Tuck gun into waistband, gun goes boom. Common?


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Patchbunny
May 6, 2007, 02:03 AM
My brother knows I'm into guns, and asked me the following question today.

How often does someone tuck a gun into their waistband (not a holster) only to have it go off? How unsafe is it?

I think I've come across one incident of this in Darwin Awards, but I can't recall hearing in the news of someone suffering such a fate. Anyone know?

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JWarren
May 6, 2007, 02:14 AM
It's way too late at night (need to be in bed) for me to look it up, but yeah-- it's happened, and more than once.


Gives a whole new mental image of someone referring to their "bits and pieces."


-- John

WeedWhacker
May 6, 2007, 02:26 AM
However often it happens, it's not a significant percentage of the time. By comparison to, say, using a proper holster, the difference is likely to be alarmingly huge.

Holsters protect the trigger from catching on things, protect the gun from you (oil, sweat, hair, skin flakes), you from the gun (hot metal, cold metal), greatly increase retention (nothing like having a gun fall out of your pants leg), and can speed deployment by keeping the firearm in the same place at the same angle all the time.

Since even cheap-o holsters make such a world of difference when it comes to carrying firearms, why would anyone consider not spending $15 to $50 on a halfway decent holster?

3rdpig
May 6, 2007, 02:29 AM
How often? Might as well ask how often fools get their hands on loaded guns.

I watched a guy in a gun store discharge his pistol as he was reholstering it. He had their gunsmith install a wide trigger shoe, and sure enough, it was wider than the trigger guard and when he reholstered it (a DAO auto) the tightness of the holster cocked and fired it. Fortunately for him, it only caused a minor flesh wound. Unfortunately for the rest of us, he's probably still carrying a gun.

helpless
May 6, 2007, 02:52 AM
All sorts of clothing have different buckles, strings, buttons, elastic this and thats. I am sure it happens all the time. Always use a proper holster.

Now think of all the improper holsters or holster button snaps that have been jammed into triggers suprised LEs as well as CCW holders.

Robert Hairless
May 6, 2007, 03:14 AM
If it helps, I never heard of it happening twice to the same person.

gunsmith
May 6, 2007, 08:36 AM
things that look good in the movies often are a bad idea in real life

robert garner
May 6, 2007, 08:50 AM
I have no idea as to how often sometimes once is plenty, had an incident last year here where it took out a femoral artery. Plenty of heads up?
robert

SDC
May 6, 2007, 09:27 AM
Often enough that sane people rule out "Mexican carry" as any sort of a responsible way to carry a gun; I've heard it referred to as a "Mexican vasectomy".

FerFAL
May 6, 2007, 09:53 AM
A cop told me of a friend of his (also a cop) that shot himself in the testicles while tucking in a compact Glock “Mexican style”. Ouch! Always use holsters.

FerFAL

Titan6
May 6, 2007, 10:17 AM
Yes, stupid is common. Common sense is rare....

benEzra
May 6, 2007, 10:59 AM
Not common, and happens disproportionately to criminals (because they are much less likely to use holsters). Basically, a gun will not just "go off," but it may well fire if your waistband/belt/buckle/finger/whatever pulls the trigger.

Happened to a small-time Canadian hitman named Chang Thong Vo, who became known on the street as "No Wang Vo" after sticking a .45 in his front waistband, sans holster, and had a mishap...

http://www.canadafirst.net/back_issues/cih-jan.html (second entry)


Kidnapper pulls a similar stunt:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15737511/

Glockman17366
May 6, 2007, 11:10 AM
This is a good thread!

If I were going to carry sans holster, I'd put the gun at the small of my back. I can deal with getting shot in the butt...but shooting Mr. Willy or his two friends is not an option!

