I tried and I failed - polymer pistol poster


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.cheese.
May 4, 2007, 09:22 PM
I know.... it's horrible.... what went wrong?

http://thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=57516&stc=1&d=1178328101

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.cheese.
May 4, 2007, 09:23 PM
any constructive criticism is appreciated.... When I envisioned it... it was a lot better than it came out.

JCF
May 4, 2007, 09:27 PM
:D LOL.... I'm not sure Glock will be buying it anytime soon.

But A++ for a valiant effort in any event

Geronimo45
May 4, 2007, 09:33 PM
Gold-plated drill, of course. Auction it off on ebay and hire a crack team of Mexicans to build the house for you. :D

jamz
May 4, 2007, 10:20 PM
Wordy, wordy wordy wordy wordy. Brevity is key.

You could juxtapose an old adze, and a modern hand planer or something, and say something short, like "technology advances for a reason" or something similar.

Greysand
May 4, 2007, 10:20 PM
The basic message seems to get throu, more or less.. But it's complicated, and hard to read. Almost reminds me of that Hackzor l33t speek.. Tone it down some.. Simple, easy, Funny / sexy. Like a glock in a piece of tupperware. "for all things that go burp in the night" or something..

http://www.topglock.com/images/glock_poster_perfectshape1.JPG Simple, effective...

As a side note: while looking for a funny pic to stick in here i entered both "glock funny" into google images and "1911 funny". It's clear that we 1911 fans have no sense of humor what-so-ever. Try it. yikes.

daysleeprx
May 4, 2007, 11:05 PM
Too wordy and too abstract.

Plus, what's the point of this poster other than to create yet even more discord between the "polymer vs. steel" camps? You could make a poster extolling the virtues of polymer guns without taking a shot at other guns at the same time, and the same point would be made.

TX1911fan
May 4, 2007, 11:06 PM
Problem is your premise. I assume you are trying to cut on 1911s, and equate them to the hand drill. It doesn't work. A more apt comparison would be an all steel hammer to a hammer with a steel head and a polymer shaft. Not such a big difference in that comparison, except that the polymer hammer would be lighter and cheaper to manufacture.

Greysand, I almost want to buy a Glock now.

Mortech
May 4, 2007, 11:13 PM
The sad part is that the goldplated drill was definitely more useful in New Orleans ! No damn batteries to recharge !

zoom6zoom
May 4, 2007, 11:27 PM
Besides that - you need a hammer much more than a drill - and a Glock doesn't have one!

Caimlas
May 5, 2007, 12:22 AM
I guess that's the different between a tradesman and an artisan. :P

Sorry, I've got a "hand tool" preference (except for saws and things that cut metal), and I like organic things. Not just wood over plastic, though that's nice, but metal over plastic as well. A tool should, preferably, have some heft to it. You use an 18 oz hammer (or whatever) for framing, not an 8 oz. finishing hammer. A heavy metal circular saw can and does reduce the vibrations, and its weight helps keep it cutting in a steady line. The "plastic" power tools will

Besides, what you're comparing isn't similar to something like metal vs. plastic in an autopistol. It's like comparing a compound bow to an autopistol. A more appropriate comparison would be a 20-year-old Craftsman saw or drill (both of mine are, and are all-metal) to cheap $20 plastic tools from the same/similar companies (seen quite a few go south). Plastic simply isn't as durable as metal.

.cheese.
May 5, 2007, 12:41 AM
Actually, the only message was that the "Glocks" (and other polymer guns are ugly) argument is irrelevant. You shouldn't pick a gun solely on looks.... it's functionality that counts.

You can be the man that lives with an ugly gun.... or who dies with the most beautifully decorated one ever.

I'm not necessarily saying that WOULD be the case... I'm just saying that it COULD be the case if you don't pay attention to functionality and reliability which is what matters in a tool.

.cheese.
May 5, 2007, 12:42 AM
btw - you guys wouldn't believe how long it took to make that gold-plated manual drill in GIMP.

daysleeprx
May 5, 2007, 12:46 AM
Actually, the only message was that the "Glocks" (and other polymer guns are ugly) argument is irrelevant. You shouldn't pick a gun solely on looks.... it's functionality that counts.

Again, what point are you trying to make? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...why can't you have a gun that's both good looking AND reliable? :P

You can be the man that lives with an ugly gun.... or who dies with the most beautifully decorated one ever.

Or you can be someone who can't shoot worth a darn and be a dead man regardless of what gun you have. :neener:

.cheese.
May 5, 2007, 09:15 AM
daysleeprx - well... of course. For the sake of the fact that it's a gun forum, I'm going to give people the benefit of the doubt that they can hit their target at legally allowed distances for justified deadly force.

