Gunshots on campus tonight


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BayouTeche77
May 5, 2007, 02:23 AM
I've posted this on another forum but thought I would share here.

I just got back from campus, its 12:30 a.m., where I was waiting with my friend who's girlfriend's car was stalled because it got flooded in the parking lot. We were waiting for the tow truck to come and pick her car up in the middle of a large empty parking lot when we heard what sounded like a rifle shot. I know the sounds of different guns and the sound was sharp and powerful unlike most pistols so I figured it was a rifle.

The sound we heard came from south of our location. It was unnerving to say the least, but I immediately dismissed it as a transformer blowing to ease everyone else's tension since they all flushed white as soon as the sound happened. But, to be on the safe side, I told everyone to get into there cars and start the engines incase and I asked one of the girls present to call campus police.

As we were walking to our cars, two more shots rang out north of where we were standing, immediately campus police was dialed as we all got into our cars. These two shots sounded a lot less intense and really quick, more like a pistol would sound. Not a minute, literally, after the call, a caravan of flashing blue lights was heading our way. Three cop cars flew past our location as though they knew where they were heading and two others turned down a side street before reaching us. My guess is we were not the only ones to call in the shots. After the cop cars passed us, three more shots came from the second location in rapid succession.

Right before the cops passed us, the tow truck pulled up so I stayed with my friend and his dad to see the car off. The tow truck loaded the car and we were off in 15 minutes. The only reason we stayed was because sitting on my front seat after the first shot was my car gun, I was ready in case.

I guess my real reason for posting this is because this happened ON CAMPUS. I realized after today the importance of being prepared. I also have to question whether I should adhere to campus policy about going unarmed on campus. I'm not a CCL holder, yet, but it is in the works though my car is always well protected. I'm a senior about to graduate in a couple of months and am currently seriously weighing the risks once I have my license if I should carry on campus or not. I understand that concealed means concealed and no one else should know but should I be discovered it would mean expulsion when I've worked so hard and long to get where I am. I also understand the better to be judged by twelve than carried by six mentality, as a gun has already saved my life, but I am now in a serious state of internal confusion.

I am very shaken by this incident and just felt that I would resort to you guys for a few words of advice and insight. When I know the whole story of what happened tonight I will be sure to let everyone know, but for now, I am seriously wondering about my future carrying habits on campus. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks.

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Oleg Volk
May 5, 2007, 02:29 AM
Whatever security arrangements you make, keep them private. Loose lips and all...

NeoSpud
May 5, 2007, 02:29 AM
This reminds me of Summer 2005, when I was a youth counselor and I was chaperoning an event at a local movie-in-the-park. Apparently a state trooper shot a motorist who was attempting to run over him (so the story goes), but all I heard were 4-5 shots in quick pattern. Although I've never been in a shooting, I knew from practice that it was a gun, not fireworks, and I immediately gather together all the adolescents under my guard and moved them to a local fast food eatery. No one else understood why I was so upset until the news came on and said there was a shooting... then they all "got it."

It was the first time I ever got that "immediate feeling" about hearing a gunshot and taking direct action as soon as possible... kinda cool in retrospect, but as a person with two dozen kids for whom he is responsible, I was freaked at the time. :p

BayouTeche77
May 5, 2007, 02:50 AM
Oleg,

I can assure you that whatever I decide it will be only my knowledge. I completely understand the concept of concealed carry and will make it a point to keep any information like that to myself. I really doubt that I could convince myself to take that chance though.

Hoppy590
May 5, 2007, 02:55 AM
Whatever security arrangements you make, keep them private. Loose lips and all...

exactly. unless your doing soemthing your not supposed to do, or your sloppy with concealment. no one will know to begin with

if your logical. the preservation of your life and offspring is top priority to all species. and hence more important than any law

if your religious, gods laws are second to no dean

bogie
May 5, 2007, 11:54 AM
The dean can kick Jesus outta college after 3.5 years of expensive study.

I used to hear random gun shots all the time in the city. I lived in a "mostly disarmed" area. Now, in the outter 'burbs, where pretty much everyone has guns, I haven't heard any except during deer season.

PRazz
May 5, 2007, 12:11 PM
OP- "I guess my real reason for posting this is because this happened ON CAMPUS. I realized after today the importance of being prepared. I also have to question whether I should adhere to campus policy about going unarmed on campus. I'm not a CCL holder, yet, but it is in the works though my car is always well protected. I'm a senior about to graduate in a couple of months and am currently seriously weighing the risks once I have my license if I should carry on campus or not. I understand that concealed means concealed and no one else should know but should I be discovered it would mean expulsion when I've worked so hard and long to get where I am. I also understand the better to be judged by twelve than carried by six mentality, as a gun has already saved my life, but I am now in a serious state of internal confusion."