I don't even like SOB carry due to the difficulty of reholstering.

armoredman
May 6, 2007, 11:28 AM
Well, I was there when a co worker had a Davis Derringer go off in his back pocket - blew out a section of jeans the size of silver dollar, and the luck of the Irish had the 38 Spl bullet bounce between his legs up into the ceiling of the truck bay. Nerve wracking at the time, (discharge of a weapon in an armored truck bay? That WILL get your attention!), funny as all get out later, especially the video of him dropping trou to check his abused behind!
The high speed vasectomy I have heard of, but never witnessed. I heard a guy did it to himself down here many years ago with a super short sawed off 12 ga. I believe he may have died from the wound, don't remember, years ago.

Pilgrim
May 6, 2007, 11:31 AM
Over twenty years ago in Ventura County, CA. A robber stuck a cocked Derringer in his waistband in preparation to holding up a liquor store. Shot his 'friendly' weapon when the guardless trigger snagged on his belt.

Pilgrim

Notch
May 6, 2007, 11:54 AM
I wouldnt assume it doesnt happen any more often when a firearm is uncocked or the safety is on. I have to admit I at times will go mexican if I am at home and the pizza guy comes to the door or the like, but normaly I leave my holster on all day. Carrying a pistol ANY WAY cocked and unlocked is just stoooooopid.

Green Lantern
May 6, 2007, 12:04 PM
Happened to a small-time Canadian hitman named Chang Thong Vo, who became known on the street as "No Wang Vo" after sticking a .45 in his front waistband, sans holster, and had a mishap...

LOL!!! :D :D :D

It does not help that companies sell such things as 'clips' to attach to guns to carry without a holster - EVEN on DAOs like my Glock and P3AT! :banghead:

I must admit, I *have* stuck my Bersa in my waistband before, but never any farther than from my house to my car to stick it in the glovebox. IIRC, I stuck it on either the right or left at 3:00, canted forward. Safer for me, not so much for who or what ever is behind me...!

Anyhow, I don't carry the Bersa muchanymore (as I have something bigger and smaller now), but would never actually "carry" it "Mexican style."

elrod
May 6, 2007, 12:17 PM
The good thing is the chance of further offspring from these cosmic thinkers is erased! Darwin in action.

Chad
May 6, 2007, 12:22 PM
"Think of it as evolution in action." :evil:

Archie
May 6, 2007, 12:41 PM
It's never happened to me. I've carried cocked and locked 1911s, a Star BKM, various S&W double action revolvers and an occasional single action for about forty years now with never a shot through me or my trousers.

Actually, the practise was pretty common when I started. I remember comments from both the late Elmer Keith and the late Skeeter Skelton admitted they had carried in such fashion. Mr. Keith died at age 85 or so from old age and Mr. Skelton died from unrelated health problems. I personally knew many other old timers who "Mexican carried" on a regular basis.

Then again, us old guys carry those dangerous single action autos and outmoded wheel guns.


Perhaps I'm just lucky.

akodo
May 6, 2007, 12:54 PM
guns shoot when the trigger is pulled. Pushing the gun into your pants (or holster) or taking it out with your finger already on the trigger will make it go BANG. Second, are there any other things down there that might snag the trigger as you put it in our out (and no, I am not counting the sex organ, unless you are packing that wierdly, it isn't around the trigger when doing a wasiteband carry.


Really though, waistband carry isn't all that risky for discharge, it is risky for the gun to fall out. especially if there is running, sitting, or hell anythign but standing still just like you were BEFORE you put the gun in your pants

Chad
May 6, 2007, 12:58 PM
I had a need once to carry my Ruger Security Six IWB, so I picked up a little wrap-around holster that would hold most any full size revolver or semi, but didn't cover any of the trigger area.

I call it my "Ralph Nader holster...unsafe at any caliber". :p

JohnL2
May 6, 2007, 01:02 PM
Bad idea to carry like that any way you cut it. Looks cool in the movies. Flat out dumb, stupid, and idiotic to do that in real life.

benEzra makes a great point too.

Jomax
May 6, 2007, 08:51 PM
If you carry a Glock, they sell a plastic block that fits directly behind the trigger to prevent AD's and pops out instantly if you flick it with your trigger finger. Tried it in the store and looked to work pretty good.

RNB65
May 6, 2007, 08:53 PM
Anyone dumb enough to carry a gun in their waistband without a holster deserves whatever happens.