As for beauty in the eye of the beholder - you're right. Personally, I have no problem with my Glocks and how they look. They look just fine to me..... but I constantly hear people arguing that Glocks (and other polymer pistols) are not worth buying because they're "ugly" and I don't get that argument...... You can certainly have a gun that is beautiful AND reliable (revolvers fit the bill). However, if faced between a EBHG (Evil black hand gun) that you know works 100% and some other gun that looks pretty but you don't know works well (or worse - know jams a lot)..(ie: some 1911's or other autos)... my point was that just like with a tool, you pick it by functionality..... so I made a graphic..

a crappy graphic as it turned out.... but a graphic nonetheless.

clt46910
May 5, 2007, 09:43 AM
I have both a Glock and a Kimber, either has ever jammed on me. Both reliable enough to bet your life on. But I must admit my Kimber Eclipse in its black sharkskin holster gets a lot more compliments then my G19 does in its Fobus holster.

Hawk
May 5, 2007, 09:59 AM
As others have noted, another "Glock v. 1911" thread would be tiresome in the extreme - you can extol polymer without dredging up that old canard yet again.

Also, there's got to be a better icon for polymer than the drill, I don't know offhand what it might be but I'm sure you didn't intend the polymer pistol to be equated to something that:

1. Needs a battery.
2. Won't run long after the power goes out.
3. Doesn't work if it gets wet.
4. Makes a smaller hole than the gold plated whatchmacallit.

Cordless drill has more in common with a "smart gun" than an XD.

ctdonath
May 5, 2007, 10:04 AM
I constantly hear people arguing that Glocks ... are not worth buying because they're "ugly"Methinks Greysand answered that once and for all.

ctdonath
May 5, 2007, 10:05 AM
Sometimes one pursues an idea to its conclusion, only to prove that wasn't such a great idea after all. That's OK!

What to learn?
- Verbose doesn't cut it. Maybe for some media, but wordiness in posters doesn't work.
- There's nothing wrong with all-metal guns. Likening 'em to gold-plated hand drills is a non-sequitor.
- Other than snide comments about tupperware, I have no idea what the alleged problem with polymer is. If you can't identify the problem, there isn't one.
- Using GIMP to make something look like gold is hard.
- The text in the end is too small to effectively use complex logos as letters.

.cheese.
May 5, 2007, 10:09 AM
Hawk - I know... I thought about that when I was putting it together. I even GIMP'ed a few things on the drill to make it a better fit.

btw- I don't want anybody to get the wrong idea. I have nothing against Kimbers, 1911's, etc. I was just trying to make a graphic people could use to make the point that a gun is a tool, and how it looks isn't important if you know you can bet your life on it.

I need to get the message out better. It doesn't even need to be about polymer vs anything else.... just about reliability.

I'll give it some thinking and try again in a couple days or so after I've graduated and am a free man waiting to start my JD/MBA.

ctdonath - absolutely. I'll learn from what went wrong this time.... and hopefully do better next time. :)

ctdonath
May 5, 2007, 10:55 AM
http://donath.org/poly_v_steel.jpg

Images are not mine; copyrighted material used with "fair use" intentions for discussion. File is not public domain.

Hawk
May 5, 2007, 11:34 AM
Interesting challenge: reliability in polymer without dissing the alternative. Plastic anvil, maybe? And how to dipict that? Gloss and color?

CT,
The second vehicle would share a lot of characteristics with the 1911 when the good-natured kidding between the camps starts flying. To wit:

1. Expensive.
2. Fussy - sure couldn't till uncle Ned's back forty with it.
3. Thinks it's hot stuff if it runs 2K miles and year and will likely retire before 5K.
4. Needs a fleet of high-priced gunsmit..., I mean mechanics to keep it running.

Glock has promoted an image of being capable of "high milage", simplicity, reliability and toughness - much more akin to the tractor. Perhaps just update the tractor?

http://www.samedeutz-fahr.com/lamborghini/img/fotoHome.jpg

.cheese.
May 5, 2007, 11:49 AM
plastic anvil......

hmmmm

that's actually not a half bad idea.

Caimlas
May 5, 2007, 06:15 PM
Hawk, funny you should post that photo of a modern tractor. I've got a friend who replaced 5 John Deer recent vintage tractors on his ranch with two 10-year-old Unimogs after a brief trial (6 months) of one Unimog. They've been using the Unamogs for almost a decade now with substantially decreased down-time (they needed 5 tractors to keep 2 serviceable at all times). Turns out the minimal down-time of a Unimog compensates for the need to have 2 running at all times by freeing up the time that would normally be spent on maintanance for more work.

Oh yeah, and the Unimog design is vintage 1946. The government uses them (IIRC) to pull the space shuttle launch pad.

Anyway, back on topic: the characteristics of polymer-grip guns which makes them, IMO, inferior, are: increased vibration, lack of weight for stability, inherrently more complex due to the metal frame (ie more possible points of failure), more likely catastrophic sudden failure. That doesn't mean that they're not good, or good enough for the job (because they often are, having their own distinct advantages), just that I prefer the alternative. :)

Hawk
May 5, 2007, 06:29 PM
A friend of mine actually collects Unimogs. Those things have more permutations than I can count.

On a board with a more political bent, I was once warned that my butt would eventually be injured by the amount of "fence sitting" I did. I'm sure they'd be chagrined to learn I managed to "split the difference" in handguns as well - my favorite remains an STI VIP: sufficient polymer to distress a 1911 purist but not enough to keep a polymer advocate happy. Perfect. It's even a .40.

