New Zealand Citizen Do I Have the Same Gun Rights as You?


January 7, 2003, 06:12 PM
Being an immigrant to the United States of America, who is NOT a citizen do I (or should I) have the same (gun) rights as you?

What do you think? :D

The question obviously applies to all non-citizen immigrant to the US of A.
Not just loveable Kiwis!


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January 7, 2003, 06:23 PM
I don't believe so....not if you're here on a visa anyways. Not sure though. Have you applied for citizenship?

Double Naught Spy
January 7, 2003, 06:25 PM
Well, you can buy and own firearms if you were not admitted to the US under a non-immigrant visa.

You can get a CHL in Texas if you meet the requirements:
Q: If I am a legal resident alien, can I get a license?
A: Under federal law, aliens who have been admitted to the U.S. under a non-immigrant visa are not qualified to purchase a handgun and therefore do not qualify for a license. As long as you were not admitted under a non-immigrant visa and are a legal resident of Texas, you may qualify.

So, there are differences, but generally speaking you it is possible to have many of the same rights.

Greg L
January 7, 2003, 06:38 PM
If you're not a citizen and wish to buy a gun you MUST (according to my FFL newsletter that I just got yesterday so it was on the top of the "file and forget" pile :D (I've got a C&R so 99% of the stuff in there doesn't apply to me)) provide your Alien # or Admission # on the form 4473. If you don't the FFL can't sell to you. That applies to someone who's not in a nonimmigrant status (ie someone who isn't just here for a week or two although they can purchase something if they have a hunting license :confused: ). If you're here on a nonimmigrant status then nothing for you (unless you are hunting). I'm not totally sure, govt regulations are written to be confusing it seems like at times. I think that for a US citizen the SSN# on the form is optional although I always put mine on there to make the background check go through faster.

CCW laws probably are different in different states with regards to aliens but I would guess that they would be a little stricter.

Hope this helps,


January 7, 2003, 07:04 PM
Stand aside... As a fellow Kiwi let me set you straight.

Should we have the same rights?

In my opinion, and applying the plain reading of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, absolutely! There is no article limiting natural rights to Citizens of the US. The Bill of Rights enumerates natural rights of man (the People) so they can not be dependant on where you were born. Certain things were limited to citizens of the United States (voting, certain political positions) but the Bill of Rights is not limited to Americans.

Just because corrupt courts, lying politicians and bureaucrats have parsed the meaning of "The People" to "only U.S. Citizens" does not mean it is true. Maybe someday the sheeple will realize that.


January 7, 2003, 07:31 PM
Ranting and Raving from a jail cell because you interperted somthing different from the courts is not a productive way to spend your limited time on earth.

In purely idealistic terms I agree with you:D

In real day to day terms I would say be careful of what you tell others just because it would be a shame to turn a peacful visit into a nightmare based on reading plain english in the Constitution:p

January 7, 2003, 08:07 PM
Coltdriver- I know that.

I gleaned from HS/LD's post that he is here as an immigrant. Luckily at this point in time the human right to defend one's life is not with-held from legal, permanent residents.

I can actually support laws barring illegal aliens from constitutional protections, because by violating the immigration laws he/she has already flouted the law. Criminals forfeit rights.

(a VERY law-abiding immigrant with more guns than I would be PERMITTED to have if I was still in NZ)

January 7, 2003, 08:21 PM
As a legal resident alien (i.e. Green Card holder) one has the same firearms ownership rights under Federal law as any U.S. citizen. One is also a member of the Militia, in its classic legal definition. However, some states (not all) restrict their CCW permits to citizens only. As for buying firearms, same procedure as for any citizen, except that since shortly after 9/11, one has to provide one's Alien Registration Number on the Form 4473, so that the INS can confirm that you're a legal alien. This typically means that your approval will be delayed until the additional check can be done.

January 7, 2003, 08:34 PM
Oh BTW I have firearms and CCW permits from multiple states.

Just curious as to how people felt about non-citizens exercising their rights.


January 7, 2003, 09:00 PM
As long as you are here legal & all you should get the same rights we do. After all most of our ancesters were forigners once.:D

January 7, 2003, 10:12 PM
Heck, I think folks from Tierra del Fuego to Trondheim, Bogota to Beijing, all God's chilluns got those rights. It's a shame that most aren't allowed to use them.

January 7, 2003, 10:19 PM
New Zealand Citizen SHOULD I Have the Same Gun Rights as You?

Should you?

As a fellow human you have the same rights to a gun as the rest of us, American or not.

The constitution of the United States does not give me the right to own a gun ... all the 2nd amendment does is tell the government that they have no right to prevent me from owning one (not that they are paying attention though).

Self defense is a basic human right ... therefore ownership of the tools is part of the exercise of that right.

January 8, 2003, 03:53 AM
I concur :D.

You'd have to see the movie "Catch Me if You Can"

Double Naught Spy
January 8, 2003, 10:49 AM
Gentlemen, the Constitution does not just apply to citizens of the USA, but people within the boundaries of the USA. A New Zealander has just as much right to free speech as a person born here, for example. As such, it would seem that a New Zealander should have just as much right to firearms as people born here or naturalized, but that simply is not the case. Similarly, the Constitution does not say anything about committing a felony as being grounds from prevention ownership of firearms, but it is.

As Zundfolge pointed out, the Constitution does not give you the right to own firearms. It doesn't state who the owners are.

As for self defense being a basic right, that seems in debate as per location in the world. Ownership of the tools is part of exercising that right. Sort of. Just because you have a perceived or given right of self defense does not mean that you get to own or possess whatever tools you deem necessary to exercise that right. We get to own many small arms in the US, but personally I would rather a fully operational tank, such as an Abrams, but that is not allowed.

January 8, 2003, 12:22 PM
Do you have the same rights? Not here in MA you don't.

January 8, 2003, 12:28 PM
Of course, neither do US citizens in MA, apparently. ;)

January 9, 2003, 09:08 AM
Tamara, true enough :mad:. But aliens have even less rights in MA than those of us citizens who reside in-country.

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