Guns and alchohol consumption - Poll


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bear71
May 3, 2007, 12:50 PM
Please find attached a poll regarding the use of firearms in combination with alchoholic beverages and your opportunity to share your level of tolerance regarding said combination.

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Biker
May 3, 2007, 12:52 PM
I see no poll.

Biker

SuperNaut
May 3, 2007, 12:53 PM
Glug-glug-glug...:)

bear71
May 3, 2007, 01:01 PM
Did it get up there for ya', biker?

Biker
May 3, 2007, 01:03 PM
Yessir...*burp*.

Biker:)

30 cal slob
May 3, 2007, 01:07 PM
well, to be honest with you guys, the only time i've seen folks drinking and in possession of firearms ... are cops.

shaggycat
May 3, 2007, 01:09 PM
Just as I don't condone drinking and driving, nor do I condone drinking and shooting.

DogBonz
May 3, 2007, 01:12 PM
While I never mix shooting and booze, I do like me drink. None of your choices mentioned that "yeah, I like booze, but not mixed with guns".

Dr. Dickie
May 3, 2007, 01:16 PM
I'm with DogBonz.
I have a glass of wine with dinner every night. I do not drink and shoot.

bear71
May 3, 2007, 01:16 PM
This option is available meaning your tolerance for the combination of guns and alchohol.

"Never a drop, it's disgusting behavior I don't condone."

Addtiionally there is an option for utter sobriety. Perhaps you do not think it is disgusting but if you were tolerate a partner using alchhol, choice two would apply.

bear71
May 3, 2007, 01:17 PM
Dickie,

This option certainly doesn't apply then,

"I don't drink, none of my friends do, never have, never will, period."

But how about the first option?

Biker
May 3, 2007, 01:18 PM
in a Sidecar...I'm 6'1" and 190lbs. Three brews makes me legally drunk. I'm here to tell ya that three brews gets me no more drunk than three pops or three glasses of water. It's a useless law. There are laws prohibiting certain sex acts in my State that my wife and I break on a regular basis. Hell, if 'they' knew the extent of those sexual transgressions, me and the Ol' lady would get the death penalty.
Last night on my 3:00 am walk, I peed under a tree in the local park (but I did it responsibly.:cool: ).

What's Right and Wrong doesn't necessarily coincide with what The State deems to be so.

Hooookaaaayyyy...I'm better now.:)

Biker

ny32182
May 3, 2007, 01:20 PM
I will often have a beer or three while watching a movie and cleaning after a range trip. Room cleared of ammo and gun dissassembled. Thats it; I would never drink before shooting. What is the point in that? I like to shoot as well as I can, and drinking beforehand, even if it were safe, is not conducive to doing that. I even try to avoid caffiene before shooting.

bear71
May 3, 2007, 01:21 PM
You make a valid point biker, three beers and you might as well be drinking iced tea.

BrianB
May 3, 2007, 01:22 PM
Alcohol and firearms is like a drunk airline pilot. VERY bad news. I've lost 2 friends/acquaintances growing up because (a) Somebody was drinking and (b) Firearms were present. Go have the beers AFTER shooting, but never while carrying.

FireArmFan
May 3, 2007, 01:23 PM
Guns and alcohol just plain don't mix. It isn't a problem for me since I don't drink anyways. I wont be of legal drinking age for 3 months but that doesn't stop most people anyways. but even later this summer when I turn 21 I don't really plan to drink anyways. I've seen too many drunken idiots for it to appeal to me. I don't feel like i'm missing out on anything. That said, I have nothing against people who drink, as long as they do it responsibly, Hence no drinking and guns.

SuperNaut
May 3, 2007, 01:26 PM
Beer in Utah is 3.2%, so keep that in mind.

I drink and shoot, but I've never shot while drunk. Either the beer gets put away or the gun gets put away.

Technosavant
May 3, 2007, 01:29 PM
Alcohol and guns don't mix, no matter how much a person can handle. One beer won't make a dent in my sobriety, but if I'm carrying, I consume NO alcohol.

One the alcohol comes out, the guns go away.

jlbraun
May 3, 2007, 01:43 PM
Might I point out that some states consider CCW and drinking OK as long as you fall below the legal limit for motor vehicle operation.

helpless
May 3, 2007, 01:47 PM
I will have a beer while at home on occasion. now that i have my ccw, i carry everyplace i go. so no drinking, no bars, no clubs...

JohnBT
May 3, 2007, 02:02 PM
Drinking and shooting just ain't the same since they started up with those worthless aluminum beer cans. :) The 3-piece steel cans made great targets and you could launch them with a firecracker for aerial targets.

http://www.cancentral.com/brochure/images/23Im06.jpg

glockman19
May 3, 2007, 02:02 PM
Drinking and firing guns DO NOT MIX. First off I may have a glass or two of wine with dinner, or a cold beer on a hot day. otherwise I don't drink or do drugs. Especially when handeling fire arms.

My only experience in this situation was recently. A guy I know, husband of my wife's friend, He invited his friend to come shooting with us. He had a nice Colt 1911 said he was holding it for a friend who was in the service. He then says, "Can I borrow some money for breakfast", so I give him a $20. He leaves and comes back with a paper bag with a 12 pack and change. I say, "You're not going to drink & shoot are you?", he responds , "sure Why not". At the range smelling of beer the Range offices is standing behind him as he violates almost every range safety rule. The officer gives him a quick lession in proper gun handling and after that he takes 3 more shots and sits down for the next hour and a half while we finish our shooting. All the time hounding us as to when we can leave. Good thing we took separate cars and he drove with the other guy. they leave I finish my session.

I tell the guy before he leaves he not only shouldn't fire a gun he should not be in posession of one especially one that does not legelly belong to him. Then the fool asks if I want to buy it for $800.

I'm so glad he didn't hurt anyone or himself.

Titan6
May 3, 2007, 02:08 PM
Firearms and alcohol, what could go wrong? Oh yeah, everything.....

Biker
May 3, 2007, 02:08 PM
That boy was an idiot, Glockman, I wouldn't shoot with him either.

Biker

delta53
May 3, 2007, 02:11 PM
:evil:

American_Pit_Bull
May 3, 2007, 02:12 PM
I will drink a serving of alcohol while out to dinner with my wife... I am armed and I am driving home.

If a person is responsible enough to know their limits (in this case a very small limit) then it is acceptable. A 200lb. man drinking one beer is the equivalent to my wife taking a shot of cough syrup.

"Zero tolerance rules" are created for people that lack common sense and self restraint.

I have had my BAC tested, using a federally approved device, after drinking two servings of alcohol with dinner.
My BAC was 0.01... No impairment is present at that level.

19-3Ben
May 3, 2007, 02:17 PM
I'm with DogBonz. I like a good drink. No doubt about it. But I don't get drunk. I actually just drink because of the drink. Not for the effect. I may have, let's say 2-3 drinks a week total. Rarely more, commonly less.

I also CCW everywhere I go. Even at home, I always have guns nearby. If I just have one drink, I don't bother to put them all away. usually I will put all but one, just so that I have one in case I need it. I know for a fact that one drink does not inhibit, slow me down, or do anything else to me.
If I have more than one drink, all guns and ammo get locked up. 2 drinks will STILL have absolutely no effect on me. But I don't take chances. Guns and booze ar a bad mix. period.

BrianB
May 3, 2007, 02:22 PM
I agree that some folks are responsible and can have just 1 or 2 and be fine. But we're talking about firearms here. We follow the 4 rules ALL the time, not just when the gun is loaded, right? I'd rather be 100% sure I'm safe and forgo the acid reflux.

03Shadowbob
May 3, 2007, 02:22 PM
I don't condone drinking and shooting for obvious reasons but when I think of drinking, I think of having more than 4 or 5 beers. In years past, I would say I have been "legally drunk" and fired a gun before however, legally doesn't mean anything when 2 beers in an hour makes me legally drunk.

MrDig
May 3, 2007, 02:28 PM
I have no problem with people drinking. I have no problem with people shooting firearms. I have a problem with people doing both in conjunction with one another.
I am for the record an Alcoholic. I am certain that I have handled firearms Extremely Hung Over, So Hung over I was quite likely still Legally Intoxicated. I learned at a young age from very wise uncles If you are drinking don't handle firearms. But they never said anything about the night before.
Thank God I never hurt anybody and Thank God I am sober Today

pax
May 3, 2007, 02:31 PM
Idiots are idiots, drunk or sober.

Idiots should never handle guns.

Some smart folks become idiots after swallowing a single drop of demon rum.

Idiots should never handle guns.

pax

sansone
May 3, 2007, 02:31 PM
I'm reading posts and wondering if all are answering honestly. I'm 52yrs old and know exactly when feeling impaired. my favorite pastime is when my good old buddy comes over with his 10/22 and a tiny cooler. we split the sixpack of ice cold beer while shooting holes in the empty ones. when his cooler is empty(3 each) we PUT AWAY the 10/22's. Sometimes I go inside and get more cold ones(the guns are gone). after this weekend ritual we can face another week of labors. :evil: ok, flame me now

The Canuck
May 3, 2007, 02:51 PM
Hey, where's the "me and my buddies will go for a few beers after the range, but not before"?

Taurus 66
May 3, 2007, 03:03 PM
DON'T DRINK AND SHOOT!

The recoil might make you spill your beer.

Deavis
May 3, 2007, 03:07 PM
ahh yes, the moral weighting in question asking. The poll is worded like a VPC or NRA mailing. Gallup would not be happy.

Go have the beers AFTER shooting, but never while carrying

Why wasn't that an option? To each his own. If you can handle it, fine. If you screw up, I'll be the first to send you to jail with my vote on a jury. Until you screw up, your choice.

MilsurpShooter
May 3, 2007, 03:07 PM
I'm 6 foot 2 on the upper end of 260 pounds. I don't drink often, sometimes I'll have a Jack and Coke, sometimes I'll have a beer as I'm on my computer and it's getting near bed. It's rare that I drink to get drunk, I never liked the buzzed/drunk feeling personally. Anyhow, if I have one beer, it's an automatic hour wait. I won't drive home if I can help it at all actually. Overly cautious, perhaps but I've volunteered at a hospital and seen way to many drunk driving horror stories.

All said and done, I'll never drink alcohol and shoot, my personal belief. I may, very rarely, have one while cleaning however. And that's only after a few certain rules are met. Gun is verified unloaded and ammo is stored in it's proper container (I've a few locking toolboxes that I store it all in). Keys are out of my pocket and on the key hook up stairs. Pretty much the only access to brass is the once fired, re-sized stuff that's not re-loaded yet. I personally look at drinking and shooting the same as drunken driving.

Again, my own personal feelings on it not meant to offend anyone who might.

Deanimator
May 3, 2007, 03:10 PM
Last year, the club to which I belong 86ed a new member for showing up so drunk he actually dropped his firearm on the floor. He wasn run off the range and his dues check returned to him.

Shortly thereafter he made the news by being arrested for drunk driving with several loaded firearms in his car. He was a dentist. If I'm not mistaken, he was being investigated for practicing dentistry while intoxicated.

We don't tolerate drinking and shooting. I consider our club and range the best in Cuyahoga County. One person shot through stupidity, and I could end up having to use one of the essentially unsupervised public ranges.

kellyj00
May 3, 2007, 03:21 PM
alcohol and fishing go along almost as well as alcohol and target practice.

I wouldn't shoot while 'drunk' but I don't see any problem with a little backwoods target practice and a few drinks.

I would say it's not safe, but I've done it many many times and don't consider it a big deal. If you're with someone irresponsible, however...definitely want to get them off the beer when they start talking about shooting things that are unsafe or if they start to lose respect for the power of a bullet, like pointing the gun in unsafe directions.