FortyCalGlock
May 6, 2007, 09:01 PM
I've carried my P-32 with the clip IWB on my hip quite a bit. Actually it is my favorite carry gun. You completely forget its there and with that trigger it has, It would be hard to AD IMO. But' I would never carry Mexican.

Im283
May 6, 2007, 09:18 PM
"Mexican carried"

Isn't that where the term "belly gun" came from?

The Unknown User
May 6, 2007, 09:22 PM
Is anyone really bothered by the idea of being castrated by a gun discharging by accident? :(

Man, I hope that never happens.

A cop told me of a friend of his (also a cop) that shot himself in the testicles while tucking in a compact Glock “Mexican style”. Ouch! Always use holsters.

FerFALOuch, I can't even fathom how badly that must have hurt. I feel bad for him because he's one of the "good guys."

I mean, what do you do in that situation? I'd probably sit there going "What the hell did I just do?!" I hope he doesn't get teased about it.

joab
May 6, 2007, 10:44 PM
When I first started on the forums I read a thread somewhere about a guy tucking a 1911 Mexican at 4:00 and shooting himself in the butt, actually through both cheeks

The self shooter assumed that it was because the gun was a Norinco

Dorryn
May 6, 2007, 11:11 PM
While I am certainly concerned about accidentally shooting myself in the wang despite my cheapy Uncle Mikes holster, IWB is too uncomfortable at 4 or 5 o'clock, and I can pretty much only carry at 1 or 2...

Recommendations for a better holster that wont break the pocketbook of a broke student/newlywed?

ripcurlksm
May 7, 2007, 12:11 AM
If it helps, I never heard of it happening twice to the same person.


hah classic

dont do it... IWB holster

CNYCacher
May 7, 2007, 01:06 AM
I mean, what do you do in that situation?

After shooting yourself in the testicles?

Step 1: Drop mag, empty chamber.
Step 2: Throw magazine and loose round as far as you can.
Step 3: Fall to ground, scream.
Step 4: Call 911
Step 5: Wait for ambulance
Step 6: Recover
Step 7: Thank CNYCacher for providing step 1 and 2, which ensured that you survived step 5 :evil:

Gordon Fink
May 7, 2007, 03:46 AM
So rarely that is might as well be never, statistically speaking. Still not a very bight idea.

~G. Fink

230RN
May 7, 2007, 05:22 AM
Thanks, Archie:

It's never happened to me. I've carried cocked and locked 1911s, a Star BKM, various S&W double action revolvers and an occasional single action for about forty years now with never a shot through me or my trousers.

Actually, the practise was pretty common when I started. I remember comments from both the late Elmer Keith and the late Skeeter Skelton admitted they had carried in such fashion. Mr. Keith died at age 85 or so from old age and Mr. Skelton died from unrelated health problems. I personally knew many other old timers who "Mexican carried" on a regular basis.

Then again, us old guys carry those dangerous single action autos and outmoded wheel guns.

I've never had a problem with it, either, but then again, I don't carry cocked and locked, which is another gun-politically incorrect thing. (Although I do use a holster when I'm afield.) Oh, and I also carry cross-draw. :eek:

Expertise varies --and so does one's Civility Quotient.

Sign me,
Sixty-seven-plus years, and still Mexican Carrying.

Let the fur fly.

ArfinGreebly
May 7, 2007, 07:31 PM
There was a tale a while back about that.

You'll find an entertaining mention here (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=1421723#post1421723).

I'll excerpt a little of it here:
Young Eduardo De La Dancefloor decided that this was, indeed, an insult too great to be borne so he pulled out what seems to have been a chromed Raven Arms .25, pointed it at the Kings and engaged in what seems to have been a truly inspired Alpha Male display.

The Kings chose (for once) the better part of valour and hauled butt out the side door of the club.

Young Eduardo then turned in triumph to his little pack, and in a manner calculated to cause swooning in any brainless girl-child desperate (or stupid) enough to hang out with Mexicano gangsters, whirls the little silver auto around his shootin' finger, flips it back the other way, then back again, and proceeds to, err ... manfully ... thrust it home into the front of his waistband.

