bulged/split brass out of my Glock 20?


PDA






Jordan
May 6, 2007, 11:19 AM
Granted, I've been shooting "Buffalo Bore" (a commercially offered "hot" load similar to CorBon) but my brass is coming out badly bulged out at 6 O'clock where the feed ramp enters the chamber and about 60% of the cases are split/cracked vertically.

My knowledge tells me this is most likely a oversized chamber issue since the only other thing I think of is overworked, handloaded brass... which isn't the case here. Might the chamber be out of spec? Does Glock use SuperSloppy chambers to achieve their touted reliability?

I did buy this gun second hand, but the chamber/feedramp area do not appear to have been monkeyed with... original finish.

Thanks for your ideas.

If you enjoyed reading about "bulged/split brass out of my Glock 20?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Peter M. Eick
May 6, 2007, 12:05 PM
Sounds like my G20. Glock throats the ramp a lot so you get the "glock smile" if you shoot hot loads. While this still could be an over sized chamber, I somewhat doubt it.

I solved the problem by buying a KKM 6" barrel and comp. Worked great, more accurate then the factory barrel and was a tighter chamber. Also it was fully supported so you could shoot "nuclear" levels of reloads out of it.

Good luck.

Master Blaster
May 6, 2007, 07:45 PM
Its also possible your Buffalo Bore ammo is out of spec, I would contact buffalo bore, and I wouldnt shoot anymore of that ammo.
Could be an overcharge, even for them.

Personally I am highly skeptical of ammo companies who get 200-300 fps more out of a round than anybody else, and claim the ammo is within saami spec pressure.

They dont have a secret magical formula, or any special magic bullets. What they are doing is loading without the safety margin other companies build into their ammo. The are loading out to the max, and then hoping that their customer's guns arent on the tight side of the tollerance. So when you shoot Corbon or Buffalo bore be aware, that the chance of the gun blowing up in your face is much greater than when you shoot federal, or speer, or remington ammo.

I dont shoot corbon or buffalo bore ammo out of my guns.

But thats just me.:)

Rinspeed
May 7, 2007, 08:33 AM
That's exactly why they blow up. Having fired brass that is bulged is not a good thing.

Peter M. Eick
May 7, 2007, 08:03 PM
While I won't disagree it is possible that it might be out of spec, my experience is similar with my G20. Out of my 610's the same round that would "smile" my G20 showed no signs of pressure using case head expansion techniques. I have shot the same ammo (nuclear reloads) out of a Witness with no pressure signs, so why out of a G20 does it smile?

Could remotely, just possibly, maybe, just an iota of chance, be that the G20 is over ramped for 10mm ammo made to the original spec and not to 40 short and weak levels.

Just a chance though......

treeprof
May 7, 2007, 10:36 PM
Two G20's here, w/no bulges, smilies, case splits or anything else shooting lotsa DoubleTap and Corbon, along w/various other stuff incl. original Norma loads, Ga Arms, CCI Blazer, UMC and Win Silvertips. Haven't fed them any Buff Bore.

10-Ring
May 7, 2007, 10:50 PM
Sounds like an over charge to me. I'd be careful to avoid the notorious kb! :eek: ;)

1911ShooterTJ
May 8, 2007, 12:16 AM
Glocks do not have a fully supported chamber, and can cause hot loads to bulge or even blow out, especially in a high-pressure round such as the .40 S&W

Here is some more information: http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html

Sundles
May 8, 2007, 09:10 AM
Folks,

I own Buffalo Bore Ammo Inc and I can tell you that the ammo is not "over pressure"--it indeed fits into SAAMI +P specs for 45 acp+p ammunition. In fact it is under Max. SAAMI specs.

I personally have three different Glock Mod. 21 pistols. None of my three show a buldge in fired +p Starline brass.

Additionally it should be noted that Starline makes the +p 45 acp brass and it is a far different brass than standard 45 acp. It has a greatly reinforced web. If this brass is buldging and even splitting, this particular Glock has a much enlarge chamber or perhaps a super tight out of spec barrel that is driving pressures way up. It is not normal for this brass to show any undue pressue signs from any pistol, including a Glock.

The powder we use for our 45 acp+p and 45 Super is made in Australia for military applications. It is very low pressure, high energy stuff that is flash supressed. Again, it genreates all this power, at under SAMMI max. for 45 acp+p.

We have seen many early Glocks with larger ramped areas in the chamber that will buldge standard cases with sandard pressure loads. The newer Glocks have better support in the chamber area. This is one reason that earlier Glocks had more kabooms, but later Glocks are not having as many. Seems that Glock figured it out.

I dont know anything about the Glock in question in this thread, but something is wrong with the pistol if the cases are splitting. I PERSONALLY test fire each new batch of ammo we make IN EVERY CALIBER. No ammo is manufactured till I test it in our factory guns and check the results with past manufacturing lot #'s.

