Pike County, Illinois tells state that they will not recognize anti-2a laws


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CNYCacher
April 26, 2007, 10:58 PM
Just got this in an email. It's a follow-up on this thread (http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=272535).


Pike County is renowned for some of the best whitetail and wild turkey hunting in Illinois. That deserved reputation has turned hunting into a significant revenue source for the county and its residents.

A threat to that revenue may cause Pittsfield, the county seat, to someday be known as the spot where a quiet groundswell of protest against the growing proliferation of firearms restrictions finally erupted into grassroots action.

On Tuesday evening the Pike County Board citing the Second Amendment of the Constitution of the United States, passed a resolution saying no to any state legislation limiting the right to keep and bear arms would be recognized in Pike County.

Their resolution minces no words:

"Now, Therefore, It Be And Is Hereby Resolved, that the people of Pike County, Illinois, do oppose the enactment of any legislation that would infringe upon the Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms, and deem such laws to be Unconstitutional and beyond lawful Legislative Authority."

In short, no state law placing any limitations on firearms will be valid in Pike County.

This action is aimed squarely at a measure currently being proposed by the state legislature. This proposed state legislation would outlaw semiautomatic firearms and ban .50 caliber firearms (including muzzleloaders). It is being championed by two Chicago residents: Mayor Richard M. Daley and Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich.

It may be popular in Chicago political circles, but it's not going to win Blagojevich any votes in Pike County.

One of the two Pike County Board Members who sponsored the Resolution, Robert Kanady, says he hopes the measure would "be the spark that lights a cannon heard all across the United States."

Co-sponsor Mark Mountain said: "We have to stand up. We have to voice our opinion. As an individual, it doesn't mean much. As a county, it means more. As three or four counties, it means a lot."

In recognition of the resolution's importance, the Tuesday meeting was reportedly the most heavily attended public meeting in county history. Residents overflowed the courtroom, spilling out into the courthouse rotunda.

The measure also had extensive public discussion. At one point, a reluctant commissioner raised concerns that perhaps the measure was a "political hot button" and not something in which a county government should involve itself.

That drew an emotional response from one resident:

"This proposed legislation would greatly harm the citizens of this county, and we believe the members of our County Board are bound by the oaths of office to speak for us on this issue.

"The issue here is not politics, the issue is freedom. Freedom began in this nation more than 200 years ago, when small groups of people like us, in towns even smaller than ours, gathered together to tell the King who tried to rule them from a huge city an ocean away, 'Enough is enough!' Freedom will only survive today if we have the courage to do the same."

In closing, he offered: "In this room tonight we are not conservatives; we are not liberals. In this room tonight we are not Democrats; we are not Republicans. In this room tonight we are Americans."

The standing ovation he received was apparently enough to convince the Commission to overwhelmingly pass the measure.

Pike County's resolution may, indeed, be unprecedented in modern history. Our research (albeit brief at this point) has yet to produce another instance of a county government having voted to refuse to enforce proposed state statutes it viewed to be in conflict with federal law.

And the Pike County Resolution minces no words as to why they felt the action necessary: "the People of Pike County, Illinois, derive great economic benefit from all safe forms of firearms recreation, hunting, and shooting conducted within Pike County using all types of firearms allowable under the United States Constitution and the Constitution of the State of Illinois."

The resolution also cites the Commission's sworn duty to uphold the United States Constitution and the Constitution of the State of Illinois, saying the proposed legislation currently under consideration by the Illinois State Legislature would "infringe the Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms, and would ban the possession and use of firearms now employed by individual citizens in Pike County, Illinois, for defense of Life, Liberty, and Property, and would ban the possession and use of firearms now employed for safe forms of firearms recreation, hunting, and shooting conducted within Pike County, Illinois.

In Canada, several provincial governments flatly refused to enforce revisions to the country's firearms registry. The provincial governments said the changers were not only ill advised, but unenforceable. Eventually their resistance became a major political factor, turning out the liberal ruling party and electing a conservative government that has systematically dismantled the registry.

The decision in Pike County was not one that was lightly made, nor considered. Officials had carried on quiet talks with outside Illinois before Tuesday evening's vote. We have learned those talks have led other local governments to begin considering similar measures as a means of expressing their displeasure with attempts to legislate firearms out of the hands of law-abiding citizens.

Individuals involved in those conversations speak of the frustration of a large, and formerly quiet group of citizens who feel the will of the majority of the people is being ignored by legislators.

Should Pike County's resolution catch on across Illinois and correspondingly across America, this single action taken by a small county government may, indeed, ignite a chain of similar actions across the country that serve notice that the majority opinion of Americans heartland regarding firearms will no longer be ignored.

If you enjoyed reading about "Pike County, Illinois tells state that they will not recognize anti-2a laws" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
only1asterisk
April 26, 2007, 11:13 PM
I'm speechless! Really, what can you say? That took some big brass balls!

David

Uenoparker
April 26, 2007, 11:14 PM
Three cheers for the good folks in Pike County, Illinois! May this be the shot heard round the country!

MudPuppy
April 26, 2007, 11:37 PM
Montana and Pike County--so that's we're the Americans are haning out! Bravo!

hotpig
April 26, 2007, 11:40 PM
Hunting is one of the industries we have in the tri county area. Even Ted Nugent has property to hunt on. I live just SE of the Pike County line in Greene County IL. John Wayne also had recreational property here. The private air strip is still in use.

Neo-Luddite
April 26, 2007, 11:43 PM
They are clearly the tip of the spear, ...I mean pike, on this.

Form up the square, let none pass. Maybe they could invite Daley to come down and 'splain himself properly.

alucard0822
April 27, 2007, 12:04 AM
This is great news, hopefully there are more elected officials that will stand up for the people. Reactions like this are inevitable and probably only going to increase in number with draconian infringements on our rights. I have posted their web page, looks like a nice place

http://www.pikeil.org/

Owen
April 27, 2007, 12:12 AM
would this happen to be the county that contains Springfield, Rock River, Aramlite, DPMS, Les Baer, etc?

hotpig
April 27, 2007, 12:14 AM
Pike is considered west central Illinois. The mfg places are up north with the anti gun people.

