Gun in a car at work


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eric.cartman
May 3, 2007, 01:15 PM
saw a lot of posts about being/not being able to leave your peace in a car where you work.

say they somehow suspect you do, come over to your office and say: "we want to search your car"

couldn't you just pull the "my wife/husband/friend/whoever dropped me off today, car is at XXX location" card ???

EDIT TO ADD: as a last resort that is.

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30 cal slob
May 3, 2007, 01:20 PM
can they legally search your car?

civilian
May 3, 2007, 01:20 PM
or better yet deny the request to search your car on the grounds that it's none of their business what's in your vehicle.

FireArmFan
May 3, 2007, 01:30 PM
I may be wrong but I am almost positive that in Minnesota it is ok to leave a gun in your car in a parking lot while at say an employer who bans employees the right to carry, or even in a university campus parking lot. I know it's illegal some places but I'm pretty sure it's fine where I live. Someone please correct me if i'm wrong on that tho.

scurtis_34471
May 3, 2007, 01:58 PM
My company's employee handbook states that disciplinary action up to and including termination can be taken when a employee refuses to allow a vehicle to be searched at the discretion of the company.

eric.cartman
May 3, 2007, 02:01 PM
+1 scurtis_34471

hence my post

One of Many
May 3, 2007, 02:12 PM
Does your company policy specify WHO does the search? Does it specify WHAT they may search for?

I think that an employee would be justified in demanding that ONLY a Police officer be allowed to search the vehicle, and only for items that are illegal per State Law. Nothing allowed to be removed from the vehicle or displayed to any company representative, except items that are contraband under the law.

If the company thinks that you are stealing their property, they must have sufficient evidence prior to a search, to obtain a warrant from a judge, and have a police officer perform the search, with only the specified items on the warrant being disclosed to company representatives.

A search under any other circumstance is a violation of your civil rights. Civil rights should take precedent over contract provisions.

Car Knocker
May 3, 2007, 02:15 PM
couldn't you just pull the "my wife/husband/friend/whoever dropped me off today, car is at XXX location" card ???
Sure you could. BUT, how are you going to get home? If management follows you out to the parking lot and watches you drive away, they've got you for dishonesty, which, in most companies, is a terminating offense. If you make other arrangements to get home, your car might look a little obvious, sitting there in the lot all by itself and might be impounded. If your company issues numbered parking decals to employees, the owner is obvious.

It's good to think about these things ahead of time - spur of the moment ploys are often not believeable.

Car Knocker
May 3, 2007, 02:17 PM
Civil rights should take precedent over contract provisions.
Not when you voluntarily sign those rights away.

Don Lu
May 3, 2007, 02:20 PM
I didnt know it was illegal or grounds for termination to leave a gun in a car. I would have thought its not a big deal, why would it be a big deal. Especially if I have a CCW permit ?

glockman19
May 3, 2007, 02:22 PM
You car can only be legally searched if you allow them. Otherwise they need a court order. Illegal search & Seizure. Ther was a decent video on that check this link out:

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=315933&fr=

Car Knocker
May 3, 2007, 03:39 PM
It can be, depending on the laws of the state and the rules of the company.

George Hill
May 3, 2007, 03:45 PM
You don't have civil rights on private property. Supreme Court has ruled on it.
Even here in Utah. If your employer specifies that certain things can not be in your car and you park your car on company property... you have no grounds. They can search... they can fire.
If your employer is like that - fire them. And tell them why. Go to a competitor if you can.

Trebor
May 3, 2007, 03:46 PM
Your company doesn't have the same rights as a law enforcement officer. They can't demand to search your vehicle to the point where they can arrest you if you refuse.

What they can do is fire you if you do not allow them to search. Whether the issue comes up at all is largely dependment on the work agreement you agreed to when you accepted the job and the law of the state you live in. Many states have "at will" laws meaning that you can be fired "at will" by your employer for whatever reason they want. Refusal to allow a search of your vehicle is one reason they can use.

frostbiker
May 3, 2007, 03:55 PM
My company leases the space we work out of. Technically, I'm not parking on their property. I have read the regulation backwards and forwards for my job. The easy way out is stating I am heading to either my gunsmith to have some work done on it, the range for practice, or the lease after work for some hunting (in season, of course).

Car Knocker
May 3, 2007, 03:57 PM
Your company doesn't have the same rights as a law enforcement officer. They can't demand to search your vehicle to the point where they can arrest you if you refuse.
There are a few exceptions. Railroads, for instance, whose Special Agents are certified as peace officers by the state and have the same police powers as the regular police.

Car Knocker
May 3, 2007, 04:01 PM
My company leases the space we work out of. Technically, I'm not parking on their property.
Check out the Utah/AOL case re: parking in a leased parking area. Employees were terminated and the termination upheld by the Utah SC.

RNB65
May 3, 2007, 04:14 PM
The best way around car issue is to do what I do -- don't use employer provided parking. I arrange my own parking from a private parking business. It's just as close to my office as the company parking and my employer has no say in what I can and cannot have in my car.

George Hill
May 3, 2007, 04:28 PM
No, you can refuse to let them search... you just lose your job for it.

greenflash107
May 3, 2007, 06:22 PM
The Company I work for also leases the buliding I work in. 80% of the workers have guns in their cars. I know the owner of the building and I Talked to him when we first moved into it. He stated he did not have any problems with anyone who worked here carrying (on their person) or in their cars. Now, the company I work with does not allow employee's to carry in the building, but they cannot stop us from having them in our cars. I can park a few spaces down away from our part of the building and I would like to see any upper management try to search our cars. The car is mine, paid in full, and no one has the right to search my property unless they have a court order. But as I said, they would have to fire 80% of the people that work here if they were to get anal about it.

