[KMKeller]

Folks,

It appears that I may be transferring to Salt Lake City, Utah for work in the near future. I know that there are a lot of THR folks from Utah and was wondering if you could give me the low down on the best places to look for housing, where the best shooting ranges and gunshops are, etc.

Kirk

[George Hill]

Squatters Pup is rated very high by social drinkers from all over the place. You'll have no problems finding a nice place to drink if you want one.
The whole Mormons control the state thing... no. We dont. If we did Rocky Anderson wouldn't be the Mayor of SLC. So give that noise a rest.

Utah is great for shooting and for any outdoor activity. In SLC, a good gun store? There are a few, but my favorite is Rangemasters down in Springville.

When looking for a place to live, avoid "West Valley" and "Kearns". The "East Side" is nice. I loved the "Sugar House" area. Theatre, places to eat, Barns&Nibbles book store all within a short walk. Great area to live.

In Utah and especially in the SLC area you will find the traffic situation to be horrible. People really don't know how to drive in SLC. "If you don't make eye contact, you have the right of way." I suggest upgrading your car's stereo for better entertainment while stuck in a twice daily traffic jam. Utah has like a 3 million people population or something like that and 2/3 of them live in SLC. Okay... SLC kinda sucks. There is only 1 North-South freeway through Utah and it's jammed up all the time. So life will be easier if you live East or West from your work.

CCWs are issued easily, and if you have your CCW card you can skip the background check when you buy a gun. So that is kinda nice.

There will be people telling you to go to "The Mayan" but don't listen to them. The food there is utterly revolting. Next to the Mayan is a "Joe's Crab Shack" and the food there is great. (They even have sssshhhh... BEER!)

[12 Volt Man]

I live in Davis County, just North 10 minutes of Salt Lake in a town called Bountiful now. I am currently building a house 10 minutes further North in a town called Farmington. Utah is a gun friendly state compared to what I read about a few other states. It is not too much trouble to get your CCW permit here. Quite a few ranges around. My favorite is Wahsatch Shooters Association (http://www.wahsatchshooters.com) They have alot of IDPA matches there on Saturdays. Several different pistol stations. Rifle range out to 100 yards. You can get a year long family membership for only $35.00. Everyone there is layed back all kinds of weapons welcome. I even have seen a woman who owns a Full Auto Uzi shoot there a few times.
Also in Bountiful, up on the hill there is a Lions Club range which you pay $5.00 each time. I shoot there every now and then.
Good places to shoot out in the West Desert. If you just head a little ways west of Tooele. I also like to shoot out west of Lehi in Utah county. Pretty much a 45 minute to an hour drive will take you to many places you can shoot on your own.
As far as gunshops go. The best selection is at Impact Guns in Ogden. I have bought several guns there. They tend to have poor customer service and don't live up to their website advertising. Read about an experience I had with them here. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21441) I was really mad when I made that post and have since bought another gun from them but it gives you an idea anyway. They also have a pretty nice indoor range.
The next best indoor IMHO is at Totally Awesome Guns in West Valley City. They also have a decent selection but tend to be overpriced. Try to avoid dealing with the big Muscle Dude there. He is one of those guys who thinks he knows everything already, but really could use to spend some time here :) . Other gun shops I frequent are Gallensen's in downtown Salt Lake and Patriot Arms on about 7800 south and Redwood Road.
Another thing that will be useful to you is approx every other month there is the Crossroads of the West Gunshow out in Sandy. It goes Saturday and Sunday. I usually pick up some ammo there and go just to walk around and look. Not many deals there anymore. And by the time you pay the entance fee, you don't save much even on ammo.
I like to shoot my AR and AKs as well as my CZ pistols and other pistols. Lately we have been doing a lot of bowling pin shoots. I also like to take the old 10/22 out and help control the rabbit population every now and then. Let us know when you get here. You are welcome to come along on a shooting adventure. :D

[Skunkabilly]

George, et al, how is the Chinese food?

[Correia]

Well groovy. :D

I love it here. Utah is a goregous state. The vast majority of the people are pretty friendly, and compared to most everywhere else this is a very conservative gun friendly state. The further you get from downtown SLC the gun friendlier it gets. (unless you are trapped in George's crappy town! :D )

As far as where to live, I might be able to help. I just bought a house so I think I've got a pretty good look at what is available. If you want to PM me with where exactly your job is, and what price range you are looking for I might be able to give you some ideas.