Ahem.

Children, the Four Rules of Shooting are not just Rules, they are a damned fine idea. Two of them especially, in this case.

Yeah.

My friends, I have seen the impossible. I have a one shot stop utilizing a single, lonesome .25ACP FMJ.

otasan
May 7, 2007, 08:40 PM
Anyone dumb enough to carry a gun in their waistband without a holster deserves whatever happens.

I carry a G17 a la Mexicana with 15 cartridges in the magazine, and one in the chamber. I have a fool-proof method of carrying that keeps the G17 from firing, even if the trigger is pulled. I'm no dummy! ;)

Alexfubar
May 7, 2007, 08:58 PM
I believe " Mexican Carry" is 4 or 5 o:clock ( depending on butt size ) through the belt , Outside the pants , barrel/slide in rear pocket. It can't fall downwards , shoot the genitals or go bang unless the trigger is pulled with the safety off ... add a backstrap safety and one will not have a problem.

Carrying in front is something else. And definately a bad idea.

joab
May 7, 2007, 09:18 PM
Mexican carry is shoving it into you waistband without the aide of a holster
What time it is doesn't matter

Axel Foley Maxicaned SOB

sig228
May 7, 2007, 09:45 PM
If it helps, I never heard of it happening twice to the same person.

SURELY, you all have read this story:

http://www.wayodd.com/would-be-kidnapper-shoots-himself-in-groin/v/5770/

Not the brightest bulb in the box.......:p

Jeff F
May 7, 2007, 10:47 PM
I have mexican carried a 1911 and a security six a few times but try to use a proper holster when possible.

X Who
May 7, 2007, 11:14 PM
Release the squeeze cocker and stuff it in the pants, no problem. Even squeezing the cocking mechanism with the trigger pulled is no problem, you have to release the trigger to get it to reset. I've carried it that (3 o'clock position) and with a belt it's reasonably secure. Didn't carry all day though.

Geronimo45
May 8, 2007, 12:51 AM
Never Mexican Carry a machine pistol.

Silver Bullet
May 8, 2007, 01:38 AM
A couple years ago, the whackos over at DU were talking about getting guns. One of the members here who is a dealer said he'd be glad to sell guns to them.

I recommended selling them Thunderwear and Glocks. :evil:

expvideo
May 8, 2007, 02:27 AM
Anyone dumb enough to carry a gun in their waistband without a holster deserves whatever happens.

Excuse me, but that's a pretty rude thing to say. I've mexican carried since I began carrying. My father has done the same. So did his father. And so on.

There is NOTHING dangerous about mexican carry. In fact, I'd imagine more people have AD's with a real holster. The only reason you have an AD re-holstering (even if you mexican carry) is if you have your finger on the trigger. Anything else (custom wide triggers excluded) is a myth. Guns don't pull triggers, fingers pull triggers. Follow the gun safety rules and you'll be fine.

I carry a sig with a 12 pound trigger. It's not going off without my finger on it, and there's nothing to snag on. I'm getting really tired of this attitude that people have against those of us that don't want to spend $100+ on a holster. Anti-mexican-carry statements are nothing but snobbery. It's just as safe as anything else, if you know what you're doing.

Zen21Tao
May 8, 2007, 02:37 AM
I think it all comes down to common sense. I have tossed a few different guns in my pocket without a holster to run out for a quick errand but they were always double actions with a long triggers and I had nothing else was in the pockets. However, I would never think of tossing my Glock 27 or 29 or a compact "cocked and locked" 1911 in my pocket; or worse, in my waist band, with a live round in the chamber.

Nomad, 2nd
May 8, 2007, 02:43 AM
I've Mex carried my 1911's... but I would NEVER carry a Glock that way.

I did Mex carry my Kel Tec when I went running... with an empty chamber!!!!!

230RN
May 8, 2007, 04:44 AM
I told you the fur would fly....

expvideo:


"Anyone dumb enough to carry a gun in their waistband without a holster deserves whatever happens."

