[ripcurlksm]

Is it bad to drop the slide using the slide release on an empty chamber? I have heard that it can mess up your trigger job, or I'm sure worse...I have also heard the opposite that it is not hurting anything... thoughts, wisdom? Aside from the "any physical process causes wear" bit.

What does Biker do? I bet he has a good answer :evil:

[bensdad]

I used to do it all the time. Then I read the last thread about it. the consensus seemed to be that it was a bad idea. Now I ease it home if the chamber is empty.

[Rod B]

I don't do it. I makes sense to me that the gun was designed to chamber a cartridge as the slide goes into battery. I believe the cartridge tends to cushion the impulse when the slide snaps forward.

I find it easy to gently ease the slide forward when the chamber is empty.

No point in adding unnecessary stress to the gun.

[Rik]

I don't drop the slide at all unless chambering a round.

[Coltdriver]

Here is the reason that dropping the slide on an empty chamber is a bad thing for your 1911.

The extractor would normally be stopped from further inward movement by the case of the next round.

When you drop the slide and there is no case to stop the inward movement of the extractor it strains it. Do that enough and one day you may break the extractor.

Thats it. Simple. Won't hurt your trigger job. You can dry fire the thing all day by just cocking it. But slamming the slide onto an empty chamber is a bad idea with your 1911.

[gc70]

The only time I drop the slide on an empty chamber is when testing sear engagement. If you drop the slide using the slide release and the hammer follows the slide, you have a problem with hammer/sear engagement.

[daysleeprx]

Never...even if it doesn't hurt anything (which I'm pretty sure it DOES), better to be safe than sorry.

Besides, besides testing sear engagement, why would you need to do it?

[270Win]

After reading the recent post, I'll never do it again, ever. Can someone link to the post? I'm having trouble dredging it up.

[10-Ring]

I use to -- but I have reformed my ways! :D

[ripcurlksm]

Coltdriver, interesting... so as the slide move forward the extractor moves horizontally inward to catch the next round, and with no round it is over-strained inward? Is this an issue with external extractors only? My internal extractor doesn't even move in this fashion. The internal extractor is one solid piece when removed, how could it flex?

[PRazz]

I've done it in the past, but after re-reading the manual that came with my Kimber I don't anymore.
It specifically says on page 22, #4 under the title Unloading: "Release slide forward onto the empty chamber by pulling slide fully rearward and releasing or by manually rotating the slide stop downward past the slide stop notch. Repeatedly allowing the slide to slam closed on an empty chamber will cause premature wear and loosening on a match grade 1911 such as the Kimber. Ease the slide closed."

Another bad habit I've broken myself of is the next one, #5 "Pull the trigger allowing the hammer to fall forward on the empty chamber. Do not "ease" the hammer down by holding or blocking it. Doing so may mar the sear tip which will result in a substandard trigger pull."

Thought I would share, break out those manuals and see if other manufacturers say anything along those lines.

[ElectraGlideInBlue]

Never on an empty chamber or one with a round already in the chamber unless you hate your extractor. Ease it closed on an empty and always make sure any round put in the chamber is stripped off the mag and the rim of the round slides under the extractor.

Also, when loading the gun at the range where you you are not under pressure of a live situation, always release the slide in the "slingshot" manner. It will save wear and tear on the slide stop and slide engagment notch.

[gc70]

My internal extractor doesn't even move in this fashion. The internal extractor is one solid piece when removed, how could it flex?Internal extractors on 1911s are designed to flex. The extractor is slightly curved, with the ends curved toward the inside of the extractor channel and the middle of the extractor toward the outside of the channel. As a round is being fed, the hooked end of the extractor has to flex slightly outward to allow the round to be pushed up into position against the breech face, but also maintain tension to hold the round in proper position to feed into the chamber.

[mrcpu]

How does the extractor move inward as the slide moves forward? I do not see the linkage that makes this happen.