Ric in Richmond
April 27, 2007, 12:22 AM
Wow I am impressed! There is hope for Illinois...but watch your back!!!

RockRifle
April 27, 2007, 12:38 AM
Glad to see the decent people taking a stand!!! I've never been to Pike County, but it sounds like my kind of place. :D :D

collateral
April 27, 2007, 01:44 AM
cheers to the people of pike county!
Im ecstatic honestly, hopefully others will see this example and become empowered to follow it.

Glockman17366
April 27, 2007, 09:43 AM
I'm really curious how this will play out.

For those of you in Illinios...are the surrounding counties as pro-rights as Pike County, do you think?
Maybe dividing Illinois into two states (North Ill. and South Ill.) would be a good thing...

There's a lot of us rural folks getting tired of the city politicians trying to deprive us of our rights.

Charles S
April 27, 2007, 09:46 AM
There's a lot of we rural folks getting tired of the city politicians trying to deprive us of our rights.

I think that is a national consensus. I personally feel that a lot of people in the South and Midwest feel that their view and beliefs are diametrically opposed to the view of the people on the coast and vise versa.

I personally applaud Pike County for their stance and I look forward to how this will turn out.

ATW525
April 27, 2007, 09:49 AM
Good for them! Hopefully they'll continue to stick to their guns!

Werewolf
April 27, 2007, 10:01 AM
In closing, he offered: "In this room tonight we are not conservatives; we are not liberals. In this room tonight we are not Democrats; we are not Republicans. In this room tonight we are Americans."
The very fact that those stirring words came out of Illinois bodes well for the future of the USA. Maybe there's light at the end of the tunnel after all.

Rev. DeadCorpse
April 27, 2007, 10:02 AM
Sent them an email expressing my delight and my support.

Good folk doing the right thing...

Outlaw Man
April 27, 2007, 10:07 AM
Awesome!! I hope this spreads!

walking arsenal
April 27, 2007, 10:21 AM
I bet the guy clanks when he walks.

Kingcreek
April 27, 2007, 10:38 AM
ownenwould this happen to be the county that contains Springfield, Rock River, Aramlite, DPMS, Les Baer, etc?
No.
That would be Rock Island and Henry Counties.
I have contacted county board members of Henry and asked them to consider following Pike's lead. I will contact RI also and suggest others do the same. please.
notice my location?

bowfin
April 27, 2007, 10:50 AM
Actually, if you subtract Chicago, Rockford, and East St. Louis, the rest of Illinois is great. (Speaking as a former Rockford resident). Illinois gives us Springfield Armory, Rock River Arms and Winchester Ammunition.

Owen
April 27, 2007, 10:55 AM
so it sounds like those other two counties are probably low-hanging fruit as far as getting them to make a similar proclaimation.

Heh

This could be fun.

As far as a state splitting, that is specifically disallowed by the Constitution. West Virginia is an anomaly caused by the Civil War.

Gifted
April 27, 2007, 01:28 PM
As far as a state splitting, that is specifically disallowed by the Constitution. West Virginia is an anomaly caused by the Civil War.Not last I knew. There's a specific procedure for changes like this, but I would be interested in which article prohibits this.

Last I knew, Congress had to approve, and the state legislature. If you're doing something like giving East St Louis to MO(or St Louis to Ill), you need to pass the bill in both states.

This would have interesting affects on politics. If Ill and a few other such divided states did split, we'd get more Senators. Thing is, those new Senators would be elected by conservative majorities, and so the balance in the Senate would swing in our favor. This would also affect presidential elections, since we'd have more conservative electoral votes rather than an urban area controlling the entire state.

Owen
April 27, 2007, 01:58 PM
Gah, you are going to make me go read it. I'm pretty sure there is a clause which states that new states can not be formed out of established states.

Article 4 Section 3 ...No new state may be erected within the jurisdiction of any other State...

SamV
April 27, 2007, 02:24 PM
So how do we contact them to show our support? I think this bold stance needs to be saluted.

vis--vis
April 27, 2007, 02:44 PM
I need a link to the original article, please. Good stuff!

island
April 27, 2007, 03:20 PM
turning out the liberal ruling party and electing a conservative government that has systematically dismantled the registry.

uhh... not quite. We indeed elected the Conservative government, but their "promise" to dismantle the gun registry hasn't quite worked out that way....

ilbob
April 27, 2007, 03:25 PM
Actually, if you subtract Chicago, Rockford, and East St. Louis, the rest of Illinois is great. (Speaking as a former Rockford resident). Illinois gives us Springfield Armory, Rock River Arms and Winchester Ammunition.

Even Rockford isn't all that bad. Its borderline sometimes, but the citizens did take away home rule from the politicians.

Illinois could be a decent state if Chicago just slid into the lake.

Hawk
April 27, 2007, 03:35 PM
One of those rare Snopes "True" legends:

http://www.snopes.com/history/american/texas.asp

ZeSpectre
April 27, 2007, 03:35 PM
So now we have to figure out who's going to be the test case for NY

only1asterisk
April 27, 2007, 03:43 PM
Owen,

The whole thing reads:

New states may be admitted by the Congress into this union; but no new states shall be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other state; nor any state be formed by the junction of two or more states, or parts of states, without the consent of the legislatures of the states concerned as well as of the Congress.

David

Gifted
April 27, 2007, 03:45 PM
I went and looked it up too. You missed a part.
Article IV, Section 3. New states may be admitted by the Congress into this union; but no new states shall be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other state; nor any state be formed by the junction of two or more states, or parts of states, without the consent of the legislatures of the states concerned as well as of the Congress.You can do it, you just have to get permission. They don't say exactly what "consent" equates to, as far as how many votes or anything. So, you get the permission of Congress, and of the Ill legislature, and you're good to go. You just have to spin it just right, to keep them from seeing the fact that you're killing thier majority in Congress, and making it harder to get it back.

only1asterisk
April 27, 2007, 03:47 PM
Gifted,

Too slow! :neener:

David

geekWithA.45
April 27, 2007, 04:17 PM
Huzzah for the Americans in Illinois!

