[Solinvictus70]

I've been looking on various gun sale sites at these .308 battle rifles and was wondering if anyone had any input on the quality/fit/finish on these clones? I have seen the Imbel L1A1's on various sites for around $600, but the CETME's are MUCH less. Is this a quality issue? Thanks.

[surfinUSA]

L1A1/FAL is the way to go.

[Destructo6]

Yep, there's a quality issue.

Imbel has made FAL receivers under FN license for decades and does so today.

The CETMEs are built on receivers originally copied from HK versions and adapted to the CETME. The two are very similar, but not quite identical in the details. The quality of the copies varies wildly from one manufacturer to the next. It's a crapshoot.

Assembly of a HK/CETME is also a bit more involved, requireing brazing, welding, pressing, etc. FALs are more or less screw part A into part B and check alignment.

If that's not clear enough, here it is:
Go with the FAL first
If you're still interested in the HK style guns after owning the FAL, get a HK (not CETME) and do some research on what it takes to put a good one together.

[Solinvictus70]

Thanks for the information! I've seen the Imbel's going for about $500-600 on many sites. I really WANT an STG, but the price is prohibitive. If I could afford one, I would just get a Springfield SAR-8/HK91. The CETME interested me because of the history behind it and I am an old style wood stock afficianado with the milsurp rifles. The Black Ninja Rifles simply don't appeal to me. Luckily, parts and mags for the FAL series are still reasonable and it seems we have plenty of .308 ammo as well. I wondered because the $300 CETME seemed a little TOO cheap for what it seemed to be.

[dude]

Actually the HK G3/91 series of rifles are actually a clone of the Spanish CETME design. It was one of the Mauser guys who split to Spain when the gettin' was good in 45 who took part in the design

The crop of CETMEs out there now are very hit and miss quality-wise but I hear Century is good about the whole warranty thing and gets any problems solved. I had one when they first showed up ($$$) and it shot to the left.........all the parts were good 'cept for the crappy Century reciever. I unloaded it pronto. Since then I have shot another that shots dead-on but the quality of the parts is just so-so.

[Gewehr98]

The CETMEs are built on receivers originally copied from HK versions and adapted to the CETME. The two are very similar, but not quite identical in the details.

The above statement is a bit off, actually reversed, by a few years.

FAL's are somewhat easier to assemble, assuming the locking shoulders are already installed in the receiver, and properly headspaced. If you do go with an FAL clone, the Imbel receivers get good reviews. ;)

[Destructo6]

The HK G3 is not a clone of the CETME model A. Heckler, Koch, and Siedel, after leaving Mauser, were part of the design team employed by CETME. The basis for the HK and CETME was developed at Mauser, prior to the end of WW2. They formed HK during Germany's rearmament and brought back the further-developed design that eventually became the G3.

Here's the WW2-era Mauser design:
http://www.hkpro.com/image/g3stg45strip.jpg

Crude, but unmistakably the grandfather of the G3 and CETME models A&B.

They are best described as brothers or cousins rather than copies.
The CETMEs are built on receivers originally copied from HK versions and adapted to the CETME.
That should be:
The current crop of Century (et al) CETMEs are built on receivers originally copied from Special Weapons/Hesse/etc HK versions and adapted to the CETME.

[dude]

sorry, but you are quite incorrect. The Cetme was developed in Spain after WWII and bought as a design by HK in the early 50s.


..................I'll find the link with the whole story

[dude]

http://www.hk94.com/cetme-rifle.html

[dude]

the Cetme also spawned another fun gun:
http://www.angelfire.com/realm/cruffler/spanish_fr-8.htm


.............everybody should have at least one!

[Destructo6]

dude, that site is riddled with errors and lacks decent developmental history. Try HKPRO.

http://www.hkpro.com/g3.htm

BTW, CETME is the manufacturer/developer (CENTRO de ESTUDIOS TECNICOS de MATERIALES ESPECIALES now known as Empresa National Santa Barbara) , not the name of the rifle. The model C is the one typically found in the US.

[dude]

the info on your link agrees with everything I said about the design being made in Spain after the war, sold to HK in the 50s and the G3 being a clone..............thanks!

[Destructo6]

You didn't catch The first half where it stated that the design originated in the German Mauser plant?

[dude]

yes, but the Cetme A was in service many years before it's design was bought by HK and developed into the G3......ergo the G3 is a 'clone'



I understand you pround HK folks though as I are-one, but only 'cause of the fine P7.

[Destructo6]

dude, the CETME model A was adopted in 1957, which is about the same timeframe that HK spun off, helped CETME develop the model B (1958) while developing their own G3 (adopted as such in 1959).

They were developed simultaneously and jointly.

[dude]

If it makes you happy to think so!!

Don't let facts get in your way.
Intrestingly you provided all the facts that say otherwise though. I would privde more/better links but don't enjoy herding cats. Oh well, enjoy your HK.

('specally enjoy your HK91 Cetme clone if you have one!)

[pdt203]

I have done alot of reading on the CETME subject and today I am going to Larry's to pick up my CETME. There may be some work involved, but it's nothing that a real gunsmith could not handle.

Total price was $444, I got 200 rds of 7.62nato for about $40 (shipping included) off gunbroker.com.

It's a wood stock so I can refinish it and make it all purty. :)

I'll give a range report when it's all cleaned up.

Johnny in Huntsville

[Pumpkinheaver]

I know several guys at my range that bought a CETME rifle and wish they would have bought an L1A1 after they fired mine. That being said I'm thinking of buying one to "play" with myself. But my first choice was the L1A1!