I live in West Jordan myself. Good place. West Valley City gets a bad rap because the single worst part of the Salt Lake Valley is there. However keep in mind that WVC is also the single biggest part of the valley. It is really broken into two pieces. Granger and Hunter. If you live in Hunter it is fine. Avoid Granger like the plauge.

Personally I think the east side is over priced. The same house will run you 50%-100% more on the east side. No offense to Sandy or Draper, but my house in WJ is the same distance from the freeway, bigger, same age, and cost half as much! :D Murray and Midvale also have many nice neighborhoods and are near the freeway.

Where to live really depends on where your job is located. I have about a 20-30 minute commute.

Favorite gunstores? Tight Group in West Jordan, and Get Some in Midvale. Dougs in West Valley sucks. Totally Awesome is staffed by tactical wannabes.

If you want to come shoot IDPA come and see us at www.udpl.net on the south end, or www.nudpa.com on the north end. For 3 gun matches, just give me a call. :)

Hey we need to have another Utah get together, we haven't done that since TFL!

[12 Volt Man]

Hey we need to have another Utah get together, we haven't done that since TFL!
I hadn't found TFL when the Last Utah Shoots were going on. PRCCW has been trying to get some interest in a "CZ" Utah shoot over on the CZ forum. I am in no matter what happens. It would be great to meet some of the forum members, shoot, and have a good time.

[Correia]

Skunk, I have yet to find really good authentic Chinese food in this state. I've found some pretty good Americanized ones, and one local place has some super good mapo tofu. :)

[Skunkabilly]

Totally Awesome is staffed by tactical wannabes.

Correia, should I fax them my resume? :D

[George Hill]

There are Chinese buffets and eateries all over the place.
Some are better than others. Best one is a tiny hole in the wall in Orem just around the corner from CompUSA by the mall. 5 bucks, all you can eat. Staff speaks little english. Good grub.

Totally Awesome Guns. :rolleyes:
I don't have time.

[George Hill]

Another Gathering?

That would be cool.

[KMKeller]

Totally Awesome Guns... Isn't that the place owned by the Pro 2A loon over at Totally Awesome Computers?

[mephisto]

I loved living in Utah. But I was a kid when I lived there. I remember going pheasant hunting in South Jordan on my gramps farm. Now Montana there is a great place. Alas I live in Arizona, nice place but getting to damn crowded. Utah has grown (SLC) way to big for my memories, and me. I love St. George.

[Correia]

Skunk, I'm afraid you aren't surly and ignorant enough to work there.

We should plan a Utah get together. Nightcrawler is even going to move out here.

[12 Volt Man]

We should plan a Utah get together. Allright, lets have one of the "Utah" Mods start a thread and get it going. Corriea or George?

[MagBas]

I have to agree with Correia about housing prices. The further south and west you go, the less expensive the housing. But it's a trade-off since the neighborhoods are generally nicer on the east side. If your haircut of choice is the mullet, and you find the image of Calvin urinating on a Chevy or Ford logo funny, you will feel right at home in West Valley. (Apologies to members with mullet haircuts and/or Calvin stickers on their vehicles.)

[Skunkabilly]

I want a Calvin peeing on a Glock :D

[Archer]

Warning: Mild hyperbole switch ENGAGED.


The whole Mormons control the state thing... no. We dont. If we did Rocky Anderson wouldn't be the Mayor of SLC. So give that noise a rest.

Oh, yes you do ;)

Trust me, if you aren't a member of the local Theocracy you WILL feel like an outsider. Mormons, who constitute about 70% of the state population, are decent and nice folk as a group, but if you aren't one you will soon learn that you are socially shunned for the most part. I would imagine being self-employed in a service industry here would be a real bitch for a non member. 'Nuff said.

On the other hand, having moved to SLC from Los Angeles (job transfer) I'm simply amazed to see all the "noisy liberal crowded polluted traffic-infested left leaning" comments about sleepy little Salt Lake City. I live 20 miles from where I work, it takes me about 16 minutes to get to said work place. Houses are 1/4th the price of what I am used to. Everything's cheaper, food, gas, everything. On the other hand, local fashions are about 7 years behind the curve...and oddly enough the place is full of crystal meth addicts. It's apparently one of the nation's top Meth Lab locations. There's a bit of gang activity in West Valley but nothing that would ever make the news in a larger city.

