Lesson learned


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bigcim
April 30, 2007, 03:57 AM
I bought a Lyman turret press thinking it would be faster than a single stage press. I bought it for my 7mm rem mag and 45 acps. I haven't got a chance to reload the 7mm but I just finished reloading 300 rounds of the 45's and it took forever:confused: , needless to say I will be purchasing a progressive shortly for the pistol rounds. 300 rounds is one trip to the range for me and at the local Wal-mart I can buy a 100ct of winchester white box for $21.00, so with my time I didn't save anything but I know that will change when reloading the 7mm and a progressive for the 45's

Lesson learned :D

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JDGray
April 30, 2007, 07:07 AM
I went with a Lee turret, and found it way faster than a single stage. The Auto Disc powder measure, probably did the most & no more switching dies. But, you still have to pull the handle the same amount of times, and I see your point:neener:

DaveInFloweryBranchGA
April 30, 2007, 08:15 AM
Now you know why the original owner of that press was willing to sell you the kit for a hundred bucks. You'd be money and marbles ahead to sell it and get yourself a Lee Classic Turret. It'll load both those rounds and will do so at a rate of an easy 200 rounds an hour. I've been able to get 300 rounds per hour out of mine, but I have to work at it. 200 is the "loaf along" speed and includes setup and clean up time.

Regards,

Dave

The Bushmaster
April 30, 2007, 11:10 AM
And then you have people, like me, that have no use for a progressive press (heard too many nightmares of rounds that were defective from a progressive). I enjoy my Lee turret. If I decide to replace it I'll probably go with either a T-7 or the Lee cast turret, but no progressive. You practice loading those .45s on that turret for a while and you'll get faster. It usually takes me about one evening to load 300 to 400 rounds on mine and that is doing the resizing/decaping and priming on a single stage sitting next to the turret...I also weigh every powder charge I drop...

JDGray
April 30, 2007, 01:01 PM
Bushmaster just described my loading bench to a T. With sized and primed cases done ahead of time, I can chunk out 100 rds in 15 min, easy. My Lee turret sucks for priming, so I use the Lee hand primer. But hey, I still clean primer pockets, so its just as well:D

benedict1
April 30, 2007, 01:24 PM
Lee turret sucks for priming

I believe Gray is talking about the old turret press and Auto Prime. Not the new Safety Prime which is so much better than anything out there.

I agree with the rate per hour--it is easy to do 200 rounds per hour. If you shoot 3-400 rounds per week you invest a couple of enjoyable hours putting them all back together again with the Lee Classic Turret.:D

Idano
April 30, 2007, 01:55 PM
bigcim,

If you are going to buy progressive I recommend either the Dillon 650 or the Hornady AP. Progressive presses all have their runtime quirks but these two seem to have a better uptime between failures or assists. I have had the Lee LoadMaster and I will say it will do the job but it does has more runtime failures and assists then the other two, but it is also only costs about half the price so that is your trade off.

The nightmares that The Bushmaster are usually contributed to users in the early stages of learning to reload on a progressive press or individuals that really don't understand how to load on a progressive. Some users seem to take the approach that progressive is all about pulling the handle and cranking out loads, but to be successful there is much more to it. I have successfully reloaded for 5 years on a progressive press 41/2 on lee and 6 months on a Hornady AP without any problems and I contribute it to these simple rules:


Take the time to setup the press correctly. This means cycle casings through it with no power, primers or bullets until every stage works smoothly and you get the feel of how it is suppose to run.
Pick loads where the powder fills over 60% of the case that way there is no double charges.
I never use extruded powders only ball or flake.
Find standard deviation of power measure and determine it's for every powder you use and choose your load so that even at two times the deviation you would overcharge a case.
Check your powder dispense on routine schedule, For me it every 50th round for ball power and every 25th for flake.


Granted these rules definitely make developing new loads more challenging but is very do able.

subierex
April 30, 2007, 02:42 PM
Agree with Benedict1. I'm just getting back into reloading and put my first 200 rounds (of 45 Colt) thru my Classic Turret this past weekend. It took me a couple hours ONLY because I was being excessively careful measuring powder charges every 10th and then every 25th round as well as OAL. Also was visually checking powder every throw. Now that I'm comfy with it I imagine I could do 150/hour and feel I was at a leisurely pace.

This setup is no piece of junk either. It is very heavy duty. I can't imagine why anyone would want a progressive unless they are lucky enough to shoot many hundreds (1000+ ?) of rounds per week.

One noob's opinion. :D

JDGray
April 30, 2007, 03:26 PM
Yeah, I missed out on the Classic Cast press by a month. The priming system looks worlds better than my old style 4 hole turret.

benedict1
April 30, 2007, 04:07 PM
JDGray--I'm pretty sure you can buy an upgrade kit for the Safety Prime---

Here's the description from the Lee website

Update Kit for pre-2006 Lee Turret presses

Everything required to add Lee Safety Prime. Features a new ram with the Lee LPS system, right front column, mounting bracket, and necessary hardware. Also includes both large and small Safety Primer Feed.
Update Kit for pre-2006 presses 90042 Serv.Parts

MSRP is $40; I'll bet you can get it from Kempf for about $30 plus shipping. It would definitely make your like easier. Give them a call at

http://www.kempfgunshop.com/index.html

JDGray
April 30, 2007, 07:57 PM
The depriming is what really sucks, with primers going anywhere they please. The new press, with the tube, looks like a better plan.:)

benedict1
April 30, 2007, 08:45 PM
I agree with you on that one! But aren't there a couple of "gee whiz" fixes for that on the old turret press?

redneck2
April 30, 2007, 09:10 PM
This thread is the reason I get a little testy with threads about "How can I get started reloading for less than $25?"

