looking for the post of the image "30 of 32 killed after Police arrived, Carry a Gun:


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merkaba
May 6, 2007, 11:08 PM
hey all, I'm looking for the post of the image "30 of 32 killed after Police arrived, Carry a Gun: the lives you save may be more than yours" or something very similar to that.

I've searched but I can't find it. I want the image for a pro CCW speech I have to give.

thanks

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pax
May 6, 2007, 11:15 PM
From Oleg Volk at http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/?skip=20
(where you'll find the hi-res version)

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=57682&stc=1&d=1178504070

pax

RockyMtnTactical
May 6, 2007, 11:30 PM
Sad but true...

The Deer Hunter
May 6, 2007, 11:32 PM
Well, the police seem to be quite handy 'eh? Like I dont mean to hate on officers but whats the point if they are just going to carry off the bodies?

RockyMtnTactical
May 6, 2007, 11:37 PM
LE as a whole are great people and have an important job, but they simply can't be everywhere at once.

merkaba
May 6, 2007, 11:51 PM
thanks,
I agree RockyMtnTactical
Police can't be everywhere (great reason to protect yourself).
I also can't bash on the Police for this. The 911 call in Norris Hall wasn't made until the shooting started. And then when the Police arrived the doors were chained.
I read he fired 170 shots in 9 minutes.

pax
May 6, 2007, 11:51 PM
Deer Hunter ~

People, as a whole, do not understand what a police officer's job is.

The officer's job isn't to save lives -- although he may do that, on any given shift.

His job isn't to make traffic drive the speed limit -- though he can often accomplish that merely by sitting next to the road in a visible spot.

His job isn't to prevent any specific crime or even crime-in-the-abstract -- although merely by existing, he does that.

The job of a police officer is to apprehend criminals. That is, to catch them after the fact. After a crime has been committed, the officer's job is to bring the offender before the bar of justice. That's it. That is the heart and soul of a police officer's job.

All the other good and not-so-good stuff officers do is merely a side effect of this one, major, civilization-saving task.

There is no sense in getting all hot 'n bothered at police officers who didn't save a life, who didn't get the call, or who arrived on scene without the numbers or immediate organization to stop an attack while it's happening. Stopping attacks is a handy side effect of what they do, but stopping such attacks is not their job.

Their job is to catch the criminal ... after the criminal has committed the crime.

pax

Hardtarget
May 7, 2007, 12:02 AM
Pax...you stated almost exactly what I've said many times.

It is great when the police do stop a criminal act...it just doesn't happen very often. Not their fault, criminals try to time their attacks when there are no police around.

All we can do is try to protect ourselves.

Whoops...everything I said was OT, wsn't it?

Mark.

usp9
May 7, 2007, 12:05 AM
Anyone bother to ask exactly how Oleg Volk happens to know this is true or pure BS. I personally think it is pure BS. That means your speech will be so too. Truth and facts make a better arguement, don't you think?

pax
May 7, 2007, 12:19 AM
usp9 ~

Two of the people were shot nearly two hours before the other shootings began (the two who were shot in the dorm). During the two hours after those shootings, officers were on the campus investigating the earlier shootings. Also during that time, the shooter made a disgusting video and mailed it to a news station, then went over to the other building on campus where the majority of the shootings took place.

Matter of public record.

pax

merkaba
May 7, 2007, 12:20 AM
how is it BS?
The police were already on campus 2 hours before the Norris Hall murders because they were investigating the previous 2 murders in the dorm. To me this means they were not very far away, I read about 1/2 a mile from dorm to Norris Hall.

I'm not trying to bash cops. The doors were chained and it was probably hard to get to the guy in less than 9 minutes.

To me it points out that even if cops are close by its still a good idea to protect yourself because some nut might chain the doors, blocking their entry and go on a rampage.

I'm open minded, if you can convince me this is BS I'll gladly stand corrected.

ripcurlksm
May 7, 2007, 12:30 AM
I caught so much flak from another college music forum I frequent for using that image as my signature... a lot of good discussion came of it too, however most people just got mad.

Im283
May 7, 2007, 02:11 AM
As good as most LEO's are they are not here to protect us.

That is what the 2A is for in my opinion.

The Unknown User
May 7, 2007, 02:32 AM
Hindsight is 20/20. Taking a jab at law enforcement isn't called for. The person who is responsible for those 32 deaths is not a law enforcement officer. Don't even try to act like it is.

And even if police did get their in time, how can you be sure nobody else would have died?

pax
May 7, 2007, 02:35 AM
Rob87 ~

I think that's kinda the point of the poster: the police couldn't save those lives, even when they were actually on the scene. It doesn't say they didn't want to. It says they couldn't.

That means it is up to the individual to be prepared to protect himself or herself. Nobody else can do that job, because nobody else is with you 100% of the time in all circumstances. The only person who is always present everywhere and every time you might be in danger ... is yourself.

pax

usp9
May 7, 2007, 09:19 AM
What does it matter that cops were 1/2 mile away. The police are on campus 24/7. Your statements comes out as a "bash" against cops whether you intend it or not. Unlike Columbine, these cops did enter the building as soon as possible. I took offense at the original post for the same reason I think this one stinks...it strongly implies a false, slanderous charge, and that is the BS.

M92FS
May 7, 2007, 10:13 AM
quote by pax :
That means it is up to the individual to be prepared to protect himself or herself. Nobody else can do that job, because nobody else is with you 100% of the time in all circumstances. The only person who is always present everywhere and every time you might be in danger ... is yourself.


+1
well said.

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