It's true, local drivers absolutely suck. I think the "fog a mirror" test must be used by the local DMV. I have also found that in general the local schools turn out semi-literate individuals far too often. Finding really good workers can be a challenge.

As for culture and cuisine: alas, the local idea of Italian (often pronounced locally as "eye-talian") :rolleyes: and Chinese food runs to Olive Garden and PF Chang's, respectively, and this is STILL the only place where I have heard a person in a business meeting refer to black people as "darkies" and MEAN IT, but if you look hard enough you can find enough to keep you occupied, and flights to civilization are cheap, as it's a Delta and JetBlue hub.

Skiing and hiking are world class.

SLC and the environs are a great place to exercise your Second Amendment rights. The immediate area offers an IDPA or USPSA match every single weekend for the most part, with other competition opportunities to be found mid week evenings in the Provo ("Happy Valley") area. Better yet these matches are full of friendly fellow shooters who will make you feel welcome, especially in the IDPA matches.

State CCW laws are the least restrictive I have personally experienced, better than in Arizona. Gun and accessory selection isn't wonderful in the local shops, but prices are OK and some comments above will lead you to some of the brighter spots to shop. In SLC proper are two outdoor ranges, an excellent one called the Lee Kay center which is run by the state DNR, and a club at Holliday which costs only fifty bucks a year to join. Yes there is the odd yahoo in places such as Totally Awesome (to be avoided like SARS, IMHO) but places such as Rangemasters more than make up for it.

I'm also a very satisfied Impact tactical customer.

[Goet]

For some info on home prices, try http://www.utahrealestate.com/

As "SLC" is a rather nebulous area, pinpointing where your job will be in the city would help us tell you some good areas to buy. I'm currently in Weber County, but have spent several years in SLC and a few more in Utah County.

[KMKeller]

Goet,

This is where the SLC branch of my company is located.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&addtohistory=&address=44+North+2200+s&city=Salt+Lake+city&state=UT&zipcode=&homesubmit=Get+Map

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/refreshmap.adp?z=6&rand=9918

And zoomed out a bit...
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/refreshmap.adp?z=5&rand=6333

[Kaxter]

Ah, I lived in Utah for 12 years and felt like an outcast since I didnt go to church. The people; however, are VERY nice people and I have more respect for mormons than any other religion out there. They help everyone, they really do. But be prepared for an onslaught of people that want to convert you, it is inevitable. All in all, I have much respect for the mormons, and some of my family are even members.

[capt_happypants]

If you're young, single, and have somewhat of more liberal bent, definitely check out Sugarhouse, 9 and 9, and the University of Utah areas of SLC. I lived in Sugarhouse (literally up the street from the Barnes and Noble that George mentioned). When I left in early 2000, there was a big development right around 21st South and about 12th East, and that had a Whole Foods Market, some yuppie-ish restaurants and the like.

SLC has some of the most rancorous city politics I've ever seen, and I can't figure out if it's due to the proximity to the Great Salt Lake, the inversions, or the green jello.

Nightlife still blows. If you are an outdoor person, you will be overwhelmed with all of the opportunities to camp, hike, fish, mountain bike, and ski within 2 hours of SLC.

Utah culture is heavily influenced by the LDS Church. It tends to be family friendly, very conservative, and on occasion, just plain baffling (see: "Real Men Don't Use Porn" billboard on westbound I-80, about 5 miles inside the state line). Utah communities tend be very close-knit, and it can be very difficult for non-LDS members to fit in majority-LDS communities. One of the ACD's at the interactive agency that I used to work at (DSW, which George is probably familiar with) was eventually pressured by his family to move to Colorado, because they felt that they couldn't fit in with the neighbors. It's not a common occurence; I got along just fine with my LDS co-workers and friends, but it can happen.

The overall quality of life in SLC is wonderful. Compared to other cities like Atlanta and St. Louis, SLC's crime rate is near non-existent. The locals gripe about the traffic, but after two years in Atlanta, I was heaven.

I've been in Gallenson's, nice selection. I forget what the name of the gun shop/range on Redwood Road - okay facility, just a mess on the retail floor.

If you decide to fish up there, have a reel that holds a lot of line. Twenty-four inch rainbows tend to run a long way.

[12 Volt Man]

From your work location it looks to me like your work would be approx a 15 to 20 minute drive from South Davis County where I live. I am sure it would be about the same from areas like South Jordan or Sandy. Your work location is pretty centrally located. I guess the next question to ask is what type of housing would you be looking for? Renting an apartment or buying a house?

