[Eleven Mike]

I'm considering these two knives, and would welcome your opinions. Obviously, one is pricier than the other, but let me know what you think of each one. Both are similar in size, shape and locking system. They would be carried from time to time when I'm not wearing my regular EDC. If anyone can recommend a good place to buy online, please speak up. Or if you have one you want to give me...

The CRKT Carson M4

http://www.agrussell.com/var/storage/variations/image/p/h/p/phpL9zdwl_550-.75x550_139421.jpg

The Benchmade Dejavoo, 745
http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/bnchmd/images/745.jpg

[hso]

Don't you hate holes for openers???

You can get the Carson in an assist. The M4 is a authorized copy of one of the most popular custom folders ever made with reasonably good materials and, supposedly, well done. All at a fraction of the price.

The materials in the 745 are a lot pricier and that's reflected in the price of the knife. I am a fan of holes for openers and I like the look of the 745 in the picture.

I haven't handled a 745 so I can't say anything negative about it, but I have handled plenty of Kit's model 4s and since he's a bud I'll push for the CRKT.

[Eleven Mike]

I do hate holes. Well, no, I don't hate 'em. But they haven't worked that well for me in the past. Right now, I'm leaning toward the Benchmade, especially as I have this scheme to get a few family members to chip in on one as a present. I'd really like to get my hands on both models, so I can try 'em out. Guess I'll have to hit up the knife dealers in town.

Thanks for the input. What is your involvement in the knife business, if I might ask?

Oh, I'd also like to ask about the assisted opening. I've never had one before, and the last one I handled seemed a little out of control. I feared I would cut myself. Should I be scared of those things? Do they tend to open up unexpectedly?

[asknight]

Without handling each model, I would be more inclined to recommend the Benchmade just based on a couple of important factors.

The grip design and material of the Carson M4 appears slippery (more when wet) and un-necessarily heavy (over an ounce more than the Dejavoo). A heavy handled knife that is slippery when wet has been dangerous for me. I have the scars. For controllability, I prefer the balance to be slightly blade-heavy, as the Benchmade appears to be though this is merely a personal preference. I am a fan of the thumb-post opening as designed on the M4, but the grip and controllability factors are of more importance to me.

Which blade steel do you prefer? The S30V in the Benchmade is a little harder than the AUS8 in the Carson, so the maintenance labor will be increased a fraction with the Dejavoo.

I also prefer a polished finish over a bead blast, so that it always a $ for labor factor.

I've not been able to confirm it yet, but I am led to believe from the M4 documentation (http://www.crkt.com/m4.html) that it is made overseas like many of their other Carson designs since it doesn't explicitly say Made in USA. The Dejavoo is clearly advertised as American.

I vote for the Dejavoo.

[JShirley]

hso is an avid collector (he makes me look like a piker- he has single pieces worth more than my entire collection!) and part-time dealer.

John

[Fosbery]

Just from looking I'd say the Dejavoo has considerably more cutting power and a more secure grip. I live S30V too.

But I've not used either knife so ignore everything I say :neener:

[asknight]

Aric <xxx@gmail.com> Fri, Apr 27, 2007 at 12:32 AM
To: info@crkt.com
Can you tell me what the country of origin of the Carson M4?

--
Thank you,
Aric

Customer Service for Columbia River Knife & Tool <info@crkt.com> Fri, Apr 27, 2007 at 11:11 AM
To: Aric <xxx@gmail.com>

Hi Aric,



Thank you for your email. The M4 is being manufactured in Taiwan!



Thanks for your support of CRKT!



Lindsey Phelps

Columbia River Knife and Tool

800-891-3100 / 503-685-5015

:barf: :barf: :cuss: :banghead:

[Eleven Mike]

Why so angry? Do you not like Taiwan? By the way, do you know where I can get a Buy American bumper sticker for my new Toyota? Thanks.

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

I'd take the Benchmade just by the name----without ever seeing what CRKT is even offering.

[mp510]

I personally don't care for the Benchmade's aesthetics or the use of an opening hole. I have used other knives with opening holes, and I always find them more difficult to open than thumbstud knives.If I wasto go with either, I would go with the CRKT- I have a bias towards a slightly heftier less plasticy knife.

[hso]

The problem that most people have with an assisted opener is that they try to open it just like a standard thumb-stud opener. They're still pushing the blade around the pivot when the spring takes over and they fall behind and come close to gashing thier thumb on the edge.

The technique with an assisted opener is more like a flicking motion like you'd flip a coin or a straight push forward. This keeps the thumb from falling off the blade and behind and away from the edge.

****************************************************************************
As to American made vs offshore - Almost every knife manufacturer in the U.S. has some, if not all, of their line made off shore. Factories in Japan, Germany, Italy, Taiwan and now China produce knives for U.S. knife companies. To my knowledge only two major knife manufacturers doen't and that's Ontario and Case. Benchmade now has knives made in the People's Republic of China as do others. CRKT does not have knives made in the PRC.

[asknight]

Eleven Mike: strictly a personal preference, but I like to keep my consumer dollars here in America.

