Lee-Enfield. My first working handgun was an issue .45. I soon found out that shooting a .22 was a lot cheaper and I had a job.

Daemon688
April 27, 2007, 12:36 AM
Well, being 17 he isn't going to be able to buy a gun at any gunstore. I don't know what the age is for possession of a rifle but he may be SOL till he's 18. I love my K98, it's a great gun. Not having a job though :confused: He shouldn't be buying any gun until he can afford to feed it. I still don't own a single .22 and my first rifle I bought was a Saiga conversion.

MudPuppy
April 27, 2007, 12:49 AM
Feh, it's not a bad rifle by any stretch. A big part of getting a gun is getting one you want.

Advice is usually best offered when ASKED for. My input (because you did ask)...you buy the gun you want and let him get the one he wants. :)

Avenger29
April 27, 2007, 01:04 AM
I would go with a .22 if I was him. It is still far cheaper than Milsurp, and you don't have to clean for corrosive ammunition. And my Mosin beats the crap out of me. Your friend just doesn't sound like he has the motivation to care for a gun, much less a milsurp. If he gets one, it sounds like he will shoot it a few times, then let it sit leaned against a wall or under the bed while the salts destroy the barrel. I love my Mosin, but even I don't shoot it nearly as much as the .22 as there is much more hassle involved in cleaning, etc, and the .22 is more fun. You have got to be motivated to shoot and care for milsurps.

A .22 is a lot easier on the ears, shoulder, and wallet than a full powered rifle. He needs to learn the basics, and a .22 is good for that. 6 clips (6x5=30 rounds fired) does not make one a marksman. It merely gives them a taste. The cheapest surplus, which I am guessing is 7.62x54R, is around 10 cents a round online. In reality, at the gunstore, I pay the same as you would for the 8mm ammunition. .22 bulk pack costs about 1-2 cents per round, and in some cases, less.

Regardless, it sounds like he will not be able to get one until he is 18, or his parents get one for him. Ammo prices will change, and 8mm surplus may be a lot harder to find. He also needs to take a basic safety course.

270Win
April 27, 2007, 01:10 AM
And resolve to know when to say no, firmly. My best friend was one of the kids who had a .22 from an early, early age. Every kid that went over to his house (including me!) begged him to shoot it willy nilly; he was wise, and said "NO!" until he was completely sure we understood, fully, what was involved. I was one of the very few he trusted enough in the end.

BTW, I also strongly suggest getting a .22 first.

Bondo_Red
April 27, 2007, 01:18 AM
He's a big military and history buff,the firearms parts especially.I know he'll shoot it every chance he gets.Still I doubt he'll listen to me.And believe it or not,He's a realism guy.I'm the one who watches all the westerns and boondock saints and stuff.He sees all the military movies like flags of our fathers and jarhead.

Bwana John
April 27, 2007, 12:15 PM
A guy could do a lot worse than a K-98 for a first rifle.

In fact, everybodys first rifle should be a k-98, with at least 2k of ammo!:cool:

Perfect for learning how to use a bolt, use stripper clips, and everybody should start with iron sights:D

We used to get Turk 8mm Mauser in 1440 round cases in stripper clips and bandoleers for $75, I think its getting a little more expensive.:cuss:

Jackal
April 27, 2007, 12:32 PM
My girlfriend just purchased her first rifle ever. A Turk Mauser. She spotted it, with it's gorgeous, striped walnut stock and decided she had to have it. Price was $99, which is way below that of a decent quality .22. It is her first project gun and she is sanding the wood and refinishing. (Yes, with my supervision/teaching.)

270Win
April 27, 2007, 01:02 PM
8mm Mauser can promote flinching... let's hope your friend has some discipline as a shooter! Otherwise, good luck in all endeavors to him.

Im283
April 27, 2007, 09:24 PM
no job, not old enough to own in his name=no gun

He does not sound responsible enough to own a gun on his own.

Sniper4Life
April 27, 2007, 09:37 PM
"I've fired six clips from a springfield,I'm an accomplished shooter"......... That is seriously funny :)

I have fired several thousand rounds of ammo and I am nowhere near an accomplished shooter. I would go with the .22. about 3/4 of the ammo I shoot is .22.

Hoppy590
April 27, 2007, 09:55 PM
haha i still consider my self a new guy after... i dont even know how many rounds. lets put it this way. i wouldnt even think of saying im "accomplished shooter". and iv boughten out ammo shelves

collateral
April 28, 2007, 01:26 AM
I know he'll shoot it every chance he gets.

With no job, he'll be shooting it whenever he gets money...that works out to a few times a year.

