Lost firearm luggage


PDA






#shooter
May 7, 2007, 11:02 AM
I would like to bring my firearm, but I fear it will be lost and the airline has no duty to compensate me for it. Plus I will be missing my firearm - first rule of a gunfight and all.

X does not accept liability for loss, damage, or delay of firearms, handguns, and ammunition. Excess valuation insurance may not be purchased for transport of firearms, handguns, and ammunition.

Has anyone lost a gun with the airlines? I noticed most airlines waive liability for firearms luggage.

If you enjoyed reading about "Lost firearm luggage" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Werewolf
May 7, 2007, 11:18 AM
Is this policy for all airlines or just particular airline.

Sounds like the perfect way to encourage theft of firearms by employees. Since the airline assumes no responsibility one must assume they also don't waste anytime investigating the loss thus an airline employee can pretty much take any firearm he/she comes across without fear of being caught.

RE: Lost firearms while flying:

Cannot address that since I've never lost one and won't in the future since I no longer fly commercial. I refuse to be treated like a common criminal by a government I served honorably for 13 years. Until the JBT's of the TSA go bye-bye, flying commercial will not be a part of any travel plans I make.

woo18
May 7, 2007, 11:20 AM
What airline is this? I am sure they may change their minds when the issue of stolen firearms occur and they have various LE agencies breathing down their necks.

HUMONGO
May 7, 2007, 12:11 PM
I flew Southwest from Pittsburgh to Memphis to go deer hunting at my father's place in Mississippi. They loaded my rifle onto an earlier flight into Memphis that was booked (why I had to take a later flight). I was freaking out when I got there and my rifle didn't come out with my luggage. I had to wait 3 hrs for them to find it. They told me that they don't usually compensate for firearms.

.cheese.
May 7, 2007, 12:15 PM
Why is my firearm less worthy than my socks? If that's how they feel, I suddenly don't feel the need to fly. There are other means of transportation.

#shooter
May 7, 2007, 12:23 PM
Is this policy for all airlines or just particular airline.
I haven’t checked every airline, but of the few I have used either waive it or don't say they will or will not compensate.

romma
May 7, 2007, 12:31 PM
Um, if a firearm is lost, you can bet your bottom dollar the TSA is going to back track every last footstep of it's journey and investigate anyone that might have handled it... Odds are good the'll find it in this day and age..

Eyesac
May 7, 2007, 12:32 PM
If that's the way it is, I'm going to have to find a way to have my FFL FedEx next day air it to an FFL at my destiniation... or something.

Damien45
May 7, 2007, 12:32 PM
Honestly I would not worry too much about it. Especially if you have Home Owner's or Renter's Insurance. If you have either your firearm (assuming it is within policy limits of value) and luggage (all contents) are covered.

I have not lost a firearm in luggage, or luggage in general, on an airline yet.

~knock on wood~

kludge
May 7, 2007, 12:43 PM
A person I work with recently lost $7000 in guns+scopes (two rifles) after a hunting trip in Mexico. He only received $3500 from the airlines.

Sorry, but guns don't get "lost" no matter what they tell you.

civilian
May 7, 2007, 12:50 PM
Didn't lose it, but on two flights I arrived and the bag did not. At least not until several flights later. Most recently I had this happen on American. The safest thing to do is get your firearms added to your home/renters insurance if you haven't done so already. I'm not sure what, if any, the airline covers. I secure the case holding my weapons to the suitcase in such a way that you basically have to take the entire suitcase to get at the gun. But after that, there's not much you can do.

Incidentally, my experience has been that most bags that are stolen are actually swiped by other passengers or bag scavengers at airports. When I arrived at my location and my case did not, the baggage folks for American advised that it would probably show up on the next flight from that city. That flight wasn't scheduled to arrive for another 3 hours, roughly 1230am. They gave me the direct line for their office (I told them I had a weapon in the bag) and told me to call tomorrow. I said "no thanks - I'll wait" and did just that. In that time, several bags came in for passengers from my and earlier flights. Those bags were stacked outside the office and at any point I could have walked out of there with a full set of Tumi luggage. No one person policed the baggage and it wasn't until close to midnight (shut down time) when they started pulling bags into the office. The 1230 flight arrived and my bag (with gun) was on it, but a lucky thief could very well have walked off with that bag and the airline would never have known...

Outlaw Man
May 7, 2007, 12:52 PM
Check with some insurance companies. Many times the not liable wording is just to try to discourage claims.

Stores are "not responsible for damage done by carts," but if you file a claim with your insurance company they'll immediately call the store's insurance. It's possible this is the same way.

Of course, if it's a policy meant to discourage carrying firearms in luggage then, as TheEconomist said, there are other methods of transportation.

musher
May 7, 2007, 12:55 PM
If you're a member of the NRA you're covered for up to $1000, which would cover most handguns.

.cheese.
May 7, 2007, 01:02 PM
musher - really? Where did you read that? I am a member and that would be awesome if I'm already covered.

Run&Shoot
May 7, 2007, 01:45 PM
The main airline theft risk I have read about is on United through Chicago O'Hare. Even police returning from a convention were ripped off. The police association even issued a warning to members not to fly through Chicago with firearms. I try to avoid destinations and flight changes in the larger cities all together. If I fly back east I try to fly through Minneapolis or Cincinnati instead of Chicago. I do everything possible not to fly to or through NY, Chicago, or DC. And I avoid United altogether. Smaller airlines and smaller airports have a little less anonymity, maybe they might actually care...maybe.