XDKingslayer
May 8, 2007, 11:53 AM
The reason this happens is simple.

Glock uses non-fully supported chambers in order to enhance feed reliability. (and the reason I'll never own a Glock) This is why. Take your barrel out and drop a round into the chamber and see how much of the case is showing. You'll clearly see why your cases are bulged.

This is why Glocks are prone to KABOOM with a bad reload. There is nothing there to contain it.

Sundles you ar absolutely wrong. It IS normal for a Glock to show undue pressure signs because of the non-fully supported barrel. It will do it with normal rounds and it will do it worse with +p rounds.

The only Glock that really doesn't do it is the .45 GAP models and that is because the case webbing on the GAP is much thicker.

Master Blaster
May 8, 2007, 01:38 PM
Sundles you ar absolutely wrong. It IS normal for a Glock to show undue pressure signs because of the non-fully supported barrel. It will do it with normal rounds and it will do it worse with +p rounds.

The only Glock that really doesn't do it is the .45 GAP models and that is because the case webbing on the GAP is much thicker.

You dont own any Glocks right??? That is what you said.:)

I have fired thousands of rounds out of my 9mm glocks, normal pressure, +P factory, and my own reloads.

I have never ever seen any bulged brass come out of one of my glocks, G34 or G26. 9mm is a high pressure pistol round. Further the unsupported case head story is a bunch of crap. If you take a .45acp 1911 barrel and compare it to a glock barrel side by side with a round dropped in each one, you will see that there is no difference in the amount of the case head that is unsupported.

If it were true, with all of the Glocks issued to police departments there would be thousands of injured police officers, and Glock would no longer be in business.

If a case from a fired round bulges and splits, its either because the pistol has a serious mechanical defect, that is allowing it to fire out of battery, or the round is overloaded with propellant.

If the pistol has a mechanical problem it will happen with any ammo, because a brass case cannot contain the pressure of any round unless the chamber of the gun is supporting it.

But this story goes on and on.

Lennyjoe
May 8, 2007, 01:39 PM
The infamous "glocksmiles".

That's caused by the unsupported chambers of the factory Glock barrels.

To remedy that you can buy a Storm Lake barrel for $98 and have a fully supported barrel to shoot all the hot loads you desire.

www.topglock.com has them. http://www.topglock.com/catalog/barrels_stormlake.htm

Sounds like the ammo you are using is loaded pretty darn hot. I got glocksmiles using Blue Dot on the high end when I first purchased my pistol. Since I reload I opted for the fully supported barrel to save my brass.

Sundles
May 8, 2007, 03:04 PM
XDkingslayer,

PLEASE go back and reread my post.

I wrote:" It is not normal for this BRASS to show any undue pressure sings from any pistol including a Glock." ITS THE BRASS IM SPEAKING OF--I know that with normal 45 acp brass most Glocks will show a buldge.

The brass I am speaking of is Starline brass that is head stamped 45 acp+p. This brass is not normal 45 acp brass--it is much stronger in the web.

If you'll go back and carefully read the post, you'll see that I agreed with you about Glocks, but it will take a more careful reading on your part.

Sundles
May 8, 2007, 03:10 PM
Mater Blaster,

A couple issues:

9mm brass is very strong in the web. So, you can shoot 9mm brass in an unsuported chamber without much if any buldging. 45 ACP brass is, on the other hand, very weak in the web--unless it is Starline +P 45 acp brass.

Further, not all Glocks in identical chamberings have the same ammount of unsuported chamber. Over the years, Glock has quietly provided more and more suport in their chambers, because they did have so many kabooms and they DID have a slight design flaw in thier chambers, but current Glocks are much better.

Like all products, the manufacturers tend to make them better over time. Glock is no exception. Glock may never live down some of their early production big chambers, as folks seem to think that Glocks made today, are the same as Glocks made ten years ago, ut would be wrong.

Larryect
May 8, 2007, 03:36 PM
This is all really interesting. However the OP was commenting about his Glock 20 which is 10mm. :scrutiny:

Sundles
May 8, 2007, 04:45 PM
DUH! I feel like an idiot now.

Jordan,

The starline 10mm brass we use is very sturdy in the web. It should not be splitting when fired out of your Glock, period. We sell boat loads of this 10mm load and I have never heard your complaint before, so I would think that your Glock has a problem. I developed this load using two Glock 20's and a couple 1911's. While the Glock 20's showed a slight buldge in the case where the chamber is unsuported, we have never seen any splitting.

rmgunsmith
January 30, 2008, 06:00 PM
Ok folks,

I installed a new Storm Lake barrel, Wolff one piece steel guide rod and 20# recoil spring. I shot four 15 round magazines with no problem, using both PMC 200 grain factory ammo and my reloads with 800x and new starline brass.

