.30-30 Pointed Bullet Loads in a Lever Action


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GunAdmirer
April 29, 2007, 10:10 PM
Anybody load pointed .308 caliber bullets in .30-30 cartridges used in a lever-gun?

I know. I know. You're only supposed to use blunt nosed bullets in a lever action.

However, it would be safe if you only used the lever-gun as a single shot or only loaded one round in the tubular magazine. I'm very careful and would rarely need more than 2 rounds.

I'm sure somebody out there does it. What are the OAL restrictions or any other loading considerations? Any other recommendations or resources?

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Gustav
April 29, 2007, 10:17 PM
NO!:what:

Although I saw some plastic tip ones that had a nylon point made by Hornady called leverevolution.

What you are thinking could really become a problem its called a chain reaction firing don't do it.:what:

R.W.Dale
April 29, 2007, 10:26 PM
NO!

Although I saw some plastic tip ones that had a nylon point made by Hornady called leverevolution.

What you are thinking could really become a problem its called a chain reaction firing don't do it.

not really, What kind of "chain reaction" could result from one in the chamber and one in the mag. A two shooter so to speak.

Art Eatman
April 29, 2007, 10:43 PM
No problem if the magazine has only one round in it.

This new Hornady "LeverRevolution" ammo has a soft but pointed tip, so the point can't pop the primer from recoil. You can buy the bullets as a separate item, for handloading...

Art

GunAdmirer
April 29, 2007, 10:47 PM
My understanding is that the Hornady Leverolution bullets are not available as seperate components and that they have no plans to release them in the near future.

Gustav
April 29, 2007, 11:33 PM
http://.1stconnect.com/anozira/sitetops/weapons/3030faq.htm
Scroll down to the end and read notes.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/leverevolution.htm

hankpac
April 29, 2007, 11:39 PM
Hornady is starting to PMO, holding their components to loaded ammo, so they can make a big profit, before they ever release them. They'd sell plenty of bullets to reloaders if they would release them.
My son loads spire point 308 cal bullets, both soft tip, and Ballistic tips, He loads on in chamber and one in the mag. He hunts in Alabama, so the shots are not that far off. He got a huge increase in speeds, but I don't know the load data, or speeds.
Loaded in a Contender barrel, like I intend, a spire point bullet should get some real speed. A 180 Gr bullet would be just right for deer up to 200 yds.

joab
April 29, 2007, 11:42 PM
it would be safe if you only used the lever-gun as a single shot or only loaded one round in the tubular magazine.A few years ago one of the gun magazines wrote an article on this subject.
The writer agreed with you and seemed to think the increased performance was worth the trouble

scrat
April 30, 2007, 01:14 AM
ive done it one in the chamber and one in the magazine. after a while just did not seem worth it.

CZ57
April 30, 2007, 07:33 AM
No problem when done as Art Eatman describes. No more than one round in the magazine for follow-up shots. One thing to consider here is that the use of a pointed bullet that has a cannelure and crimping will help prevent bullet jump with a round in the magazine.

Like many of you, the Hornady LeveRevolution bullet looks like one heck of an idea, so add me to the "Hornady really PMO" list. A component manufacturer that somehow feels that one of their proprietary bullets shouldn't be made available to handloaders. No matter. SPEER and Sierra bullets work and it only costs Hornady money in the long run.;)

Another way to skin this cat is with the Remington 150 gr. Core-Lokt made for the .30-30. It is about the most pointed bullet I've found for .30-30 Win.

The Bushmaster
April 30, 2007, 10:01 AM
All Remington core-lokt round nose bullets end up being flat nosed after being loaded in the tubular magazine.

I have done experiments using Sierra SPT Pro-Hunter 150 grain bullets. Because this bullet will end up as a flat nose also if loaded in the magazine. I only hand chamber one in the rifle and back it up with three Speer 170 grain FNSP rounds in the magazine. I don't do this very often because the advantage of a pointed bullet in a rifle ment to be used for less then 100 yards and not more then 150 yards really can't take advantage of the pointed bullet. I have been using a 1949 Winchester Mod 94 for the last 40 years...Remember...Before we start braggin' about those 200 plus yard shots (yes the .30-30 can do them), the .30-30 will drop over 20 inches at 200 yards. That means you are lobing that bullet at whatever you're shooting at...The gain of using a pointed or Hornady round just isn't worth it...

sansone
April 30, 2007, 10:08 AM
I think round nose bullets are OK, but not pointy ones. someone told me once HP's are ok, I need to look at one
edit: my marlin needs short OAL to feed well so I can't load pointy bullets into the mag anyway

Art Eatman
April 30, 2007, 10:51 AM
My mistook on the bullet availability. I thought I'd seen 'em listed in the new Huntington catalog, but, no.