I wouldnt advise a rifle in 8mm mauser for a first gun. The first time he shoots it he will be in for a big surprise. If he actually wants to get in on the hobby, I would start with a .22 LR or .17 HMR. I detest military movies for their historical "accuracy." I've seen too many GIs firing an 8 shot string from a garand without having to adjust their aim one bit.

Educate him about corrosive ammunition, and what it will do to a gun if the gun isnt cleaned. I refuse to put corrosive through my SKS. I pay a little more but not much. Golden Tiger and wolf military classic are around 3 bucks for a box of 20 here. I also have a job and dont have to worry about feeding my guns.

Im tempted to tell you to have him get the mauser. After a few days of shooting it he'll look for something with less bite on his shoulder and his wallet.

jrou111
April 28, 2007, 01:48 AM
I have a friend that I took shooting and let him fire several firearms starting with .22 up to 12ga. Even after learning how to "pick off" eggs at 50yds with the .22, he still loved the 12ga the best by far. And he was a lousy shot - like missing 4 out of 5 shots at 7yds trying to hit a 1 gal full of water. All he wants now is a 12ga and could care less about marksmanship or actually improving his ability to be able to hit something.

270Win
April 28, 2007, 02:13 AM
Some people are just in love with the "boom!" ... which is ok, I suppose, as long as they don't hit MY targets...

Bondo_Red
April 28, 2007, 02:57 AM
I love boom as much as the next guy.I'm an american, big and loud is good,but I know that I should at least learn with a .22 .It's funny,when he told his dad I thought he should get a rimfire he said "get a man's gun" and he was in Nam.

Hoppy590
April 28, 2007, 03:19 AM
ahh, another M*******. what part you in. East, central, or the best of the three. the 413

WinchesterAA
April 28, 2007, 04:53 AM
I don't understand some of the comments in this thread...

I "owned' my first firearm when I was 4 years old.. I did the same thing this guy's doing (saving up money from bdays) to buy ammo and more guns..

Granted, my father was the middle man before I turned 18 and did throw down a few $s here and there for a little more ammo every now and then, but nevertheless, I think it all comes down to how badly this kid wants to shoot.

Additionally, as soon as I branched away from my father's "firearms are for hunting" stance and got more into my uncle's "I bought 1200 acres of land just so I could walk out in my backyard and blow stuff up" stance I was CRAVING a job so I could buy more ammo.

It's like a gateway drug, getting a nice rifle with ammo that's cheap as hell for people who work, but far too expensive for people that don't. Makes you do all kinds of crazy stuff to advance your life to the point where you can comfortably exist all the while wreaking lots of havoc on paper targets and the occasional kitchen appliance that finds it's way into the back of your truck you just bought so you could actually drive to your deer lease you just started paying dues on without worrying about getting stuck in your first car - 1991 mazda 626 with 215k miles on it.


come on now, he's 17! I say he should buy whatever it is he wants (but definitely make sure to take ammo prices/availability as well as magazine prices/availability if applicable into serious consideration)


ETA - If that dude only has 30rds under his belt he has a hell of a long way to go..

Someone said they've bought out shelves of ammo and still feel new... As soon as I learned Academy had boxes of monarch FMJ in x39 for 2.86$ a box I went to 3 different stores and bought out all they had. Came home with 3500 or so rds and still wanted more, so I bought a couple of cases of 154gr JSPs from sportsmansguide. All that's gone, all I have left is 2 mags with the 154gr and maybe 1000rds of wolf MC JHP.

and that was just a few months ago lol. I still feel pretty new to the game.

Hiaboo
April 28, 2007, 06:30 AM
woo woo mass residents represent! :neener: *note I know my location says NY but that's where I am in school*

I'm going to jump on the bandwagon and say a rimfire. I remember when I first started shooting with my uncle, I shot most of the common calibers in rifles and still my favorite -- The rimfire.

I agree with what WinchesterAA says 100%

Clipper
April 28, 2007, 10:04 AM
A .22 is nice if he wants one, but I'll bet there were several thousand German boys who learned to shoot with a M-98 that didn't do too badly...

CB900F
April 28, 2007, 10:36 AM
Fella's;

There are German military Mausers in .22 as training rifles. I'm not a mil-surp collector, but I understand that those .22's are rather valuable these days. Being that those training rifles exist, it would seem reasonable to presume that the Wehrmacht knew the value of starting to teach troops to shoot with something less than the 8 X 57.

The reason they didn't is problematical, but one could suppose it had something to do with rampant ambition and a tolerance factor close to negative numbers. Can you say "Hitler"? Which begs the question that if the troops had been taught with .22's first, their marksmanship may have been improved to the point where they'd-a won the war. Or, to paraphrase somebody's tag line here; 'You can't miss fast enough to win'.

900F

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