I know you were being a bit sarcastic, but it is highly likely that your Toyota was assembled here in America. Even if the foreign parts content is 60% or greater, there is a high probability that the raw material originated in the US before going to Japan to be forged or cast into auto parts and coming back to America to be assembled into an auto.

[Eleven Mike]

I have used other knives with opening holes, and I always find them more difficult to open than thumbstud knives.

I had the same trouble with my old Endura, but I'll give this one a try. I would even put a zip-tie on that $150 knife, because I like it, so far, having not handled it yet.

As far as one of these knives being more plasticky, I think the M4 is the plastickier of the two. It has a metal/Zytel handle, and the Benchmade has a G10 handle. Whatever G10 may be made from, it does not look or feel like plastic, at least not the G10 I've seen. Now, if they just made a Dejavoo with Ironwood scales. :(

I'm liking the Benchmade due to its longer blade and handle, and its better finish. The S30V also sounds like a better steel, although I only say that because it's not as common as AUS 8. :)

[whited]

I don't know/can't find what the M4 is, but if I were to buy a folder, it might
be the CRKT Desert Cruiser. What does mr. hso think of this model ????

[A3rd.Zero]

Don't know if you all know of agrussell.com but I think you can get almost anything through them. Their prices are good, and their service is great. Also they sell a bunch of "Made in Amercia" knives.

I don't have any affiliation with them, just like their stuff, and their catalog is simple and attractive which counts for a lot, IMHO.

Milo

[bobbytm]

I have a CRKT m16/14M big dog by Kit Carson and i can say that's a wonderfull knife.

[Eleven Mike]

Curiously, I'm not asking about any other CRKT knives, just the one listed. Thanks, guys. I wouldn't give a plug nickel for their mall ninja crap.

[JTW Jr.]

I havent heard of the M4's shipping yet , anyone else ?

I will definately get one of the M4's , tie me over till my small Carson Model 4 is ready :)

[hso]

Cruiser - good.
Jim Hammond is a great guy and the Cruiser feels pretty good in the hand and is a solid knife.

11M,

You can have the zytel scales taken off and replaced with rosewood (or whatever you like).

G-10 is pressure formed woven glass cloth in epoxy composite (http://www.jjorly.com/g10_fr4_sheets_fabricator.htm). Zytel is actually a high impact nylon family polymer, but "zytel" in the knife world usually means a glass fiber reinforced nylon composite.

[Ghostdog]

I own the DeJavoo and love it! It opens very well with just a flick of the wrist in foward or reverse grip. The weight makes it great for an EDC. Don't know about the M4, so this is just my $ .02

[steeltiger]

Though I like the dejavu design, it has the spyderhole wich is a spyderco regersterd trademark, so I'd get the CRKT. BM's are great, but are reaping the profets from patent infringement.

[Fosbery]

Spyderco and Benchmade have come to 'an agreement' over the Spydie hole. Rumour has it that Benchmade can use the Spydei hole, but Spyderco can use the AXIS lock! :eek:

[PH/CIB]

I just retired my Spyderco Endura 4 inch serrated blade, for a Kershaw assisted opening folder, the Kershaw is the same size as the Endura, but the handle and blade are tactical black which I like. I have never had the Kershaw come open in my pocket and it opens with a thumb stud which I never use or on the other side of the blade and handle a small lever which you flick with your index finger to open the blade, very fast and reliable, liner lock and cost me $62. At the Tulsa Gun Show in April my Brother picked up basically the same knife design by Zero Tolerance Knives Stryder/Onion design with a camo blade for $225, I like it so well I am thinking of buying it also. Happy Hunting!

[Eleven Mike]

I just retired my Spyderco Endura 4 inch serrated blade,


Wait. They have four-inch Enduras now? I thought they were 3.5 or so.

[steeltiger]

the enduras are 3 5/8ths, I own an E4.

I havent heard anything on the axis, I dont think so, but I'm going to check in a few.

[coelacanth]

I've never had a problem with the hole in the blade concept to assist opening but it has to be the right size for your hand or the whole thing is awkward and a bit pointless. Same goes for a tapered stud type arrangement that your thumb keeps slipping off of just when you really need it to work. I have been very pleased with the Benchmade knives I have and feel they are generally worth the price of admission so that would be my recommendation. Good luck.

[stiletto raggio]

Benchmade and Spyderco are my favorite manual open knives, and the majority of Bnechmades I buy use the Spydie hole. The hole is the most reliable means to open a knife manually because it is a) larger than any thumbstuf I have seen and b) recessed. The fact that your thumb goes into it rather than just pushes against it makes it easier to use with gloves, numb or slippery hands, and with your "off" hand. It also won't break off or catch on clothing.

High polished blades are much less prone to rusting than bead blasted blades.

G-10 is an excellent handle material. Great texture and feel, no slippage and plenty resistant to cracking.

The dejavoo is the better knife.

[Eleven Mike]

stilleto,

Some good points there. Thanks. I probably will go with the Dejavoo, although I don't expect the hole to work that well for me. I've always had better luck with studs.