Excuse me, but that's a pretty rude thing to say. I've mexican carried since I began carrying. My father has done the same. So did his father. And so on.

I tried to make a subtle remark about civility. Thank you for seeing the need to point this out a little more clearly.

I carry a sig with a 12 pound trigger. It's not going off without my finger on it, and there's nothing to snag on. I'm getting really tired of this attitude that people have against those of us that don't want to spend $100+ on a holster. Anti-mexican-carry statements are nothing but snobbery. It's just as safe as anything else, if you know what you're doing.

Thank you again. Actually, I Mexican Park mine at 10:00-11:00, in cross-draw mode. And I do use holsters, as I mentioned, when afield.

I am always amused at all the Ki-Yi-ing that goes on when one brings up this subject.

Ala Dan
May 8, 2007, 05:12 AM
It won't happen if the user "keeps his/her booger picker off of the boom switch"~! ;) :D

perpster
May 8, 2007, 07:05 AM
Well, I used to speak in a much lower voice.

1911Tuner
May 8, 2007, 07:49 AM
Didn't witness it, but heard about it from an eyewitness.


10...Maybe 12 years ago... A 30-ish guy shows up at a turkey shoot over in Walnut Cove...Dunno why they named the town that, since there ain't an ocean within 200 miles, or a lake within 10...but there it is.

Anyway...Guy shows up at a turkey shoot, drunk. They wouldn't let him participate, so he starts raggin' at all the shooters tryin' to win the big country ham, and announces that he can knock the center out of the target with a pistol.

Proceeds to pull a 1911 from the front of his waistband and blazes away at the target. Sure enough...about the 3rd or 4th round, he nails it dead-center. Smug and grinnin' like a 'possum, he stuffs the gun back where he pulled it from...finger on the trigger, of course, and the safety still in the "off" position. Bang!

I won't describe the wound any further than to say that his bloodline ended with his youngest son...assuming that he had a son. Luckily, Stokes County requires that medical assisstance be on-hand for organized turkey shoots, and a paramedic was able to keep him from bleedin' to death.

kellyj00
May 8, 2007, 10:12 AM
next time you're handling used guns at your local gun shop...remember where they could have been once.

Always wear gloves when visiting an adult movie store or a gun shop. It's just sound advice.

expvideo
May 8, 2007, 11:54 AM
I tried to make a subtle remark about civility. Thank you for seeing the need to point this out a little more clearly.


There's nothing subtle or high road about calling me or my family dumb. Nor is it subtle to suggest that we diserve injuries. I appreciate your light-heartedness about this subject, but that was an inappropriate remark.

This is what was said:
Anyone dumb enough to carry a gun in their waistband without a holster deserves whatever happens

That's not a "subtle remark about civility". That's an offensive attack against people who do things differently than you.

Jkwas
May 8, 2007, 12:18 PM
I recently put a clipdraw on my PT111 to see how it would work out. It's ok for a quick run out, but I can't bring myself to use it with 1 in the chamber, so it's only practical to a point. I'm currently waiting for a proper holster that covers the trigger so I can carry it ready to go.

Lonestar49
May 8, 2007, 01:23 PM
...

I'm sure this happens a lot, in that, my bet is that those that do, are in a rush for whatever, and have either a DA/SA type gun in SA mode, or a SA or DA only, with, or, have a gun with a trigger-job that has been "worked" and it takes but a touch and it goes boom.

Here's what I see happening; in either putting it in their paints, or taking it out, they have their finger inside the trigger guard, or on the trigger, and in their haste, they accidentally waste themselves.

And the golden rule of finger off the trigger, and outside the trigger guard, until you know what your going to shoot, and where the bullet will go if you miss, did not apply.


LS

Gnarkill
May 9, 2007, 05:24 AM
If you put a gun ANYWHERE, especially in your pants you deserve to blow your butt off. An IWB holster costs $25 or $30, it's not alot.

Edited for language. Family forum, lad. Let's keep it a bit cleaner.

-Tuner-

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