These suggestions sound more like WAG's than any kind of actual measured response. Heck, if we go by the manual's, the SD manual for the EMP says to carry it w/o a round in the chamber, and *don't* lower the hammer by pulling the trigger, but lower it by gripping it and squeezing the trigger... and lower it slowly...

[thedpp]

I am pretty new to 1911s and I heard about this about a week ago... I never dropped it with the release but regardless its still a good think to know

[MS .45]

I did before I knew better, but no more.

[gc70]

How does the extractor move inward as the slide moves forward? I do not see the linkage that makes this happen.

The tip of the extractor is flexed outward as a round is pushed up the breech face into position to be chambered.

From The U.S. M1911/A1 Pistols & Commercial M1911 Type Pistols - A Shop Manual - Volume 2 by Jerry Kuhnhausen:

Page 141:
Extractor notes: M1911 extractors are basically springs.

Page 143:
4. Extractor tension - adjust bend to correct spring tension at D.

[sm]

Only when I am doing certain function checks as gunsmiths do.

Please use user-names 1911 Tuner, Old Fuff, Jim Keenan, for starters, in doing a search please.

[glockman19]

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[Coltman73]

This is the same manual that says "never fire reloaded ammunition through a firearm"...Hmmm

Guys, I'm not knocking what y'all are saying, and for a match grade comp gun it's probably right.
However, the 1911 was designed to be the toughest, most rugged and reliable handgun ever built, and next to the glock I would say still is.
I've been shooting and carying these things for the last 25 years, and I've never seen a failure as described in this post. Can it happen? Sure, but then again we can get hit twice by lightening on the way home from work tomorrow too.
Just my .02




I've done it in the past, but after re-reading the manual that came with my Kimber I don't anymore.
It specifically says on page 22, #4 under the title Unloading: "Release slide forward onto the empty chamber by pulling slide fully rearward and releasing or by manually rotating the slide stop downward past the slide stop notch. Repeatedly allowing the slide to slam closed on an empty chamber will cause premature wear and loosening on a match grade 1911 such as the Kimber. Ease the slide closed."

Another bad habit I've broken myself of is the next one, #5 "Pull the trigger allowing the hammer to fall forward on the empty chamber. Do not "ease" the hammer down by holding or blocking it. Doing so may mar the sear tip which will result in a substandard trigger pull."

Thought I would share, break out those manuals and see if other manufacturers say anything along those lines.

[XavierBreath]

The only time I drop the slide from slide release on an empty chamber is when I am checking the 1911 for hammer follow. I see no other reason to do it.

To quote Hilton Yam (http://www.10-8consulting.com/article_page.php?articleID=13)(he knows a bit about 1911s):Always ease the slide down on an empty chamber, never slam it shut from slide lock. A G.I. rack grade 1911 may do fine when you slam the slide on the empty chamber, but a gun with a tuned trigger and fitted barrel will do better without it. The jarring of the slide slamming down on an empty chamber can cause the hammer to follow and the sear nose to crash into the hammer hooks. Your trigger job will last longer if you ease the slide down. Further, the lower lugs on a match fit barrel take a lot of impact when they contact the slide stop, and without the buffering effect of the round feeding into the chamber, you increase wear on your barrel by slamming the slide on an empty chamber. It's not the end of the world if the slide drops on an empty chamber, but it's not a good habit to develop either. It is the sign of an amateur 1911 handler. I have never heard of the extractor issue brought up by Coltdriver. It makes sense if the extractor was not properly fitted, I suppose.

I'll note that Yam also advocates in the same article not ever feeding a round directly into the chamber of a 1911, but rather to feed from the magazine instead. By contrast, Ned Christiansen built a device to test this idea. The device duplicated the extractor stress from a Bubba load, and then measured it's effect of extractor setting/tension. First, he ran the device for 10,000 flexs. No change. Next, 30,000, no change. then 60,000. No change. (I'm quoting/paraphrasing a Guns & Ammo article by Pat Sweeney here, I'm unable to find an internet link to Ned's experiment.) A lot of folks, myself included, have a hard time letting that bit of 1911 "knowledge" die off though.