It's best to drink between shooting, rather than while you're pulling the trigger. After a few magazines have a beer while reloading and bs'ing while you're sitting on the tailgate, then get back to it.

Shooting is a casual thing between us though, if we were shooting distance or tactical practice then alcohol would just ruin the practice. Putting holes in milk jugs after a bud light or two is just good fun.

edit: if you're going to the range, then drinking before hand just isn't a good idea. In an area where folks might be opposed to your alcohol consumption while shooting is just disrespectful. You should respect the rights of everyone interested in shooting sports and take your beer/gun combo out to the backwoods or an open field somewhere where you pose no risk to anyone who isn't drinking.

morcoth
May 3, 2007, 03:37 PM
I used to drink socialy, now I carry, havent had a drink in years, really dont miss it. Would I target shoot drunk? Never, just try to play pool drunk, without touching the table, same situation, but instead of loseing a buck, someone loses thier life.

To all those that "dont mind" or "can handle it", have a nice day, far away.

Nuff said

Morcoth

Biker
May 3, 2007, 03:43 PM
Fair enough. I get the Quaker Oats guy's share. As Martha would say, "That's a *good thing*!"

Biker:)

ArfinGreebly
May 3, 2007, 03:54 PM
As usual, it's almost not possible to craft a survey that has every possible answer.

I don't drink. (Certain holidays, certain wines, certain circumstances excepted.)

Some of my friends do.

Some of them are incoherent after a glass of wine or two.

Some of them are fine after a sixpack.

The ones I shoot with are always in command of their faculties, whether there's been a beer or three or none.

Never been to the range with alcohol. Probably won't either.

If Jim the contractor wants to go shooting after most of a sixpack, I'm cool with that. If Joe the teacher wants to go shooting after a glass of wine, I'm sending him home -- and his wife will drive.

A man's gotta know his limitations.

R33P3R
May 3, 2007, 03:55 PM
I don't go out of my way to drink and shoot, but up the mountains the sunday before opening of whitetail, we almost always shoot in while having a few.

mmissile
May 3, 2007, 04:00 PM
I'll tie one on after shooting, and in an appropriate place. I don't think consumption and firearms go together at all. Too mant accidental dicharges of firearms, without the distraction.

.cheese.
May 3, 2007, 04:05 PM
why is there no option for "I like chocolate milk!" ??

beaucoup ammo
May 3, 2007, 04:28 PM
I don't care for the options offered. For that reason, I didn't cast a vote. I haven't had a drink or tobacco since 1-2-'96. I don't think it's disgusting, and many friends do drink..I drive! Very popular guy in that respect!:O)

I firmly believe that guns and alcohol, marihuchee or anything else that alters your senses... prescription drugs for example..do not mix.

That's my rule of thumb..don't drink and plink!

SoCalShooter
May 3, 2007, 04:35 PM
Well if you dont drink the beer what are ya gonna have to shoot at?

hso
May 3, 2007, 04:59 PM
The poll should include No drinking until after the shooting is done and you'd get a lot clearer responses.

possum
May 3, 2007, 04:59 PM
i couldn't really vote to the exact truth because it wasn't an option but i voted for the one that best describes me. i drank once after i got back from iraq the first time and i swore i would never do it again. i do not think it is disgusting by no means, but just something i don't do. even if i was a drinker i wouldn't drank and shoot, to me it is like drinking and driving. just my .02

trueblue1776
May 3, 2007, 05:04 PM
WOOOOOO HOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

-POW-POW-POW-

My AR-15 has a bottle opener on the quad rail and a whiskey flask in the stock.

My barrel mounted 37mm launcher is really a water bong.

CajunBass
May 3, 2007, 05:16 PM
I don't drink alcohol. At all.

SteelyNirvana
May 3, 2007, 05:27 PM
When I was in my late teens and living with my grandma I would sometimes get buzzed and do some plinking out in the yard and in a safe area. I guess I still do pop some off when I'm buzzed but thats on New Years at the stroke of midnight and I'm sure I'm not alone doing this. I seldom ever drink any more, seems like when I got in my mid 20's something in me just lost interest in partying. I never have liked the idea of mixing alcohol and guns if can be deadly if you are not completely aware of what you are doing. I do like to drink a G&T on the weekends but when I do I have enough self-restraint to leave my guns alone.

Brian Craig

SuperNaut
May 3, 2007, 05:36 PM
I know that alcoholics have difficulty with this but, do we really need to point out the difference between having a beer and getting drunk?

Knotthead
May 3, 2007, 05:39 PM
I drink but lightly these days, and never before handling loaded firearms. I like a glass of wine with dinner or a little bourbon over ice before bedtime, but my days of proving my manhood by showing how much I can drink are long gone. So put me down as one who says that guns and alcohol don't mix and couldn't find an appropriate response on the poll.

Bob M.
May 3, 2007, 05:42 PM
The only thing thats loaded is my gun.

GRB
May 3, 2007, 06:03 PM
bear71,

I did not answer the poll because as far as I read them, you gave some really poor limitations of your poll choices. I drink, I do not think it disgusting, but I make it a habit not to drink before shooting or handling firearms. Afterall that is one of the cardinal rules of firearms safety that Jeff Cooper conveniently forgot to include in his version of the rules of firearms safety:

ALCOHOL, recreational drugs, many prescription drugs, and gunpowder (firearms) don't mix!

So while I do drink, I never drink alcohol, or take prescription drugs that effect my abilities, before shooting. As for recreational drugs, I just say "no".

All the best,
Glenn B

Cosmoline
May 3, 2007, 06:11 PM
POORLY WORDED POLL

What do you mean by "USE"?? I will never drink at the range, but I don't lock up my only means of defense because I'm having a glass of wine with dinner.

do we really need to point out the difference between having a beer and getting drunk

For some there is no difference. I knew one woman who would start drinking even a pilsner and wake up days later. I've been drinking beer with meals since I was in my early teens, so the whole concept of going on benders is bizarre to me. It's just a food. But for others, the devil really does live in the bottle.

fast eddie
May 3, 2007, 06:13 PM
I didn't vote either. I never drink and shoot in combination.

Larry Ashcraft
May 3, 2007, 06:23 PM
I've been known to drink a beer or two on the porch on Saturday afternoon, and then shooting some pasture clays out in the field with a friend or my son. My scores suffer some, but nobody is endangered.

There's a difference between drinking and being drunk. I'm no fan of zero tolerance.

MJZZZ
May 3, 2007, 06:24 PM
No beer allowed around guns before or during shooting. No ammo allowed around guns while cleaning, but plenty of beer. Mike

heypete
May 3, 2007, 06:28 PM
Not really an option for it, but I'll go out and shoot with friends, and then have a beer while cleaning the guns. Certainly not enough to become intoxicated or even tipsy (hooray for being 210lbs and 6' tall...serves bit of an alcohol buffer), but it's pleasant to sit around with friends and have a beer.

If I'm going to the range in the evening, I might have a beer or two earlier in the day (say, while watching TV or something), but it'll be completely out of my system by the time I go and shoot. I won't shoot when I have any alcohol in my system, even though I know I could easily handle one or two beers...just seems silly for me to take even the slightest risk.

Carl N. Brown
May 3, 2007, 06:31 PM
While I am not a tea-totaler, I have not drank
in three weeks (take it or leave it).

Alcohol tends to make me stupid(er) so its either
shoot sober, or drink after the guns are cleaned
and put away. If I have been light drinking--beer with
lunch for example--it is still three-four hours before I
feel safe to drive or shoot. Driving or shooting under
the influence proves nothing to me but stupidity.

Essex County
May 3, 2007, 06:52 PM
I'm not much of a drinker, but I've shot some of my best groups after a COUPLE of beers. Research for Elmer Kieths opinion on this subject. Essex

Im283
May 3, 2007, 07:02 PM
I have had a drink or ten before and during shooting. That was when I was young and foolish I simply did not fear it nor care. :evil:

Now that I am older but yet still foolish I may have a drink or two but never, ever while shooting or handling a weapon. If I am shooting there is really no time to be holding a beer can or cocktail anyway. I use both hands on the weapon normally and both hands for loading. Kind of makes it a non-issue.

I am not sure but I would think if you discharged a weapon even in self defense and you were lit up there may be some issues.

Someone pointed out the difference between having a beer and being drunk. Sounds like justification to me.

BlkHawk73
May 3, 2007, 07:05 PM
In my opinion, anyone voting for the last three choices has NO business having a firearm if they can have that much of a lack of respect for themselves and others and the lack of simple common sense. :fire:

sm
May 3, 2007, 07:16 PM
JohnBT wrote:
Drinking and shooting just ain't the same since they started up with those worthless aluminum beer cans. :) The 3-piece steel cans made great targets and you could launch them with a firecracker for aerial targets.

Well, I gotta agree and admit my age as well. :D

I took my last drink in March of '84.
While I probably spilled more booze than some have partaken of up until I was 28 years old in 1984, drinking and shooting is not something I did.

Before a shoot, especially a serious shoot, I did not drink.
After the shooting was done for the tourney, and the shin-dig thrown and no guns.
Yep. Party ain't over till the Keg floats...or there is nothing but empty in a bottle of fine Scotch,or Bourbon.
Neat, maybe a splash of water, or an ice cube, never both ice and water...takes up too much room for the booze in a glass.

SuperNaut
May 3, 2007, 07:24 PM
In my opinion, anyone voting for the last three choices has NO business having a firearm if they can have that much of a lack of respect for themselves and others and the lack of simple common sense.

Well, I interpreted option 6: "The guys get together after several beers and sometimes shoot." as; several beers among the group of guys, not several beers for each guy in the group.

There is a world of difference between the two, but your outrage is charming.:)

Plink
May 3, 2007, 07:31 PM
I never drink before or during shooting. I won't be around those who do, for safety reasons. Now afterward, heck yeah! Bring on the cold ones. But any impairment when handling weapons just isn't a good idea, in my opinion.

RPCVYemen
May 3, 2007, 07:40 PM
I know that alcoholics have difficulty with this but, do we really need to point out the difference between having a beer and getting drunk?

Do you really think that alcoholics have difficulty with the difference between having a beer and getting drunk? I am an alcoholic who's been sober a little over 21 years. I still know the difference - it's hours of sweating and cussing until the dang liquore store opens. :)

We know drunk from not drunk. Even towards the very end, when we don't know much else, we know that. When we find ourselves in the sate of being not drunk, we will do 'bout anything (lie, cheat, steal, end relationships, etc. ) to achieve the state of being drunk. Kowing that difference is sorta fundamental to being an alcoholic - like knowing how to quack is fundamental to being a duck. :)

The only note I will add is that some folks who say that drinking 3 beers is like drinking "iced tea" might be pretty surprised if they measured their reaction time/judgement. I saw a video on the news one night, and it turns out that objective measurements show the effects of surprisingly small amounts of alcohol.

In the video - it had something to do with lowering the BAC for DUIs in NC - the Highway Patrol set up an obsctacle course with traffic cones. Then they invited in a bunch of legislators. They asked legislators drink a drink, blow a breathalizer, and then drive the course. The Highway Patrol would count how many traffic cones got knocked over, and ask the legislators to repreat the cycle. As I recall, the effects started to show up with one or two drinks, while the subjects still looked, talked, and reported feeling absolutely sober. [Of course, it must be noted these legislators all being fine Baptists, none of them had so much as smelled a drop of liquor in their lives before the test].

Now I understand that fine legislators in my state may not be the sharpest tools in the shed, but the results were still surprising.

Me, I never saw the point in three beers (unless they were in the beginnig, middle, or end of a case - or you were wanting to ease into a fifth). Each to his own.