[George Hill]

I tried fishing last Saturday. I hadn't really fished since I lived in Seattle. Anyways, loaded my Jeep up with some rods and a couple cans of worms and headed to the lake.
I got there at about 5:00 PM. Had all the boys lined up... poles in hands worms on hooks... everyone with the line in the water...

Got so bored holding the rod out there with line dangling in the water... drove me nuts... Drew my gun and blasted the water 18 times to the utter suprise of my sons.

Threw the rods back into the Jeep, loaded up and went to McDees where the boys played happily in the Play Place and I munched grimly on a McFish sandwitch. Looked at my watch... 5:30.

I hate fishing.

[KMKeller]

Initially, we'll probably look for a house and if we can't find something we like, we'll rent an apartment and build.

I'm married (going on 15 years) and have a seven year old son. Neither my wife or I do the night life thing anymore and I don't drink other than an occassional beer or glass of wine. Outdoorsy stuff is VERY much right up my alley. Hunting, fishing, camping, trekking, 4 wheeling, dirt bikin', all the stuff that comes with growing up in the high desert/ mountains of NM.

[Nightcrawler]

If you think the night life THERE blows try living in Marquette!

I'm moving out there next year. But I'm going to be attending the University, finishing my undergraduate degree and eventually going to law school, so I'll be around people my own age, and, probably a lot of other transplants like me.

I don't drink anyways, so I'm not bothered by the alcohol laws.

I liked Salt Lake, the two times I was there. Nice, clean city, generally friendly people, nary an unattractive woman to be found.... :D

I have a job hookup in SLC proper, and will be attending university. I'm moving with a friend, so we'll be needing a place to live that's near the city and campus, but he's not going to the school so I can't get campus housing (wouldn't want it anyway. I've done my share of that.)

[Russ]

I had a nephew that went the the University of Utah in SLC. He liked a beer occaisionally too. He got himself a home brewing kit for $80 and was happy as a clam. If you like booze, they have State run liquor stores where you can get whatever you want.

Utah is a beautiful State. Real estate prices have gone through the roof over the last 20 years (not sure why) but it is nice there. The reason I don't see why real estate went up so much is that you have a land locked state, no ports, no huge manufacturing base. Lots of educated people vying for jobs which generally pay low because there are so many qualified candidates.

[KMKeller]

Saxonpig:
If you plan to live there long enough for your son to groqw up he may have trouble finding a prom date. Or a steady girlfriend. Or a wife unless he becomes Mormon.

He'll find himself a nice Jewish girl like his daddy did.;)


Russ
Real estate prices have gone through the roof over the last 20 years (not sure why) but it is nice there.

From what I've seen, housing prices there are much less than they are here. Housing under $125 per square foot here is rare and rather trashy.

[Goet]

Looks like your job is right on the edge of the airport. Being so, it all depends on your price range and what you're looking for. When you do a search, take a look at Davis County from about Farmington down south. It still would be a decent drive (less than 30 minutes) and the school district (if you have kids) and community is much nicer than Salt Lake. Stay away from West SLC and downtown SLC as you can find some bad areas (Avenues is okay). Not to mention the rent/mortgage is outrageous and you'll save a buck by driving an extra 10 minutes. As mentioned, Kearns and parts of West Valley can be lemons as well, although there are some nice pockets of subdivisions in WVC. Magna is farther out against the west mountains and has older homes, but some newer subdivisions. George likes SugarHouse area, and for good reason. Homes are older but many are well kept and "quaint".

If you don't mind the drive, Davis County and the south end of the Salt Lake Valley (West Jordan, Taylorsville, Sandy, Murray, etc) aren't bad. Just remember that driving short distances East/West across the city can take longer than driving longer distances North/South.

[George Hill]

This Mormon stuff is getting under my skin.
A. It's not true.
B. It's coming very close to bashing.
C. It doesn't belong on THR.

So drop that subject. Utah is a great state to live in. Name another state that didn't let ALGORE have even one single county.

[KMKeller]

George, From my own experience, I've known and called friend many a Mormon, most of whom I didn't know the religious conviction even after knowing them for years (save one fella in the Navy, garments are conspicuous).