[ripcurlksm]

Thank you all for your knowledge

[Zeke Menuar]

Never. That would be blasphemy.

ZM

[[FH]K96]

From what has been said above, is it safe to assume snap caps are OK to drop the slide on?

[mrcpu]

The tip of the extractor is flexed outward as a round is pushed up the breech face into position to be chambered.

From The U.S. M1911/A1 Pistols & Commercial M1911 Type Pistols - A Shop Manual - Volume 2 by Jerry Kuhnhausen:


Yes, but the original question was about an emtpy chamber. I was assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that he meant an unloaded magazine as well, like if you're examining a gun in a gun store. In which case, the extractor has no cartridge to cause it to move, so I don't see how it wears.

Of course, if we're talking empty chamber, loaded mag, I'm gonna let that slide and spring grab that cartridge and slam it home just like it was designed to. I don't know why I'd need to "baby" it on the first cartridge, and then let the natural motion and action in the slide working under recoil do it's thing...

But maybe I misunderstand the whole train of thought.

[Ala Dan]

Years ago, I use to do it all the time~! :eek:

But, as I got older (and wiser) I learned that this practice was actually
bad for the weapons; so I don't do it with any self-loader these days.
Nor do I flop an open cylinder of a revolver back into place with a flip
of the wrist~! ;) :D

[tipoc]

Xavier is right and the quote from Hilton seems about right about why not to drop the slide on an empty gun. It does not effect the extractor but it is a case of general battering.

To be clear we are talking here of dropping the slide on a gun when there are no rounds in the mag in other words an empty gun.

tipoc

[Whirlwind06]

How about when you are in a shooting competition?
The one I was at last weekend (my first) I had to drop slide and pull the trigger before I could come off the firing line.
I don't know if the range master would be ok with me easing the slide down.

[Zach S]

I dont let the action slam shut on an emtpy chamber in any autoloader, unless it lacks a BHO (10-22, AK, etc). Even with them I ride the action closed. Its a 1911 habit thats made its way to everything else.

[adweisbe]

As part of a function check yes.

[Lonestar49]

...

I think it rates right up there with Dry-Firing..

~ there's a right way and, there's a wrong way.


LS :scrutiny:

[HSMITH]

Absolutely I do, when done cleaning/checking/maintaining or working on a gun. I also do it after trigger work. Doing so tells me that the hammer and sear are interfacing correctly, everything is back where it needs to be and that the adjustments are all where they need to be.

I don't do it just to do it, but these things are a heck of a lot tougher than most realize. It isn't the end of the world if you do.

[Black Majik]

I never drop the slide on an empty chamber

[ElectraGlideInBlue]

My point was that in chambering a round from the magazine, rather than a round in the chamber and letting the slide forward, the rim of the cartridge slips under the extractor, flexing less and keeping forces off the face of the extractor.

I tend to be a little anal about my guns (especially expensive 1911's) so it's probably just academic.

I kinda live by that motto "old guys know stuff" and give weight to people who have been shooting longer than I.

[kellyj00]

funny... I went to a local gun shop and noticed a para ordinance 1911 in the case, I thought hey I don't have one of those yet! so I asked to look at it.

The slide didn't fully meet the lower in the back, you could tell it was about 1/16" off. I told the guy behind the counter, who I know pretty well... "the slide on this may be replaced or something. What's up with this?"

He said "nope, that's the result of dropping the slide without a round in the magazine multiple times. here..." and he hands me the exact same pistol, but from his concealed holster. His personal para ordinance 1911 lined up almost perfectly, could hardly feel it. so I asked him how many rounds he had shot, he said 10's of thousands...never replaced anythign but springs and barrel on that gun.

So, I was inclined to believe that doing that over and over again would lead to the slide mis-matching the frame. It also explained the price.