I personally can't mix living with drinking, much less shooting and drinking.

Mike

SuperNaut
May 3, 2007, 07:48 PM
I still know the difference - it's hours of sweating and cussing until the dang liquore store opens.

LOL!

I meant that alcoholics have difficulty with having just a beer, I just phrased it weird.

I should have written: I know that alcoholics have difficulty having just one beer, but for the rest of us, do we really need to point out the difference between having a beer and getting drunk?

Heh-heh, I knew what I meant!

JohnBT
May 3, 2007, 07:58 PM
Heck, it wasn't all that long ago that drinking and driving was legal in Virginia if you didn't exceed the BAC limit. Maybe 10 or 20 years. Of course, the roads weren't as crowded back then.

As of 2003 when the following was published...

"Drunk driving may be a crime in every state, but drinking while driving is still legal in three of them Indiana, Mississippi and Montana -- as long as the driver is sober."

I suppose zero tolerance will catch up with them too eventually. Now, if we can just do something about the cell phones. ;)

John

DixieTexian
May 3, 2007, 08:00 PM
ALCOHOL, recreational drugs, many prescription drugs, and gunpowder don't mix!
Sure they do, but I bet it wouldn't taste very good. I may have a few beers while/before I am shooting. But I won't do it at a public place or with people who I don't know 100% are safe with guns. Now, I have to admit when I first got my cap and ball revolver, before I ever even got powder for it I got drunk and played with it while watching a John Wayne movie. The only damage I did was peening the nipples because I didn't know that dry firing could cause that.

Clipper
May 3, 2007, 09:59 PM
I like the taste of beer, but I'm also carrying if I'm wearing pants. What to do??? Hey, Nonalcoholic beer! Problem is, I like Rum & Coke too, so until Baccardi starts bottling NA Rum, I hafta wait until I'm home for the night before I can have any.

Biker
May 3, 2007, 10:08 PM
Fact is boys and girls, beer ain't really drinkin'.

Biker:)

115grfmj
May 3, 2007, 10:13 PM
I didn't vote!.......somethin' about guns and alcoho:uhoh: l.....great by themselves....but not together:scrutiny:

xd45gaper
May 3, 2007, 10:16 PM
where is the i consume beer/whiskey but never mix them with firearms dot...

MKEITH
May 3, 2007, 10:25 PM
Won't even clean my guns while having a cold beer. Even if I'm not feeling any effect from the alchohol, it is still in my system,and I know first hand what kind of stupid stuff alchohol can make me do.Just not worth the risk. I mean how would i explain it to my wife when my beretta turns up pregnant?

jbauch357
May 3, 2007, 10:29 PM
I barely drink any more.....

...but I used to always bring masses of beer when I would go shooting. One of the best activities for Sunday was to go back to the bar for breakfast and bloody maries and then head to the woods for drunken shooting fun. Some friends would bring non-drinkable green stinky substances too. We all grew up around guns and handle them safely (or so it seemed to us at the time) in any state of mind - nobody ever got hurt. On the other hand I have friends I won't go shooting with at all because of their complete lack of safety - realistically they are idiots...

Nitrogen
May 3, 2007, 10:39 PM
Chose, "never a drop, its disgusting behavior I don't condone" and i'm assuming you mean drinking before a shoot, not drinking in general.

I will NOT drink before shooting. In fact, I very rarely drink at all; the most being maybe one drink with a meal.

RPCVYemen
May 3, 2007, 11:03 PM
I should have written: I know that alcoholics have difficulty having just one beer, but for the rest of us, do we really need to point out the difference between having a beer and getting drunk?


I knew that - I was just playing.

Alcoholics should definitely not drink and shoot, that's for sure.

Mike

FCFC
May 3, 2007, 11:29 PM
Alcoholics should definitely not drink and shoot, that's for sure.

Alkies shouldn't drink at all, regardless of what they're doing. :uhoh:


I never drink before, during or after shooting. That's because I don't drink at all. But I do talk on my cell phone while shooting. Sometimes they're important calls but most of the time it's just casual chit-chat. I try never to get into an extended argument while I'm on the phone and shooting. So I usually just let the other person win the argument. I don't want my concentration upset by some silly point or other.

Unless it's about politics or sports. Then, I just can't let it go. But, even if I'm strenuously discussing (not arguing), I follow all gun safety rules and practices. I've never had an accident doing this.

PAC 762
May 3, 2007, 11:30 PM
I didn't vote. I never shoot after drinking, but I host several build parties a year and my friends and I drink more than a few while building guns. No ammo near us, of course.

heron
May 3, 2007, 11:34 PM
Cinco de Mayo is coming up, and this is such a timely topic . . . I've heard that the instructions for behavior on that holiday are, "put the bottle in your mouth, point the barrel in a safe direction."
And by the way, I do not drink and shoot. These days, in fact, I hardly ever drink at all, except for the 4 oz or so of wine with dinner.

PistolNewbie
May 3, 2007, 11:39 PM
Jesus H. Christ in a Sidecar...I'm 6'1" and 190lbs.
:what: That is the first time I've heard that one! :D I finally (at age 56) gave up the alcohol at the suggestion of my cardiologist. Did I ever drive under the influence--hell yes! Did I ever handle/shoot guns under the influence--not on your life. Guess that makes me a candidate for sainthood! :neener:

PistolNewbie
May 3, 2007, 11:47 PM
Alcohol, tobacco, firearms?? The US Government seems to think they mix very well! :D (Sorry--I couldn't help it!) :neener:

yhtomit
May 3, 2007, 11:48 PM
My alco tolerance is low, both in me (I'll have the occasional cider, stretched over an hour or so, or the occasional 1/4 goblet of wine, stretched over dinner), and moreso in others (I don't want to shoot with anyone who I think is even a smidgeon impaired).

I would not object to someone sipping a cold beer on a hot day while shooting -- the way I drink my cider, even with no real tolerance, I never feel even the slightest alco-buzz. But I'd rather for simplicity never to feel obligated to so much as enter a conversation about it. A lot easier to say "none at the range, thanks."

So when I build the range at my castle, that will likely be one of my rules ...

timothy

Biker
May 3, 2007, 11:53 PM
This is a good time for me to say *KNOW THY SELF!* If you think you shouldn't drink or take pills or whatever while packin', don't. What is so hard to understand about this concept? If you can and wish to, do. If you can't, don't. It really is that simple.

Biker

Blackfork
May 3, 2007, 11:57 PM
Or not. Can take it or leave it. I would NEVER drink and shoot.

Anyone cracking a cold beer around the Texas highpower ranges would be frowned on. Just isn't done. Shotgunners different I hear, but I'm not a shotgunner.

I order a mixed drink every year at the Texas Competitors dinner at Mon Ami at Camp Perry and I am definitely in the very small minority. I had a martini a few years ago there and most folks didn't know what it was. That's a good crowd to be in.

Couldn't find a selection on the poll that reflected my stance.

Larry Ashcraft
May 3, 2007, 11:59 PM
And this is as good a time as ever to say it, it's not:
alchohol
It's "alcohol".

Sorry, just one of my pet peeves.

Daemon688
May 4, 2007, 12:02 AM
Drinking and guns don't mix. If anything happens, you'll have a heck of a time explaining that one to the judge.

TheArchDuke
May 4, 2007, 12:25 AM
Where's the "I drink less than moderately, I'd say sparingly, I've certainly never been drunk. But I never drink before shooting...ever" option?

Gaucho Gringo
May 4, 2007, 01:00 AM
Guns & Alcohol is why the Wild West was wild. Too many armed people under the influence of liquid courage. Not a good thing for anybody. I like to tip a few as well as anyone but the guns are not there. I like my guns too much to have any reason to loose them. Just my $.02 worth

buck00
May 4, 2007, 01:09 AM
Never a drop, it's disgusting behavior I don't condone.


I don't drink a drop of alcohol when I shoot. However, there was a night where after drinking moderately- I was put into an emergency where I had to handle and fire a firearm.

So while these polls are fun on THR, in the real world sometimes the situation dictates the action.

RCouch
May 4, 2007, 02:43 AM
Think the poll is ridiculous because it leaves no room for a person that drinks once in a while but never while shooting. Make the poll realistic and not so slanted and I might answer it. Or maybe not.

collateral
May 4, 2007, 02:47 AM
I know of several people from my city that ended up dying due to their combining firearms and beer. I will never do it, I will never condone it. IMO it truly is disgusting behavior.

If you want to drink, go ahead. But leave your gun where it belongs, out of your hands until you sober up.

chemist308
May 4, 2007, 04:57 AM
You don't drink and drive. Why on earth would you drink and shoot?! There's a reason you can't take a gun in a bar. Saloons of yesteryear understood it all to well.

Plink
May 4, 2007, 05:39 AM
Am I the only one that finds it alarming and saddening to see so many "I've shot while drunk and/or stoned" votes?

Cosmoline
May 4, 2007, 06:38 AM
The poll is a disaster. There's no way to know what to think from it.

LadySmith
May 4, 2007, 07:01 AM
I know first hand what kind of stupid stuff alchohol can make me do.Just not worth the risk. I mean how would i explain it to my wife when my beretta turns up pregnant?
:D :D :D
I don't mix guns & alcohol.

strat81
May 4, 2007, 11:07 AM
I love beer (Guinness!) and I love guns. But not together. EVER.

.cheese.
May 4, 2007, 11:30 AM
I'm confused with the responses..... it goes from, I drink while or before shooting, to "I won't drink at all" with no inbetween?

I drink occasionally. I only once got drunk, and it was by accident because I drank a scotch on the rocks with a somewhat rare scotch whisky that was 59% alcohol instead of the 43% most are (I didn't figure it out until the next day). It was terrible. I hated getting drunk.

I just enjoy the taste usually of a good scotch, and the little bit of buzz that follows doesn't hurt.

When shooting is involved, it's just like driving to me. If you did drink before, you wait quite a while until you're satisfied that you're sober..... well, unless you're drinking in a bar and somebody strolls in shooting... but then again you shouldn't be armed there anyways in most states.

I don't think I've had anything to drink before shooting. It wasn't even intentional, it's just that shooting is a daytime thing and drinking is a nighttime thing with friends or a girl, and some nice conversation.

I just don't see that working out with guns (at the range):

Me: So how was your week at work?

BANG!

My friend: Oh, it was ok, the boss is getting annoying with his constant nagging though.... and those TPS reports are going to be the death of me. (takes a drink of beer)

BANG!

Me: TPS reports? (drinks some scotch)

BANG!

My friend: Don't ask. It's the dumbest thing. What about you? (takes a drink of beer)

BANG!

Me: Ehhh... fine.... somebody keeps stealing my stapler though.

BANG!

Silvanus
May 4, 2007, 11:35 AM
I never drink when I know I'm going to the range later. I know I'm not drunk after a couple of beers, but I still wouldn't drive or shoot.

I've fired a gun on a mixture of alchohol and some drugs.

Nine votes already:eek:

with no inbetween?

I guess that would be :Never a drop, it's disgusting behavior I don't condone. (even though it sounds rather harsh)

Because, there is also : I don't drink, none of my friends do, never have, never will, period.

THAT is no drinking at all.

At least that's how I see the poll...

tinygnat219
May 4, 2007, 11:37 AM
Alcohol and Firearms don't mix. Look what it did to the ATF! :D

mlandman
May 4, 2007, 11:45 AM
Damn...I mis-voted! Chalk it up to dyslexia.

Dyslexics of the world untie!

move one from the last choice to the first...

bear71
May 4, 2007, 12:30 PM
"Your level of tolerance Firearms and alchoholl use

"Never a drop, it's disgusting behavior I don't condone."