Never had an issue, nary a proselytizer among them. I've had run-ins with Southern Baptists however and had to physically pick one up and do my impression of midget tossing to get him off of my property.

Any way you look at it, I'm not sweating it, it's a non-issue. And my boy can charm any woman, regardless of race, creed, color or religion.:D

[12 Volt Man]

Goet pretty much sums up places that would be good to look at. If you want to look in Farmington, there is a nice subdivision going up right now where I am building. In fact, the lot next to mine is still available. :)

[KMKeller]

In fact, the lot next to mine is still available.
Yeah, but do you share your toys?

[12 Volt Man]

I have been know to play well with the neighborhood kids :D

[Monkeyleg]

All of the Utahans...er, Utahites..um, Utans...folks from Utah posting on this thread make me jealous.

There's no other state I'd rather live in, but the advertising industry is almost nonexistant.

I've spent so much time in the southern part of the state that I know it better than my home state of Wisconsin. I don't really know where Antigo, WI is, but I can find Teasdale Junction immediately.

You folks are so lucky. And you will be, too, Nightcrawler.

[tetchaje1]

KMKeller,
If you do get transferred here, drop me a line and we'll go shooting sometime! :)

What everybody else has told you is essentially true about where to live here in Utah. Most of the areas east of 900 East are decent with the premium real estate getting more and more prevalent the further east you go. Look into the Foothill and Sugarhouse areas if you are earning a normal middle-class living. Look into the Harvard/Yalecrest, Federal Heights, Avenues, and Olympus Cove areas if you are earning substantially more than that. These are all areas that are very close to downtown (with the exception of the Olympus Cove area) where you can be downtown in less than 10 minutes. If you are working out near the airport, the Olympus Cove area works very well because you can just jump on the freeway and go there very easily while missing much of the city's surface-street traffic. It may actually be faster to commute from Olympus Cove to the airport than from Sugarhouse because of the street traffic.

If you are looking at Davis county, don't forget Bountiful (again if you are earning more $$$), and, like everybody else said, Farmington, Fruit Heights, etc...

Stay away from Rose Park, WVC, Kearns, and parts of Magna. I also wouldn't buy in Roy if you are looking further north. Layton also has some gang problems in some parts of the city, but there are also some very nice neighborhoods there, too.

Further south, Sandy and Draper are pretty nice, as is South Jordan -- though newer with fewer trees. Bluffdale is near the prison, so you may want to pass on that area unless you are looking for a larger parcel of land. The community along Wasatch Drive (Holladay, Sandy, Draper) is considered premium property and will appreciate, as well.

If you are looking at Utah County, don't overlook some of the areas of Highland/Alpine. There is some older stuff there, but I have seen some really nice places there, too. Pleasant Grove is nice, but is much more crowded than when I first lived there in the early 90's.

Hope this helps. :)

[Stratford Holdings]

I lived in Utah but am now in Louisiana. I wanna go back. I miss buying ammo at Van Wags for super cheap. Plus, I'm not finding many gun stores down here that I can just browse.

[Archer]

George,

Utah is a very solid pro Second Amendment state. You and I have not met, but we share that common bond and common point of view with respect to our mutual rights. (I also greatly enjoy your website musings from time to time.)

However, when you say good natured and honest comments about the perception of LDS influence on culture and government in Utah are "not true" and try to draw the "bashing" card, I find myself disagreeing with you.

I am sure you must agree that people are entitled to opinions based on their personal observation and on facts.

Fact: Utah is 69% LDS, according to the state's own information and further, about 99.3% of the elected officials statewide are LDS. So when you say:

The whole Mormons control the state thing... no. We dont. If we did Rocky Anderson wouldn't be the Mayor of SLC. So give that noise a rest.

...it's rather a weak argument, as Anderson is perhaps the only official in the state above the rank of dog warden who isn't LDS. The Governor, both senators, most of the state legislature and most local officials are all LDS members. I'm not saying that's a bad thing or not, but it is a fact.

This affects me minimally. If I were to stand on a street corner within 200 yards of the temple downtown and smoke a cigar, you and I know I would be treated as if I walked into Mecca chewing on a dripping pork BBQ sandwich. But other than the social issues I run into at work when I drop an occasional F-bomb, it's no big deal to me personally. However, the issues are real, and may be of concern - or at least, interest- to a person moving here from another state.

Bashing? I think not.