Incidentally, as to the breakaway state clause, I've always thought that structurally, they were more useful for chucking an area out of your state than in founding your own.

Hmmm....I wonder...you know, states like PA and Illinois are structurally well set up to eject their cities....

klcmschlesinger
April 27, 2007, 04:19 PM
Finally, a group in Illinois that is standing tall. I live in St. Clair county in Illinois and what I wouldn't give to see something like this happen in my county. I will be writing letters starting today!!!

bclark1
April 27, 2007, 04:22 PM
man, if cook county would just fall into the lake, we'd have a fabulous state. it'd be so doable with blago living up there, effectively giving the finger to everyone south of 80. i don't think rockford or ESL would wreck things (at least not any more than, say, kankakee) if we could just break the corrupt grip of chicago on the folks with some sense.

racerrck
April 27, 2007, 04:24 PM
I am from Roodhouse, Greene county IL , Pike county borders us on the west via the Illinios river We have traditionally voted against the liberal chicago political machine but We do not have the votes to combat their BS We once had a politician from down state who proposed secession from chicago and renaming anything outside of chicago metro area Lower Forgotonia Our schools are underfunded our roads are crap and our economy is in the toilet but at least for now we enjoy some of the best hunting around Ask anyone who has hunted our area ie..Pike Greene Scott and Calhoun counties By the way Pike county is also the home of PASA park a major shooting sports compound and past and present host of USPSA limited and unlimited national tournaments, The Masters, And this very weekend the Single Stack nationals promising 200 nationally known and unknown shooters of non high capacity 1911's. Sorry I tend to ramble any way we are behind you Pike county keep up the good fight

hnk45acp
April 27, 2007, 04:25 PM
Now all we have to do is get a few counties in NY to do the same. Throw off the yoke of Bloomberg et al.

Len S
April 27, 2007, 04:44 PM
I would like Chicago to become its own state. They can take all of crook county though I do believe some of the cook towns would jump ship. There should be some way to keep large cities from causing trouble for the rest of the state. New York, Philly, Chicago, LA. I dont begin to claim I have any idea how, but to have given that much control and money to one city in a whole state is wrong. Is there anyway to see how much of a drain a city is. Tax dollars in versus tax dollars out. In othr words do the cities contribute more to the state treasury than they demand. Again I do not know where to btgin to look. You have sales tax, income, fuel ect. If anyone knows it would be more ammo tolessen their choke hold.


Len

romma
April 27, 2007, 04:49 PM
Go Pikers!

jklinstein
April 27, 2007, 04:57 PM
Just a couple of points....

First, I wish they whould have included a reference to the Illinois constitution:

Article 1, SECTION 22. RIGHT TO ARMS
Subject only to the police power, the right of the
individual citizen to keep and bear arms shall not be
infringed.

Second, while I appreciate the sentiment, it won't stop State Troopers from enforcing the laws in question.

Neo-Luddite
April 27, 2007, 10:34 PM
Read the tag line--Carroll County has an A-graded NRA DEMOCRAT working by our leave in Springfield. And G-d bless and keep that happy chappy Mike Boland! He will not fail our trust in 1000 years!

Free Illinois lives in all corners of the state!

iamkris
April 27, 2007, 11:47 PM
Maybe dividing Illinois into two states (North Ill. and South Ill.) would be a good thing...
Nah...actually, if you just carve off Chicago, the rest of the state is pretty sensible.

Gifted
April 28, 2007, 03:17 AM
Any division would be along those lines--as close to the city limits as is practical.

The Senate supposedly counters the House in terms of influence. While Reps are chosen by population, giving denser areas more representation, the Senate goes the other way, and they balance out. Since the seventeenth amendment, this hasn't been working like it should. I'm curious about how dividing the state, and therefore adding two more senators that will most likely be conservative, would affect national politics.

Since Chicago seems to control the politics, you'd have to find some way to spin it to make it look like it's a good thing for them. Any ideas? We could get several states doing this at the same time, and they wouldn't realize what happened until after the fallout in the next election.

Jeff White
April 28, 2007, 04:31 AM
Since Chicago seems to control the politics, you'd have to find some way to spin it to make it look like it's a good thing for them. Any ideas?

How about they don't even have to make show of sharing any federal money with those of us down here.

I don't mean this as wishing harm on any Chicagoland THR member or any other innocent person, but every morning when the clock radio plays the news when I wake up that it doesn't say that al-queda nuked Chicago or that Daley upchucked and choked to death on his own vomit in his sleep, I know the day won't be as good as it could be.

Jeff

Autolycus
April 28, 2007, 05:07 AM
If Chicago becomes its own state along with Philadelphia, St. Louis, New York, Miami, and other major cities then the US Senate will gain a lot of senators. 2 for each "state." And if we go by usual trends they will be democrats and anti-gun.

And imagine how it may affect the House of Represenatives. More anti gun senators?

I do support this resolution very much and would love to see it passed but I dont think rural Illinois will secede from Chicago.

Aguila Blanca
April 28, 2007, 10:05 AM
Gah, you are going to make me go read it. I'm pretty sure there is a clause which states that new states can not be formed out of established states.

Article 4 Section 3 ...No new state may be erected within the jurisdiction of any other State...
You only quoted a small part of the Section, and by doing so you reversed the meaning. The entire Section reads as follows:
Section 3
New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new States
shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State
be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the
Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and
Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United
States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice
any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.
First, new states may be formed within existing states, but it requires state and Congressional approval. Second, handing a chunk of one state (such as East St. Louis, IL, off to another state (such as MO) does not create a new state, it merely transfers part of one existing state to another existing state. I submit that there might be some legitimate debate as to whether or not such an action is addressed by this particular section of the Constitution.

Some info on the legal hurdles might be found by researching the move of one town in Vermont to secede from VT and make themselves a part of New Hampshire ... even though theiy are not contiguous to NH. I'm sure they have done a lot of research, because a couple/few years ago they were very serious about pursuing that course of action.

FieroCDSP
April 28, 2007, 10:39 AM
I dont begin to claim I have any idea how, but to have given that much control and money to one city in a whole state is wrong. Is there anyway to see how much of a drain a city is.