Art

R.W.Dale
April 30, 2007, 12:04 PM
Another thing to put into the equation is that MOST spitzer 30 cal bullets are intended for impact velocities a good deal faster than 30-30 can generate. Meaning you could have failure to expand. I feel the only bullet that will give you a good bang for the buck with spitzer 30-30 would be the 125grn Ballistic tip

Gewehr98
April 30, 2007, 08:43 PM
And discovered that the OAL on a cartridge loaded with spitzer bullets (147gr FMJBT) often exceeds what the cartridge lifter was designed for. It was a lot of fun getting the stuck round out of the action. So loading even one round into the tubular magazine is risky.

I finished the rest of those 20 rounds by feeding them one at a time into the chamber through the top. They shot well, good accuracy, but I already have single-shot rifles designed to do that. ;)

CZ57
April 30, 2007, 09:27 PM
Bushmaster: I can't honestly say I've noticed any detrimental flattening of the Core-Lokt. I've watched a few go from the magazine into the chamber and to be honest, nothing has caught my attention. Not enough to worry about remembering it, anyway. I certainly have not ejected enough of them to make a blanket statement about what they all do, nor watched them all feed, but judging from what they did when they left the barrel, I'm not sure what difference it would make for many of the reasons you pointed out. Even with some slight flattening, the 150 gr. Core-Lokt is still not going to be nearly as blunt as the SPEER Flatnose or the Sierra power Jacket which I use also in the case of the Sierra. To be honest, accuracy is good enough with the Remington or Winchester bulk bullets, that spending any more money is kind of pointless to me. But then again, I don't shoot at 200 yards with a .30-30 because scoping one is about as pointless, IMO. I shoot mine at 50 yards with the sights that came on the rifle, just so we're clear on that and I can usually keep three rounds of the Core-Lokts in a one inch group, most of the time anyway and I'm happy because that works for me. Bullets that start out with a flatter nose won't do any better than Rem. Core-Lokts that all get their noses flattened in the magazine, as you say. I'm not going to tell anyone else that they shouldn't scope their's, or not shoot 200 yard groups for that matter.

One thing I wouldn't assume, is that there is no advantage in using a bullet with a much higher ballistic coeffecient than what's typical of .30-30 bullets, even at 100 yards. I also don't understand how you're getting 20" of drop at 200 yards unless you do occasionally shoot some groups at that distance and your loads are on the slow side. Using the BC for the 150 gr. SPEER FN at 2200 fps, as an example, with a 50 yard zero, predicted drop is 9.3". Zero at 100 and it's 8.1" according to what the SPEER ballistic tables predict.;)

Hazzard
April 30, 2007, 09:49 PM
I have a queston which is hopefully not OT. Does anyone actually have a link or any other info where a spitzer has actually caused a KB in a tubular magazine? I've heard this all of my life but have never seen any evidence that it has actually happened.

Gewehr98
April 30, 2007, 10:08 PM
I run 550gr Spitzers over black powder in my .45-70 Sharps Business Rifle. You want to talk bullet drop to me? Sure, have at it.

In the meantime, "lobbing them in there" is the easy way for a lazy person to admit he doesn't want to set his sights or learn how to estimate range to quarry like our shooting predecessors did. "Maximum Point Blank Range" is all he understands, and I blame gunrags like Outdoor Life and Field & Stream for that and the current magnumitis craze. I have oodles of energy left in my big 550gr spitzers past 400 yards, plenty enough for thumping Bambi. But to hear people these days, if it drops more than a foot at 200 yards, it ain't worth shooting. Care to guess my bullet drop in the big Sharps from 400 to 1000 yards?

I owned a Savage Model 340. That's the discount bolt gun which was chambered in .30-30 Winchester for many years. I loaded the Speer 110gr Spire SP bullet for that rifle, and pushed the Winchester 94s envelope another 50-100 yards, easily. I regret letting my ex-wife have the rifle, in hindsight.

Don't worry about bullet drop. You can adjust the sights or scope reticle for that. Worry about retained energy over distance. If you have enough bullet energy at distance to make a clean, humane kill, then do the mental math and press on. Closer is usually better for stalking and hunting purposes, but sometimes you don't get that "Point Blank Range" opportunity. ;)

Plink
April 30, 2007, 10:17 PM
Gewehr, that's a point I've been trying to make to people for years. They need to get past this obsession with maximum point blank range and learn to really shoot Their guns. If the old timers could do it, we sure can. It's what true marksmanship is about anyway.