[George Hill]

I appologize for my thin skin on this subject...
I was just reading this as turning into a "Utah's great sept for all them Mormons".
I'd have said the same thing if it was about any church or faith.

I almost got on with an advertising firm in SLC... KPMG. (I forget, it was awhile ago but they are near the Delta Center) It was a great office, nice people, really cool atmosphere. Guys walking around barefoot and things.
I didn't get the job because I was a gun owner. During my 2nd interview that fact came out and 2 of the 3 people interviewing me visibly bristled. I forget how the subject came up, but I didn't bring it up... I knew if it did I wouldn't get it.
Oh Well. I guess I wouldn't have fit in anyways.

[Archer]

;) Cool. I would HATE to think I was arguing with or had irritated a fellow Tenacious D fan. By the way, I think Kurosawas Ran belongs somewhere on your movie list... but I digress.

Actually I think Utah would be a HOLE in a lot of ways if it WERE NOT for the Mormons, but thats another matter.

As for your experience with the ad agency, I guess I am fortunate to work for people with a more enlightened attitude regarding gun rights.

It was my company president who (happily) signed the letter of recommendation required by Gunsite as part of their credentialing process, the first time I went there for training.

[capt_happypants]

George, that outfit over by Delta Center probably was Euro RSCG Dahlin Smith White. If you intereviewed in Triad Center, that's the shop.

They were just a little bit left-of-center.

[George Hill]

Euro RSCG - That's them.

The movie RAN sould be on the list... Absolutely. But I think it's 2nd to Heaven & Earth.
I'll update that soon enough... along with a HUGE rant from Corriea.

(In it he mentions DOUG'S SHOOTING SPORTS on Redwood Road. Whatever you do - DO NOT go into that shop. I entered and found myself in the crossfire of an Employee BB Gun fire fight. I'm not kidding. They have no consideration for safety of any sort and the indoor range is pathetic. Under lit and under ventilated and on top of that, it sucks. The prices might be cheap, but I'd rather go someplace else and pay the extra 10 to 20 bucks to NOT have guns pointed at me, be ignored, and treated the worse I have ever been treated anywhere. I'd rather buy a gun from the back of a van that for some reason doesn't have any liscense plates on it and risk it being stolen than to buy from Doug's and risk getting my arse shot.... again...)

[hjrocket]

Roger: What George Hill said ref: Doug's Sorry Sports.
We got the world's best skiing.
We got some of the world's most beautiful vistas.
We got good gun laws.
We got great fishing and hunting.
We got some of the nicest folks you will ever meet , ( and I am not of the LDS persuasion) of all races , creeds , and colors!!
We could live anywhere, but we CHOOSE to live in Utah (even with the lousy tax structure):uhoh:

[KMKeller]

Heck, it sounds so nice I may just move out there WITHOUT the transfer...

[Sodbuster]

Name another state that didn't let ALGORE have even one single county.
Well done, George. Wyoming placed second with only one county (Teton) going to Algore. Utah is a wonderful state.

[BallisticTip]

Hi, we are the flying Elvis'es, Utah chapter. :D

[George Hill]

Don't be cruel...

[Chairman Meow]

KMKeller -

I have lived in Utah all my life and I love it. I can't think of anywhere else I'd rather live. I love climbing, and SLC is probably the best metro area to live in for climbers. I flyfish and hunt frequently, and Utah has a lot to offer in all directions for the sportsman. The skiing, which will be less than a half hour from your front door, is the best I have ever seen, and I've skiied all over the west. Southern Utah is quite possibly the most amazing and beautiful place on the face of the planet; the Mormons named it Zion for a reason.

I'm sure you can gather from the previous posts that the Mormon / non-Mormon issue can be a heated one here. I am not a Mormon, but I still love living in Utah and I generally find Mormons to be great people to live with. Religious beliefs aside, I think that getting a feel for local politics is an important aspect of investigating a place to live, so understanding the political leanings of the LDS church might be useful. The LDS church is pretty pro-gun, as their scriptures and prophets have made it clear that they believe in a man's right to defend his home. The church is also very pro-business and pro-growth, though environmentalists often feel overlooked. An issue for incoming residents is the proposed nuclear waste storage site that the native americans are trying to get established on tribal lands west of SLC. The LDS Church and LDS officials like the Governor are staunchly opposed; they don't even want the stuff driven through our valley. The LDS church is generally Republican, though church officials came out against the war in Iraq. This gained respect from me not because of the position they had taken but because of their demonstration that they have no reservations about breaking from partisan political lines. As for the "LDS Church controls the government" thing, well thats pretty much true. Any guess why? Mormons vote. An awesome ethic that they generally share that I wish more Americans shared. It makes them damn hard to compete with in local politics, but they are the majority and this is a democracy (sort of :rolleyes: ). It's frustrating, but thats life.