The way I look at it, the faster you reload, the faster you save money. Now, I'm not willing to sacrifice safety, but with a good progressive and some good sense, you can reload great ammo and save a ton of money.

It it turns into work then its, well.....work. Difference is, it's work you have to do, not work you get paid for. IMO, anybody that reloads pistol on a single stage is a glutton for punishment. You can run loads one at a time (on a progressive) and learn reloading and how to set up the press, then graduate to progressive.

I paid for my progressive and all the other stuff in the first 20 boxes I reloaded.

FieroCDSP
April 30, 2007, 09:53 PM
I've had my Loadmaster for a few months now, and I can say that I've had little problem with it. It was initially fussy, but after I viewed the user setup vids on YouTube, It started working worlds better. I usually take the tie to clean my primer pockets, so i load somecases in, and only use the decapper on a die-turret. CLean the pockets, and I can either put them in like that, or prime by hand first. I lucked out a while back as I got some cases that needed swaged, and if I had been using the progressive in full-tilt, I would have crunched a bunch. Then again, the othe day I loaded in some of my reliable brass and went full-tilt with no problem other than the usual case-tipping out of the feeder. This goes away after a few cases.

Progressives are pricey, but you have to ask yourself how much you're going to use it. Almost everyone here still has a single-stage or two they fall back on. I like to think it's so we can go "Old School" every now and then, to remind ourselves it's a hobby.

bigcim
May 1, 2007, 12:41 AM
quick question when reloading on a turret is it faster to run one shell threw all the stages till its done or do one stage at a time on like fifty rounds then change to the next die and repeat

do you guys debur when reloading 45 acp
thanks

bigcim
May 1, 2007, 03:11 AM
?

Idano
May 1, 2007, 04:30 AM
redneck2,

Reloading is only work if you in it believing that you are actually do it to save money. The actual ROI is very low for reloading when you factor in your actually out of pocket costs and calculate the lost income you could have earned at work instead of spending it at the bench.

Reloading should be a hobby that is relaxing and rewarding, but if you're feeling it is work then you should really consider buying your ammunition in bulk where it can purchased for the same price as reloads or cheaper. I once loaded shot shells like you to save money and really didn't enjoy it. So I sold all my equipment and now buy target and hunting loads at the local range in bulk for 0.25-0.50 more a box then what it cost me to reload them. My off time was worth more to me then a lousy $10 and hour for something I considered work. I hope in time you find reloading enjoyable and not a chore, but I won't fault you if you don't.


bigcim,

To fully utilize a turret press you want to invest in a case activated powder measure and then run one shell through all the stages.

redneck2
May 1, 2007, 07:53 AM
I guess it depends on your point of view. I can run off 50 rounds of 45 Colt in just a few minutes for $5-6. I just started a guy that had never reloaded before. I let him run off 100 rounds. He couldn't believe how easy and quick it is.

Rifle rounds are fine on a single or turret. For high volume pistol, I'd rather watch paint dry than use a single stage. I'm not looking for ultimate precision. I'm not that good with a pistol. I'm interested in practice rounds, and I can save maybe 70% in short order.

YMMV.

DaveInFloweryBranchGA
May 1, 2007, 09:23 AM
bigcim,

I don't know how many rounds you're producing now per hour, but if you're producing 50 rounds per hour, that's about tops for one of those old style turrets. Hence why I suggest folks go with the Lee Classic Turret. With it, you can easily do four times the 50 round figure per hour.

To get the 50 rounds per hour if you aren't getting it, you'll have to develop "batch" techniques very much like on a single stage and it helps to have a case activated powder drop in stalled in one slot on your turret.

Regards,

Dave

bigcim
May 1, 2007, 11:11 AM
do I do 50 in each step or keep turning the turret till I get a round finished which way have you guys found to be faster

DaveInFloweryBranchGA
May 1, 2007, 01:56 PM
That question, my friend, has to be answered by each individual reloader. I work faster on an old style turret by doing "batch" work. Some work faster doing it one at a time. You'll have to figure out what you do best as an individual.

Here's the batch method I used with a Lyman T-Mag:

1. Start with the press setup and ready to go.

2. Using clean brass and two reloading blocks that hold fifty each, remove clean brass from block A, resize it and place on block B.

3. Prime off press using a Lee Auto Prime or one of the higher priced outfits that may work as well as the Lee. Continue to to switch cases from Block A to Block B to identify those cases that are ready for the next step. When you're done, reverse block locations.

4. When you're finished priming, turn turret head to next die, which should be your expander and hopefully your powder drop die as well. Expand your cases and drop powder, each time you're finished with the case, move it to block B as before. When you're done, reverse blocks gently so you won't spill powder.

5. When you're finished expanding the case mouth and dropping powder, turn the turret head to the seating die. Moving cases from Block A to block B, seat bullets individually.

6. If you have a separate crimp die, turn the turret one more time. Crimp the cartridges, moving each cartridge from block A to block B. When you're done, you have 50 completed cartridges.

7. Realize unless you only want a hundred or so a week, this is nuts and buy a Lee Classic Turret press or a progressive before you go insane. That is, unless you find this theraputic or a "zen" thinigie or some such.

Regards,

Dave


regards,

Dave

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