[Extremist]

Well if you shoot IDPA or at any kind of range with Range Officer's they will MAKE you show an empty weapon, drop the slide, point it at the berm and pull the trigger before you reholster to assure an empty weapon.

If your 1911 can't take it, get a different 1911.

I don't make a habit of it but at the range during matches, I have no qualms about doing it with my Smith & Wesson 1911s, or my Les Baers. :)

Regards,
James

[ElectraGlideInBlue]

Extremist,

Do you mean they force you to let it slide forward at full force rather than easing it closed?

[ripcurlksm]

Yes Extremist, why couldnt you rack the slide and close it by hand?

[Geronimo45]

Yes. Not often, though.

[tipoc]

Quote...
"He said "nope, that's the result of dropping the slide without a round in the magazine multiple times. here..."

So, I was inclined to believe that doing that over and over again would lead to the slide mis-matching the frame. It also explained the price."

I think you're wrong here, or he was anyway. Dropping the slide won't account for that, a few other things would go wrong first.

As Xavier explained it effects the sear. Hilton Yam explained it correctly. Patrick Sweeney in his book on the 1911 also makes the same point. A fella could drop the slide for a good long while without any noticible effect but it will in time have an effect.

Back in the day, way back, the 30s through the 50s it was common practice among bullseye shooters to drop the slide on any piece they handled. As the trigger of the guns were so light they wanted the hammer to follow or to follow with only a slight push off. But it is no longer necessary. It isn't evan needed for a function check though many still do that.

tipoc

[Neo-Luddite]

Also, when loading the gun at the range where you you are not under pressure of a live situation, always release the slide in the "slingshot" manner. It will save wear and tear on the slide stop and slide engagment notch.

Read that again, courtesy of ElectraGlideInBlue.

I got my SA 1911a1 in 1992 for my self-given 21st B-day gift. Of course, it got horsed around with a lot. The only serious wear on the gun is on the left slide from the lock being released too often for 's--ts & giggles'. I actually had to take some polishing cloth to it and replace the slide lock. It is one of the guns weakest points (especially if you're a dumb college kid who thinks he know somehting).

[Neo-Luddite]

1

[Technosavant]

I don't ever drop the slide on an empty chamber, no need to.

[Extremist]

Extremist,
Do you mean they force you to let it slide forward at full force rather than easing it closed?

No, I'm sorry, didn't mean they make you drop it from slide lock. Actually, now that I think about it, most people do retract the slide, show the empty chamber and then some let it go forward without easing it down, but maybe some do ease it. As long as you show an empty chamber, slide forward, dry fire into the berm, you are good. :D

Yes Extremist, why couldn't you rack the slide and close it by hand?

You can, sorry, as long as you show and empty chamber you can let it close on it's own, or ease it forward as long as you dry fire into the berm.

Regards,
James

[Dr.Rob]

Do it all you want, it's the kind of thing that keeps gunsmiths in business.

[adweisbe]

Do it all you want, it's the kind of thing that keeps gunsmiths in business.
I always thought free hand rotary tools were responsible for that.

[Peter M. Eick]

Only by absolute accident. Meaning it happened by accident once but I will try to never let it happen again.

[f451]

A friend of mine is a gunsmith who shoots in competition with a "race" .45 with comp and all the goodies. He built a carry gun for me and I asked the same question. He said that the gun is designed to cycle a shell with the trigger pulled as when you fire it and it cycles. When the slide runs forward with the trigger not pulled, it causes excesive wear on the sear mechanism. He pulls the trigger and lets slide down easily:scrutiny: . I don't pull trigger but I do let it slide easy.

For competition, you have to abide by there rules and are supposed to be able to aford any problems that come up. I think that taking it easy on an empty chamber just kinda makes sense.:D

[Geronimo45]

In honor of this thread, I think I'll drop the slide home a dozen times tomorrow.

I'll also wear a Hawaiian shirt.

HA!