To the several complainers in the thread, what don't you understand about this above statement, this poll is not about whether or not you drink or your habits involving drinking, this poll is about Firearms and alchohol use.

Your answers like "I drink but not while I shoot, cry, cry," are not applicaple in this thread.

shadowalker
May 4, 2007, 12:55 PM
I don't mind people who have a few drinks every now and then, I drink now and then, done responsibly it is a good time but drinking and doing any other activity that is likely to be deadly is an unacceptable choice.

Speaking of which a friend of mine was at a public range last weekend and saw a group of people drive up, unload some guns and slam a case of beer on the hood of the car, decided it was time to leave.

Eyesac
May 4, 2007, 01:48 PM
Who actually knows someone that has had a bad incident with booze and guns?

.cheese.
May 4, 2007, 03:13 PM
bear71 - chill out... sheesh.

I didn't realize that there was a distinction between those two... they seemed the same to me.

Like I stated, I drink (well... I used to), but never have before shooting.... and so far it has had nothing to do with moral conviction - but rather the fact that I don't shoot at night, specifically Friday and Saturday night. Also, by "drink" I literally mean, I have a drink.... not that I binge drink.

If I were for some reason to be faced one day with drinking before shooting, I would probably try to wait at least 6 hours between.

However, this issue will never come up because I can't drink at all as of a few months ago. Apparently my pancreas has an issue that gives me pancreatitis if I drink any alcohol. Who woulda thunk? So in reality, if I were faced with drinking before shooting, by the time I would be shooting, I'd already be in the ER in serious pain.... so it's impossible. - I don't suppose there's a voting option for that huh? ;)

MinnMooney
May 4, 2007, 04:26 PM
The 1st and 5th choices seem pretty similar to me. Combining their percentages gives about 3/4 of the voters.
I have 80 acres of prime hunting land and lots of my friends love to come up here and hunt. My hard and fast rule : If you have a drink, you won't hunt 'til tomorrow. No ifs, ands or buts. They abide because they know I mean it and they won't hunt here anymore if they break the drink rule.

IllHunter
May 4, 2007, 04:41 PM
The first guy who invited me to go hunting, was a vendor who often wined and dined me with an emphasis on the wine. He was fond of "brown loud-mouths", I knew them as Manhattans. I brought a portable bar on our first hunting trip together and it was never opened. We rose before light and were out in the freezing dark to find a place in the woods and when we returned after dark it was all we could do to clean up and fix food and prepare for the morning, repeat,repeat,repeat, pack up and leave.
I realized on the drive home that he took all his pursuits seriously and was the most accomplished hunter I've ever known. It hasn't been the same since he passed and I thank you for bringing up this thought.
Alcohol and gunpowder mix as well as electricity and water.

1BLINDREF
May 4, 2007, 04:59 PM
I won't even drink a beer with dinner if I'm planning on going to the range that night after dinner - and I have a beer meister :D
I might have a beer afterwards when my guns are tucked safely away :rolleyes:

kellyj00
May 4, 2007, 05:03 PM
you can drink and shoot.
you can drink and drive.

but never ever drive and shoot.

SpeedAKL
May 4, 2007, 05:20 PM
Guns + alcohol = bad, bad idea. I don't mind drinking and I certainly like shooting, but doing them at the same time is asking for trouble. A couple friends of mine just had a hole blown through their apartment floor and 9 bullet-holes in the ceiling because the guy living below them fired off a 12-gauge while drunk, stoned, and "cleaning his gun" (how you can properly clean a shotgun and not notice the shell inside is beyond me - at least when sober). Alcohol doesn't mix with a lot of activities, really.

Richmond
May 4, 2007, 05:44 PM
Who actually knows someone that has had a bad incident with booze and guns?

Of course, it may just be because I am a criminal trial lawyer, but I know hundreds of folks that fit the bill! :rolleyes:

Seriously, from murder to illegal carry cases, I have seen plenty of examples of why alcohol and firearms do not mix.

Plink
May 4, 2007, 06:00 PM
I love beer (Guinness!) and I love guns. But not together. EVER.

+1 for Guinness! My favorite. After shooting, not before, of course. :)

Geronimo45
May 4, 2007, 06:09 PM
Don't drink at the moment, haven't in the past, probably won't in the future. If you can drink and be safe with your guns, I don't mind.

jbauch357
May 4, 2007, 06:10 PM
Who actually knows someone that has had a bad incident with booze and guns?

Well, one time we were up shooting (after a golf tournament where we all got heavily intoxicated) and ran into some guys with all sorts of fun wepons. One of these was an AR15 chambered in .308 that was handed off to me to give a try. I was so hammered that once I took aim (even on a knee) I would begin to loose my balance and have to correct back up straight multiple times before I could get a shot off. I think after severe effort I got a couple shots off and handed it back due to complete inability to shoot straight any more.

So not really an incident - but a waste of ammo and I didn't really get to try the AR15 out like I wanted to...

Like I said earlier, I don't drink much any more...

obxned
May 4, 2007, 06:44 PM
I admit to having violated the rule of 'no booze or no guns' many, many years ago. I would never do it today. It just hain't the smart thing to do!

bear71
December 20, 2007, 05:54 PM
Interesting results. Curious if anyone else would like to add their comments or make a vote. The poll ended up almost exactly as I expected. The majority being no drink while shooting however each other option has received plenty of votes too.

It takes all kinds to make the world go around so said Confucious.

Legionnaire
December 20, 2007, 06:28 PM
I'm an occasional beer drinker with a preference for dark beers and bitters. But never in conjunction with shooting. Even after a successful hunting trip, I'll tip one only after the guns are cleaned and put away.

beaucoup ammo
December 20, 2007, 06:32 PM
Not to sound like a "prude" but I wouldn't drink and shoot for several reasons. Legal, living with guilt if something went wrong, etc.

That's not to say many a Shiner Bock hasn't been downed After the shooting is over! :O)

anygunanywhere
December 20, 2007, 06:32 PM
Of course when anyone drinks they give up their second amendment right to keep and bear arms and must defend themselves with their extreme martial art kempo grav maga hai karate or a stick. Maybe they can call the cops who will be there immediately when yhey need them.

Every night when the wife and I share a bottle of cab we both unload all of the weapons in the house so we do not start to play with our guns and shoot each other. I will call the cops so they will park in front of my house to protect me while I drink since I give up my 2A rights when the cork comes out.

I really don't understand how those folks in Pennsylvania can drink a beer in a bar and still pack. Some states allow it but I think we need tougher laws to eliminate this foolishness because no one needs to have the right to drink and pack.

Anygun

Legionnaire
December 20, 2007, 06:36 PM
^^ :D

Cougfan2
December 20, 2007, 06:37 PM
I'll throw back a few toddys after the guns are put up for the day, but never mix alcohol and shooting. Had to stop hunting with a guy because I saw him standing on the front porch of our hunting cabin pass shooting geese while drinking a Bloody Mary. Wouldn't even hunt in the same vicinity after that. :mad:

Cannonball888
December 20, 2007, 06:58 PM
I don't shoot when I've been drinking.

davera
December 20, 2007, 07:21 PM
There wasn't an appropriate category for "never shoot after drinking" but a friend and I will routinely admire, handle, work the actions (over and over, repeatedly proving they are not loaded) of our milsurp collection after a cocktail or two.

PAPACHUCK
December 20, 2007, 07:24 PM
I like a Crown & 7 every here and there. I don't ever get drunk. I don't like losing control of my senses. I carry a pistol whenever I'm awake(execpt in the shower), I don't feel I should lose the right of self-protection because I had a drink. That said, I do not condone being drunk (loss of self-control) and having a firearm on you. I have never gone shooting after drinking. I only drink at the end of the day, and only at my home. Bars aren't for me, so the restriction on carrying in a bar is irrelavant to me. I would also leave a shooting event if I saw someone arrive with a case of beer.

Urbana John
December 20, 2007, 07:36 PM
I'm a "little" guilty of breaking that rule!!

I might have a couple of beers BEFORE target practice---helps me relax, or I think it does and

the empty cans make cheap targets!!

I won't leave my property after drinking a few to go shooting some where else.

I'd NEVER go hunting after a couple of beers, but then I don't hunt much anymore---just groundhogs with in walking distance.

Biker
December 20, 2007, 07:49 PM
I'm sitting here with a .45 LC revolver on my left ankle and a beer in front of me as I type this.

Been doing it since God was a boy and I ain't shot nobody by accident yet.

*Know Thyself*.

Biker:)

BobbyQuickdraw
December 20, 2007, 08:06 PM
I don't really see a choice that describes me. I drink and shoot separately. I definitely consume my fair share of alcohol, in fact I'm having a glass of wine right now. I'm a big whiskey fan and a beer drinker.

However, I don't shoot while "drunk." That said, if I were at an outdoor range, I wouldn't think it entirely inappropriate to fire a gun after a drink or two, tops.

But that would have to be the very rare occasion. When the gun is out, the alcohol is away. When the alcohol is out, the gun is away.

Ed Ames
December 20, 2007, 08:26 PM
I read threads like this and I can't help thinking, "MAN Americans are weird!"

You think you are responsible enough to carry a gun around but you aren't responsible enough to set your own alcohol consumption limit? That makes NO sense. If you are a responsible person you should know how you respond to alcohol and you should limit your behavior accordingly.

Of course, I've always thought this was one of the more apt movie quotes:
I distrust a man who says "when." If he's got to be careful not to drink too much, it's because he's not to be trusted when he does.

And, for the record, I rarely drink. Doesn't mean I shouldn't, can't, or won't.

Grizfire
December 20, 2007, 08:30 PM
My first trap league had an indoor seating area with a window where you could buy ammo and ...beer. So I, just like everyone else in the room would have a few beers as we waited for our names to be called. Of course I would not get hammered, just one or two so as not to get a bad score...I shot 25 on several occasions and just missed the new shooter award.

albeit, I was very surprised to see this and would think it was illegal, but this was Montana!!

I miss Montana

rickomatic
December 20, 2007, 08:55 PM
".....hey man...hold my beer, I wanna show you something really cool!..."


Even a small amount of alcohol inhibits ones thinking and hand to eye coordination. I don't care how well you can "hold your liquor". You don't have to be drunk to make a once in a (shortened) lifetime mistake. It's just not worth it. Things that are normally second nature (the 4 laws) can get overlooked quickly with even a small dose of alcohol.

Boris Barowski
December 20, 2007, 09:11 PM
My buddy drinks a couple of beers after shooting, I don't, before or after.

I don't drink before because I have to shoot, I don't drink after because I have to drive :p

If I have a beer while not driving or shooting (sounds like a drive-by :p) I enjoy a La trappe Quadruple (10) or Duvel (8.5).

a couple of those and shooting skills get worse :)

Biker
December 20, 2007, 09:40 PM
*Burp*.

Biker:)

benEzra
December 20, 2007, 09:50 PM
I don't see a choice that fits me. I don't currently drink, but have absolutely nothing against it, and if the mood strikes me I may pick up a bottle of wine or champagne for a special occasion. I don't see a poll option for people like me who don't happen to drink, but who don't vow absolute abstinence or view drinking with disdain. I'm OK with alcohol use, but have no taste for it; like the Wierd Al song, I'll stick to my Earl Gray tea...

Wayne02
December 20, 2007, 09:51 PM
http://images.businessweek.com/ss/06/10/makers_mark/image/14.jpg

SuperNaut
December 20, 2007, 09:57 PM
I remember this ol' thread, and I'm still burping right along with Biker.