The problem is that the big cities usually have their own congressional districts, maybe even two. These districts swing the vote in congress easily.

Meathook
April 28, 2007, 11:24 AM
Now all we have to do is get a few counties in NY to do the same. Throw off the yoke of Bloomberg et al.

Already forwarded a copy to my local county rep (also the Chairman of the Board of Legislators) and another pro 2A rep in the county encouraging them to do the same.

Doubt much will come of it but I am always encouraged when the people express themselves in support of the Bill of Rights.

shooter503
April 28, 2007, 11:40 AM
How about building a big fence around the city limits?

You know - to stop those evil guns sneaking into town after dark.
;) ;) ;)

george29
April 28, 2007, 11:53 AM
Spent a weekend with a lady once from Southern IL who was proud of the fact that they were close enough to the Mason-Dixon Line to be considered Southerners and that they had nothing in common with Yankee Illinois. One state, two mentalities.

ilbob
April 28, 2007, 12:55 PM
How about they don't even have to make show of sharing any federal money with those of us down here.

I don't mean this as wishing harm on any Chicagoland THR member or any other innocent person, but every morning when the clock radio plays the news when I wake up that it doesn't say that al-queda nuked Chicago or that Daley upchucked and choked to death on his own vomit in his sleep, I know the day won't be as good as it could be.

Jeff

Tell us what you really think. Don't hold back. :)

Personally, I would settle for all the Chicago politicians (including the current governor) being at City hall when it collapses due to defective construction from some contractor who bought off an inspector. No nuke required.

ilbob
April 28, 2007, 01:07 PM
Is there anyway to see how much of a drain a city is. Tax dollars in versus tax dollars out. In othr words do the cities contribute more to the state treasury than they demand. Again I do not know where to btgin to look. You have sales tax, income, fuel ect. If anyone knows it would be more ammo tolessen their choke hold.

My brother (Dr. Carl the economist) lives and works in Chicago. We have had this discussion more than once. The answer seems to be that you have to decide just what you count in the totals.

Chicago sucks a lot of money in but it has a lot of the population. It also generates a fair amount of revenue.

My brother claims it is skewed in favor of downstate if you count the UI and ISU in the picture, which are both downstate. I will ask him if he can give me some concrete figures.

dtown240
April 28, 2007, 02:22 PM
I'm still trying to figure out why this headline hasn't been reported in ANY of the larger news venues. CNN, the Chicago Tribune, and even the Associated Press are all absent of the story with "Pike County" as the search string.

It disappoints me that this isn't being more widely publicized and indicates where their priorities aren't.

ChrisMG
April 28, 2007, 02:36 PM
Sounds like you IL people are struggling with the same issue Wisconsin people are, the big city controls the state (Although for us it's both Madison and Milwaukee). They keep all the tax money down south and figure they know what's best for the state north of Madison. Since I'm practically in the U.P I know they are having the same issues, all the tax money and political decisions are done in lower Michigan. There was talk about a state called Superior that would take the U.P and the northern part of WI for a separate state. It's just too bad we couldn't get it to happen! It would without a doubt, be the most gun friendly state in the union (we love our firearms and rights up north eh?).

I hope Pike County sticks to its guns (pun intended) and other counties across the nation follow suit.

Werewolf
April 28, 2007, 03:06 PM
I'm still trying to figure out why this headline hasn't been reported in ANY of the larger news venues. CNN, the Chicago Tribune, and even the Associated Press are all absent of the story with "Pike County" as the search string.Dominoe effect...

The bleedin' heart liberal left wing scum controling the media aren't about to report that honest freedom loving Americans are trying to take their freedoms back from a corrupt government. Imagine if more Americans were to do the same. The elite news media might become the irrelevant news media.

fedlaw
April 28, 2007, 03:09 PM
Lest anyone forget, Chicago is still Al Capone's town. Much of the 'old' money and political connections can be traced back to that so-called bygone era.
The problem isn't so much Daley and his posse, it's the folks who put up with their s**t.

As for Howdy Doody, I look at him as a symptom rather than a cause of the BS in Illinois. After all, it would be silly to blame butt bleeding for causing rectal cancer.

MattC
April 28, 2007, 04:52 PM
I have written a letter of thanks to the citizens of Pike County. I would love it if we could all send them a note telling them how much we appreciate their resolution. Enough letters like that, and it will make the news again. More press on it, and a mass positive showing of support for it, will help push other local governments to pass similar measures that they may already be considering.

Here's the address for the county courthouse (the best mailing address I could find):
++++++++++++
ATTN: Pike County Board
Pike County Courthouse
100 E. Washington Street
Pittsfield, IL 62363
++++++++++++

My letter:
++++++++++++
Dear citizens of Pike County, Illinois:

Thank you! Your resolution against enforcing state laws that violate the right to keep and bear arms is an inspiring move. I hope that your example will lead other counties, across the nation, with citizens who have been rankled by the ever-encroaching gun laws, to enact their own resolutions against the violation of individual rights.

I wish you the best of luck with the ensuing political struggle. I will be cheering for you and encouraging my local officials to learn appropriate representation as demonstrated by your county board members. As Mr. Mountain said, “As an individual, it doesn’t mean much.” But fires start small, and with effort we may turn lanterns into entire states ablaze with the light of liberty.

Sincerely,
++++++++++++

Please also write a letter of thanks to the Pike County Board, and pass this around on other forums to increase awareness!

Note: Postage goes up to 41 cents on May 14th

Gifted
April 28, 2007, 05:28 PM
If Chicago becomes its own state along with Philadelphia, St. Louis, New York, Miami, and other major cities then the US Senate will gain a lot of senators. 2 for each "state." And if we go by usual trends they will be democrats and anti-gun. I was looking at it slightly differently. Chris pointed it out:
the big city controls the state (Although for us it's both Madison and Milwaukee).Because of this, I was going to guess that at least one of your Senators is probably demo. When you split the state, you get four Senators where two once were. The votes in Chicagoland probably won't change much, but down south(or whatever direction you're looking in your state), the vote would probably be solid conservative.