CZ57
April 30, 2007, 10:46 PM
Gewehr98: excuse me, did you think I was talking bullet drop to you? I would have addressed you directly if I had been. If you want to argue a point with yourself, I'll read it!:D

There is nothing complicated about any of this. We're talking about a 150 yard round, not Quigley Down Under.:D Set the sights 1" high at 50 yards with a .30-30 and you've got the effective killing range of the round covered. How in the hell did we get on maximum point blank range? I don't even believe the thread starter specified a use for the round he's interested in. The drop at 150 is 3.5" and it seems fairly simple what holdover needs to be. It doesn't take rocket science to figure it out. But we can if you'd like.;)

The use of pointed bullets with a single round loaded in the magazine of a .30-30 has been around as long as I can remember, which covers about thirty five years of shooting. You can't find a bullet that works, find another one that will, or not. It can be done.

Gewehr98
April 30, 2007, 11:04 PM
No need to excuse yourself, unless you posted this tripe:

Remember...Before we start braggin' about those 200 plus yard shots (yes the .30-30 can do them), the .30-30 will drop over 20 inches at 200 yards. That means you are lobing that bullet at whatever you're shooting at...The gain of using a pointed or Hornady round just isn't worth it...

I used the bullet drop in my Sharps as a comparison. Folks are fond of saying the .45-70 is only good as a 100-200 yard "brush" cartridge. Maybe if the shooter themself is only good for that distance, otherwise, hogwash.

The same goes for the venerable .30 WCF when loaded with pointy bullets, although the smaller diameter bullet doesn't carry usable energy as far as the big .45-70. I've enjoyed handloading spitzer bullets and the subsequent boost in ballistic performance in my own .30-30 rifles for about 15 years, thanks to a Savage 340 and Remington 788. The 125gr Nosler Ballistic Tip (Hunting version) is also a good candidate for dropping Bambi at 200 yards. Now if I could just find a Winchester Model 54 chambered thusly in good shape for cheap...

Plink, I hear you, and I'm getting ready to write an article on the lost art over at www.TheRallyPoint.org, and it will probably be a feature on The Carnival of Cordite, too.

CZ57
April 30, 2007, 11:48 PM
What do the kids say? My bad!;)

Rev. DeadCorpse
May 1, 2007, 12:28 PM
Win 94 1963 vintage. Loading a 150gr SP boat-tails in front of 35gr of W748, I can bullseye bowling pins at 100yrds using the original ramp sights. Splits the pins if you hit the bottom portion in the center...

Yeah, I've got witnesses to this.

I load them one at a time as LOA's a tad long for it to feed from the tube mag. Of course, once you've got one loaded, you gotta shoot it to get it out again.

CZ57
May 1, 2007, 01:26 PM
Rev: I don't doubt it at all. I've seen guys that are older hands with this rifle than myself do some fairly impressive shooting.

I would try the Hornady LeveRevolution if it were available.

I don't do this myself, but I will mention it because I know some very competent hunters that do, including professional guides that feel that at low velocity in rifles like that of the .30-30 and others, expecting reliable expansion on deer is wishful thinking in many cases, so they use FMJ bullets. Hardcast bullets still see plenty of use as well. The required skill level does go up a bit.;)

Oohrah
May 3, 2007, 07:11 PM
CZ that point flatning happened when they sit in the magazine.
If they don't detenate the primer a head of them! With the new
Hornaday round that I think is 165 gr. bullet and loaded with un-
releasted powder that couldn't be duplicated, even if you had the
bullet. A real improvement that I would consider spending the
money rather than fool around with lesser results.

CZ57
May 3, 2007, 08:12 PM
Dick: the Remington Core-lokt I mentioned is the one made for .30-30 Win. I have never heard of them causing primer ignition in the magazine. All others being discussed with pointed bullets are for one round in the magazine only. As far as loading the Leverrevolution to Hornady's performance, I don't think any black magic would be required. First off, it probably falls a little short of Hornady's claimed velocity and there are powders that would duplicate anything Hornady's using. I know they talk about specially formulated powders for their Light magnum and Heavy Magnum loads, but when you get down to actual chronographing you find that there isn't quite the level of magic they'd have you believe.;)

BAGTIC
May 19, 2007, 11:38 PM
Loading the spitzers probably will NOT result in increased velocities.

When loaded to the same COL the spitzer will require deep seating thereby reducing effective case capacity. At longer ranges the better BC of the spitzer should make up for the slower muzzle velocity but I never seem to shoot anything far enough away for the BC advantage to take effect.

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