Drink =/= Drunk

HOME DEPOT GEORGE
December 20, 2007, 10:06 PM
Like ben ezra said I dont drink I gave it up a while ago. I was one of those people who didnt have the luxury of just a few drinks. Hell the people at the jim beam distillery probably got their christmas bonuses from my wallet. Anyway I have no problem with drinking, when I take groups on offshore trips they can bring as much beer as they want but firearms and booze dont mix. And in some places I think its a crime to be under the influence and posses a firearm.

kd7nqb
December 20, 2007, 10:22 PM
I do drink and I do shoot but never at the same time. I also will not drink AT ALL if I am CCW'ing.

CNYCacher
December 20, 2007, 10:35 PM
There is not a poll choice that I feel represents me accurately so I will just type it out.

I drink occasionally, usually one or two drinks over the course of a few hours. I am usually carrying at the time only because I am usually carrying at any given time.

You gotta know your limits.

gunsmith
December 20, 2007, 10:51 PM
but I have friends who do, I've been out shooting machine guns
with people who were drinking, if they get to drunk they stop shooting.

I wish the poll had an option for people like me, I don't drink and don't make moral judgments if people do.

Officers'Wife
December 20, 2007, 11:02 PM
Ok,

I don't drink, never have and unlikely to ever drink. However, one of the basic 'life lessons' I had drilled into me growing up was everybody has a God given right to frick up their lives as they see fit.

But...

When operating a deadly weapon, no matter if that weapon is a automobile, drag crane, farm tractor or firearm an impaired operator is an insult to the peace and dignity of a civilized society. In my opinion, any operator of the aforementioned weapons with ANY intoxicant in their system should be removed from society (i.e. incarcerated) for no less than five years. No less than twenty if an injury results and life if death results. His fault, their fault, nobody's fault. Half a beer, a small glass of wine or one toke. No mercy, no excuses no tolerance.

Selena

Biker
December 20, 2007, 11:14 PM
Well Selena, I'm glad you're not in charge. There are some remarks I'm refusing to make, as bad as I want to.

Biker

The Deer Hunter
December 20, 2007, 11:34 PM
I don't drink and shoot, well at least I don't plan to (bad guys...). But I do drink.

doc2rn
December 20, 2007, 11:44 PM
I like an occassional drink, but when I am strapped, I just say "NO". I will never violate this rule of mine, and that is often how I become the designated driver. I don't mind that at all (see sig line).

Officers'Wife
December 20, 2007, 11:51 PM
Hi Biker,

There are some remarks I'm refusing to make, as bad as I want to.

It's OK, I've heard them before, FWIW on the driving side of it I've a history of working toward providing free rides for those that have been drinking and have sense enough not to operate a vehicle. I also was active in having the BAC in Indiana lowered to .8. In the case of a firearm... Once again, can you tell me honestly that the 'reasonable man' will say that a person with alcohol in their systems are equally careful than one completely sober? Are we as citizens not duty bound to handle the weapons we choose to possess in a manner that is in the best interests of our neighbors as well as ourselves?

Selena

bear71
December 21, 2007, 12:21 AM
Dear Biker,

Had I ever told you that you are the king of cool, the thrilla gorilla, the butterfly floating, bee stinging mo-fo of a poster?

Ed Ames
December 21, 2007, 12:35 AM
The problem with the peculiar American attitude towards alcohol is that it creates a false impression that alcohol is some super-powerful remover of sense and inhibition. Suddenly people use it as an excuse. More than that, many experience placebo intoxication because they are told that 0.08% BAC or whatever is enough to leave you stumbling or unable to make sound judgments. They use mild intoxication as an excuse.

That does nobody any favors.

I've seen people, grown adults, act like idiots after being served one glass of of non-alcoholic beer. Nobody told them it was non-alcoholic and they had an expectation of how they should behave after a beer and so they played it out. I've seen other people exercise extremely good judgment, write excellent computer programs, write beautiful prose, and do other extremely difficult intellectual and physical tasks, sometimes under high stress, after three or four shots of hard liquor in an hour.

You know the difference? The people who become stumble-drunks after a near-beer are fools who have bought into the "alcohol is a super drug" BS. They want an excuse to act like idiots and the idea of alcohol gives them that excuse. The other people were responsible adults who knew, even while intoxicated, what was important. They were (and are) of good character and sound judgment drunk or sober. I'd much rather have 100 of them around me with a few beers in them than 1 idiot looking for an excuse to act out who hadn't had a beer in 30 years.

Trying to keep everyone from drinking and doing other things because some people use drink as an excuse to act like idiots is no different than barring everyone from owning firearms because some people go on shooting sprees. It is irrational and counterproductive.

As for people who have never imbibed and never will... I had my first beer exactly where everyone should have their first drink: At home, at the dinner table, with my parents. I was a young teen and yeah, they broke laws by giving me that beer. But you know what? The laws are wrong. Just as wrong as a law saying that a parent couldn't teach their child to shoot a gun would be. I learned responsible drinking the way many people around here say they learned responsible gun handling. I learned that drink is not an excuse, and drink is not an automatic destroyer of judgment, and that you can and should be responsible and sensible when drinking.

There are people who think that the fact that you want to carry a loaded gun is evidence that you are not responsible enough to do so. There are people who think that the fact that you want a drink is evidence that you are not responsible enough to have one. Both positions are based in ignorance and fear.

If you are ignorant, if you don't drink because you don't know what happens or don't trust yourself with even one drink, you aren't a mature and responsible adult and you can't be trusted to participate in the adult world. I don't trust you because you don't trust yourself. Grow up.

As for the people who have problems... There are a few alcoholics. There are also a few people who use guns to cause harm to themselves and others. Deal with those individuals as individuals and don't penalize the majority who are responsible and mentally healthy.

Oh... and
I also was active in having the BAC in Indiana lowered to .8.

That would actually be an increase. Standard BAC for LEGAL (not actual) intoxication is .08 in most states.

bear71
December 21, 2007, 12:41 AM
Good post, Ed. Thanks for taking the time to draft it.

10-Ring
December 21, 2007, 03:08 AM
Nope, IMO, drinking & shooting don't mix!

SCBradley
December 21, 2007, 03:16 AM
I never drink and do anything.

I'm only 27, but I spent 7 of those years having to wake up and call friends to find out what I had done the past few days; or pawn more of my stuff for vodka; or wonder why my bed was wet; or call the police to ask if they look for lost cars as well as stolen ones. I was probably sober for less than 2 months all told in that 7 years. The worst part was all the voting democrat.

I haven't drank since my two year old was born, and I haven't had a cigarette since January 1 2007.

Feanaro
December 21, 2007, 03:49 AM
Never had a big taste for alcohol, which is probably a good thing since alcoholism runs in both sides of my family. Like, every branch from here back to that mountain with the tablets.

But if I do have a drink, I don't lock the kitchen knives, firearms, car keys, and potential poisons in the bathroom, after I've taped foam to all the sharp edges of the world. In fact, I've got about three jiggers worth of the hard stuff in me right now. I've never done anything stupid under the influence(of alcohol, don't give me powerful pain killers). I don't have any problem with firearms and alcohol being mixed, if everyone understands their limits. Some people don't. Some people are also dangerous just by virtue of drawing in air.

That would actually be an increase.

Not to mention that .8 would be a few hundredths past death for most people.

Vector
December 21, 2007, 11:10 AM
I could not really vote in this poll because it is a little vague. A "few beers" could mean different things to different people. Now if one of the choices was a couple of beers or 1 or 2 beers, then that is where I could have voted at either a range or area with proper backstop.

BryanP
December 21, 2007, 11:16 AM
I don't see an option for "I'll occasionally have a beer after I'm done shooting."

I have never even handled one of my firearms while under the influence of alcohol. After I'm done and the toys are all put away maybe.

Walkalong
December 21, 2007, 11:25 AM
Your level of tolerance Firearms and alchohol use Never a drop, it's disgusting behavior I don't condone.

My partner has a couple beers, no problem.

My partner and I shoot after a few beers, no big deal.

I'll have a few beers alone sometimes before shooting.

I don't drink, none of my friends do, never have, never will, period.

The guys get together after several beers and sometimes shoot.

I've been legally "drunk" and fired a gun.

I've fired a gun on a mixture of alchohol and some drugs.

None of the above.

I do not drink, but don't mind others who do.

When I did drink, I would never drink around firearms, as well as other activities that required one to be fully alert.
I will not tolerate folks who do, because it is dumb. (Well, Real Dumb)

meef
December 21, 2007, 11:33 AM
Personally, I take every opportunity I find to get roaring, falling-down drunk while wearing/carrying all of the firearms I can manage.

I make it a point to wave them especially aggressively at women and little children and other assorted helpless beings.

It just makes me feel so gooooood.

I love polls like this, I do.

:cool:

macFarlaine
December 21, 2007, 11:38 AM
I am regarded as un cool and miserable because I don't drink.People in the UK drink to excess,never seen or noticed drinking around firearms though.

Biker
December 21, 2007, 11:44 AM
Selena...

You have your beliefs and I have mine. You're not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours.

However, your post only addresses alcohol. What about people who take Prozac or prescription pain meds? The effects on the human body are much the same as alcohol. Should these people be denied the right to self defense?

Biker

EdLaver
December 21, 2007, 11:50 AM
I have never shot under the influence of alcohol. I have however shot at 300 yards under the influence of prescription cough/flu syrup. :D

bear71
December 21, 2007, 11:58 AM
"Your level of tolerance Firearms and alchohol use"

Available option 1 - Never a drop, it's disgusting behavior I don't condone.

"None of the above.

I do not drink, but don't mind others who do."

This poll is about drinking and firearms, not what you or your friends do when firearms are not present. That is off topic.

"When I did drink, I would never drink around firearms, as well as other activities that required one to be fully alert.
I will not tolerate folks who do, because it is dumb. (Well, Real Dumb)"

Sounds to me like the bolden option above applies to you. Why did you feel it necessary to type "None of the above" when the first entry clearly applies to you?

riverdog
December 21, 2007, 12:21 PM
Regardless, I can't vote. I drink and don't consider it a disgusting behavior, but not while I'm shooting or while I have a gun out. The poll skips that option.

bear71
December 21, 2007, 12:25 PM
The poll question:

"Your level of tolerance Firearms and alchohol use"

Available option 1 - Never a drop, it's disgusting behavior I don't condone.

Mr White
December 21, 2007, 01:04 PM
Ed Ames, Great Post!!! You said what I what thinking so much better than I could have.

The people who posted that one should never even touch a firearm if they've had so much as one drink are pretty extreme IMO. Does that mean that if I go to a restaurant, have 2-3 beers in an hour or more, then get confronted by a thug in the parking lot, I should just give him my wallet and let him rape my wife? I don't think so. Just because I have a few beers, I don't forfeit my right to self-protection, nor do I endanger your safety.

While I don't usually drink before going to the range, I downed a few beers before a range trip once, for the sake of science. Here's some amazing news!!! I didn't wave the guns around and threaten anyone who looked at me. I didn't try to start up a game of Russian Roulette with my Hi Power. I didn't break any of the 4 Rules. I didn't shoot wildly at anything that moved. I didn't suddenly turn into some stumbling, irresponsible, danger to society, no more than the act of carrying a gun turns one into a psychopathic killer.

I shot a little bit worse than usual but I put 10/13 into CoM of my target at 10 yds with my Hi Power. The other 3 were head shots. I shot a 20 round slowfire prone stage with my AR. I usually shoot high 180s to low 190s in this stage in matches. I shot low 180s that day.

Yes, excessive amounts of alcohol will make you lose control, nobody's arguing that, except for one thing I can think of, nothing is good in excess. But a few drinks in moderation won't turn you into a raving idiot, unless you have a raving idiot already inside, waiting for an excuse to get out.

frankcostanza
December 21, 2007, 01:15 PM
it it possible to drink a couple beers and NOT shoot a gun?