They wouldn't gain anything, we will. If you do have two conservative Senators, then the situation would become neutral, since the two demos and the two cons would cancel each other out. Reps are selected by population. You might have to redraw a few districts to match the new state borders, but due to the system used there, I doubt the balance in the house would change much.

Combining sections of two states to make a third would have a different equation. I'll have to think a bit before I get into that.

Owen
April 28, 2007, 09:22 PM
Aguila Blanca, I read that last clause as belonging to the clause immediately preceeding it. IOW, two states can merge if the state legislature and the US Congress agrees, a state can lose real estate to another, existing state, but a new state can't be carved out of an old state.

I'm going to have to read it a few more times.

Heck, if it would work, I would think states would race to fracture to give each region more influence.

Gifted
April 28, 2007, 09:59 PM
Heck, if it would work, I would think states would race to fracture to give each region more influence.Not so much, especially when they realize that it gives us more than they'd like. Right now, several states are controlled by large urban areas. By dividing, those areas lose some influence, especially in the Senate. The Left Doesn't want the rural areas to have more influence, and by splitting off the urban areas, that's what we're doing.

gunsmith
May 1, 2007, 04:17 PM
A ban, like the one that was proposed by SF got lots of press:fire:

This is a big news story being totally ignored.

MrPeter
May 1, 2007, 04:25 PM
The fact that this can happen in Illinios..
brings a tear to my eye. I'm so joyful!

Crunker1337
May 1, 2007, 05:31 PM
I hope they don't get jacked up by the BATFE like what happened to those poor souls in Waco, TX.

What's a good way to show support?

ArfinGreebly
May 1, 2007, 06:23 PM
Please also see this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=273987) for more information.

Also check out the first two segments of the GunTalk show from this past Sunday, where Tom interviews the actual players in this, from both Pike and Brown counties.

Good stuff.

Rocketman56
May 1, 2007, 07:23 PM
Did anyone come up with the name of the individual who was responsible for the quote:
"In this room tonight we are not conservatives; we are not liberals. In this room tonight we are not Democrats; we are not Republicans. In this room tonight we are Americans."

I'll have to listen..

THANKS!
Steve

SaxonPig
May 2, 2007, 12:08 AM
This is how revolutions get started...

hotpig
May 2, 2007, 12:13 AM
It has been a well kept secret. I live just minutes away from Pike County and my Daughter works in Brown County. If it was not for this post I would not have know anything about this.

chemist308
May 2, 2007, 03:09 AM
Awesome post that started this thread. Thankyou, I'm feeling a LOT better having read that. :)

Oh and, Hmmm....I wonder...you know, states like PA and Illinois are structurally well set up to eject their cities....
Philly frustrates me as much as Chicago probably frustrates you. But we need to figure out how take those cities back. It seems the anti-gun crowds are camping there.

Sylvan-Forge
May 2, 2007, 03:26 AM
As a little experiment, I forwarded this on thursday to: ABC, CBS, CNN, FOX, MSNBC, NBC and PBS.

I have a feeling none of them will pick it up ..

Should probably try AP and Knight-Ridder..

freakazoid
May 2, 2007, 04:38 AM
This makes me so happy, :). If a county is willing to ignore the state law I wonder if a county could take it even further and ignore the federal laws. Hmmm... :D

hotpig
May 2, 2007, 11:30 AM
I think it will go like this.

A local or County Deputy will let you off so long as you are not doing something stupid.

ISP and the raccoon cops(Conservation Police) will enforce state law.

The States Attorney is in the hot spot. He is elected by the people of the county. But he has sworn to uphold all laws. He will have a special prosecutor from the state to handle fire arms related trials.

The plus side is juries in the Pike County area seem to like to acquit people that the state tries to prosecute.

Sistema1927
May 2, 2007, 11:30 AM
I heard this past week's Guntalk podcast, and cheered at the news. May their tribe increase.

Thorspapa
May 2, 2007, 12:14 PM
First of all, I'm new to The Highroad. Let me introduce myself: I'm a 53 year old immigrant who feels very lucky to have had the privilege to be able to come and live in the USA. I will always remember that my father's first action on becoming a citizen, and having some extra money that did not need to go towards everyday necessities for his family was to buy a pistol at a local gun shop.

He didn't fire that pistol for several years that I remember. He just wanted to know he had it and it was his right to do so, as that made him feel like a free man.

I was prompted to join to respond to this thread by another member's action of forwarding the link to me.

Here're my thoughts for better or worse:

The happenings in Pike County are interesting and uplifting, though cynic that I am, I fear it will not get any press or mention by the mainstream. Worse yet (cynic again) sooner or later heat will be applied in subtle and not-so-subtle ways to force them to comply with state law.

The only thing that actually bothers me about that whole thing is that it was prompted by hunting and hunting revenues.

I can actually see a time in the future when hunting will be much less popular and more "underground". The reason is that land gets locked up by states and federal government to be used as "Wildlife Preserves" all the time (like the land right behind our house did 4 years ago). This is a by-product of PETA, Sierra Club, and other "Green" activists under the guise of "Saving the Environment and our Heritage for Future Generations". I know that's not the real reason, you know that's not the real reason, but like the "It's for the Children" mantra, it gets used all the time and it works.

Then add a growing population composed of immigrant peoples that have no hunting background, nor any wish to assimilate and become familiar with this or other American customs and lifestyles.

So the percentage (if not the number) of the population seeing hunting as a reason to have arms will steadily decrease.

What we really would benefit from seeing is the same thing based "on the right of a Free Man to have arms, to balance the growing threat of an out-of-control, intrusive, non-responsive-to-individual-freedom Government" (not necessarily ours, no political hidden motives here)

Add in the global (now in your neighborhood) threat from a religious group that wants to take over the world, along with the rising tide of Communism that everyone seems to be hell-bent on ignoring.

Yet people still focus on hunting and revenue derived from it as the most pressing reason to come up with this type of resolution. And it seems that that's the basic unifying force that has brought all those folks together to agree on a firearm resolution.

I'm disappointed. I guess I will take any force that will unify gun owners over none at all, but it's still troubling that it's not based on more sound and pressing reasons.

I'm sorry my first post is gloomy, but it's not meant to be divisive or to downplay a good action. It's merely an observation on these actions, and the reasons (as I see them) behind them.