I'm in a similar situation as you and understand. This has been a daily issue for me since I started school last year. Though I have my CCDW, so far the only thing I've carried on campus is my holster. My gun always seems to stay in the car. It's sad that I have to adhere to a "no guns policy" for fear of expulsion. This school is the only reasonably distanced option for me right now until I transfer to UofL- (btw UofL has a no guns policy as well as i understand. Two UofL instructors were in my CCDW class and they explained it to the instructor who says that he was a marshal for 30 some years and worked quite a bit for UofL as well. They had quite a conversation about it and anyway, it doesn't look good for me carrying there either where I would probably need it the most. Quite a large campus there and i would probably not make it to my car fast enough.
Anyway, the school I'm at now, they don't even have a disaster plan for wtshtf, the only thing in their emergeny plan is for a bomb threat, and it is not a very student friendly policy. When I'm sitting in class I'm basically a "fish in a barrel". The policy is to not tell anyone anything until it can be determined to be a credible threat. This whole carry on campus issue personally has me pretty fired up. I'm no kid(30's and disabled vet) and feel I should physically do something about it like getting others to sign a petition, or making a PPT presentation and then mass e-mailing it to all students/professors/admins/gov't. I just don't want all the attention that would bring me. I feel as though Kentucky should understand this issue. Ky has the pro-gun potential to be one of the first states to give it a try. Licensed to carry individuals I know personally are more trained and safety conscious than those I know who just have a gun in their drawer and shoot it every couple of years. I would have NO problem sharing a classroom with responsibly armed professors/students with a desire to live. Phil Razz

.cheese.
May 5, 2007, 12:23 PM
PRazz - I was going to start doing that until that kid at UF got arrested for aggravated assault just from possessing an airsoft pistol. He wasn't even shooting at people from what I understand.... he just was having fun with it.

Granted - it was a dumb move on his part for doing that just following the VT incident..... but I all of a sudden started thinking, "I have to sit down in class all the time.... my shirts CAN (not necessarily WILL) potentially reveal a holster.

Even with no gun in the holster and me abiding by the rules..... the aggravated assault charge at UF had me decide it was not a good idea. The charges I'm sure won't stick..... but that kid is in a world of inconvenience right now.

Then again I carry OWB under my shirt. If you carry IWB, then I guess it's a different story.

I just figure.... only a couple days until I'm outta here... so I'm not going to risk it.

PRazz
May 5, 2007, 01:10 PM
I carry OWB either a Pro Carry or a PT145 Pro. I would definately print the way our desks are, kinda like High School desks as oposed to an auditorium style seating.

I reposted to add that I believe I've found a way to start making people more aware. I have one final Classical Argument to do in my English class. I have decided to do it about "carry on campus" and believe i have a very good argument for it. Yeah she said no papers on "gun control" but in lieu of the recent shootings at VT and also the case of the two students who had to make a run for their car to retrieve their guns to stop the shooter after killing multiple prof/students, I think it needs to be adressed again and that I can form a strong argument. Wish me luck, I've got two pages written already how I'm going to form it.

BayouTeche77
May 5, 2007, 01:29 PM
I knew that I wasn't the only one with these issues. I am now scheduled to take my concealed carry courses in a couple of weeks. I have been racking my brains about how to properly carry on campus where, like you have already said, the desks would definitely cause your gun to print. It would be way too risky and very easy for someone to alert the administration. I figured my best bet would be to carry in my book bag. It has many little compartments where I could sit a holster and secure it. Plus, I have my bag with me at all times since I won't let my computer out of my sight.

I've experienced things like this before, hearing gun shots coming from near my location, but last night it really bothered me because of all the people standing around me, including my fiance, and their faces and fear at the sounds really struck me. Since I had a gun in my car at the time it sort of helped to ease everyone's fear but I was also bothered by the fact that this could happen in the middle of the day when my car was clean accross campus.

I feel that it needs to be said to explain my problem with whether to carry or not. The other day I witnessed the campus police questioning a fellow student who was playing with a rubber band gun in front of the student union with some friends. The cops confiscated the (cops words) "reasonable facsimile of a real firearm" and told the student that they actually had the authority to have disciplinary action brought against this kid. Thats how insane this thing has gotten. Rubber band guns are getting kids brought in front of the dean of students. Its ridiculous.

Clipper
May 5, 2007, 06:51 PM
Cargo pants and pocket carry...

SaxonPig
May 5, 2007, 07:18 PM
When I was a kid I lived in neighborhoods where gunfire was so common the cops never bothered to check it out unless somebody was actually hit. One of my mom's favorite stories is the one about the time the cops were shooting it out with some guys barricaded in the house across the street and she was horrified to see me standing on the sidewalk nearly between them watching the action (I was six years old).