Mulliganpaintdee
December 21, 2007, 01:16 PM
i like to have a couple of beers AFTER I go shooting

macFarlaine
December 21, 2007, 01:19 PM
Should you be drinking a couple of beers and driving to the range.To experiment with alchohol,driving,or shooting is immature.

GOV
December 21, 2007, 01:28 PM
I'm with Biker and Ed Ames on this one! The all or nothing attitude gets you all or nothing. Not having ammo in the same room while you are cleaning the gun sounds like the ammo will magically insert itself into the chamber then fire magically. Hmmmmmm.......... Sounds like the anti's argument, doesn't it!!!!! :banghead: The illogical logic!!!:fire:

The_Shootist
December 21, 2007, 01:45 PM
....don't mix PERIOD! If I'm going to drink, then I don't handle a gun/go to the range/CCW etc.

In fact, my mom is eyeing me stangely lately when I take her out to dinner and just have an ice tea. :scrutiny:

bear71
December 21, 2007, 01:56 PM
Outstanding post Mr. White!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for your contribution.

Officers'Wife
December 21, 2007, 06:00 PM
Hi Biker,

You have your beliefs and I have mine. You're not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours.

Agreed, and I will defend your right to be as wrong as you care to be. :)


However, your post only addresses alcohol. What about people who take Prozac or prescription pain meds?

Any instrument capable of causing deadly damage requires an operator that is 100%. From Meth or steroids that tend to increase aggression to cough syrup that will effect reaction time and judgment.

As for Prozac- would someone suffering depression bad enough to be prescribed medicine care enough to defend themselves?

Selena

SuperNaut
December 21, 2007, 06:03 PM
Any instrument capable of causing deadly damage requires an operator that is 100%

Would this exclude the physically handicapped and/or aged?

Hokkmike
December 21, 2007, 06:08 PM
[X] I don't drink. My friends do sometimes, but they never drink before or during shooting.

Jamie C.
December 21, 2007, 06:13 PM
Man I'm glad I didn't participate in this poll.... :D


J.C.

P.S. I'm having a drink right now... Canadian Mist and Coke. Have yet to feel the urge to shoot anything.

But it is still early yet.... :evil: ;) :p

Ed Ames
December 21, 2007, 06:21 PM
As SuperNaut pointed out, the "requires 100%" concept is absurd. Who decides what is 100%? "Oh, you have the flu? You should go to prison for 5 years if you handle a gun!" How is that right?

Intoxication is not an absolute. Neither is perfect health.

To say that a woman who has been to a bar or family picnic where alcohol is served, and is attacked by a rapist, and uses a gun to defend herself, MUST be shown "zero tolerance" and thrown in prison for 5 years "no exceptions" seems to show a sort of disproportionality that borders on religious fanaticism. It's really no different than the muslims who throw women in prison for reporting rapes. It's a mistake based on a... well, a religious conviction rather than any rational position. Within that sect of Islamic Faith throwing a rape victim in prison is compassionate because you aren't stoning her. Within that sect of tetotalist religion throwing a drunk woman who avoided rape in prison for 5 years is equally compassionate. In the real world both views are wrong.


Anyone who thinks "zero tolerance" is the answer hasn't thought the question through. Doesn't matter what the question is...

Jamie C.
December 21, 2007, 06:29 PM
Y'know, I'd be willing to bet that no one who's ever been in a violent conflict that required the use of deadly force could truly be said to be "100%" at the time simply because of stress/fear alone.



J.C.

Erik
December 21, 2007, 07:13 PM
I think of it like other potentially dangerous activities, i.e. driving, etc: don't do it while impaired. I rely on the local laws to determine "impaired."

Erik - who does not consume alcohol while or before driving, carrying or shooting as a general rule.

---

Another who can't find an answer close to mine among the poll.

zxcvbob
December 21, 2007, 07:52 PM
That doesnt look like a poll, it looks like an exercise in self-righteousness.

If I were to humor it, I can't find any answers that fit. Sorry. I'm voting "None of the above"

bear71
December 21, 2007, 08:15 PM
Then kindly post elsewhere or refrain from whining.

Black Adder LXX
December 21, 2007, 08:18 PM
I had to go to the first choice, since it resembled my attitude toward drinking and shooting. I do have a beer every once and a while though.

Biker
December 21, 2007, 09:15 PM
bear71...

Bob's post wasn't whining - it was an accurate observation.

Someone die and make you a mod?

Biker

mekender
December 21, 2007, 09:19 PM
Never a drop, it's disgusting behavior I don't condone.

had to answer that way, but ill throw in a *.... i drink like a fish... but ill NEVER handle firearms while drinking

CAVHOOAH
December 21, 2007, 09:27 PM
Well heres my .02. I agree with bobs observation, and Bikers comment. Nothing wrong with having a few brews or shots when a man/woman wants too. No one here should be looked down on for grown folks having a nip every now and then. Shooting firearms while drunk is a different story though. I feel that as long as a fella is a responsible drinker, ie.. a FEW beers (one and hour or so) while shooting, I dont have a problem with it. If I know the man to be an uncontrollable stumbling drunk, I will suggest he put them up or ill leave. I personally dont have a problem with moderation, someone who dosnt have to get blitzed everytime they start to drink. CCW carry is asking for it while drinking though.

Officers'Wife
December 21, 2007, 09:33 PM
Hi Supernaut,

Would this exclude the physically handicapped and/or aged?

The ancients and handicapped would be at 100% until they started taking drugs that downgraded them now wouldn't they? I do not expect perfection from anyone, I do expect them to behave responsibly. I'm not doing a Carrie Nation here, I'm just saying if you drink leave your firearms in the closet and the car keys in your pocket. You seem to be implying you support the habit of shooting while intoxicated. Please let me know which areas you shoot in so I can avoid them. Thank you in advance.

Selena

JerryM
December 21, 2007, 09:49 PM
I have never seen a single benefit in drinking alcohol. I have seen, or am aware of, many auto accidents, gun accidents, violent acts, and tragic consequences in marriages, health, and personal lives as a result of drinking alcohol.

Every alcoholic, drunk driver, and accidental shooter was sure he was mature, had good judgment in knowing his limit, and could handled his drinking, but they did not.

I do not drink, and believe that a CHL holder that takes one drink while carrying should lose his license. The same for driving and drinking.

Jerry

meef
December 21, 2007, 10:17 PM
:rolleyes:


Oh brother.



Threadlock...... please!

bear71
December 21, 2007, 10:24 PM
"bear71...

Bob's post wasn't whining - it was an accurate observation.

Someone die and make you a mod?

Biker"

400+ people found a suitable entry from the many options. Those that cannot read the title header "firearms and alcohol consumption" are either reading impaired or whining.

This thread is not about everyday average drinking habits...that would be off topic for this thread and this forum in general. I have a right to request that responses to a thread I have created remain on topic.

bear71
December 21, 2007, 10:29 PM
"Threadlock...... please!"

4,100+ views and you want a threadlock? Sounds like censorship to me because it doesn't personally suit you.

Jorg Nysgerrig
December 21, 2007, 10:36 PM
I have never seen a single benefit in drinking alcohol. I have seen, or am aware of, many auto accidents, gun accidents, violent acts, and tragic consequences in marriages, health, and personal lives as a result of drinking alcohol.
Funny, a lot of arguments from the antigun crowd start out with them declaring there's not a single benefit to civilian gun ownership, but they are certainly aware of all the tragedies guns cause. If you've never seen a single benefit, that's because you are just like an antigun person who has never gone shooting and can't imagine why anyone would want one of those nasty things.

I've addressed the supposed lack of benefit in an earlier thread.
What about the people who enjoy the way they think a glass of wine enhances a good meal?

How about those guys that find nothing more refreshing than a cold beer after working in the yard all afternoon?

Perhaps you could tell that to the chef who imparts a particular flavor to a meal by using alcohol?

But those only merely aesthetic arguments for why alcohol might not "only do bad things" and can be easily dismissed. I mean, who cares if someone likes it?

Fortunately, there's some pretty good medical research stating that moderate consumption of alcohol is actually a good thing. Here's a good link to start with: http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/AlcoholAndHealth.html

While one can find studies which disagree (many of which show the effects of abuse), the majority of the evidence supports moderate consumption as a positive factor in overall longevity.

Just like most gun owners are safe, law-abiding citizens; most people who imbibe aren't drunks.



I also posted this awhile back in another thread, but it seems like it would fit here:

Why is that when someone commits a crime involving a gun, the problem is the criminal and not the easy access to guns, but if someone commits a crime involving alcohol, it's always the accessibility to the booze.

Guns don't make people into violent criminals, do they? What would make you think that a bottle of beer there would force someone to become a drunk?

Just about every argument in favor of controlling alcohol is used to promote gun control.

But, the only purpose of alcohol is to get drunk and avoid life's problems!
The only purpose of guns is to kill.

The perceived benefits of drinking are far outweighed by the risks of alcohol abuse.
The chance of using a gun in self defense are far outweighed by the danger of hurting a loved one.

If someone is drinking in a bad situation, it could turn violent!
If someone has a gun in a bad situation, it could turn violent!

Easy accessibility to alcohol leads to abuse!
Easy accessibility to guns leads to violence!

We shouldn't sell alcohol at grocery stores because it makes it too easy for drunks to get to it! Only state liquor agencies should sell it, that way it is properly controlled!
We shouldn't let sporting goods stores sell guns because it is too easy for bad guys to get them! Only state armories should sell them, that way they are properly controlled.

I just don't understand why so many gun folks are so quick to blame the criminal for gun-related crimes and so quick to blame the alcohol for alcohol-related crimes.

You either believe in personal responsibility or you don't.

Sadly, the only difference between many of those who call themselves liberals and many of those who call themselves conservatives is which things they want to see controlled.

My apologies for turning this slightly political. The parallels between those who blame guns for societies woes and those who blame alcohol are too strikingly similar to ignore.
Why is it that the same people who insist that packing a gun doesn't mean they are going to whip it out and shoot it at the first sign of an argument seem to think that if someone has a beer they are going to pistol-whip a puppy and then promptly drive their car through a school.

While there is no doubt that becoming drunk while carrying a firearm or shooting is a foolish choice, insisting that there be a zero-tolerance policy regarding a single drink is as absurd. While bear71's intent may have been to question the views of those regarding alcohol and firearms, it's become quite clear this thread has shifted from that to a chance for the teetotalers to condemn those who choose to imbibe.

Officers'Wife
December 21, 2007, 10:56 PM
Hi Jerry,

Proverbs 31-6
Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

Everything has it's place, even alcohol. It's only a danger when it's abused. But that goes for everything in life as well.

Selena

LAK
December 21, 2007, 10:59 PM
I am with the Old World traditions in such matters. A shot of good scotch, brandy or a small glass of wine on an autumn or winter shoot. The bottom line is do not drink more than you can handle - if you can not control yourself do not drink at all.

bear71
December 21, 2007, 11:07 PM
Very reasonable post, LAK. Makes sense to me. Sounds like you aren't shackled by a black or white type mindset.

meef
December 22, 2007, 12:54 AM
bear71:4,100+ views and you want a threadlock? Sounds like censorship to me because it doesn't personally suit you.No pal, not because it doesn't personally suit me.

Because it has gotten a bit ridiculous and self righteous. Regardless of how many views it has gotten from the morbidly curious (myself included).

The holier-than-thou stuff gets old real quick.

This thread has degenerated into nothing so much as the Temperance League espousing their views for everybody else. zxcvbob said it very well in post #177. Personal opinion (and I freely admit its merely my opinion) - your reply to him sucked.