Thanks for allowing me to post my thoughts.

hotpig
May 2, 2007, 12:28 PM
Thorspapa

Welcome to the board. You are right on the head with this. I live in this area. It is all about the shotgun. If the proposed bill here in Illinois would not have restrictions on shotguns this would not have happened.

Most people in this area do not see a need in concealed carry or semi automatic rifles other than .22 for squirrel hunting or varmint control. They would not oppose the weapons bans if the legislators would leave their shotguns out of it.

The message could not be anymore clearer to the State. Leave the shotguns other than street sweepers out of the ban and it will pass with almost no resistance.

chemist308
May 2, 2007, 01:13 PM
As a little experiment, I forwarded this on thursday to: ABC, CBS, CNN, FOX, MSNBC, NBC and PBS.
Everyone needs to be doing this. The more they hear us cry out the better. And if they won't do it within one week, then yes we need a mass mailing to the AP.

ipscshooter
May 2, 2007, 02:11 PM
As an EX Illinois resident, Hooray for them. I have shot at PASA Park (Pike Adams Sportsman's Alliance) many times.

Way to show those big city politicians, enough is enough.

oldgold
May 2, 2007, 06:35 PM
Welcome aboard Torspapa. About time you signed up. I know you've been lurking here for sometime since I know you personally. Hope you keep on posting. You have a way of keeping discussions on track. Like your responce to this thread.

Hopefully we can use this to unite the hunters and sport shooters as well as wake up the poor goverment in Chicago and other places. I would urge all shooters as well as hunters in Illinois to be heard. Write anyone and everyone concerned, make your voices heard.

Texshooter
May 2, 2007, 08:59 PM
God Bless the Pikers.

There is just something about courage, ain't there.

On another note, not meaning to hijack, but if I buy another, let us say, XD, am I contributing tax money to the states that want to deny me the right to own the product I just puchased?

BrianB
May 2, 2007, 09:06 PM
Come on, Pike Cty! Bring some more of that whoop___! That's awesome.

Sylvan-Forge
May 4, 2007, 04:33 PM
Sent this to Drudge Report and AP.
Evidently, Knight-Ridder has been bought by the McClatchy company,
so I sent it to their Washington Bureau.

NukemJim
May 4, 2007, 06:21 PM
thorspapa, Most excellent first post.

I'm sorry my first post is gloomy

Respectfully disagree with you there, your post is accurate and thought provoking. Glad you are on board.

Best wishes

NukemJim

Nanook
May 4, 2007, 09:32 PM
Perhaps the large cities could be districts, like DC. Then any senators would be "honorary" if you'll excuse the expression.

It's hard to picture Chicago politicians and the word honor in the same sentence.

Chicago, DC. NYC, DC. LA, DC. It has a ring to it. And it works on two levels, since quite a few people refer to DC as the District of Criminals.

hotpig
June 20, 2007, 10:52 PM
Greene County IL passed the resolution at the County Board meeting the other night.:)

scout26
June 21, 2007, 12:06 AM
That makes 8 counties that have told Gov. Blago and the rest of the Chicago-knows-what's-best-for-Illinois politicians to go pound sand. Maybe if we can get a large majority of the remaining 93 counties to pass it say 92 counties, this might just be the dead-fish smack across that wakes them up........Nahhhhh.

kermit315
June 21, 2007, 12:37 AM
woo hoo, now lets try to get Fulton, Knox, Warren, Mercer, Tazwell and Peoria counties in on this and try to get my home state fixed right

jselvy
June 21, 2007, 09:05 AM
This strikes me as quite similar to South Carolina's infamous "Gag Order" that prevented mercantilist (the navigation acts, etc.) federal laws from being enforced within the state. It was in fact one of the prime movers towards the war between the states.
I hope that Illinois does not react the same way that the federal government did.
I am glad to see the People taking their rights back and I hope they can make it stick as it would be a precedent that could be applied in most places outside of D.C. This would also work scaled up to the state level, imagine if Wyoming (for instance) declared similarly that all federal firearms laws post second amendment were unconstitutional and therefore invalid and of no force. Wouldn't that be just a lovely Idea.

Jefferson

Titan6
June 21, 2007, 09:17 AM
I am curious. Has the state prosecuter tried to charge anyone in the counties that are currently in the state of rebellion? That was predicted...

Dravur
June 21, 2007, 09:29 AM
Maybe dividing Illinois into two states (North Ill. and South Ill.) would be a good thing...

Or, even better. Divide it into South illinois and The Soviet Socialist replik of Illinois and then give that hunk to Cuba.

Matt King
June 21, 2007, 09:46 AM
Everyone needs to be doing this. The more they hear us cry out the better. And if they won't do it within one week, then yes we need a mass mailing to the AP.

Forward Away! Perhaps we could use the Activism Sub forum to Coordinate the mailings?

Bill O’reilly:
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Glenn Beck
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__________________

hotpig
June 21, 2007, 09:45 PM
Thanks to Kurt AKA 45superman for the update.

http://armedandsafe.blogspot.com/2007/06/illinois-freedom-train-still-gathering.html

def4pos8
June 21, 2007, 09:59 PM
I became a refugee from St. Claire County (IL) in '95. Good show by the folks in Pike County! The Peoples' Republic of Chicago needs to be told where to go!!

hotpig
December 22, 2007, 01:54 AM
There has been a quiet but building revolution in Illinois. So far the State is not even acknowledging what is happening.

62 of the states 102 counties have passed resolutions declaring anti 2nd amendment laws as unconstitutional and beyond lawful legislative Authority.