TonyStarks
May 3, 2007, 06:28 PM
These must be small companies. How does a big company find the time to come up with such stupid ideas? Lets go search our employees cars!! Thats just plain crazy! I wish one of my co-workers would ask me if they could search my car...The cops cant even search my car without my concent or a warrant or unless they have a reason to suspect i have something illegal in it and even then they need my approval.
If my boss were to ask me to search my car, i would probably look at'em straight in the eye and say "What you're looking for is not in my car! Its in my underwear!" LOL

another okie
May 3, 2007, 06:34 PM
Actually it's often the big companies with in-house legal or human relations staff who have time and energy to come up with such rules. And large corporations often have home offices in cities or states that are not as gun-friendly as the state where the actual work is done. Here in Oklahoma it's companies such as Weyerhauser and Conoco-Phillips that are the biggest problem.

One poster above wrote:

"I think that an employee would be justified in demanding that ONLY a Police officer be allowed to search the vehicle, and only for items that are illegal per State Law."

Yes, you can sure demand that, and you can pick up your last paycheck five minutes later.

Essex County
May 3, 2007, 06:41 PM
If it's that big an issue shop for a new employer or become self-employed. Essex

TonyStarks
May 3, 2007, 06:44 PM
How about when they ask you to search your car, you walk them out to the parking lot and pretend you had an emergency call from your wife and you must suddenly leave! Explain how you dont have time and its an emergency, re-schedule the un-scheduled search for tomorrow!!:neener:

ArmedBear
May 3, 2007, 06:45 PM
loose lips sink ships

Im283
May 3, 2007, 06:46 PM
You are asking a question that needs answering by a lawyer registered in the state you work in.

In spite of what members here know or think they know I am not (nor should you be) excepting of answers that are based on the law when people answering are not experts at the law.

You ought to pay an attorney for an opinion. At least if he gives you bad advise you have some recourse.

Now acting as your attorney I would advise you to lie about it and refuse the search ;)

TonyStarks
May 3, 2007, 06:48 PM
snitches get stitches

Buzztail
May 3, 2007, 07:02 PM
My employer (national company) forbids firearms in personal vehicles on their property. My boss knows that I keep firearm(s) in my truck, and that if pressed on the issue I'd find a new parking lot (i.e. new job) before I let them search it. While not a gun owner, he is pro 2nd, and conservative. He has no problems with my status to and from work, and often takes an interest in my carry piece. I've made no bones about my stand on RKBA, and my willingness to change jobs over it. He made it clear that he'd give me the afternoon off before he'd let the higher ups force me into quitting.
We had this very talk again not long ago when it was voted on here in Florida.

elrod
May 3, 2007, 07:09 PM
To often employees do not read their employment handbook carefully enough or at all. Having a CCW matters not if employers forbid possession, even unloaded in a locked car trunk. As I understand the Conoco-Phillips case, they used drugs as a ruse and had sheriffs deputies conduct the search, accompanied by management. When weapons were found, the car owners were fired. I agree,this is unacceptable, but it was forbidden by company policy. We, as law-abiding citizens, should boycott the offenders. (I have refused to buy either Phillips 66 or Conoco gasoline since the incident). Kudos to the NRA for promoting the boycott.:neener:

MinnMooney
May 3, 2007, 07:31 PM
Good, informative (& long) video, "glockman19". I just hope that I can stay calm and recite one or more of the phases that they said are extremely important in the video.

scurtis_34471
May 3, 2007, 08:02 PM
I think whether or not you can survive a refusal to search depends a lot on the political capital you have within your company. I have been with my company for almost five years, have received outstanding reviews every year, have been promoted 3 times, have a reputation for doing whatever is necessary to get the job one, spend a lot of time working with senior management and report to a senior director. I could probably survive such a refusal once, but that would be it. I would be betting on the fact that management would not want to fire me. If I refused a search, they would probably read me the riot act and that would be it. If I allowed a search and a gun was found, it would be harder for them to protect me. I personally don't think its worth it when I can avoid the entire thing with a 500 yard walk.

CajunBass
May 4, 2007, 06:05 AM
I just checked my employers policy. It falls under "parking lot rules." It prohibits "handling" of firearms "except in gun cases" and "unauthorized discharge" of a firearm. (I wonder who can "authorize" it?)

During hunting season, about half the trucks in the parking lot on the evening and midnight shifts will have a shotgun hung on a rack. Never heard of anything ever being said about it.

At my part time job they have a policy that employee's can't have firearms at work or on the property. I ignore it. What are they going to do? Fire me?

Dr. Dickie
May 4, 2007, 08:30 AM
My company's employee handbook states that disciplinary action up to and including termination can be taken when a employee refuses to allow a vehicle to be searched at the discretion of the company.

If that is what you agreed to, then that is what you agreed to.
If people did not accept this, then it would be removed from the handbook, or the business would have a hard time getting employees.
I suspect that this was included so that they could search your vehicle if you were suspected of stealing something from the company. So, as long as there was not also something in there that forbid the keeping of firearms in your car (or on their property) you would be okay.
The question is, do you want to work for a company that would not let you keep your firearm in your vehicle? If so, then do not keep one in your vehicle. You don't have to like it.

ctdonath
May 4, 2007, 09:10 AM
As noted, usually employment is at-will: you can leave any time, and they can run you out the door at any time.

I worked somewhere a long-term employee had been ... er ... creative with what got trashed and what subsequently got "recycled" on eBay. They faced him with the choice of "let us inspect your home or you're fired." He didn't come back.

Don't think they'll ask to inspect your car on a whim, and don't expect a half-second of though is going to outwit them. From their point of view, they're faced with an angry/scared/distraught employee with a gun: a cop may very well be present, and the whole thing truly will come down to either prove your car is devoid of weapons or you're fired.

No games on this one folks.

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