On the fifth magazine, 2nd shot, the Glock literally blew up in my hands! The magazine, guide rod, and recoil spring went flying out on the range floor. The polymer frame cracked big time, as well as the new Strom Lake barrel, which was split the full length, and if it had not been contained by the slide would have cracked in three spots. The force of the explosion was so great that when the barrel tried to blow apart, it swelled the end of the beefed up Glock 20 slide.

I am sending the gun back to my wholesale supplier who said they would send it to Glock. If I am reimbursed with another Glock 20, I am going to sell it and use the money to but an American made 1911.:cuss:

rcmodel
January 30, 2008, 06:03 PM
Why would Glock even be interested?

Sounds like your reloads & the Storm Lake barrel is what blew the Glock up.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

Prince Yamato
January 30, 2008, 06:08 PM
OH dear God... another kB! thread... mods, can we get the trolls outta here?

If you had a real kB! please, take pictures of it as proof. Post them here. We will write letters to Glock on behalf of you and our own safety concerns. In addition, post the draft of your letter to Glock concerning this product safety issue.

If you're lying out your ____ and trolling like other recent posters, go hang out at AR-15.com or similar forum.

Again:

A product safety loophole would be a great way to get guns banned. Antis are desperate and would look for ANY reason to get a gun banned.

If this is a true problem, then please post in Activism or General discussions about your safety issue. Others will be glad to help you. If not, troll somewhere else.

Larryect
January 30, 2008, 06:38 PM
I don't think you can hold Glock responsible for another makers barrel.....

Seems like if the barrel cracked or split it was a failure of the barrel or a serious overload.

mpmarty
January 30, 2008, 06:48 PM
I doubt this fellow is a troll. He's been lurking on here since 2005 and posted less than twenty times. Impossible for troll to keep his yap shut that long. Do not discount an out of battery discharge as a culprit here. A high primer on a reload can initiate the round while the slide is unlocked.

Larryect
January 30, 2008, 08:50 PM
Do not discount an out of battery discharge as a culprit here. A high primer on a reload can initiate the round while the slide is unlocked.


Could this type of failure cause the barrel to split/buldge?

.

rmgunsmith
March 25, 2008, 06:46 PM
The final verdict from Glock: "There was a "squib" load and another round fired behind it that caused the explosion. Our barrels are much harder steel and if our barrel would have been installed when this incident happened it would not have caused a total explosion."

I retract what I said about Glocks and FYI they sent me a new frame, and a new slide, with two new 15 round magazines. I am using my orginal Glock 20 barrel. They did charge me for this but it was a lot less than a new Glock 20.

Glock will stand behind their products.

I plan on keeping my Glock 20 and shooting it wisely.

rmgunsmith
March 25, 2008, 06:47 PM
The final verdict from Glock: "There was a "squib" load and another round fired behind it that caused the explosion. Our barrels are much harder steel and if our barrel would have been installed when this incident happened it would not have caused a total explosion."

I retract what I said about Glocks and FYI they sent me a new frame, and a new slide, with two new 15 round magazines. I am using my orginal Glock 20 barrel. They did charge me for this but it was a lot less than a new Glock 20.

Glock will stand behind their products.

I plan on keeping my Glock 20 and shooting it wisely.:)

jfh
March 25, 2008, 07:56 PM
As I have posted previously, my early Glock 20 kaBoomed at about round 283, while shooting a mild reload.

At the time (January '98) that it happened, the Glock receptionist expressed her sympathy--but didn't even put me through to Customer Service.

Last fall, when I inquired about getting a new receiver if I sent in the parts (I was considering building a 10mm carbine), they offered me that deal, too--IIRC, it was about $250.00 for essentially a new pistol.

I would hope that Glock has continued to improve their product--but, quite honestly, I don't want to own another one.

Further to the original post, however, it does sound to me like a chamber out of spec, if Sundles is confident of no brass or charge problems with his ammo.

Jim H.

bluto
March 25, 2008, 08:06 PM
+1 on Peter M. Eick's suggestion to buy and install a KKM Match barrel.

I had unsettling ballooning of ejected factory casings from my 2nd Gen. G22. (I know, I know, not ALL G22's experience this, but mine did). I bought and installed a KKM Match barrel and the ballooning disappeared, accuracy improved greatly, and reliability remained outstanding.

Drail
March 25, 2008, 08:32 PM
I think it is important to remember that Gaston Glock is a very successful businessman, he is not and never has been a weapons engineer. If unknowing consumers are willing to buy polymer pistols with insufficient case support to shoot high pressure cartridges then they're going to have these problems. Glock and all of their supporters can deny all they want and it's still going to happen. Knowledge is power. There are better designs available. It's your hands and your choice. Flame suit on. Fire at will.

If you enjoyed reading about "bulged/split brass out of my Glock 20?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!