Caimlas
May 5, 2007, 07:22 PM
Hawk: LOL!

Yeah, I've got a preference for all-steel framed pistols. But my carry piece is a polymer framed 9mm. *shrug* I don't shoot it all that often, so the pleasure of doing so it's the perogative - haivng something I'll carry daily, is. I'm not the type who thinks that everything looks like a nail because all I've got is a hammer, if you get my drift. :P

Notch
May 5, 2007, 11:25 PM
Colt 1911... Almost a century and still going strong... When the other guys can say that, LET 'EM.


Glock... Because 10,000 crack dealers cant be all wrong.

.cheese.
May 5, 2007, 11:30 PM
I don't think that the second slogan would help the 2A cause very much. :rolleyes:

Guess I must be in the wrong field considering the number of Glocks I own. lol.....

well, and I guess I must have access to crack too..... isn't that what the Brady Campaign says? Something to the effect that you and I are more likely to need a stiff drink in the morning and to smoke crack?

KenW.
May 5, 2007, 11:39 PM
There's nothing wrong with Glock handguns, other than:
Squishy trigger:uhoh:
Poor grip angle:cuss:
Lack of manually operated safety device:banghead:


Oh, and yeah... They're ugly:barf:

ctdonath
May 6, 2007, 10:33 PM
Glock: pull trigger, go bang.

atek3
May 6, 2007, 10:55 PM
This $2500 dollar custom pistol, when used properly, will save the life of its owner:
http://www.egw-guns.com/images/LimitedGunLWwbg_small.jpg

Then again, so will this $500 dollar factory stock polymer pistol:
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/new_products/GAnewhg_020106L.jpg

Spend the difference on ammo and proper training.


What do you think?

ripcurlksm
May 6, 2007, 11:05 PM
So what you're saying is that a 1911 is golden? ;)

ripcurlksm
May 6, 2007, 11:06 PM
the M&P is the ONLY polymer bodied pistol I have shot and loved.... not so much for the glocks... IMHO.. love that M&P!

Doggy Daddy
May 7, 2007, 01:35 AM
TheEconomist

I tried and I failed - polymer pistol poster


Don't be too hard on yourself.
At least you didn't do something really boneheaded... like handcuff yourself to the balcony in your underwear. :D

CajunBass
May 7, 2007, 01:48 AM
I've owned a few handguns in my time. 1911's, a Glock, an XD, couple of Smith&Wesson 39's, and a few others, although I make no claim at all to be any kind of expert.

I've just never really seen where one was "better" than the other. They're just different.

Sharps-shooter
May 7, 2007, 01:54 AM
You can be the man that lives with an ugly gun.... or who dies with the most beautifully decorated one ever.

everyone dies, but not everyone dies with a purty gun.

mcosman
May 7, 2007, 03:29 AM
Under the guise of "constructive critizism" I would like to point out that it is called a "Brace & bit" not a manual drill, and I happen to own one. I keep it in my toolbox as a suveiner from my father. I have never used it, but my father used to build houses with it. Including the one I grew up in.

heypete
May 7, 2007, 03:48 AM
Oh yeah, and the Unimog design is vintage 1946. The government uses them (IIRC) to pull the space shuttle launch pad.

The pad itself is, amazingly, self-propelled (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawler-transporter). I'm not sure if the crawler-transporter stays with the pad during the launch, but I wouldn't be surprised if it drove the pad out there, dropped it off, then returned to safety.

Three shoes of the crawler-transporter's tracks would weigh as much as an empty Unimog. The C-T eight tracks have a total of 456 shoes. :D Somehow, I suspect even a fleet of Unimogs wouldn't be able to tow the pad.

mindwip
May 7, 2007, 04:01 AM
This $2500 dollar custom pistol, when used properly, will save the life of its owner:


Then again, so will this $500 dollar factory stock polymer pistol:


Spend the difference on ammo and proper training

What about a SIG or hi-power for 500, and it will last.



http://donath.org/poly_v_steel.jpg


Don't know what others thought about that pic but i saw that steel will always work no matter how old, and get the job done. Plastic, something that needs constant help and upkeep, also wont last for longer then a couple, race cars need help to work, compared to a tractor that still be used after its rusted out lol.

Kaylee
May 7, 2007, 08:04 AM
atek.. for that last image, you might want to look for a fighting pistol rather than a competition model for your top image.

Now that said, the assumption that folk don't buy plastic guns on looks alone is just silly. There's all sorts of reasons some of us prefer metal designs - aside from the shape of the grip, there's all sorts of other ergonomic factors. Personally, I like how the balance of a steel pistol doesn't change as dramatically as a plastic one as ammunition is expended, to say nothing of things like trigger resets, bore axis, so forth and so on.

So basically, what I don't get is why you seem so intent on pushing the "plastic guns are better than metal guns" thing. If your plastic gun works well for you, great. If someone's steel or aluminum or scandium or whatever gun works for them, great. But we're not talking flintlock versus self-loader here.

There's more than enough room for both in this world.

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