Got it?

Threadlock. Please!

SuperNaut
December 22, 2007, 01:04 AM
you seem to be implying you support the habit of shooting while intoxicated.

Only if you haven't read any of my posts in this thread.

bear71
December 22, 2007, 01:20 AM
"(and I freely admit its merely my opinion)"

You know what they say about opinions.....

meef
December 22, 2007, 01:30 AM
"(and I freely admit its merely my opinion)"

You know what they say about opinions.....Yep. And I don't suppose you are aware of what I say about self righteous posters in a thread such as this one.

They are similar.

Threadlock please!

bear71
December 22, 2007, 01:39 AM
Settle down, meefie babe....

You know what Mick Jagger had to say about that.

U cant always git wot u wont

Funny, with about 150 excellent threads going on you find yourself here pleading.

meef
December 22, 2007, 01:50 AM
bear71:Settle down, meefie babe....

You know what Mick Jagger had to say about that.

U cant always git wot u wont

Funny, with about 150 excellent threads going on you find yourself here pleading.Actually bear71, what Mick said was:

"You can't always get what you want."

He was a bit more literate than you seem to exhibit.

As to settle down, I'm doing fine. How are you?

Threadlock please!

bear71
December 22, 2007, 02:01 AM
Look, meef, I'm not even sure who you are criticizing here in this thread. Me for starting it, a bunch of people who voted "not a single drop" or those that elected to choose one of the other options.

In my opinion it boils down to this. Should it be considered dangerous or irresponsible behavior for a 300 pound man to handle and discharge a firearm after he's had a 12 ounce can of 3:2 beer (that's the weak stuff in case you don't have it out west).

This thread has been popular and some interesting debates have developed. It's a sensitive subject that most people wil feel strongly about one way or another.

I, myself, don't even drink, doesn't taste good to me anymore. Back in the day I've participated in shooting excercises on private land where a bunch of guys have had a few beers apiece and commenced responsibly and enjoyably discharging firearms. It was, frankly, a non issue, much like a crew of guys might share some brews while tuning a V-8 or clearing a field with implements.

I'm curious what exactly is your complaint with the thread, it seems to have garnered significant interest from people from all walks of life.

meef
December 22, 2007, 02:17 AM
bear71:In my opinion it boils down to this.:D

I'm not going to bother to remind what you said about opinions a few posts ago.

And I'm likewise not going to continue arguing (or whatever we're doing here) with you.

I think I have stated repeatedly what I feel this thread is worth and won't bother to pitch in any more.

Enjoy.

:)

savetheclaypigeons
December 22, 2007, 02:21 AM
I have 36 gallons of wine just fermenting in the basement along with a growing wine cellar. I have over a dozen guns upstairs. I enjoy both worlds but never at the same time

jackmead
December 22, 2007, 02:35 AM
I don't drink, but I've seen a few anti-gun people that know get a little wasted at bars and drive home. :scrutiny:

Guitargod1985
December 22, 2007, 02:38 AM
I will not drink until after i'm done shooting and/or cleaning my guns. Remember, people, that the first thing alcohol impairs is judgment - not vison, not balance, but judgment.

That said, I do enjoy a few drinks from time to time. Actually, I'm having a beer right now. But I must agree that alcohol does not mix well with guns (or potato salad). I know some people that I used to work with who go to the range after smoking weed. I highly disapprove of this. Even if you can manage to be as level-headed as you are when you are sober, what happens if an accident occurs and Johnny Law wants to run a blood test for impairment?

Ultrachimp
December 22, 2007, 03:40 AM
don't drink & drive - sorta like don't drink & shoot. both make sense. it's just good gun safety.

Deavis
December 22, 2007, 05:21 AM
I see no poll.


I see loaded questions though, oh wait, I get it. I agree, moral crusading on a subject that die hard innate rights people can actually be hypocritical about. What a joy... yet again.

JerryM
December 22, 2007, 10:19 AM
HI Selena,

I don't really disagree with that post. If one can have a drink and not get drunk or suffer lessened awareness and capabilities, I have no objection.

But guns and alcohol have never "gone together" and still do not. I should not go off topic, but I have always figured if one needs alcohol to feel good then there is something wrong with him, and he should not drink.

Since you did quote Proverbs, I will state that the Bible does not prohibit drinking as long as one is not impaired. But today with all the problems that result from drinking I prefer to abstain, and believe that is the best example.

But to those who think they can drink and carry or handle a gun, they are just an accident waiting to happen. Can't you do without alcohol for a few hours or a day? The one with the poorest judgment as to his degree of impairment is the one drinking.

Regards,
Jerry

Beowolf1911
December 22, 2007, 10:26 AM
I do a Drink and Plink at my back yard range on a pretty regular bassis, no one gets hurt saftey is still there, just not so much accuracy. we get 4 or 5 guys and a case of something good. Relax kick back and have some fun with the .22's one time we tried clay birds bit that is hard with a good buzz going. As long as everyone respects my 3 range rules it is a good time. the rules are 1 be safe, 2 don't shoot anyone, and 3 don't shoot anything glass.

jad0110
December 22, 2007, 10:30 AM
That doesnt look like a poll, it looks like an exercise in self-righteousness.

If I were to humor it, I can't find any answers that fit. Sorry. I'm voting "None of the above"

Yeah, that's what I thought.

I rarely partake of alcohol these days as I CCW 24/7/365 (except at work, I am a Federal employee) and CCW in North Carolina is strictly verboten if you have ANY alcohol in your system.

And I DON'T mix the two.

corncob
December 22, 2007, 10:40 AM
Quote:
I see no poll.
I see loaded questions though, oh wait, I get it. I agree, moral crusading on a subject that die hard innate rights people can actually be hypocritical about. What a joy... yet again.


The first clue was the separation of "alcohol" and "drugs" in the answer choices. I don't trust a teetotaller. The irrational fear of "impairment" is a symptom of something wrong with our culture. Not to mention it helps sell a lot of blood pressure medication, Ritalin, and Prozac. None of us is getting out of this alive--don't take it so serious, people.

"Accidentally" shooting your shooting buddy (or killing someone with your minivan on the highway) is the same (morally AND practically) whether you've had a beer or not. I suspect most of my fellow men walk around all day with impaired judgement--something not having a beer won't help. And remember that it isn't what goes into a man's mouth that makes him unclean..., quoting my all-time personal favorite winebibber.

Cheers to you Second Amendment activists, you lovers of freedom over security!!

jaysouth
December 22, 2007, 10:48 AM
There are skeet and trap clubs that have bars. I have never shot skeet or trap at a club where alcohol was prohibited, and never seen one where shooters didn't drink a beer between rounds.

Wonder why there has never any drunken shootouts at these clubs or obscene number of gun accidents.?

Can anyone cite an alcohol related incident at one of these clubs? Some of you need to lighten up.

bear71
December 22, 2007, 11:00 AM
"And I DON'T mix the two."

You might want to select the first option, your capitalization provides emphasis! We may not have known how passionate you are about it withouth the capitalization.

DontBurnMyFlag
December 22, 2007, 11:54 AM
I never have and never will. If I go to a bar or eating establishment and Im carrying a weapon, I will not touch alcohol. If god forbid, a shooting incident occurs in a bar, I guarantee I would be given an alcohol breath-test. Any drop of alcohol in my system would act negatively in the legal proceedings sure to come.

GeezerwithGuns
December 22, 2007, 11:58 AM
I never even have a beer until the guns are all cleaned and put away.

CAVHOOAH
December 22, 2007, 12:26 PM
Amazing how many NEVER had or have a drink any time around firearms. Im calling BS on half these "never touch it" posts...HA !

Ragnar Danneskjold
December 22, 2007, 12:30 PM
I try to operate as much of my life on logic as possible. Drinking alcohol serves no purpose, and I don't find it enjoyable. So I don't drink at all, much less with guns.

I don't trust a teetotaller. The irrational fear of "impairment" is a symptom of something wrong with our culture.

I don't trust a drinker. The need for mild brain damage causing chemicals in order to have fun is a symptom of something wrong with people.

See how that works? Your opinions are not fact. Not boozing it up to have a good time is not an irrational fear. And the facts of how many problems come from impairment show that it is not an illusion. You don't trust someone because they don't need a chemical shield to protect them from real life? wow.

Officers'Wife
December 22, 2007, 12:34 PM
Hi Jerry,

But to those who think they can drink and carry or handle a gun, they are just an accident waiting to happen. Can't you do without alcohol for a few hours or a day? The one with the poorest judgment as to his degree of impairment is the one drinking.

I agree to that wholeheartly, my disagreement was the blanket statement. Nothing is all good or all bad, it's the person with the finger on the trigger that decides the outcome. Operating any machine, be it firearm, auto or chain saw while drugged - even if the person is 'macho' enough to 'handle it' is an accident looking for a place to happen. But, once the machines are put away for the night, I'll serve the drinks myself. And I make a blackberry wine that has Catholic priests send me Passover cards.

Selena

Biker
December 22, 2007, 12:35 PM
Although I normally carry every moment I'm awake, I put the guns away the moment I start on the acid and heroin - they don't mix well with guns.

Biker...*Burp*:)

bear71
December 22, 2007, 12:43 PM
"I try to operate as much of my life on logic as possible. Drinking alcohol serves no purpose, and I don't find it enjoyable. So I don't drink at all, much less with guns.


Quote:
I don't trust a teetotaller. The irrational fear of "impairment" is a symptom of something wrong with our culture.

I don't trust a drinker. The need for mild brain damage causing chemicals in order to have fun is a symptom of something wrong with people.

See how that works? Your opinions are not fact. Not boozing it up to have a good time is not an irrational fear. And the facts of how many problems come from impairment show that it is not an illusion."

You have some major issues. Outside of your small circle, the rest of the world drinks. Jesus turned water into wine. How can you not trust Jesus?

zxcvbob
December 22, 2007, 12:43 PM
In my opinion it boils down to this. Should it be considered dangerous or irresponsible behavior for a 300 pound man to handle and discharge a firearm after he's had a 12 ounce can of 3:2 beer (that's the weak stuff in case you don't have it out west).

You should have just said that in the beginning. There's not a single selection in your push poll that matches this. The thread is popular because everybody likes a good train wreck. ;)

In my case, my personal limit is 1 can (bottle) of 5% beer if I'm going to be shooting in the next hour, and 2 cans if I'm going to be driving -- and I don't do either very often at all. I have had a beer a half hour before a bullseye shooting competition once and it didn't affect my score at all. It might be interesting to try target shooting after 2 drinks and see if it makes a difference, but I'd have to violate my rule to do that. (plus I don't want to possibly blow my score)

I'm a big guy and just over 6' 6" tall. I have a high tolerance for alcohol; I am probably minimally "impaired" after 4 or 5 strong beers (just starting to feel it), but I seldom drink that much even when I'm sitting at home watching TV all evening.

bear71
December 22, 2007, 12:49 PM
"Amazing how many NEVER had or have a drink any time around firearms. Im calling BS on half these "never touch it" posts...HA !"

Yep, I'm wondering how many of these people drink the blood of Christ (fermented grapes) at communion on Sunday morning and then commence shooting up hundreds of rounds at the local.

Taking communion is drinking alcohol.

bear71
December 22, 2007, 12:53 PM
Good post, bob. The poll wasn't very scientific and I'm not conducting a study, just wanted to provide as many options as possible to cover most, if not all, situations I could think of.

TheLastBoyScout
December 22, 2007, 01:11 PM
Alcohol OR firearms.

If I'm carrying in public, I'm not drinking.

If I'm at home, my pistol goes upstairs on the dresser before I open the first beer.