The first house I owned was hit by gunfire twice. Broke a window with one slug and another went through the laundry room wall and punched a hole in the water heater. That sucked. Water everywhere.

And I'm not even counting the times I was the source of the gunfire.

zahc
May 5, 2007, 07:32 PM
I realized after today the importance of being prepared. I also have to question whether I should adhere to campus policy about going unarmed on campus. I'm not a CCL holder, yet, but it is in the works though my car is always well protected. I'm a senior about to graduate in a couple of months and am currently seriously weighing the risks once I have my license if I should carry on campus or not. I understand that concealed means concealed and no one else should know but should I be discovered it would mean expulsion when I've worked so hard and long to get where I am. I also understand the better to be judged by twelve than carried by six mentality, as a gun has already saved my life, but I am now in a serious state of internal confusion.

Isn't it wonderful? As an academic, I am just about done being more afraid of the 'man' than the criminals. If it's a question of school policy, I wouldn't even give it a secord thought nowadays. My life is worth much more than my career. In some states like mine, carry on campus is actually against the law. Proceed with caution. Not that I advocate breaking the law, but I have considered bookback carry as the best option. It's not quick access but at least you have it.

It is very sad that we have to live in fear from both sides.

Albatross
May 5, 2007, 07:37 PM
Carrying Concealed on campus is very possible at a large public school.

A number of people at my school carry every day (or used to as they are now graduated) During their schooling they attended with (most commonly) IWB holsters and 5inch 1911s (a full size Glock or .357 revolver is carried by one fellow now and then).

One of the guys I know of carried for the first two years of school (including living in the dorms) in an OWB holster and jacket.

What is necessary is paying careful attention and maintaining your cover garment when you are getting up from your desk, when the shirt/jacket has a tendency to ride up. The solution is to just reach down and grab your jacket as you stand/sit ensuring your weapon is covered.

Obviously gun scrutiny is higher now and punishments more likely to be severe, which creates a need for equally higher vigilance in keeping the weapon a secret.

Due to my ‘political position’ I’ve learned of these people who carry guns on campus, but there are 18k students here and there is no way that the half dozen or so who have revealed themselves to me are the only ones carrying.

Anyway, if you keep your mouth shut and (don’t tell anyone, including your current girl friend) it definitely can be done without exposing yourself to undue social risk.

starboard
May 5, 2007, 07:59 PM
You can carry something small in a pocket holster in the big pocket of your cargo pants (with a velcro flap). The rectangular shape of the holster prints like a wallet. Unless you are searched, and the chances of that are practically nil if you act and look respectable, no one will ever know.

Heck, bangers carry all the time and they usually get away with it despite being obvious cop-magnets. A normal person is extremely unlikely to get into any kind of trouble. Around here - People's Rainbow-Flagged Buttpirate Republic of Kalifornica - the first offense for unlawful handgun CCW is a misdemeanor. How compelling is that for keeping oneself unarmed and far less able to protect one's family? Not very, let me tell you.

helpless
May 5, 2007, 08:04 PM
Nay updates on what happend?

Pitmaster
May 5, 2007, 08:34 PM
You might consider the Smartcarry, as long as you fiancee doesn't get frisky and find out.:evil:

Regarding carrying on campus, that's a tough decision to make. If I was a freshman, its a no-brainer. I'll take the risk. 2 months from graduation and that's a lot more to lose.

I work in community mental health in an extremely bad neighborhood, with occasional evening work. Work policy is no weapons and immediate termination. Weapons includes small pocketknives, even on a keychain. I know I can find another job with my skills without any problem. I carry, even while visiting families in their home to conduct therapy. I keep my mouth shut, IWB, and loose shirt.

Fulcrum of Evil
May 5, 2007, 08:37 PM
> Around here - People's Rainbow-Flagged Buttpirate Republic of Kalifornica - the first offense for unlawful handgun CCW is a misdemeanor.

Hey, now, gays have even more reason to CCW than the rest of us.

Im283
May 5, 2007, 08:56 PM
The OP stated " having a gun in my car" Am I missing something here?

Why do you have a gun in your car with no carry permit?

Sounds foolish to me. I do not mean to tell you your business. But if you intend to own guns and carry them it would be best to be legal before doing so.

I am very careful as to my actions with guns. I enjoy them too much to lose the right to have them.