Despite what rumors are floating around, you can still go out drinking in SLC. It's not a huge night life, but there are some cool places and I enjoy the mid-sized town feel and the fact that I run into people I know. I go out to drink every couple / few weeks and I don't really get bored with the scene. Daily drinkers and club-goers get bored pretty quickly though.

All in all, this is a very nice place to live. Good luck.

[mephisto]

I like Utah but I cant live there again. I remember a small little valley. Now it just to damn big. I am Mormon and I can see the point of the majority Mormons being “overwhelming”. It’s like any other situation where there is a massive majority of people that have the same belief. Like a gun owner at a fundraiser for Sen. Klinton. Oh it only takes one ??? to ruin it for everyone.

Mephisto

[DrPsycho]

All that's said and done about Utah (I'm in southern UT so I'll just take the word of my fellow Utahns as truth), I have only ever managed to catch a glimpse of one person carrying. The rest, I guess, had them concealed well enough. ;)

And the mix of colors/races aren't all that either, I could probably count the number of non-white people on two hands. I personally stick out like a sore thumb being of asian descent, but I don't mind. :)

[444]

I don't live in Utah and never have. But I live near Utah and consider it one of the most beautiful places I have ever seen. A couple weeks ago I went fishing in Montana. I chose to make the 900 mile drive each way just for the scenery.

[George Hill]

I am told the fishing right now is just incredible. The local guys are all a buzz about fishing. They are saying they are biting on almost anything you put in the water.

I'm not into fishing. In fact, I truely dislike fishing. Hunting is great... Shooting an animal is no problem. Fishing is utterly boring. I like the fast fishing boats... but that's it.

[Fish Springs]

In Utah County, south of Salt Lake City there are a couple of interesting gun stores and a fine range.

1. Van Wagonen Finance, Orem on State Street what a pawn shop--Norm will get your money.

2. Gunnies ~400 North State Street--this one ought to show up in Google. Ron Davies is a fine person to deal with.

3. Hobble Creek Canyon rifle range--now known as the Garth Killpack Range is a semi-private range with public access a couple of times a month. Good benches, sanctioned bench rest and 22 matches. This one is in Hobble Creek Canyon, east of Springville, Utah.

Oh, and check out the Browning Firearms Collection at the Union Pacific Depot in Odgen. BTW John M. Browning was member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (aka Mormon). Just think of all the Mormon designed guns you might own ;)

[444]

Speaking of that; one my drive to Montana, I only stopped for fuel and one other thing; The Browning Firearms Collection at the Union Pacific Depot in Odgen. But then, that was a given. I questioned the guy working there to the third degree. I was ready to sit him down with a bare lightbulb. I photographed everything in the museum and spent just shy of $100 in the gift shop. Then drove another three hundred miles.

[Shake]

KMKeller,

When are you planning on moving? Just a word of caution to add. . . if you plan on looking for housing in Davis County (most of which is close to your workplace), stay away from the refineries at the southern end of the county. I worked for an agency that received air quality complaints because of the refineries. There can be some pretty obnoxious odors coming from the refineries quite often. Often people will look at homes on "good" days, decide to buy, then find out too late that their new neighborhood stinks. . .literally.

Bountiful, Centerville, Farmington, North Salt Lake, Kaysville, Layton, Syracuse, etc. would all be good choices IMHO.

As far as the entire "mormon" issue, don't sweat it. I am "LDS", but have no problem at all with those who are not. The only two people I'd call close friends are not LDS and it simply isn't an issue. Your son will do fine here. He'll find friends. My closest friend actually grew up in Provo (sometimes referred to as "Happy Valley" - high percentage of LDS) in a family of eight, graduated from BYU, etc. and managed to stay sane while NOT being LDS. Had a great experience.

Your place of work would actually be very close to mine (still working for a government agency located on North Temple). If you do live in Davis County, check out the bus system. I ride every day and love it, extra hour of sleep every day. . . . ;)

Good luck. . .

Shake

[KMKeller]

Good to know info Shake, thanks!