This link shows the state with the "rebel" counties in green. A copy of one of the resolutions is below.

http://www.pro2aresolution.com/id12.html



Resolution

WHEREAS, the Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms is guaranteed as an Individual Right under the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and under the Constitution of the State of Illinois, and;

WHEREAS, the Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms for defense of Life, Liberty, and Property is regarded as an Inalienable Right by the People of _______________ County, Illinois, and:

WHEREAS, the People of _________________ County, Illinois, derive economic benefit from all safe forms of firearms recreation, hunting, and shooting conducted within __________ County using all types of firearms allowable under the United States Constitution and the Constitution of the State of Illinois, and;

WHEREAS, ____________ County Board, being elected to represent the People of _____________County and being duly sworn by their Oath of Office to uphold the United States Constitution and the Constitution of the State of Illinois, and;

WHEREAS, the Illinois House of Representatives and the Illinois Senate, being elected by the People of the State of Illinois and being duly sworn by their Oath of Office to uphold the United States Constitution and the Constitution of the State of Illinois, and;

WHEREAS, proposed legislation under consideration by the Illinois State Legislature would infringe the Right to Keep and Bear Arms and would ban the possession and use of firearms now employed by individual citizens of _______________ County, Illinois, for defense of Life, Liberty and Property and would ban the possession and use of firearms now employed for safe forms of firearms recreation, hunting and shooting conducted within ____________ County, Illinois;

NOW, THEREFORE, IT BE AND IS HEREBY RESOLVED that the People of _____________ County, Illinois, do hereby oppose the enactment of any legislation that would infringe upon the Right of the People to keep and bear arms and consider such laws to be unconstitutional and beyond lawful Legislative Authority!


__________________________
Chairman

Attest:


____________________________
County Clerk

Ultrachimp
December 22, 2007, 02:09 AM
man, those muzzle-loaders are dangerous! :D

Stupid city politicians...good for that country for standing up for their rights!

And hotpig that map made me lol. THose state politicians are getting their rear ends handed to 'em on a plate!

kermit315
December 22, 2007, 02:10 AM
Rock Island county doesnt surprise me that much, with all the crime in the QCA.

Glad to see Warren and Fulton passed, I am Fulton county at heart, but parents live in Warren, so I am in both alot when I am home.

need to turn the whole state green, kick the gubment out of office and get CCW and kill FOID. Oh, and slice chicago off of the state like a tumor.

bsf
December 22, 2007, 03:04 AM
.....need to turn the whole state green, kick the gubment out of office and get CCW and kill FOID. Oh, and slice chicago off of the state like a tumor.
Do not even think for a second that Illinois will be giving Chicago to Michigan. It is bad enough we already have Detroit.

ShowMeState1977
December 22, 2007, 03:50 AM
So do we have reciprocity with our CCW permits in green counties? :neener:

Robert Hairless
December 22, 2007, 07:06 AM
hotpig:

There has been a quiet but building revolution in Illinois. So far the State is not even acknowledging what is happening.

62 of the states 102 counties have passed resolutions declaring anti 2nd amendment laws as unconstitutional and beyond lawful legislative Authority.

Fascinating. I wouldn't have believed it. Please continue to post updates?

Is there any chance that the counties will stick by it or do you think that they might fold? If they don't fold, what is the likely effect? Where is it likely to go, what is it likely to do?

kludge
December 22, 2007, 08:25 AM
This link shows the state with the "rebel" counties in green. A copy of one of the resolutions is below.

http://www.pro2aresolution.com/id12.html


Way to go Illinois!!!!

If only each of those counties had a voice in the state senate... instead it gets carved up into districts.

Rustynuts
December 22, 2007, 09:01 AM
Pike County now needs to head for the State border and flip off Wisconsin!

AndyC
December 22, 2007, 10:09 AM
Wow, what a lot of lovely green on that map - thanks for the update :D

doc2rn
December 22, 2007, 10:34 AM
'bout time! Those guys got any empty houses around there? I would move there after I graduate to show my support. Hopefully we will see more people following their lead.

armoredman
December 22, 2007, 10:50 AM
62 of 102 counties told Chigao to get stuffed, and nobody outside of here noticed? I wonder how much money and political capital the Chicago Machine is having to pay out to the Mass Media to snuff THIS story. Wow.
I hope this quiet ground swell eventually gives Chicago what it has needed for a looooong time - a political earthquake.

Officers'Wife
December 22, 2007, 11:43 AM
Sounds to me like in at least one county in America the people elected a county council intent on doing their jobs. I can only hope and pray it's an idea who's time has come and spreads out not only to other counties but to the states as well. Unfortunately I've given up all hope on the Fed.

Selena

cobrian45
December 22, 2007, 11:55 AM
:D

Coming from Texas, it's difficult to understand the oppressed feeling of your inability to exercise your right to defend yourself. I understand Thorspapa's post completely and agree very much so. To give some lift to him, I will counter by saying that all great changes generally begin with something small. It's that last straw, the one that breaks the camel's back that gets people active. True, Pike County is seeming to say that they are taking a stand only because their specific rights involving their specific beliefs are being violated. I would not look on this as the only argument that will be had here. They have invoked 2A argument into the matter. This will (crosses fingers) be the seed that can grow into a full fledged matter that we can all get behind. I'm truly an opponent of the "firearms for hunting" mantra and I hunt A LOT. I just know that wasn't the intent of the 2ndA and it's much broader than that. I will, however, take what I can get as far as people having enough and taking a stand. That makes politicians take nervous notice because it can do what we all hope it will and take root and grow. I'm sending support letters as well as emails. Hopefully, they will feel they are not alone in their plight and they know people are out there paying attention in case someone does try to put pressure on them.

isp2605
December 22, 2007, 08:00 PM
I wonder how much money and political capital the Chicago Machine is having to pay out to the Mass Media to snuff THIS story. Wow.

