[XLMiguel]

I heard this term in conversation from some old salts, & I gathered from the general drift that it was on the order of 'get a bigger hammer' kind of engineering, i.e. 'take it out on the gun deck and beat it/bend it until it fits . . .' I've also heard it applied to individuals, which I assumed to be a matter of 'attitude adjustment'.

Perhaps some of youse of the squidly persuasion could enlighten this old infantryman of the origin and taxonomy of this term. Thx in advance -

[robear]

Gundecking
In the modern Navy, falsifying documents reports, records and the like is often referred to as gundecking. The origin of the term is somewhat obscure, but at the risk of gundecking, here are two plausible explanations for its modern usage.

The deck below the upper deck on British sailing ships-of-war was called the gundeck, although it carried no guns. This false deck may have been constructed to deceive enemies as to the amount of armament carried. Thus the gundeck was a falsification.

A more plausible explanation may stem from shortcuts taken by early midshipmen when doing their navigational lessons. Each man was supposed to take sun lines at noon and star sights at night, and then go below to the gundeck, work out their calculations and show them to the navigator.

Some of these young men, however, had a special formula for getting the correct answers. They would note the noon or last position on the quarterdeck traverse board and determine the approximate current position by dead reckoning plotting. Armed with the information, they proceeded to the gundeck to "gundeck" their navigation homework by simply working backwards from the dead reckoning station.

I got this from here: http://www.cvn70.navy.mil/facts/navterms.htm

Many other obscure Navy terms and expressions also..
I hope this helps Mike...

-R

(edited to add link)

[The Plainsman]

I concur with robear's definition - to "make up" (falsify sounds so dastardly) answers; to hastily fill out forms or information.

If you "gundecked" a report, you just kinda made stuff up as you went, without much regard for the facts (truth) - just get the report done and submitted. ;)

[ambidextrous1]

A most superior post, Robear!
:cool:

[XLMiguel]

Thanks, & like, Wow! instant gratifacation.

Ssounds pretty consistent with the conversation, in that it was making it 'fit' with the perceived/desired version of the situation.

[rms/pa]

sounds good to me folks, but the version i remeber,

one of the tasks on a wooden ship was to "pick oakum"
an absorbent materiel waterproofing between the planks. you would pick out the old(several layers) and pound in the new.
to fake the job ,you would pick out the top layer and put in a new top layer.

rms/pa

[BigG]

Would us civilians be Clintoning if we did the same as a sailor gundecking? :neener:

[280PLUS]

:D

[themic]

never forget dictionary.com
definitions from a couple of dictionaries:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=gun%20deck

[The Plainsman]

280PLUS - do you know what "scuttlebutt" is and where the expression originated? Another old "nautical" term. ;)

[BigG]

I guess I'd like to know why the rear of the ship is called the poop. :eek:

[wingnutx]

The rear of a ship is the fantail, or the stern.

Gundecking is cheating, usually on quals or maintenance.

[Chuck Dye]

Once you have gundecked your report, be sure to get it Colonel Murphied. :D

[Mannlicher]

to me, the term 'gundecking' has always meant A: falsifyng documents or records, which in turn comes from B: the telling of tall tales and stories.

The hands slept on the gundeck on the old sailing men o war, and thats where they would spin their tales after a long shift.

[4v50 Gary]

Isn't "scuttlebutt" gossip? It came from the habit of gobs exchanging information besides the water fountain ("bubbler" to the English) that was found aboard ships.

[TexasVet]

I guess I'd like to know why the rear of the ship is called the poop.
The Poop was a raised deck at the rear of a ship in sailing days. The "head" where you took a "poop" was at the bow.:D

[Hkmp5sd]

Don't forget the ever popular skylarking. It was a very popular activity back when we were gundecking the logs. :)

[UnknownSailor]

Alternate for "gundeck": pencilwhip

[Hkmp5sd]

And to properly pencilwhip your logs, you needed a turbo charged, water cooled pen with black ink stamped "U.S. Government." We also used the term "radioing" the logs.

[4v50 Gary]

Speaking of poop, the first naval vessel to have a flush toilet was on the HMS Warrior, England's first ironclad ship. However, I never heard back from them whether the crew had similiar accommodations. The first ship to have flush toilets exclusively was the USS Monitor. The first application I found of the periscope for aiming was aboard ironclads ships in the War of the Rebellion (Sibil War). The periscope was used to adjust the aim (the sailors couldn't look out of the hatch lest a Confederate put a minie ball into it).

[280PLUS]

scuttle butt refered to the drinking fountain, or scuttle button (as it was a button that let water into the ship and had the potential for scuttling it) and hence the resulting gossip or rumors that were flying around it at any given time.

so if you asked someone "what's the scuttlebutt?" you were asking what the story or recent info was on any given subject

now, for our next nautical term and doing our best to keep it gun related :evil:

if i said, "i just gave that old ammo the float test, chief."

what have i done?