As for gunshots on campus. Living near Knoxville and working with UT students almost all of them have related at one time or another as to hearing gunshots where they live near campus. Not a one of them was excited to the point where they illegally carried a gun. None of them for that matter seemed overly concerned about hearing them. I do not know about your campus but the residential area near UT is just off campus, but gun shots could just as easily be from a frat house or parking lot. I would probably attribute it to a drunken student having fun as did the guys I worked with. (note: I do not define it as fun but for lack of a better term I used that one)

starboard
May 5, 2007, 10:13 PM
Hey, now, gays have even more reason to CCW than the rest of us.

True that. I'm just poking fun (perhaps in poor taste) at the institutional glorification of the thing that's the norm around here.

MikeRussell
May 5, 2007, 10:41 PM
Why do you have a gun in your car with no carry permit?

Because in Louisiana, your vehicle is considered an extension of your home. So, you don't have to have a license to carry concealed to have a loaded firearm in your car.

BayouTeche77
May 5, 2007, 11:39 PM
Exactly as Mike Russell said. I have the right to keep a loaded weapon in my vehicle, as an extension of my home, but can't keep one on my person while on campus.

As for any news on the incident, we heard nothing today about it except what people I know who live around there told me. They pretty much just repeated what I told you all here. They heard the shots. One of them was justing getting through her door when she heard the shots and called the campus PD as well. However, we are all in the dark about what it actually was, definitely gun shots but "why" is what we're wondering. I agree that it might have been just an idiot firing wildly for "fun".

I've been involved in shoot outs before, both before the age of 12. It's not the fact that I heard shooting, its just the fact that I am impaired from protecting myself and loved ones should just cause arise. I always have a nice knife on me along with my "utility" pocket knife and, from now on, pepper spray, but when guns are involved, I definitely feel unprotected.

Since I am so close to being out of here, its not worth the risk to carry on campus. I appreciate the responses, though.

mac66
May 6, 2007, 11:31 AM
Lots of colleges are wrestling with what to do about people carrying guns on campuses. We all know that some people do, they are called criminals because for the most part they have broken the law simply by doing so.

Unfortunately, how do you tell the hard core criminal who carries on campus to rape, pillage and plunder from the person who carries simply to protect themselves and whose only crime is a violation of carry law?

The college I work at has a number of retired and current cops teaching in the criminal justice program. I also know of several reserve officers and deputies who work or teach in other areas. They are not allowed to carry on campus.

On the other hand, if you have a shooting situation on campus and the campus police/city police respond and encounter multiple persons with guns, how do they know who is who, particularly if some of those people are just regular permit holders?

On the other hand, the reason for banning guns on campus is the fear that some nut will go crazy and start shooting everyone in sight. That fear has been realized and the ironic thing is that the very rules designed to prevent it, has actually enabled it to happen.

akodo
May 6, 2007, 12:05 PM
The situation of being on campus and doing what is morally right yet legally risky calls for concealed carry to be thought of in a different light.

Normally, one must weigh both concealment, ease of access, security of firearm. For some states where open carry is an option, you can worry much less about concealment.

In your case, I'd put much more ephasis on concealment.

I'd go out and purchase one of those very small Kel-Tec's in 380, or even 32, or a beretta 32 or somethign equally small small small. Now, normally people would not be advocating such small guns, but when 'deep concealment' is called for, they are what you need.

I'd also look at placing the firearm in a position where it is not going to show AT ALL, even if that means it will take you a few more seconds to ready it. It is better to have a weak gun 10 seconds away than a powerful gun locked in your trunk 5 minutes away. Things to consider, a small 'wallet' like for CDs, small nondescript guncase that doesn't have the triangular shape, go for square if you can, which holds the gun, which is then placed in your backpack/messanger type bag. Alternitively, a holster that goes deep into the front of one's pants pocket, to make the buldge when oyu sit down look much less 'gunny' but even that amount of printing could be dangerous in your situation. This may be a good time for Thunderwear style carry.

Im283
May 6, 2007, 04:29 PM
aaahhhhhh, I did not realize you had a law that extends your home into your car. Sounds like a good law to me to bad we do not have it here. I am glad you were not illegal carrying.

I agree with you that it is not worth the risk to carry on campus while so close to being done with school. Odds are you will be safe by the situational awareness you seem to have.

Sig245
May 6, 2007, 04:40 PM
I remember living in Los Angeles during the Rodney King riots. I did not have a permit, they were impossible to get at that time, I carried a full size 45 acp on the passenger seat of my car under a newspaper. Did it for a good two weeks. I was scared to death that my car would get attacked in the area that I had to work in.

There was a total breakdown in police protection in that area and the police told folks to arm themselves and then they left the area and moved their defensive line back to the 405 freeway.

I made the decision that my life was more inportant than the prevailing gun laws and I would take my lumps if stopped. Thats a personal choice you have to make.

At my current age, I would make a personal choice to have a small pocket firearm with me if I had to attend classes at a large university. I choose not to become a victum!

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