You can tell you aren't up on IL politics and Chicago media. No one has to pay the mass media anything to snuff anything. The fact is the Chicagoland media and mass media in general just doesn't care what goes on downstate. It's not news to them and as far as they're concerned anything south of I-80 and west of US 47 doesn't matter.
There are a lot of people in that NE part of the state who don't even realize they're part of IL. When I was working cases up there on several occasions I had subjects tell me I couldn't arrest them because I was from IL and when we were making the arrest we were in Chicago. Even when you ask them at booking what state they were born in they'll tell you "Chicago". That's the mentality of too many. Even the educated people often view Chicago as the state and everything else is country that doesn't matter.

outdoorman63
December 22, 2007, 08:17 PM
way to go Pike County

armoredman
December 22, 2007, 08:35 PM
You're right, isp, I left Chi-town after being sent there for 9 months with the Navy, and never went back. The Windy City doesn't sit right with me.

isp2605
December 22, 2007, 10:12 PM
You're right, isp, I left Chi-town after being sent there for 9 months with the Navy, and never went back. The Windy City doesn't sit right with me.
I don't care for Chicago either. Worked a number of cases there and some of those were in places where civilized man wouldn't venture. I never left anything in the city that I ever had to go back for.
But Chicago isn't IL. There's a whole lot of state south of I-80 and west of US 47 and most people would be surprised how "redneck" that part of the state really is. Few know that during the Civil War from central IL to the southern tip was occupied by federal troops from WI and MN because of the strong southern leanings. If a person wants to learn what the real central/southern IL is like then read "Bloody Williamson". It's got all the action of the Godfather movies.

Black Adder LXX
December 22, 2007, 10:14 PM
What a rare and encouraging story. God bless pike county. It would be amazing if Illinois better represented what everything BUT chicago wanted. It's such a cool state...

I wonder how much money and political capital the Chicago Machine is having to pay out to the Mass Media to snuff THIS story. Absolutely nothing! The 'mainstream' media is anti as it gets...

S4Lee
December 22, 2007, 10:31 PM
This is pretty cool. Makes me want to write a letter to the county here in NJ, since my district reps are pretty set in thier anti ways.

On a side note, as for making sure people are aware of this, Digg.com is a pretty good place to start (http://www.digg.com/about). Think of it as almost a YouTube.com for web pages and links - the more a link is submitted or voted on, the closer to the main page it gets. It's still frequented more by the tech-savy crowd, but I've been seeing alot of "digg this" links on the mainstream media pages (the links make it easier to submit a story / link to Digg.com).

Rustynuts
December 23, 2007, 08:44 AM
Chicago (and Illinois) needs to worry less about LEGAL guns and more about ILLEGAL political corruption.

CrawdaddyJim
December 23, 2007, 10:45 AM
At one time Chicago had a horrendous flooding problem. They built a river in a pipe or something like that to drain it. Wonder if it could be plugged up and just flood out Cook county? :D

lee n. field
December 23, 2007, 01:40 PM
They built a river in a pipe or something like that to drain it. Wonder if it could be plugged up and just flood out Cook county?

That would drive the rats out in to more civilized parts of the state.

I didn't know the green part of the map had grown that much. I note with interest that my old stomping grounds, Champaign County, is RED. Well, likely I'll never be back there.

cherryriver
December 23, 2007, 02:30 PM
For reference:
The City of Chicago constitutes 43% of the population of the State of Illinois. Cook County, one of 102, operated by the same person leading the same machine, is something like 56%.
They hardly even need to steal votes.
The violent crime rate within the city is astronomical, close to the highest in the country. The Daley Administration uses the gun issue to deflect attention from the failings of his operation.
The other 101 counties can pretty much just bang their heads against the wall, I'm sad to say.

Im283
December 23, 2007, 02:52 PM
It's great that this is happening and all but what does it really mean?

Has there been any action at the state level?

Can you carry a loaded firearm for personal protection? Will the State police not arrest you if you are caught transporting a firearm in your car loaded?

In the real world what differences has this made? I must be missing something.

krahling
December 23, 2007, 03:02 PM
If you're doing something like giving East St Louis to MO

That would be an act of war.

ilcylic
December 23, 2007, 03:46 PM
You guys are thinking too small. Give 'em to Canada. (Sorry, Canadians.)

Then put up a border crossing.

1911Tuner
December 23, 2007, 04:41 PM
Hoorah for Pike County!

But, they're still pandering to the PC hunting issue. The 2nd Amendment doesn't state that we have the right to keep and bear sporting goods.

It ain't about shootin' ducks and deer!

cherryriver
December 23, 2007, 05:08 PM
To riff off of im283's facetious comment, unfortunately, there has been a difference- going the wrong way. Elsewhere in THR, you'll find the thread describing the new Cook County amendment to its weapons ordinance. The mechanism is similar to the Chicago handgun ban, in that there's registration required, but not allowed. But this one goes far further- by most any reading, it would effectively ban the possession of nearly all guns, and ammunition, too.
Quite a contrast, eh?
It was sent to the County Board's legislative committee in order for it to sit until a quiet moment when it can be pulled out and voted on stealthily. Yes, that's supposed to be illegal, but the Board has given itself authority via some rule or another to ignore such things. At least, it thinks it has.
As excellent as Pike County's resolution is, it's still swimming into a firehose.

scout26
December 23, 2007, 09:37 PM
The Resolution

Resolution

WHEREAS, the Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms is guaranteed as an Individual Right under the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution and under the Constitution of the State of Illinois, and;

WHEREAS, the Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms for defense of Life, Liberty, and Property is regarded as an Inalienable Right by the People of _______________ County, Illinois, and:

WHEREAS, the People of _________________ County, Illinois, derive economic benefit from all safe forms of firearms recreation, hunting, and shooting conducted within __________ County using all types of firearms allowable under the United States Constitution and the Constitution of the State of Illinois, and;

WHEREAS, ____________ County Board, being elected to represent the People of _____________County and being duly sworn by their Oath of Office to uphold the United States Constitution and the Constitution of the State of Illinois, and;

WHEREAS, the Illinois House of Representatives and the Illinois Senate, being elected by the People of the State of Illinois and being duly sworn by their Oath of Office to uphold the United States Constitution and the Constitution of the State of Illinois, and;

WHEREAS, proposed legislation under consideration by the Illinois State Legislature would infringe the Right to Keep and Bear Arms and would ban the possession and use of firearms now employed by individual citizens of _______________ County, Illinois, for defense of Life, Liberty and Property and would ban the possession and use of firearms now employed for safe forms of firearms recreation, hunting and shooting conducted within ____________ County, Illinois;

NOW, THEREFORE, IT BE AND IS HEREBY RESOLVED that the People of _____________ County, Illinois, do hereby oppose the enactment of any legislation that would infringe upon the Right of the People to keep and bear arms and consider such laws to be unconstitutional and beyond lawful Legislative Authority!

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