:D

then, seeings how we're on the subject...

anyone know what a "sea muffin" is

how about a "sea bat"?

:rolleyes: :p

and if you were skylarking (which was a punishable offense in boot camp) there must have been some diddy bopping going on...and maybe even some cokin' and jokin' as well...

:neener:

[Hkmp5sd]

And of course, "gedunk".

And "bug juice" aka coolade.

[280PLUS]

you might have some gedunk while your cokin' and jokin'

but remember, no gedunk in the "B" drawer...

LMAO...

:D

[TexasVet]

what have i done?

You dropped it off the fantail to see if it would float. Funny, NOTHING I ever saw 'float tested' ever passed!:D Even the brand new in the case $1000 a pop box of 12 new magnetrons that got "tested" by mistake once before an inspection. NOT by me, thank God!
And I would hazard a guess that you then 'gundecked' the Ammo Expended Log to conform with the new inventory numbers?

[Moparmike]

"Gundecking: Something Moparmike did on most written reports done in the past for academic reasons:scrutiny:, and that no instructor has ever cought because he was so damned good at it...:D" I wasnt called on it because I made it flow and be plausible, while making the instructor happy. I was also told by friends that I had a carreer in speech writing and politicks.:rolleyes: (brag, brag:rolleyes: )

well, it wasnt all gundecking, it was a sprinkling of truth, facts, and scuttlebutt (ok, i threw that in for fun:D):neener:

[MarkDido]

The "proper" way to gundeck, say something like a read an initial board it to have a blue pen, a black pen, a felt-tip and a pencil handy. Make all your required initials changing the writing implement frequently.

Looks fishy if ALL the entries are exactly the same.

Not that I have any first hand experience at this ;)

MarkDido
USN RET

[280PLUS]

i recall a sea story that involved gundecked logs and the inspectors commenting how the gundeckers weren't even clever enought to use different types of pens to make it look more plausible.

then there was the time the ALMOST new chief HT "float tested" the spare dual oil strainer

(about 200 lbs of brass, we could get the WHOLE SHIP painted for about 50 lbs of brass in hong kong)

it had been sitting in the HT shop forever, and i mean forever

it didn't float either... :D

wouldn't you know not 2 days later the hole snipes came down looking for it and the the poor chief to be was in the hot seat for sure, figuring he just cost himself that promotion

but he was a good guy so he slid right outta that one

he was a great chief too! one of the best, too bad they weren't ALL like him...

HTC Dowe, i remembered his name after a little while, none better, i swear

:D

a site for sll you skylarkers and gundeckers:

www.usscochrane.com/ddg14/forum/default.asp

put up for uss buchanan ddg 14 by my friend dick z who would absolutely LOVE to see a few guys register and tell a feww stories,

although it is listed as a "snipes" forum there are places for almost any topic you want to post on, look around

there are also a lot of good stories already posted, some about the nam and some about carrier pilots.

they are by different authors but were collected by dick and all posted to the site by him, so it appears hes the only one contributing, he's not

if you open them you'll find the real author there

the austrailian virtual navy link is pretty cool too

join 280 down in an engineroom similar to the one he sweated his buttissimo off in for four years

at this point i dont think anyone cares what ship you were on or what job you did, if you got a good one to tell, go ahead and post it somewhere youd be helping the morale of an old shipmate if nothing else

i probably wouldn't tell too many stories about gundecking and the like, the lifers get all fired up when you do...

:evil:

good old gettin' one over on the navy stories are probably ok but if it was illegal, i'd probably keep it to myself, use disgression i'd say...

i got a couple brewing in my head as we speak so i may show up there myself sometime soon

it is hosted by the kind people of the uss cochrane association to whom we are grateful

if anyone is interested in a copy of book that dick published, i have a couple free ones he sent me for some services i had provided

its a compilation of stories by 1965 graduates of the US naval academy, the first class to graduate into the vietnam war

very good stuff by naval and marine officers, some now very big wigs, mostly retired, of course

free to the first 2 takers, i'll even pay the shipping

how 'bout THAT!

:D

[XLMiguel]

Well, thank you all, I clearly got my nickle's worth on this one.

As I said, I'se just a lowly leg, a 74E20 "chair-born" ranger, but I've been sailing for 40+ years (currently a CAL 31), and it never ceases to amaze me about how much I really don't know about sea craft and water lore. I sail the Chesapeake, out of Solomons on the Patuxent R. Beyond maintenance records, I don't keep logs, so I guess I'll have little opportunity to experience the joys of 'gun-decking'.

I've always understood that sailors were such a profane lot because there's so many things to cuss at on a boat. Now I understand why they're also the best, um, "story-tellers":D

[280PLUS]

i've been known to get long winded,,,

:rolleyes:

[280PLUS]

can't even give his book away...and it's a good one too,,,

:uhoh:

sooo, you want to be an author, huh???

:what:

:D