By the same token, I see no problem with drinking AFTER a match, provided all weapons are secured and there's a DD.

Ragnar Danneskjold
December 22, 2007, 01:14 PM
"I try to operate as much of my life on logic as possible. Drinking alcohol serves no purpose, and I don't find it enjoyable. So I don't drink at all, much less with guns.



I don't trust a teetotaller. The irrational fear of "impairment" is a symptom of something wrong with our culture.

I don't trust a drinker. The need for mild brain damage causing chemicals in order to have fun is a symptom of something wrong with people.

See how that works? Your opinions are not fact. Not boozing it up to have a good time is not an irrational fear. And the facts of how many problems come from impairment show that it is not an illusion."

You have some major issues. Outside of your small circle, the rest of the world drinks. Jesus turned water into wine. How can you not trust Jesus?

Consider reading all of the post next time. I was pointing out that him not trusting someone who doesn't drink is just an opinionated, and not based in fact as me saying the same thing about him. He claims that not drinking MUST be based off "irrational fear". He is about as wrong as a human being can be wrong about anything. And you only calling me out for unsubstantiated claims (that were just made to show flaws in an argument, no less) and not the guy who made the first erroneous remark is highly questionable itself.

bear71
December 22, 2007, 01:26 PM
Sorry, I had a difficult time discerning what you were saying and interpreted in erroneously.

JerryM
December 22, 2007, 02:04 PM
HI Selena,

It is of interest, however, that the same passage says that wine is not for kings. Some people have too much responsibility to risk a reduction in mental abilities for decision making. Most ignore it however in my observation.

We are not kings, but have a great responsibility when carrying. Too much to drinik and carry.
I suspect you don't disagree.

I am going to let this go so all,
MERRY CHRISTMAS.

Regards,
Jerry

Eric F
December 22, 2007, 03:25 PM
There are skeet and trap clubs that have bars. I have never shot skeet or trap at a club where alcohol was prohibited, and never seen one where shooters didn't drink a beer between rounds.

Wonder why there has never any drunken shootouts at these clubs or obscene number of gun accidents.?

Thats because you have crossed into a higher more educated class of redneck

jaysouth
December 22, 2007, 04:01 PM
According to some of you alcohol nazis, I can sue my doctor any day for malpractice.

The internist tells me to have ten drinks per week. First choice is red wine, second is beer.

Any of you know something my doctor doesn't?

weisse52
December 22, 2007, 04:52 PM
My, my, my

This was / is a train wreck.

I do not drink and shoot. I have shot and than drank. In my judgement the two do not mix.

I hear the comments about not trusting those that do and not trusting those that do not.

I both cases they have an axe to grind and want to make judgements about the other based upon that belief.

I do not want to be around a drunk / impaired person with a gun, without a gun, in a car, or on foot. We make our decisons and take our chances. It is just too bad when our poor choices result in injury and death to those who did not participate in the process.

BUT, I am sure someone will disagree with this as well...

Guitargod1985
December 22, 2007, 05:04 PM
Taking communion is drinking alcohol.

Well, try telling that to a believer of transubstantiation.

DesertRat
December 22, 2007, 05:10 PM
Ah.... I think prolly 95% of us never shoot and drink at the same time. I enjoy a beer or glass of wine from time-to-time, but never in conjunction with the shooting or handling of firearms.

bear71
December 22, 2007, 05:10 PM
"transubstantiation"

Good $25 word there, GG. I hope you get a Gibson for Christmas!

Ed Ames
December 22, 2007, 05:11 PM
I hear the comments about not trusting those that do and not trusting those that do not.

Actually that's... I was going to say inaccurate but it's actually just wrong.

My own comment is (and was) that I don't trust those who don't trust themselves. Doesn't matter why or about what. I don't trust those who don't trust themselves to own a firearm, I don't trust those who don't trust themselves behind the wheel of a car, I don't trust those who don't trust themselves to drink. I don't think it's all that mysterious a position... who knows you best? You do. If you don't trust yourself, that says worlds about your trustworthiness. If even you can't trust yourself only a fool would trust you.

Participants in this thread break roughly into those who don't trust anyone including themselves (the antis), and those who do trust some people including themselves (the openminded), plus quite a few who see it as a chance to make a joke.

The root of most anti-*anything* arguments is a lack of self trust. If you don't trust yourself with ________ it is very difficult to trust anyone else. The problem is usually simple ignorance... if you've never seen how you behave holding a gun it might be reasonable to mistrust how you'd behave holding a gun. Sometimes, however, it is a psychosis and there isn't much chance of helping those people.

bear71
December 22, 2007, 05:13 PM
Desert Rat -

The title of the thread is "Guns and alcohol consumption".

If you don't condone drinking and shooting vote for the first option. It couldn't be more clear.

Guitargod1985
December 22, 2007, 05:14 PM
Good $25 word there, GG. I hope you get a Gibson for Christmas!

Yeah, I was raised in a Catholic houshold so that whole lexicon has been instilled in me.

I hope I get a Gibson, too. Doubtful, but I want an SG or a Les Paul.

That would be more suitaable for an AA forum. LOL, you crack me up.

bear71
December 22, 2007, 05:14 PM
Ed Ames for Prez! Another great post. Thanks.

doubleg
December 22, 2007, 05:20 PM
I have been drunk and shot, handled firearms. But being drunk did not effect my ability to be responsible in using them. IMO there are two type of gun handlers, ones who respect guns and their destructive abilities at all times and people who shouldn't have them.

44and45
December 22, 2007, 05:20 PM
Well, demon rum...and other harmful alcohol drinks are the cause of our not getting CCW permits here in Wisconsin.

So think the politicians wisdom that control it ever getting passed. We'll all get liquored up at our local taverns, it'll be like Dodge City or Tombstone again.

We are one of three states that don't support our right to carry...because of our cheese head Wisconsin government.

Jim

I've got a picture on my bedroom wall depicting Jesus Christ turning water into wine, hope its a good Chablis, or red table wine.

bear71
December 22, 2007, 05:24 PM
Look, 44, as a Minnesotan I'm glad you guys can't carry, it'd be like the wild west all over again!!!!!!!

Not...just kidding of course. Saddens me that our friends to the east are denied a simple and reasonable right. Good luck in the future with that.

zxcvbob
December 22, 2007, 05:30 PM
Can you imagine what it would be like after a Packers game? :evil:

BTW, Governor Doyle is the main problem, the legislature just doesn't have the balls to override his vetoes (but what do you expect from a legislature)

Vitamin G
December 22, 2007, 05:38 PM
Lump me in with the "Below the Legal Limit" crowd. If you can drive a car after 1 beer, you can protect yourself.

How many of the NEVER MIX people, feel the same way about a glass of wine at a nice italian restaurant with your lady, and then driving her home? Are you going to take a taxi to take your wife out to dinner because you might indulge?
Why is having the ability to protect yourself different than the ability to transport yourself?

Geno
December 22, 2007, 05:41 PM
I don't care that someone has a drink, but not while in possession of a firearm.

Doc2005

44and45
December 22, 2007, 05:42 PM
What do you mean after a Packers game, if we's were allowed to carry doubt the visiting teams would show up after we got liquored up at the tailgate party goers in the parking lot. :D

Hey, you Minnesotans, we never had no drunken hombres try and rob two banks at the same time...like at Northfield MN, shades of liquored up James and Dalton's gangs. But you lads were pretty good shots as some of them gang bangers stayed behind in pine boxes.

Now such gang bangers as the James & Dalton's only prove that citizens with firearms can protect a community against lawbreakers. (Gov. Doyle take note)

Jim

Eric F
December 22, 2007, 05:48 PM
Oh many a heated battle have been fought here on THR about alcohol and.......pick some thing. What have we learned absolutly nothing but there are some inteligent folks and well some not so much. And a cart load of hardheads with strong oponions but I did like this one

transubstantiation"

Good $25 word there, GG. I hope you get a Gibson for Christmas!

oh by the way where you find 4 Catholics you will likely find a 5th

busy_squirrel
December 22, 2007, 05:49 PM
FTR: I chose option 7

In fact, I know it's unpopular to say, but I'd say that those who treat guns and alcohol as mutually exclusive are basing their actions, at least partly, on fear. :uhoh:

If I avoided alcohol just because I had possesion of a gun (or a car, or a baseball bat, or gallon of bleach, or a length of rope, plastic bag, or anything else that can be used to end a life) then I'd never have any alcohol.

Impairment is a matter of degrees. I'm sure some of you have shot before when you were less than fully alert (maybe you were tired or hungover or on meds or whatever). It's silly to assume that the instant ANY alcohol is in my system that I instantly become a homicidal maniac or that my gun suddenly has magical powers and begins to "go off all by itself". ;)

It's simple. Know your limit. If you're too drunk to be around guns safely, then you're too drunk anyways. :)

weisse52
December 22, 2007, 06:00 PM
Quote:
I hear the comments about not trusting those that do and not trusting those that do not.

Actually that's... I was going to say inaccurate but it's actually just wrong.


Just wonder how this comment is just wrong?

The only thing I am anti is a person who is not in control of him/herself. Be that drinking, drugs, or just their personal life. My comments relate to anyone who wants to make a judgement on my life based upon some belief they hold as the only way.

Vitamin G
December 22, 2007, 06:08 PM
also, is there a difference to most people between "Drinking and shooting", and "Drinking and continuing to carry"?

To me, one is okay, the other is not.

Ed Ames
December 22, 2007, 06:17 PM
It was wrong because you weren't hearing comments about not trusting those who do or not trusting those who do not. Action (or inaction) wasn't part of the standard of trust...

weisse52
December 22, 2007, 06:36 PM
It was wrong because you weren't hearing comments about not trusting those who do or not trusting those who do not. Action (or inaction) wasn't part of the standard of trust...
__________________


Well,

We will have to agree to disagree on this.

My comments are meant in the broad sense of not accepting "blanket" dismissals of beliefs based upon the actions (or comments) of others

Beowolf1911
December 22, 2007, 06:39 PM
I think a lot of you guys need to relax a bit, everyone has a different limit. some people can have a few drinks and stay exactly the same person, albeit less coordinated, then they are sober. I could tuck my 1911 in my pants spend the evening pounding down my favorite single malt and then go put the gun away, no fuss no muss. Had I the need to use that gun to defend myself I would be useless, so I don't carry when I go out to a bar. But that in no way makes me more dangerous if I drink and carry. On the other hand I know quite a number of angry drunks that shouldn't be in the same room as a gun if they had a few. Different strokes different folks. It is more important to know how you are after a few then worry about other people and what they do.

Jorg Nysgerrig
December 22, 2007, 07:14 PM
It couldn't be more clear.

Actually, it could be. Your poll is terribly written and obviously a source of confusion. In your first option, which most picked, you aren't clear as to what the disgusting habit is. You don't differentiate between getting drinking two six packs and going to shoot clays out of the back of a moving pickup or a guy enjoying a glass of wine while carrying which obviously matters to people. The poll seems to be written to pander to those who don't imbibe and to damn those who do. Even your phrasing colors the poll with your carefully select use of "disgusting". You Throughout this thread, it has become obvious that you are less interested in the topic and more interested in keeping your thread going due to some bizarre sense of pride in having such a long, ongoing thread.

You can claim that it is as clear as day until you turn blue, but in the end, the fact that so many posters don't agree indicates that clear to you obivously isn't clear to them.

Officers'Wife
December 22, 2007, 07:23 PM
Hi Doubleg,

I have been drunk and shot, handled firearms. But being drunk did not effect my ability to be responsible in using them.

I used to have a boyfriend that swore six beers didn't effect his driving either. After him, I don't believe any statements to that effect.

Selena

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