Another article I read mentioned that a police M4 was stolen there. Two employees were investigated by the FBI but no arrests!

I've never had a delay or theft flying on the West coast. A TSA agent recommended using the largest TSA approved lock for the luggage, as the locks that come with luggage are usually very easy for baggage handlers or others to jimmy open. The larger locks that cost $20 or more have better mechanisms that only TSA has a key for. Of course I use heavy non-TSA locks for tha handgun case.

I like the idea of securing the gun case to the inside of the luggage itself. I also am driving whenever possible rather than flying. Still fly several times a year, but trying to avoid large airports, United, and use alternatives whenever possible.

feedthehogs
May 7, 2007, 01:48 PM
you can bet your bottom dollar the TSA is going to back track every last footstep of it's journey and investigate anyone that might have handled it
Not at all.
You assume that firearms thefts mean something special. Firearms are stolen everyday with nothing other than treating them as stolen merchandise.

Two local gun shops were broken into and the ATF never showed for either one. They were handled by local law enforcement.

There is so much theft in baggage that airlines very rarely prosecute those caught to keep the news quiet.

Only when luggage is found thrown away by a 3rd party as was the case some months ago does the news make the tv.

Son in law was flying back from Philly one day and refused to tip the baggage guy more than a few bucks. It was commented to him that if he wanted his checked bags to arrive at all, he'd better lay a better tip on the guy. This was no less than mob antics protected by the union.

Airlines and airline employee unions are a joke and do nothing to accomodate their paying passangers, they should all choke and die.

Car Knocker
May 7, 2007, 03:43 PM
TheEconomist:

$1,000 of ArmsCare coverage with your NRA membership. This plan covers insured firearms, air guns, bows and arrows against theft, accidental loss, and damage. For special provisions and limitations of the ArmsCare Plan click here. ArmsCare
http://www.nra.org/benefits.aspx

akodo
May 7, 2007, 06:32 PM
Excess valuation insurance may not be purchased for transport of firearms, handguns, and ammunition

Simple solution, throw a cheap watch into the gun case, and put excess valuation insurance on that.

Chawbaccer
May 7, 2007, 07:55 PM
If that's the way it is, I'm going to have to find a way to have my FFL FedEx next day air it to an FFL at my destiniation... or something.

You can mail a gun to yourself with out involving a FFL

Car Knocker
May 7, 2007, 08:06 PM
You can mail a gun to yourself with out involving a FFL
Legally, yes. But which carrier will do it (handgun)?

Damien45
May 7, 2007, 08:18 PM
Check with some insurance companies. Many times the not liable wording is just to try to discourage claims.


This is generally true. Most "hold harmless agreements" are not valid. Generally, since the airline requires (and most other places it is similar) you to check the bag, you have then put it in their Care, Custody and Control. Once that happens, they are indeed liable. You will probably have to use your insurance company to get them to pay, but you will get your stuff. One way or the other.

GHF
May 7, 2007, 09:50 PM
I use a non-descript piece of luggage with the pistole in. If it does not show, I have the serial number and description with me, and I will tell the TSA, call the local LEOs who provide security at the airport, and contact the ATF immediately. All from my cell in front of the airline manager...

atek3
May 7, 2007, 10:12 PM
Southwest allowed me to take 4 grand in insurance on some expensive rifles.

atek3

musher
May 7, 2007, 10:50 PM
Well I was gone for awhile, but Car Knocker covered the question.

If you keep up your membership, you're covered up to $1000, no deductible.

sierrabravo45
May 7, 2007, 11:00 PM
I flew Southwest about 2 years ago down to Texas. The flight down was fine. Guns were in a Aluminum ICC case that I have used to fly to Africa and Canada with. On the way back though, some of the baggage handlers must have had fun with the case. It looked like someone dropped it 20 feet onto a metal triangle. There was a HUGE gouge in the gun case and my laminate stock on my 10/22 was cracked. I politely showed the Southwest person on the damage done to my gun case and how the stock was cracked. I filled out a report and about a Month later I received a check for the full amount of the replacement cost of the stock. I was very happy with their customer service, and they were a great Airline to work with IMO. (I don't know if it was there baggage handlers or what happened, but they did make it right.)

TargetTerror
May 8, 2007, 01:16 AM
I have a friend with a Class III license. He told about a time when he was traveling with one of his toys, and the airline lost his bag. He went up to an attendant and explained that his bag hadn't showed up, and she proceeded to give him the usual line of bs about how it should show up within a day or so. He said, "No no, you don't understand, you are going to stop what you are doing RIGHT NOW and listen to me." He then explained that in this particular bag was his suppressed, full auto Uzi sub-machine gun, and that if it was lost, he was required to report it immediately to the ATF who would swarm to the terminal give them hell.

They found his bag within an hour :D

4D5
May 8, 2007, 02:41 AM
Was flying on a hunting trip with a $4000 big game rifle. Flight was late and he was boarding the aircraft he could see his gun in case on the cart and it was obvious it wouldn't make it on his flight.

So... he stands in the cabin doorway and summons the attendent. Say's my gun's still down on the cart. Stewardess says it will make it on the next flight, he said no it won't, it will make THIS flight. She said no you'll have to wait and get it at the next flight, please board the plane. He says nope, not until the gun case is on MY flight. She says I'll have to call security, he said start dialing. So she dials, security comes, gun gets put on HIS flight :D

If you enjoyed reading about "Lost firearm luggage" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!